(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins!

[BBM]

Hmm that's a fair point j00. I'll think about it a bit more but I find rapier's weapons vote here really bad. It just feels like rapier knows weapons is town but is trying to specifically disregard it to justify a case on other grounds

I think there's a spectrum of possibilities as to what happened with scum d1 but I think charlie leaving his vote on makaze and refa not even counter voting at the end implies at least some disorganization.

[RADicate]

@Makaze working on your ping rn as mentioned above so will be back soon with that answer rn the answer is close to "i'd begrudgingly consoloidate". 

@BBM (why do i have to type in caps to ping you) ur not alone on shinori btw i'd be willing to head there probably over >charlie, think i wrote earlier that they should be in the POE

[RADicate]

anyways back to EOD/charlie reading, sorry for crashing ln, ping me if you want specific stuff from me rn, there's not really a charlie/dusk CW rn otherwise i'd give my take on the other one

[Makaze]

If BBM's case is right, they would choose Rapier over Refa to save the most powerful role on the team and make Refa look good for championing that elim

Still feels unlikely though

[Makaze]

Scum team could be disorganized because only 1 of them who knew who the team is was around

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

1 hour ago, BBM said:

Boron, I don't have a problem with your d1 Makaze stuff as much as your d2 Makaze stuff. I think calling for someone you think is town to be vigged is really really bad (this applies to weapons too).

These kind of shots never actually go through, it's just to pressure the target into cooperating

[Bluedoom]

19 minutes ago, BBM said:

Hmm that's a fair point j00. I'll think about it a bit more but I find rapier's weapons vote here really bad. It just feels like rapier knows weapons is town but is trying to specifically disregard it to justify a case on other grounds

I think there's a spectrum of possibilities as to what happened with scum d1 but I think charlie leaving his vote on makaze and refa not even counter voting at the end implies at least some disorganization.

Well its also the fact that both sb and refa would've bussed rapier in the possibility that you're talking about when they could just take a hard crack at weapons 

 

Hm. 

[Bluedoom]

This is so weird because I agree with you that rapier's current weapons vote is bad lol

 

Why is this game so hard

[RADicate]

i think the odds charlie is actually scum with refa are kinda low?????????????? like. 

thinking about the makaze vote park from a scum pov kinda results in the following:

Reading thread (esp after the whole makaze comment of "it won't be possible to kill my slot today" or w/e tf was said) and the subsequent back off of what pressure was there I don't think the Makaze vote was every happening at that point of the night.

I think charlie was aware it wasn't happening. Correct me if I'm wrong and you guys think a timeline exists where it does happen but like.

Scum!charlie w/ refa gains absolutely nothing by voting makaze in that situation and then doing nothing about it for ego?

Like: bussing gains towncred, voting the other wagon does the obvious thing of helping refa live. 

maybe ego vote is more nai but i dont get how you guys are scumreading it

[Bluedoom]

Bussing gets your towncred along with 4-5 other townies who are already getting the towncred, but how

[Bluedoom]

*but you're down numbers and you just lost your kill joat that can bypass a bunch of town roles

 

So it isn't really that favourable to bus actually 

[Bluedoom]

I guess for me its like, why is Charlie doing whatever they did if they're town?

[RADicate]

1 minute ago, Bluedoom said:

I guess for me its like, why is Charlie doing whatever they did if they're town?

tbh this is probably fair too, im probably a bit jaded because i im hard tring dusk's tone today but i'm also aware like, that's not what i should be reading into when there's like 60 pages of content. it reads super genuine. 

that aside charlie did mention their SRs were:

makaze>refa>w/e tf the rest of the list was in a post in the back half of the day if memory serves. 

typically as town i'd be willing/wanting to consoliidate on my second largest SR as town

 

ajdfasd

[Shinori]

My thought process WRT Scum!Charlie is that they went makaze when both the other wagons were kind of starting to lose steam or not gaining as much traction.

Quote

Iris™ Votals: Day 1.8 (~3.5 hours left)

Rapier (3): BBM, Refa, Shinori
Refa (3): j00, BT., Makaze
Makaze (3): Elieson, Sunwoo, charlie
WeaponsofMassConstruction (2): Rapier, Prims
Bluedoom (1): Snike
Prims (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction
Not Voting (4): Bluedoom, BT., CT075, Percivale

These were the votals DIRECTLY following Charlie vote onto makaze, previously they were on me if I remember correctly.

At this point in time weapons/makaze are tied but makaze was gaining some traction amongst a few specific players.  If you look at this current timing of a vote it obviously could be voting for a counter wagon, but if charlie goes rapier its kind of weird because I'm heavy for rapier and charlie has stated kind of clashing thoughts and scum reading me, i don't remember their rapier read exactly off the top of my head.

After they made their makaze vote though, they only make 3 posts following, which 2 are basically attacking me and 1 is against makaze.  Maybe I'm biased because I see myself town and I read makaze town but I don't vibe with it.

As for why they didn't come back considering they said they were 'dropping off' in their last post, it's somewhat reasonable to believe they checked out and didn't come back during the next 3 hours and as the wagons consolidated to Refa/Weapons if they are scum, they don't wanna vote Refa because this was a HARD fought lynch if they are refa's buddy, but at the same time didn't want to appear here as they said they were already leaving and if they come back to vote Weapons after they already said they were effectively dropping out of the game and refa STILL flips, they look AWFUL.

I do want to believe there is likely few bussers if ANY on Refa because of how HARD the vote was for Refa to be lynched.  It was s situation that ended 9-7 and literally any one vote swap could have potentially changed the vote to weapons and so many people could have easily had a reason to do so.

[RADicate]

i wish my reading gave me anything on woopons beyond "they were the primary counterwagon" but i can barely remember their existance ITT somehow and i've read or skimmed most of d1 atp

[Shinori]

Unless weapons is also scum in which case bussing goes either way because they both flip scum in that situation.

[Bluedoom]

1 minute ago, RADicate said:

i wish my reading gave me anything on woopons beyond "they were the primary counterwagon" but i can barely remember their existance ITT somehow and i've read or skimmed most of d1 atp

right now my read on woopons is "town because cam flipped scum, and he doesn't flip between s/s wagons if all he wants is towncred"

[Makaze]

3 minutes ago, RADicate said:

tbh this is probably fair too, im probably a bit jaded because i im hard tring dusk's tone today but i'm also aware like, that's not what i should be reading into when there's like 60 pages of content. it reads super genuine. 

that aside charlie did mention their SRs were:

makaze>refa>w/e tf the rest of the list was in a post in the back half of the day if memory serves. 

typically as town i'd be willing/wanting to consoliidate on my second largest SR as town

 

ajdfasd

What sticks out as the reason that he should not be limmed?

[Shinori]

But like thread state at the EoD was:

Refa Rapier and Weapons as wagons.  All fairly close, to the point that each one of them was a leading wagon at some point in time.  It started initially with rapier gaining some steam > Both refa and weapons and then transitioned away as Refa gained more steam.  As soon as Refa became #1, more people started swapping to weapons and it really became neck and neck between refa and weapons until the end.

I think I remember that mostly correct.

[RADicate]

Just now, Shinori said:

My thought process WRT Scum!Charlie is that they went makaze when both the other wagons were kind of starting to lose steam or not gaining as much traction.

These were the votals DIRECTLY following Charlie vote onto makaze, previously they were on me if I remember correctly.

At this point in time weapons/makaze are tied but makaze was gaining some traction amongst a few specific players.  If you look at this current timing of a vote it obviously could be voting for a counter wagon, but if charlie goes rapier its kind of weird because I'm heavy for rapier and charlie has stated kind of clashing thoughts and scum reading me, i don't remember their rapier read exactly off the top of my head.

After they made their makaze vote though, they only make 3 posts following, which 2 are basically attacking me and 1 is against makaze.  Maybe I'm biased because I see myself town and I read makaze town but I don't vibe with it.

As for why they didn't come back considering they said they were 'dropping off' in their last post, it's somewhat reasonable to believe they checked out and didn't come back during the next 3 hours and as the wagons consolidated to Refa/Weapons if they are scum, they don't wanna vote Refa because this was a HARD fought lynch if they are refa's buddy, but at the same time didn't want to appear here as they said they were already leaving and if they come back to vote Weapons after they already said they were effectively dropping out of the game and refa STILL flips, they look AWFUL.

I do want to believe there is likely few bussers if ANY on Refa because of how HARD the vote was for Refa to be lynched.  It was s situation that ended 9-7 and literally any one vote swap could have potentially changed the vote to weapons and so many people could have easily had a reason to do so.

i still think "makaze is going home" is probably a disingenious read of the gamestate at that time regardless of votals. esp for reasons previously stated. makaze wagon definitely lost steam by that point in the night (lost steam at the exact point i mentioned earlier on makaze's post) and was already losing votes (makaze peaked at 4 or 5 votes iirc and charlie wasnt among them)


i also read makaze town (tho i had the benefit of knowing refa scum as i read through d1) and i still dont really fw the casing stated here.

lynch was hard fought but that doesn't neccessarily mean there were no bussers. few bussers sure because JOAT is a strong role but last minute flips like that are dangerous for the flipper asw and there's def some cost/benefit analysis to be done for any scum who wants to swing that kind of wagon




 

[RADicate]

3 minutes ago, Makaze said:

What sticks out as the reason that he should not be limmed?

3 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Unless weapons is also scum in which case bussing goes either way because they both flip scum in that situation.

im w/e on weapons and this wagonomics discussion is useless if they are but i dont really wanna think abt this

HELP I FAILED QUOTING I'LL GET BACK TO YOU MAKAZE ;-; stupid website imo

[Bluedoom]

15 minutes ago, RADicate said:

tbh this is probably fair too, im probably a bit jaded because i im hard tring dusk's tone today but i'm also aware like, that's not what i should be reading into when there's like 60 pages of content. it reads super genuine. 

that aside charlie did mention their SRs were:

makaze>refa>w/e tf the rest of the list was in a post in the back half of the day if memory serves. 

typically as town i'd be willing/wanting to consoliidate on my second largest SR as town

 

ajdfasd

yeah, its also like,  they said that they weren't sure about Makaze lynch being what they want at dl end,  they had refa as the second sr, so my expectation would be that they run the logic in their head and present the reason why they're picking one over the other instead of stating that they were unsure and then making the vote without reason, like that post doesn't really explain to me why makaze has to be the vote over refa.

[Makaze]

bluedoom is seeming less likely to be mafia as the game goes on

[RADicate]

6 minutes ago, Makaze said:

What sticks out as the reason that he should not be limmed?

It was some weird shiz where the quotes like combined and got stuck together and it didn't let me type between them but the post came out looking fine???? Idk SF forums man. I'm a smogoner at heart.

Anyways, if I'm being honest my notes on the charlie slot are roughly liking the logic on a few of their posts, but good reasoning isn't neccessarily AI. I still don't think the vote drop on you and dip eod was that scummy if at all scummy (esp if we're implying woopons/refa aren't partners in this discussion which the implications of that I don't feel like going down rn). 

I just don't see scum intent behind the vote park? 

Already mentioned my tonal/soul read of tommy since he came in, though @Duskfall98 lmk when you're around I act wanna talk to you. Specifically break down that reads list you dropped a little more, preferably a quick setence or two next to each of the players you feel strongly about. It'll make my life easier.

I'm like, w/e on the slot at large. I came out of d1 read/skim feeling like a lot of the heat isn't super justifiable and people are harping on something I consider NAI at worst which is like, ?????????. Idk. If that's the primary baseline for the wagon I just don't like it though. 
 

[RADicate]

4 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

yeah, its also like,  they said that they weren't sure about Makaze lynch being what they want at dl end,  they had refa as the second sr, so my expectation would be that they run the logic in their head and present the reason why they're picking one over the other instead of stating that they were unsure and then making the vote without reason, like that post doesn't really explain to me why makaze has to be the vote over refa.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm gdi marth i hate that you're actually making points rn.

only real counterarguement is that "if they've stated they're skipping out of thread for the night it makes sense that they'd just say what they need to say then skip out" but that's a weak countepoint at best

help chat i'm losing the 1v1