Let's rewrite Mystery of the Emblem

[Jotari]

Mystery of the Emblem is my least favourite game in the series. And one of the principle reasons for that is that I think it has the worst story. Yes, worse than Awakening or Fates or whatever story you dislike the most (okay, I like, TMS has the worst story but its gameplay is good enough to compensate whereas Old Mystery’s isn’t). The reason I dislike it the most is pretty straight forward. It artificially creates conflict by bringing back every villain of note from the previous game (except poor Jiol), uses mind control to further its plot and the pacing of the story is structured so that the middle third of it is nothing but an exposition lore dump. But I actually like the lore this game makes for Archanea and I want to keep that, just not structured like you’re turning Binding Blade’s endgame into your entire story. With that in mind, these are the major changes I want to make.

*No villains are resurrected

*No mind control to make good people do bad things

*A longer time skip to facilitate more natural conflict and make Camus timeline make more sense (if he’s to be in the game at all, he doesn’t have to be)

And that’s the reason I’ve never attempted a rewrite of this story before, because, structurally, that’s kind of everything this story has to offer. It feels like rewriting it would involve throwing out everything and just making a new sequel for Marth. But, there are a few things Mystery did which were original and are probably worth keeping.

*Grust and Macedon being in utter shambles after the last game and both having simultaneous civil wars. In the game we got Hardin is responsible for this, but I think it could easily happen naturally  given how much they dedicated their nations’ resources to continent wide half decade long war which they lost.

*Lang in general as an antagonist is fun

*Merric’s frenemy Arlen paralleling Miloah and Gharnef

*Exploring the northern wilderness of the map

*Reuniting the Shield of Seals with its orbs and giving the Fire Emblem some actual importance

*Hardin, a former friend of Marth’s turned enemy due to his unhappy marriage to Nyna

*Gra being inherited by Sheema, someone who feels pressured to sustain her nation’s hatred of Altea but also doesn’t actually want to fight

So, we have a scenario where the first third of the plot is fine, the middle act has good ideas executed awfully and the finale is just a rehash of the first game in the worst ways. I think the biggest challenge would be justifying Hardin’s actions without mind control. Because, while mind control sucks as a plot point, it’s still used because it’s convenient. Hardin doing even half of what he does by his own will turns him into a complete asshole. On one hand we’re fortunate that Hardin basically had no characterization in Book 1, but from what little we do know about him he is meant to be a decently good guy and Marth fighting him is meant to tragic and not a fight against dick you were only allied with out of convenience. Certainly, it could be done to make someone have a natural turn like that, but it would require way more introspection and focus than Fire Emblem can reasonably give an NPC. So his actions need to be changed somewhat. He still needs to come into conflict with Marth without it being driven purely out of spite, jealousy and general base evilness. Him not being responsible for the Macedon and Grust civil wars would help somewhat with this, and honestly Altea being conquered again definitely leans heavily on the Shadow Dragon rehash. But if all that is removed, then why are Hardin and Marth even fighting? Hardin needs to have more solid goals and motivations beyond “I’m sad and evil”. He needs to think that fighting Marth will somehow grant him Nyna’s affection or that he can somehow undo the past.

So, is it even possible to write a better story using this criteria? Well, that what I want to hear from you. What are your ideas for rewriting Mystery of the Emblem while retaining its original ideas and abandoning the mind control and villain resurrection that hold the entire thing up? The best idea I can think of is to turn it into a Dragon Ball plot. Someone learns of the true origin of the Fire Emblem and people come to believe a wish can be granted by reuniting the orbs because Ardah apparently used it to wish for his kingdom. Nyna wants to use it to bring back Camus and Hardin either wants to use the wish to assist Nyna or use it to make him fall in love with her. Marth wants to stop them either because he has a wish of his own (bring back his parents?) or, more likely, because Wendell told him the orbs need to be kept reunited or the world will slowly be destroyed (Earth Dragon apocalypse can still happen without Medeus). Hardin and Nyna don’t want to actively fight Marth, but are serious enough about their own goals and are dubious about Wendell’s warnings since Gotoh is nowhere to be seen. Hardin, Marth and, let’s say Arlen with more screen time as a villain, race north into the wilderness to find the legendary ice dragon temple where the supposed rite can be carried out, all the way battling with each other to seize the other orbs/Fire Emblem itself and also fighting the native tribesmen who get some actual characterization (not sure how Sheema can be involved with that though since she actively doesn’t want to fight). In the end they learn that there is no rite at all and Ardah was a thief who pawned the gems to fund his imperialist agenda. Is that a perfect substitute? No, it’s still a bit contrived, but it’s the best I can come up with now. Let’s hear your ideas.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

I always found mind control a bad description for what's happening with Hardin. Gharnef isn't using him as a meat puppet or implementing thoughts that were never there. instead corruption seems the better description. Rather than implement new ideas into Hardin the Dark Sphere instead seems to draw on feelings that were already there. While certainly less responsible for his actions then a dirtbag like Michalis who does everything completely by his own free will, it does seem Hardin's personality had room for what he'd eventually become. 

So in that sense I think Hardin could be fixed more easily. Just stress better that its corruption instead of possession, or cut out the Dark Sphere entirely and have Hardin's unhappiness as emperor and his failed marriage be enough to corrupt him.

[Jotari]

45 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I always found mind control a bad description for what's happening with Hardin. Gharnef isn't using him as a meat puppet or implementing thoughts that were never there. instead corruption seems the better description. Rather than implement new ideas into Hardin the Dark Sphere instead seems to draw on feelings that were already there. While certainly less responsible for his actions then a dirtbag like Michalis who does everything completely by his own free will, it does seem Hardin's personality had room for what he'd eventually become. 

So in that sense I think Hardin could be fixed more easily. Just stress better that its corruption instead of possession, or cut out the Dark Sphere entirely and have Hardin's unhappiness as emperor and his failed marriage be enough to corrupt him.

The think about that take is that it's kind of not backed up by his actions. It's certainly what the game wants us to believe, but the ultimate result is that he ens up giving Nyna to Gharnef to be sacrificed, which completely flies in the face of him having any love for her at all. If anything his feelings for her should be corrupted as well and he should be overprotective of her to the extreme, not letting even Gharnef anywhere near her. And hey, maybe he was, off screen, but from what we do on screen he seems to just be completely Gharnef's pawn.

[ping]

I don't mind the Dark Sphere being there as a device to force Hardin's sudden change, as long as the narration remains clear that it amplifies existing insecurities and resentments instead of just "making Hardin evil".

Who I think can be entirely cut out of the story is Gharnef. I mean, what purpose does he really serve? He brings Hardin in contact with the Dark Sphere, which honestly could've just happened by accident without losing any narrative impact, and then he rehashes his role from FE1 by stealing the Falchion. Like, Hardin could've just done that when occupying Altea.

And if Kaga had to insist on Medeus making a return (we need a reason for all the clerics being kidnapped, of course) - again, does Gharnef need to be there to enable that? Maybe Hardin himself found out about a ritual to revive a dragon by sacrificing four royal clerics. Maybe Arlen is somehow involved, although that might make him a tad too evil to be as easily redeemed as he is.

--

Overall, I'm not convinced that Anri's Path needed to be there, either. The flimsy pretext of Gotoh re-testing Marth after all of FE had already taken place aside - if I recall, story progression during that stretch is basically zero, it's just Xane expositioning at Marth, which I don't think requires them to trek through the wilderness while that happens. And assuming that a hypothetical rewrite would be of a similar length as the original, I think the time spent on walking through deserts and lava caves could much better be used fleshing out the human conflicts. Give yourself some time to build up the coup in Macedon a bit, maybe even with some chapters with Minerva as the lord. Allow us to spend a bit more time in Gra.

[Jotari]

16 minutes ago, ping said:

Overall, I'm not convinced that Anri's Path needed to be there, either. The flimsy pretext of Gotoh re-testing Marth after all of FE had already taken place aside - if I recall, story progression during that stretch is basically zero, it's just Xane expositioning at Marth, which I don't think requires them to trek through the wilderness while that happens. And assuming that a hypothetical rewrite would be of a similar length as the original, I think the time spent on walking through deserts and lava caves could much better be used fleshing out the human conflicts. Give yourself some time to build up the coup in Macedon a bit, maybe even with some chapters with Minerva as the lord. Allow us to spend a bit more time in Gra.

The thing about Anri's Way is that I like that there's a wilderness to the north of Archanea, given it the vibe of an untamed continent and a group of relatively new societies compared to a lot of fantasy worlds. So rather than cut it completely, I'd prefer to move plot up there and have other factions for Marth to come into conflict with. Otherwise we're just back in Archanea, going to places we've already been to and resisting the urge to rehash maps already used in Book 1. That's why I describe the middle part of the game having good ideas executed awfully.

Edited August 18 by Jotari

[ping]

30 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The thing about Anri's Way is that I like that there's a wilderness to the north of Archanea, given it the vibe of an untamed continent and a group of relatively new societies compared to a lot of fantasy worlds. So rather than cut it completely, I'd prefer to move plot up there and have other factions for Marth to come into conflict with. Otherwise we're just back in Archanea, going to places we've already been to and resisting the urge to rehash maps already used in Book 1. That's why I describe the middle part of the game having good ideas executed awfully.

To be honest, as presented, I find the wilderness rather formulaic. Here's the Desert Map, here's the Lava Map, here's the Ice Map. Now we just need a Jungle Map and an Underwater Map and we have a Super Marthio game. There's no real purpose to it; it feels much more like Marth is ticking off items on the big Standard Videogame Climates list.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, ping said:

To be honest, as presented, I find the wilderness rather formulaic. Here's the Desert Map, here's the Lava Map, here's the Ice Map. Now we just need a Jungle Map and an Underwater Map and we have a Super Marthio game. There's no real purpose to it; it feels much more like Marth is ticking off items on the big Standard Videogame Climates list.

A fair comment, and precisely why, even without a total rewrite, I'd like to see the tribal population there get some faces to represent them and not exist solely to be exp bags provoking combat.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

So I have two prospective plot ideas, although they're basically the same.

Although he has come to rule a reborn Holy Kingdom of Archanea, Emperor Hardin is... unfulfilled. His bride is miserable, his friends have become subjects, and he feels his talents wasted. He thinks back to his "glory days" with Marth - days of rescuing lands and peoples from barbarism. And perhaps, if he conquers the world, he will conquer Nyna's heart as well?

1. Hardin turns his gaze southward, and sees a continent in disarray. Gra, Grust, Macedon, Dolhr (wait, does Dolhr still exist? And either way, who's ruling it?)... all outside the shadow of Medeus, but facing their own struggles. Civil war, strife, famine... it's time for a strong hand to return them to order, as part of the new Archanean Empire. Surely, his old pal Marth will help him in this mission of subjug- I mean, liberation. And who would think to resist Emperor Hardin, benevolent ruler of the world?

2. Hardin turns his gaze northward, to the untamed wilds: those lands known as "Anri's Way". These lands know no law, and brutality reigns. Yet, they contain valuable resources - which will bring Archanea into a second golden age! Surely, if he imposes order and stability onto the local populace, they'll be more than willing to "share" their bounty. And Prince Marth can help him achieve this noble goal!

So the first one basically keeps the setup of FE3 Book 2 as it exists, minus "comically evil Hardin". While the second is sort of the "Western Isles subplot", expanded into the game's main thesis. Darksphere, I can take it or leave it - but as others have said, let it amplify Hardin's latent ambitions and frustrations, rather than being a "berserk ball". Hardin can be the final boss I guess... or...

3. In desperation, Hardin wishes to bring back an ally from the past. Who better than Archanea's legendary founder, Adrah? He convinces a reluctant Nyna to wield the Aum staff, and bring Adrah back in his kingdom's moment of need. Except... Adrah turns out to be... kind of a dick. He knows a sinking ship when he sees one. He takes Mercurius and the Darksphere, peaces out, and leaves with a battalion to go conquer Altea Castle while Marth is away. The game's conclusion pits Marth against the "Thief-King" of Yore, in one more chance to reclaim his homeland.

In this model, Archanea never conquers Altea, as Hardin's forces are dedicated elsewhere. So I'm not suggesting two Altea visits in one game, to be clear.

9 hours ago, ping said:

Underwater Map

Finally, the series will have Merfolk!

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

So I have two prospective plot ideas, although they're basically the same.

Although he has come to rule a reborn Holy Kingdom of Archanea, Emperor Hardin is... unfulfilled. His bride is miserable, his friends have become subjects, and he feels his talents wasted. He thinks back to his "glory days" with Marth - days of rescuing lands and peoples from barbarism. And perhaps, if he conquers the world, he will conquer Nyna's heart as well?

1. Hardin turns his gaze southward, and sees a continent in disarray. Gra, Grust, Macedon, Dolhr (wait, does Dolhr still exist? And either way, who's ruling it?)... all outside the shadow of Medeus, but facing their own struggles. Civil war, strife, famine... it's time for a strong hand to return them to order, as part of the new Archanean Empire. Surely, his old pal Marth will help him in this mission of subjug- I mean, liberation. And who would think to resist Emperor Hardin, benevolent ruler of the world?

2. Hardin turns his gaze northward, to the untamed wilds: those lands known as "Anri's Way". These lands know no law, and brutality reigns. Yet, they contain valuable resources - which will bring Archanea into a second golden age! Surely, if he imposes order and stability onto the local populace, they'll be more than willing to "share" their bounty. And Prince Marth can help him achieve this noble goal!

So the first one basically keeps the setup of FE3 Book 2 as it exists, minus "comically evil Hardin". While the second is sort of the "Western Isles subplot", expanded into the game's main thesis. Darksphere, I can take it or leave it - but as others have said, let it amplify Hardin's latent ambitions and frustrations, rather than being a "berserk ball". Hardin can be the final boss I guess... or...

3. In desperation, Hardin wishes to bring back an ally from the past. Who better than Archanea's legendary founder, Adrah? He convinces a reluctant Nyna to wield the Aum staff, and bring Adrah back in his kingdom's moment of need. Except... Adrah turns out to be... kind of a dick. He knows a sinking ship when he sees one. He takes Mercurius and the Darksphere, peaces out, and leaves with a battalion to go conquer Altea Castle while Marth is away. The game's conclusion pits Marth against the "Thief-King" of Yore, in one more chance to reclaim his homeland.

In this model, Archanea never conquers Altea, as Hardin's forces are dedicated elsewhere. So I'm not suggesting two Altea visits in one game, to be clear.

Finally, the series will have Merfolk!

Hardin just up and deciding to annex Grust and Macedon is actually a good way to go. As not only does it make some amount of sense given the situation, but it ties the civil wars there into a larger plot against Hardin which my original suggestion kind of failed to do.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 8/18/2024 at 8:47 PM, Jotari said:

Hardin just up and deciding to annex Grust and Macedon is actually a good way to go. As not only does it make some amount of sense given the situation, but it ties the civil wars there into a larger plot against Hardin which my original suggestion kind of failed to do.

Thanks!

I've been thinking more about this, and realized, there are two big questions to ask:

1. Who do we want the final boss to be?

2. What do we want the utility of the Sacred Stones to be?

My suggestion now feels very unrefined, because I half-heartedly answered the first (Hardin or Adrah IDGAF) and didn't answer the second. Specifically, I think we want A. a situation where Marth puts the Fire Emblem, and all the shiny orbs, together, and B. a final boss who can only be defeated via this "glow-up".

In this light, Hardin doesn't work, because he's only our enemy as long as he has the Darksphere. And Adrah would feel like a "Nemesis asspull" all over again. Gharnef and Medeus, meanwhile, would both be retreads of the last game. So, who's left?

As crazy as this sounds... what about Loptyr? Hear me out - we know that Naga exists on both continents, and the events of the Jugdral games preceded those of the original Archanea games. So it's not crazy to think that Loptyr, after centuries, could be brought back. On top of that, FE12's final boss already looks way more like FE4 Loptyr than like FE11 Medeus.

How'd he get there? Uh... some combination of "Seliph tosses the Loptyr tome into the ocean" with "the currents bring it to Archanea" and a side of "revived by the Aum staff"? I dunno, it's very loose in my mind. Regardless, Loptyr is among the few enemies who would warrant a "we gotta solve the Mystery of the Emblem (TM) in order to defeat him!" I thinj there's potential here.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Thanks!

I've been thinking more about this, and realized, there are two big questions to ask:

1. Who do we want the final boss to be?

2. What do we want the utility of the Sacred Stones to be?

My suggestion now feels very unrefined, because I half-heartedly answered the first (Hardin or Adrah IDGAF) and didn't answer the second. Specifically, I think we want A. a situation where Marth puts the Fire Emblem, and all the shiny orbs, together, and B. a final boss who can only be defeated via this "glow-up".

In this light, Hardin doesn't work, because he's only our enemy as long as he has the Darksphere. And Adrah would feel like a "Nemesis asspull" all over again. Gharnef and Medeus, meanwhile, would both be retreads of the last game. So, who's left?

As crazy as this sounds... what about Loptyr? Hear me out - we know that Naga exists on both continents, and the events of the Jugdral games preceded those of the original Archanea games. So it's not crazy to think that Loptyr, after centuries, could be brought back. On top of that, FE12's final boss already looks way more like FE4 Loptyr than like FE11 Medeus.

How'd he get there? Uh... some combination of "Seliph tosses the Loptyr tome into the ocean" with "the currents bring it to Archanea" and a side of "revived by the Aum staff"? I dunno, it's very loose in my mind. Regardless, Loptyr is among the few enemies who would warrant a "we gotta solve the Mystery of the Emblem (TM) in order to defeat him!" I thinj there's potential here.

No need to involve (the yet to exist) Seliph and book of Loptyr. One big loose thread of Genealogy is the status of the actual Loptyr. As in the original dragon with a body. He only gave Galle his blood, that presumably didn't kill him, since we know Naga did the same and she didn't die right away. So Loptyr could genuinely still be alive even with everything that went down in Jugdral.

Edited August 22 by Jotari

[X-Naut]

I was going to skip this topic but I had some bright ideas that might work, so here we go.

The Darksphere is too important to cut but it was stolen by Gharnef and never uncovered. If Gotoh found it again there's no way anyone else would get his clutches on it. My solution: Arlen uncovers it during an expedition to one of Gharnef's old lairs. It wouldn't surprise me if he held a candle to the old kook's philosophy or had an itch for dark magic that Wendell wouldn't let him scratch. This happens while the latter is out hunting shards, naturally. Imhullu is gone though, if Gotoh didn't lock it away where no one's finding it then there's no way Linde didn't torching it. If you want to give him that he can make a new one from scratch, but I don't think that's necessary.

To keep Hardin an enemy, just have plain old politics get involved. Archanea's councilmen might resent Marth and Altea for showing them up in the War of Shadows, so they feed into his natural resentment and convince him that Marth will undermine him too. They could easily guess he was in the know (and be right!) about her and Camus to stoke the distrust further. All this preserves the opening conflict, and while it sort of undermines the homegrown civil war you wanted in Grust it still applies. Thus, Lang can still be pardoned since he's a peer of these old crooked councilmen.

Lastly, if you don't want Sirius returning then Jeorge and Caeda can take over his interventional role. Ogma's her vassal and was operating in Grust on Talys's orders, you are full of it if you think she's in the dark about him. Jeorge doesn't intervene directly but he's been investigating Grust on his own and the two could keep a secret discourse going through his letters to Gordin. With his foresight he already has a letter to direct Caeda to their destination after pulling strings to help the twins' getaway, and she shows up with Gordin (Norne takes his Chapter 1 spot) on turn 2 as reinforcements. Probably both prepromoted so they stand a better chance, and Ogma too... heck, just raise the floor on Book 2, most of these guys already fought a war. You can tack FE12's prologue to the front if you want to keep Level One Babyland around.

I don't feel like giving a full rundown right now, will post again later once my ideas have more time to cook.