torifae Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hector Eliwood Lyn Ephraim Eirika Ike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) Lyn has bows, and bows are win. Edited January 16, 2009 by Reinfleche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hector has always been my favorite in fighting. Axe nut, here! Lyn has always been my favorite characterwise. Good looking and friendly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Lyn has bows, and bows are win. So does Alm, and his bows are better than Lyn's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Well, since nobody has done it yet, because they're too lazy, I've decided to have Celice and Ike face each other in deathmatch, with all their stats rounded to how strong Ike would be in FE4, and how strong a Celice with 59 level ups would be in FE10 (he doesn't get any stat increases from convos though, cuz that's not fair). In FE4, Ike will have Pursuit, and in FE10, Celice will be doubled by Ike if he has 4 or more less speed than him. Ike will have no critical hitting skills from anything but his weapon when he is in FE4, and in FE10, Celices critical hitting will depend on his level 60 stats. Since there is no fair way to compensate for their stat caps, Celice having shitty ones and Ike having great ones, there will be no caps. In FE4, both Ike and Celice will be assumed to have 100 kills on their swords (giving them both 50% critical hitting chance). All special abilities are taken off of the weapons, so Celice doesn't have prayer, and Ike doesn't have long range, so here goes... So, here's Celices average stats at level 30, with Tyrfing... HP: 74 Power: 55 Accuracy: 144% Speed: 29 Defense: 22 Critical: 50% Avoid: 77% And here's Ike, with Ragnell... HP: 43 Power: 41 Accuracy: 134% Speed: 22 Defense: 25 Critical: 50% Avoid: 57% NOTE: I had to lower all of Ikes stats by 1 point, because in FE10, he is level 20/11, the equivalent of level 31, and unfortunately, FE4 only allows a maximum of level 30. I don't even need to look at these stats just to see that Celice is gonna kick Ike around like no tomorrow in his world. But, just for shits and giggles, lets compare. Celice: 74 HP Vs. Ike: 43 HP Attack: 30(2x) Attack: 19 Accuracy: 87% Accuracy: 57% Critical: 50% Critical: 50% Yeah...wow....it's even worse than I thought. But what about Ikes world? Lets just see! Here are Celices stats, at Level 60, with Tyrfing... HP: 116 Power: 71 Accuracy: 180% Speed: 39 Defense: 35 Critical: 3% Avoid: 110% HP: 66 Power: 58 Accuracy: 188% Speed: 34 Defense: 41 Critical: 0% Avoid: 90% I...am honestly surprised at how onesided this is. Going in, I didn't think Celice was going to be anywhere near as godly as he is here. I thought it was going to be Ike who had the advantage...guess I was wrong. Celice 116 HP vs. Ike 66 HP Attack: 30(2x) Attack: 23 Accuracy: 90% Accuracy:78% Critical: 18% Critical: 0% ....WELL, GAME OVER, CELICE WINS!!! Edited January 17, 2009 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalis Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Celice gets Awareness as well by default so no critical/special attacks from Ike either, and Tyrfing adds Prayer if he ever goes down in Hp. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Um, no, actually, in my comparison, I didn't count any of their skills besides Pursuit. If Ike doesn't have Aether in his own game, than Celice isn't having Nihil either. Not that it matters, Celice still owned Ikes ass (of course, I wasn't counting stat caps for either of them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Was that dual between Celice and Ike supposed to prove something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Yes, there were a bunch of people having a shitstorm over whether or not Celice was stronger than FE10, and since nobody seemed to be willing to actually MAKE the comparison, and I got so irritated by the fact that they were just throwing insults at each other without doing a damn thing, that I made one myself just to settle the issue (it did kind of settle in page 5, but this way, it can't flare up again). Oh yeah, and it made me slightly curious about the issue myself to. Edited January 17, 2009 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erk Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I vote Hector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalis Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 This is a vote for your favorite lord though. Why isn't Celice having Awareness? He was born with it, there's no way to take it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Well, if Celice gets Nihil, then Ike gets Aether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I voted Sigurd. Easy to train unlike just about every other lord I used. And why is Eirika spelled Erika? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yes, there were a bunch of people having a shitstorm over whether or not Celice was stronger than FE10, and since nobody seemed to be willing to actually MAKE the comparison, and I got so irritated by the fact that they were just throwing insults at each other without doing a damn thing, that I made one myself just to settle the issue (it did kind of settle in page 5, but this way, it can't flare up again). Oh yeah, and it made me slightly curious about the issue myself to. That was Sigurd and Ike. Well, if Celice gets Nihil, then Ike gets Aether. Which would cancel out Aether anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalis Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Poor Alm, I should have voted for him instead. He's awesome with his early on Thunder Sword and later on uses melee-to-4range bows. And he's the first green haired lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanibomb Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Lyn is the best lord. Alm comes second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 That was Sigurd and Ike. Oh really? Which would cancel out Aether anyway. Huh...guess Ikes screwed then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroMystic Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 A lot of people don't like Eliwood hm? :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Well, since I was, apparently, comparing Celice to Ike when I should've been comparing Sigurd to Ike, I now present...Sigurd vs. Ike! Now hopefully this won't be as one sided as the last one, but we will see! Anyways, same rules as last time, so here are Sigurds level 30 stats... HP: 62 Power: 56 Accuracy: 146% Speed: 29 Defense: 19 Critical: 50% Avoid: 75% And here's Ike again... HP: 43 Power: 41 Accuracy: 134% Speed: 22 Defense: 25 Critical: 50% Avoid: 57% Funny thing is, Sigurds power is actually slightly higher than Celices (which I'm going to chalk up to his excellent base stats). But, unfortunately for Ike, Sigurd is still ripping his asshole inside out, so too bad! Now, since I'm allowing special skills (that the characters posess without the aid of their weapons), you might be asking "but what about Ikes Aether?". Well, here, he doesn't have it, because in order for him to have it, he must be promoted, and he can't be promoted at only Level 20/11. Anyways, now here's their level 60 stats... HP: 95 Power: 71 Accuracy: 176% Speed: 38 Defense: 29 Critical: 2% Avoid: 103% And here's Ike! HP: 66 Power: 58 Accuracy: 188% Speed: 34 Defense: 41 Critical: 0% Avoid: 90% Sigurd 95 HP vs. Ike 66 HP Attack: 30(2x) Attack: 29 Accuracy: 86% Accuracy: 85% Critical: 2% Critical: 0% Well...for all you people supporting Ike...guess what? Sigurd still won! Maybe if Ikes speed was a bit higher, or Sigurds a bit lower, then well....Sigurd still would've won, but it would've been MUCH closer! So, game over, Sigurd wins!! Edited January 17, 2009 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Well...for all you people supporting Ike...guess what? Sigurd still won! Maybe if Ikes speed was a bit higher, or Sigurds a bit lower, then well....Sigurd still would've won, but it would've been MUCH closer! So, game over, Sigurd wins!! I fail to see how this proves anything. Comparing stats cross-game is completely inaccurate. FE4 =/= FE10. I mean, seriously? What about the part where Sigurd uses 1 RN and Ike uses 2? Did you take that into account? Or did into account that lowering Ike by one level wouldn't lower every stat because it's extremely rare to get all 8 stats on a level up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I fail to see how this proves anything. Comparing stats cross-game is completely inaccurate. Yes, and that's exactly why I did one battle for both of them at level 30, and one battle for them at level 60. Because in FE4, level caps at 30, while for FE10, level caps are 60. Therefore, I took Sigurds growths and multiplied them for his stat averages at level 60 to figure out how strong he would've been if he had the same base stats, level, and growth rates that he had in FE4. I mean, seriously? What about the part where Sigurd uses 1 RN and Ike uses 2? Did you take that into account? No, I guess I didn't. New rule then, in the level 30 battle, they both use only 1 RN, but in the level 60 battle, they both use 2 RN. Happy? Or did into account that lowering Ike by one level wouldn't lower every stat because it's extremely rare to get all 8 stats on a level up? ...Dude, I'm going off averages, which are pretty much the closest thing to a reliable guide for what kind of stats the two would have at what level that I can find. And according to averages, all of Ikes stats would decrease by 1 if his level was reduced to 20/10, the equivalent of Level 30 in FE4. Basically, the whole point of this was to compare how strong Sigurd and Ike against each other using both FE4 and FE10 mechanics in two seperate duels. And Sigurd won both duels, so yes, I think that proves something. If you have any suggestions though, I'd love to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 ...Dude, I'm going off averages, which are pretty much the closest thing to a reliable guide for what kind of stats the two would have at what level that I can find. And according to averages, all of Ikes stats would decrease by 1 if his level was reduced to 20/10, the equivalent of Level 30 in FE4. How so? If, at base level, all of Ike's stats are exact, going down would mean that his lowest growths would stay the same because you would have to round up. Any growth 50% or less would stay the same. Take his speed for example. If, at level 20/11, he has 22 speed, at 20/10 he'd have 21.65 speed, which rounds to 22. For something like this, you'd need to do that rounding. Basically, the whole point of this was to compare how strong Sigurd and Ike against each other using both FE4 and FE10 mechanics in two seperate duels. And Sigurd won both duels, so yes, I think that proves something. Please do explain what that proves. I apologize if I seem hostile. I just hate how people always do comparisons like this (pitting two playable units in a deathmatch) and pretending it's proof that unit A > unit B. The problem is, Ike and Sigurd will never actually fight, so determining "who would win" doesn't "prove" anything. I mean, did you take into account the fact that Ike has earth affinity and so he can get +45 avoid? Or maybe he supported Soren and has +30 avoid, +2 attack, and +10 crit. Or the fact that Ike can't possibly go down one level and Sigurd can't possibly get to level 60. Unfair advantage for Ike? Well, he's in a different game, and his game's mechanics are a lot different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 How so? If, at base level, all of Ike's stats are exact, going down would mean that his lowest growths would stay the same because you would have to round up. Any growth 50% or less would stay the same. Take his speed for example. If, at level 20/11, he has 22 speed, at 20/10 he'd have 21.65 speed, which rounds to 22. For something like this, you'd need to do that rounding.Please do explain what that proves. I apologize if I seem hostile. I just hate how people always do comparisons like this (pitting two playable units in a deathmatch) and pretending it's proof that unit A > unit B. The problem is, Ike and Sigurd will never actually fight, so determining "who would win" doesn't "prove" anything. I mean, did you take into account the fact that Ike has earth affinity and so he can get +45 avoid? Or maybe he supported Soren and has +30 avoid, +2 attack, and +10 crit. Or the fact that Ike can't possibly go down one level and Sigurd can't possibly get to level 60. Unfair advantage for Ike? Well, he's in a different game, and his game's mechanics are a lot different. I completely agree with what you said. If you want to compare Sigurd/Celice with Ike, then you'll have to directly decide on which one is more useful in their games. You can't mathematically calculate that so it won't be accurate. In the end, it'll all come down to opinion and lets just leave it at that. It is absolutely pointless to try comparing two characters like that when they're both from two different games with different game mechanics. Also, being a strategy game, different players have different playstyles. e.g. Tiltyu may be bottom tier but I actually think that she's the best first gen character when trained. Even better than Levin (without Holsety). I've been called crazy for that by several people. What I'm trying to say is... well, it's pretty much what Red Fox said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Come to think about it, I liked Alm, too. I already voted for Hector, but Bows were actually swell in Gaiden! (if inaccurate, but who cares about that, Alm has nice Skill) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) OMG. All the units in FE1 must suck balls if they can barely scratch Ike, if at all!!11!11!1Shift+1 \/ Your sarcasm detector is broken. Edited January 17, 2009 by Delmud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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