OMG it's a tier list

[Shadow Mir]

Titan loves a Pocket support, Rhys could also work as a replacement, and since Titan can Struggle with Hit% fire is nice.

With Rhys in play, i don't think Mist is necessary, but it is something that she is nice to have for.

Wasn't it proven also that Boyd ORKO's P4 Armours, this is something he can do, combined with access to hammer, everyone gets cake but really, you have 2 and haar doesn't really need it, might as well go to Titan/Boyd.

Other than the fact that Rhys has an inferior affinity (full defense >> full hit).

[Zkirsche]

Any thoughts on my arguments for Mist(T) down or Mordy up?

[Interceptor]

My thoughts on Mist are that we should put her in a burlap sack with Heather and the herons, and throw the lot of them into a river, because tiering utility units is asinine even in the context of arguing about video games on the Interbutts.

What the hell was your argument about Mordy? All I see is some Scooby-doo bullshit about a gap needing to close.

[Zkirsche]

What the hell was your argument about Mordy? All I see is some Scooby-doo bullshit about a gap needing to close.

I suppose it was quite a blanket statement. Some stats then, I'll start with the next GM above him (Oscar):

Base Resolve!Mordy: 28 HP, 38 Atk, 27 AS, 84 Avo, 32 Def, 8 Res

Level 15/0 Oscar with steel lance forge, 'C' Soren: 39.5 HP, 38 Atk, 23 AS, 76 Avo, 18 Def, 14 Res

Mordy is plenty durable, so I wouldn't even start that (32 Def is lol), as if anything, Oscar would lose for actually being able to take damage. And as for offence, well, being able to go up cliffs is very nice + winning in every parameter pretty much sums up the whole story for Mordy.

Now, you might say Oscar catches Mordy up in speed, but it's mostly superfluous anyway. 1 point in speed gets Mordy consistent doubling in 4-P/1/2 and even quite consistent in 4-3/4. In Atk, however, Oscar never catches Mordy up. They start at the same level and have the same growth. Plus, by the time Oscar gets stronger weapons (silver), Mordy does too (S strike). And as for defence, Mordy's base def > Oscar's cap, so it's always fairly close. Enemies in 4-4 never consistently exceed 40 Atk, so even this base Mordy only gets, like, 4RKO'ed. Very workable on the Defence too, then.

What's left? Well, Mordy's 2-2 + 2-E > Oscar's 3-P to 3-3 (doing more for the team). You could say gauge, but Mordy's gauge is fine anyway, and he can perform remarkably on the enemy phase only, so he can just smoke up on his PP. All that's left is 1-2 range, but considering Mordy is doubling more, dealing more damage and facing more enemies per enemy phase, that 1-2 range won't amount to much.

Therefore, Mordy > Oscar.

[Fenrir]

I just got an idea, what if we put resolve mordecai and regular mordy in different spots, unless it is unanimously agreed Mordy should always get resolve.

[Interceptor]

I just got an idea, what if we put resolve mordecai and regular mordy in different spots, unless it is unanimously agreed Mordy should always get resolve.

Nothing lies down this path except pain and suffering. It was hard enough to get (T) versions of characters on the list, which required a stroke-inducing, reality-bending logical exception. If we create a spot for every possible way to play a character, the list will balloon into a convoluted mess. I'd rather gargle a fistful of broken glass than try to figure out where to put Steel Blade!Mia.

I suppose it was quite a blanket statement. Some stats then, I'll start with the next GM above him (Oscar):

It's entirely inaccurate to just throw down Mordy's stats with Resolve and call it a day.

First of all, Mordecai is not optimal deployment, which is a problem for resource distribution. Giving things like Adept/Cancel/Ike support to Mia in a comparison is usually not a problem, because Mia is probably also going to be deployed with the same resource distribution in her "opponent's" army. This is not the case for Mordecai, since Oscar's army is not overly likely to be using him, as near as I can tell. The point? Oscar can give Resolve to whomever he wants, whereas Mordecai has to use it on himself, which has an effect on the army comparison even though Mordecai himself is Doritos for the resource. Put another way, if it were possible to prove that Resolve!Mordecai was 100% equivalent to Oscar, Oscar wins by roughly the amount that Resolve helps his own army.

Secondly, Mordecai isn't doing shit until Turn 3. He's entitled to whatever grass he wants, but we can't be wasting stones on him. This also means confusing the front line, due to having to put Mordy in front of something (and only one thing) to get into Resolve HP, following it up with a kill later on. Oscar at least can act from Turn 1.

Thirdly, Mordecai's chance to get above 27 effective AS is pretty small. He levels transformed about as well as base level Oscar, but at level 20 he's already EXPing like a tier 3 unit. With a 15% SPD growth, that's not a lot of chances to get somewhere: after four levels, he's only 50/50 on getting at least one point. BEXP is absolutely no help at all, his best chance is either a late 3-9 Speedwing (good luck with that), or providence. Even Blossom can't help him, since his effective SPD growth would still be worse than Haar's, not that he can even fit it with Resolve in the first place.

I agree that 1-2 range is not a big deal, mostly because Oscar's 1-2 range is balls to begin with. Javelins are horrible even when you can forge them, especially since Oscar's mastery is garbage (at least Neph can bait 1-range Impales at a high proc rate). But that's about all that I agree with.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Interceptor

[Fenrir]

Nothing lies down this path except pain and suffering. It was hard enough to get (T) versions of characters on the list, which required a stroke-inducing, reality-bending logical exception. If we create a spot for every possible way to play a character, the list will balloon into a convoluted mess. I'd rather gargle a fistful of broken glass than try to figure out where to put Steel Blade!Mia.

Can you post it to youtube?

well yeah that makes scence i guess, but it was just an idea...

[Renall]

Is there any chance of FE9 laguz getting to stat caps for transfers anyway (in Fixed)? I forget.

[grandjackal]

Know something? Considering it's been shown that Resolve on the DB can actually save turns in the form of killing Ike in 3-13, does Resolve ever save turns in the GM part 3? Let's take a moment to think that over, because if the DB's keeping Resolve, Mordy's got some problems.

Also, I would agree that Boyd should get some credit for early part 3 when he can't quite be cast out of the team. 3-P, he starts with a head start of just about every other combat unit on the team. He's capable of keeping up with the cavaliers up until near the boss area he starts that far ahead. Since neither of them are doubling quite yet, him helping them move forward is what is helping us complete this place faster. I have to wonder how ast this actually could be done without Boyd. If he doesn't help make things go faster, he's certainly making it easier.

Not exactly sure how effective he is in 3-1, but 3-2 he's got some utility in helping some avoid counters with his massive chip and decent durability for the 2-3 turns this chapter's happening. If it helps Neph or whoever get more EXP safely, he could get some credit for it.

3-3 and onward though I think is where things start to get iffy.

Again though, more than Aran can take credit for. For a good amount. He doesn't even contribute more than Eddie, why would he compare to Boyd (that is, unless again, Eddie's too low)? He contributes nothing, needs to be trained to be effectice, and when trained he's just someone who takes hits and doesn't do much in retaliation for the few points of part 3 he has. I dunno, but he just sounds like lower mid to me.

[Interceptor]

Is there any chance of FE9 laguz getting to stat caps for transfers anyway (in Fixed)? I forget.

It doesn't happen often. Where it does, it's indicated in the first post in this thread.

Know something? Considering it's been shown that Resolve on the DB can actually save turns in the form of killing Ike in 3-13

Did I miss a memo somewhere? Who is using Resolve to kill Ike more quickly?

[Anouleth]

My thoughts on Mist are that we should put her in a burlap sack with Heather and the herons, and throw the lot of them into a river, because tiering utility units is asinine even in the context of arguing about video games on the Interbutts.

I wouldn't go that far. It's certainly not as hard to tier as something like Heather or the herons, since Mist has two clear, discrete competitors that exist for any team - Mr. Vulnerary and Mrs. Concoction. And we have to question how useful being able to free up someone for the occasional player phase is, especially when we can't really expose her (even with transfers, she's still vulnerable and has no real enemy phase.) I suppose she also gets value from Restoring in Part 4, but if Tormod/Vika/Muarim do their job properly, it's not really necessary.

I suppose that you really need to play Part 3 efficiently, which I haven't done, to consider accurately how valuable Mist's healing is.

Did I miss a memo somewhere? Who is using Resolve to kill Ike more quickly?

inb4Edward

Edited July 12, 2010 by Slowking

[Zkirsche]

It's entirely inaccurate to just throw down Mordy's stats with Resolve and call it a day.

First of all, Mordecai is not optimal deployment

There's plenty of spaces to put Mordy, in 3-4, for example, the onyl people who are better are probably Ike/Haar/Gatrie/Titania/Mia/Shinon, and there's more than just 6 spaces: aka, he's getting deployed. Even in 3-8, the onyl new units we have for those spots are Janaff/Ulki/Reyson, and we only want to use one of janaff/ulki, and again, tehre are more than 8 slots, so Mordy can easily find a place until part 4, where there are so many slots It doesn't matter, like, at all.

Secondly, Mordecai isn't doing shit until Turn 3. He's entitled to whatever grass he wants, but we can't be wasting stones on him. This also means confusing the front line, due to having to put Mordy in front of something (and only one thing) to get into Resolve HP, following it up with a kill later on. Oscar at least can act from Turn 1.

How is this such an issue? Just put him in harms way on turn 1, heck, if it's a ranged n00b, Mordy transforms on turn 2 with resolve (also reyson). It doesn't matter if we leave holes on the front line anyway as chokeholing generally takes longer than not (less enemy phase exposure).

And what Mordy does from turn 2/3 onwards > what Oscar does from turn 1.

Thirdly, Mordecai's chance to get above 27 effective AS is pretty small. He levels transformed about as well as base level Oscar, but at level 20 he's already EXPing like a tier 3 unit. With a 15% SPD growth, that's not a lot of chances to get somewhere: after four levels, he's only 50/50 on getting at least one point. BEXP is absolutely no help at all, his best chance is either a late 3-9 Speedwing (good luck with that), or providence. Even Blossom can't help him, since his effective SPD growth would still be worse than Haar's, not that he can even fit it with Resolve in the first place.

A level 22 Mordy is not too unreasonable for part 4 (a level 20/4 beorc, not impossible), and he has plenty of chance to get that extra speed (90%) and if that isn't good enougth, we can bexp him to 99 and then give him an extra level on his first turn of combat.

[grandjackal]

Did I miss a memo somewhere? Who is using Resolve to kill Ike more quickly?

Volug with Wrath. You can't deny that it makes things easier at least.

Besides, from what we see of what you said Mordy's not doing shit until turn 3, and isn't optimal deployment. Where do I see the reason to take Resolve from the DB again? I'm not saying the GM can't have it, but if it ain't Mordy then who?

[RNG Princess]

Volug makes a good use of resolve anyway, especially if he has a support with somebody he also doubles things (>Mordy) and deals better damage (>Kyza).

I don't emulate, I play the actual game.

I own the game as well and nvm the most recent is Part 2-E

Edited July 12, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Interceptor]

There's plenty of spaces to put Mordy [...]

We're not low on deployment slots. The point is that Mordecai is taking CEXP from someone who actually has good prospects in Part 4. He cannot apply his offense for free.

How is this such an issue?

Like I said: you're leaving an enemy unit behind your front line that has to be dealt with. Stomp it with scrubs, that's fine with me, but Oscar doesn't have to do that. God forbid if there's nothing that's in range of Mordecai on Turn 1. I have no idea what "chokholing" is.

And what Mordy does from turn 2/3 onwards > what Oscar does from turn 1.

Unless he doesn't exist (3-5), or it doesn't matter (3-7), or the chapter is over in 7-8 turns.

A level 22 Mordy is not too unreasonable for part 4 (a level 20/4 beorc, not impossible), and he has plenty of chance to get that extra speed (90%) and if that isn't good enougth, we can bexp him to 99 and then give him an extra level on his first turn of combat.

Mordy's chance to fail to proc SPD for 6 levels in a row is not 10%, it's 37%. That means slightly worse than a 1 in 3 chance that he's still at base SPD. That's goddamn terrible for a comparison that depends on his having 30 effective AS in Part 4.

Volug with Wrath. You can't deny that it makes things easier at least.

Volug needs the crit for the kill, not to mention some bonus STR on top of his base, since 36mt isn't much of a threat to 50HP/26DEF. There's about a one in four chance that a doubling, Wrath'ed Volug will fail to crit twice, if Soren is alive, about one in five if not. Volug gets 2HKO'ed by Ike with Ragnell at full health, and he has to be <30% for Wrath. Volug can't Canto.

Put those pieces of the puzzle together and tell me what the picture looks like. What kind of risks and/or tactics are we talking about, here?

Besides, from what we see of what you said Mordy's not doing shit until turn 3, and isn't optimal deployment. Where do I see the reason to take Resolve from the DB again? I'm not saying the GM can't have it, but if it ain't Mordy then who?

I have an idea: why don't you wait until I take a position on something before you start arguing with me?

Edited July 12, 2010 by Interceptor

[Fenrir]

Volug needs the crit for the kill, not to mention some bonus STR on top of his base, since 36mt isn't much of a threat to 50HP/26DEF. There's about a one in four chance that a doubling, Wrath'ed Volug will fail to crit twice, if Soren is alive, about one in five if not. Volug gets 2HKO'ed by Ike with Ragnell at full health, and he has to be <30% for Wrath. Volug can't Canto.

Put those pieces of the puzzle together and tell me what the picture looks like. What kind of risks and/or tactics are we talking about, here?

Volug shouldn't be doubling Ike, giving him a reason for resolve.

Can Volug be physiced?

[Anouleth]

A level 22 Mordy is not too unreasonable for part 4 (a level 20/4 beorc, not impossible), and he has plenty of chance to get that extra speed (90%) and if that isn't good enougth, we can bexp him to 99 and then give him an extra level on his first turn of combat.

I'm detecting some mathematical failure here. Just because Mordecai's speed average is 9.9 doesn't mean his chance to have 10 speed is 90%, any more than Titania has a 100% chance to have 22AS after two levels. His actual chance of rolling his 15% speed proc after six levels is only 62%, putting him at risk of failing to proc and therefore being useless.

And even in Part 4, we have better choices. Let's say Mordecai is level 25 going into 4-4 (I'm probably underestimating here). Even with a 7 level advantage, he is STILL arguably a worse choice than Muarim. Muarim has 18STR/11SPD, has a good starting position, and starts transformed. Mordecai only has a 39% chance of matching that strength and 40% for that speed, assuming we don't throw Muarim a level of BEXP in the hope that he'll proc STR. Mordecai has other advantages over Muarim, like better luck and defence, but if the 'cost' of having a good Mordecai in 4-4 is having a shitty Muarim, I'm not seeing how Mordecai is helping us. We have Skrimir's Resolve, I suppose, but Skrimir makes decent use of it himself. Even Haar could take it depending on how lucky he is with his speed, and it's not hard to goad Numida into Purging him.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Slowking

[Interceptor]

Volug shouldn't be doubling Ike, giving him a reason for resolve.

He needs Resolve to double Ike, is the point. Volug with 39 effective AS is obviously more than enough for the job. The point is, Volug has to be <50% health to double Ike, and <30% health for Wrath, which is incredibly dangerous. Especially if he fails, because now Ike is going to pull out Ragnell on Enemy Phase, and his DEF is 31, Have Fun Storming the Castle<tm>.

Can Volug be physiced?

No, wolf laguz are immune to healing spells, it's how they balanced them. not really

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm detecting some mathematical failure here. Just because Mordecai's speed average is 9.9 doesn't mean his chance to have 10 speed is 90%, any more than Titania has a 100% chance to have 22AS after two levels. His actual chance of rolling his 15% speed proc after six levels is only 62%, putting him at risk of failing to proc and therefore being useless.

And even in Part 4, we have better choices. Let's say Mordecai is level 25 going into 4-4 (I'm probably underestimating here). Even with a 7 level advantage, he is STILL arguably a worse choice than Muarim. Muarim has 18STR/11SPD, has a good starting position, and starts transformed. Mordecai only has a 39% chance of matching that strength and 40% for that speed, assuming we don't throw Muarim a level of BEXP in the hope that he'll proc STR. Mordecai has other advantages over Muarim, like better luck and defence, but if the 'cost' of having a good Mordecai in 4-4 is having a shitty Muarim, I'm not seeing how Mordecai is helping us. We have Skrimir's Resolve, I suppose, but Skrimir makes decent use of it himself. Even Haar could take it depending on how lucky he is with his speed, and it's not hard to goad Numida into Purging him.

Mordy need not go to 4-1, 4-4, you know. 4-P is his stomping grounds. Mordy with S strike and Resolve has 43 mt. One point of strength or an A support gets him to 45 and he can 2HKO (and double) every single pally. 3HKO the Generals. ORKO the halbs. Unlikely to double Warriors but 2HKOs anyway. A lot of that is accomplished with just 43 mt, by the way.

Also, even if you are going to compare him to Muarim, Mordy doesn't need that 39% chance. Mordy should have S strike or you haven't been using him well (if at all). It's not fair to compare them that way. You might as well compare base Shinon to Renning and conclude Renning > Shinon for 4-E. Mordy's not bad enough in part 3 to justify using him in 4-4 at base level and strike. And the difference between 30 AS and 33 AS in 4-4 is 2 halbs and 6 warriors. However, 46 mt isn't ORKOing either halbs or warriors anyway. swordmasters double neither. And oh yeah, even level 23 Mordy has a pretty massive Resolve durability lead. 31 hp. 38 def. Muarim has 29 hp and 30 def. To compare, Mordy is tinked by all but two swordmasters. The second weakest 5HKOs Muarim. With pretty massive crit. Axe wielding warriors have around 44 to 46 mt. They are capable of 2HKOing Muarim. Particularly if you aren't able to hit the perfect resolve amount. Mordy is 4HKOd by the strongest, though some will 5HKO and even the strongest only 5HKOs if Mordy has even a C support. Most halbs have between 39 and 41 mt. That's a 3HKO, generally, on Muarim. On Mordy? 40 mt is a 16HKO. He can tank 5 criticals and keep going.

This goes on and on. The best part is that there are even enemies that can ORKO Muarim. hit + crit and resolve won't activate and 4 warriors can pull off the ORKO. Other enemies need Muarim at lower hp to pull off the same feat, but they can still do so without Muarim reaching resolve range. eg: tempest sword master has 42 atk. Even if you give Muarim a C support, that's 11 damage. Muarim can have as much as 44 hp and still get ORKOd. And the guy has 40 crit. On Muarim's 12 luck that's a massive 28% crit rate. Muarim is in serious trouble every moment he is running around that map. Honestly? Fortune gives Muarim a better survival rate on this map than Resolve does, though his offence would of course end up even worse. The 3-9 speedwing is dumb to waste on Muarim, but that plus Fortune would allow Muarim to approach Mordy's ability to tank this map. Not beat. Not even tie. Approach. (p.s., Mordy is immune to the crits from the only enemies he fears: Warriors with their 18 or 19 crit and Generals with their 13 to 15 crit. Yes, Muarim is even vulnerable to crits from Generals thanks to his abysmal luck stat. I'm ignoring sages because it would be suicide for either of them to go near anything that uses magic. Even shine bishops are a problem due to crit chance (they have 22 crit and 35 mt. Resolve Muarim is easily OHKOd 10% of the successful hits). Arcwind can OHKO a resolve tiger rather easily with a crit, too, and arcfire will flat out OHKO. Arcthunder is asking to die almost as much as arcfire. )

Edited July 13, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Interceptor]

It doesn't matter if Maurim dies, though. We don't care about his inventory, or Wrath, certainly. Resolve isn't a big deal either; using it in 4-4 precludes using it in 4-3 and 4-5 anyway. Also, it's almost useless in Endgame, since anyone who actually needs Resolve for offense there is guaranteed suck to begin with.

EDIT: forgot to make a point. Maurim doesn't need to be trained to be useful in 4-4, he just needs skills that we were done with anyway.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Interceptor

[NinjaMonkey]

He needs Resolve to double Ike, is the point. Volug with 39 effective AS is obviously more than enough for the job. The point is, Volug has to be <50% health to double Ike, and <30% health for Wrath, which is incredibly dangerous. Especially if he fails, because now Ike is going to pull out Ragnell on Enemy Phase, and his DEF is 31, Have Fun Storming the Castle<tm>.

Couldn't Miccy-Sue hit Ike with the Sleep Staff, thereby ensuring that Ike can't counter (assuming we are talking about 3-13)?

[Interceptor]

Couldn't Miccy-Sue hit Ike with the Sleep Staff, thereby ensuring that Ike can't counter (assuming we are talking about 3-13)?

Not in a million years, since she's stuck on the top platform. Laura can Sleep him, but now you could kill Ike with a wet noodle. Ike still has god DEF, but now he has no avoid, and doesn't counter, as you said. Shit, even Laura could kill him at that point.

[Narga_Rocks]

Couldn't Miccy-Sue hit Ike with the Sleep Staff, thereby ensuring that Ike can't counter (assuming we are talking about 3-13)?

Micaiah is too far away. Ike is way at the bottom. I realize someone that probably hangs around until turn 10 and allows Ike to move may have the ability to reach Ike with Micaiah, but that doesn't work for those trying to win quicker. Laura is the only one that can, and 10/1 Laura (you could maybe get her a bit higher with bexp, but that hurts your other units) only has a little over 60% chance while at max range. You do not want her closer. In fact, at her max range she still has to jump down the ledge to reach Ike which could be dangerous. Sleeping Ike with the staff is something that could be quite helpful, however it is not necessarily practical to assume that this is done.

[Anouleth]

Mordy need not go to 4-1, 4-4, you know. 4-P is his stomping grounds. Mordy with S strike and Resolve has 43 mt. One point of strength or an A support gets him to 45 and he can 2HKO (and double) every single pally. 3HKO the Generals. ORKO the halbs. Unlikely to double Warriors but 2HKOs anyway. A lot of that is accomplished with just 43 mt, by the way.

I forget about Strike Ranks... but I don't know how likely Mordecai is to even have S Rank by that point.

And while I brought up 4-4, I'm aware that Mordecai can go on any route. But whether he's with Ike or Micaiah or Elincia, he still takes away Resolve from Muarim by using it. Even in 4-2, he's hogging it since we can't remove it until 4-5 (which he's not really useful for anyway).

Also, even if you are going to compare him to Muarim, Mordy doesn't need that 39% chance. Mordy should have S strike or you haven't been using him well (if at all). It's not fair to compare them that way. You might as well compare base Shinon to Renning and conclude Renning > Shinon for 4-E. Mordy's not bad enough in part 3 to justify using him in 4-4 at base level and strike. And the difference between 30 AS and 33 AS in 4-4 is 2 halbs and 6 warriors. However, 46 mt isn't ORKOing either halbs or warriors anyway. swordmasters double neither. And oh yeah, even level 23 Mordy has a pretty massive Resolve durability lead. 38 def. 31 hp. Muarim has 29 hp and 30 def. To compare, Mordy is tinked by all but two swordmasters. The second weakest 5HKOs Muarim. With pretty massive crit. Axe wielding warriors have around 44 to 46 mt. They are capable of 2HKOing Muarim. Particularly if you aren't able to hit the perfect resolve amount. Mordy is 3HKOd, though some will 4HKO if he has a support. Most halbs have between 39 and 41 mt. That's a 3HKO, generally, on Muarim. On Mordy? 40 mt is a 16HKO. He can tank 5 criticals and keep going.

This goes on and on. The best part is that there are even enemies that can ORKO Muarim. hit + crit and resolve won't activate and 4 warriors can pull off the ORKO. Other enemies need Muarim at lower hp to pull off the same feat, but they can still do so without Muarim reaching resolve range. eg: tempest sword master has 42 atk. Even if you give Muarim a C support, that's 11 damage. Muarim can have as much as 44 hp and still get ORKOd. And the guy has 40 crit. On Muarim's 12 luck that's a massive 28% crit rate. Muarim is in serious trouble every moment he is running around that map. Honestly? Fortune gives Muarim a better survival rate on this map than Resolve does, though his offence would of course end up even worse. The 3-9 speedwing is dumb to waste on Muarim, but that plus Fortune would allow Muarim to approach Mordy's ability to tank this map. Not beat. Not even tie. Approach. (p.s., Mordy is immune to the crits from the only enemies he fears: Warriors with their 18 or 19 crit and Generals with their 13 to 15 crit. Yes, Muarim is even vulnerable to crits from Generals thanks to his abysmal luck stat. I'm ignoring sages because it would be suicide for either of them to go near anything that uses magic. Even shine bishops are a problem due to crit chance (they have 22 crit and 35 mt. Resolve Muarim is easily OHKOd 10% of the successful hits). Arcwind can OHKO a resolve tiger rather easily with a crit, too, and arcfire will flat out OHKO. Arcthunder is asking to die almost as much as arcfire. )

Yeah, I forget Muarim's luck. I guess he might be able to stand next to Tormod occasionally for the 10CEV (Tormod can use Meteor to open doors, so he isn't picky about where he stands, but obviously he has his own durability concerns...), but not very often.

I guess that Muarim could also take a level of BEXP for an extra point of strength, since it's tied for second highest growth and the game prioritises strength over luck iirc, but that's also pretty risky.

I don't know why you bring up the 3-9 Speedwing, though. Surely a Dracoshield would be a better choice? Still not very likely, but at least in the realm of possibility.

[Narga_Rocks]

I forget about Strike Ranks... but I don't know how likely Mordecai is to even have S Rank by that point.

2-2, 2-E, 3-4, 3-7, 3-8, 3-10, 3-11, 3-E, 4-P/1/2.

9 maps. Resolve doubling for 7 of them. Needs only 8 wexp per map. 8 hits per map while doubling for 7 of them. If he doesn't have s strike by 4-3/4/5, you are Doing It Wrong. Like I said, you might as well compare base shinon to Renning in 4-E and say Renning > shinon for 4-E.

And while I brought up 4-4, I'm aware that Mordecai can go on any route. But whether he's with Ike or Micaiah or Elincia, he still takes away Resolve from Muarim by using it. Even in 4-2, he's hogging it since we can't remove it until 4-5 (which he's not really useful for anyway).

But Muarim is still not particularly good at helping you out with resolve, anyway. Muarim is basically useless trash at this point as far as combat is concerned. He's a 9 move 2 gap cost chestkey/sleep bait, basically. If you expect anything more out of him, you won't be getting it for long if at all. Mordy may well be taking resolve from somebody in 4-4, but it ain't Muarim.

Yeah, I forget Muarim's luck. I guess he might be able to stand next to Tormod occasionally for the 10CEV (Tormod can use Meteor to open doors, so he isn't picky about where he stands, but obviously he has his own durability concerns...), but not very often.

Only good for Warriors and Generals. The rest still have crit. Well, I guess that some mages have 22 crit, so it's good on those. 40 crit Tempest dude still kinda laughs at him. As do Arcfire guy and Arcthunder guy. Also, things will probably attack Tormod. The cev boost will last like 2 turns, max, then Muarim will die in 1 to 3 turns anyway.

I guess that Muarim could also take a level of BEXP for an extra point of strength, since it's tied for second highest growth and the game prioritises strength over luck iirc, but that's also pretty risky.

48 mt does get a couple more things, and maybe a C Tormod, which gives 47 mt, lets him get a couple of things. Durability is the bigger concern, though.

I don't know why you bring up the 3-9 Speedwing, though. Surely a Dracoshield would be a better choice? Still not very likely, but at least in the realm of possibility.

Because he wants to not be doubled or criticaled. Wing + Fortune is the only way to choose both (aside from swordmasters who will double despite the wing). Resolve has 15 capacity, shove 5, and Fortune 20. That's 40, and he has 35. I'd give him Resolve + Fortune, but I can't. Getting him up to 34 def isn't going to solve his underlying problem. He will randomly die on you due to pathetic luck. If you are trying to use him for anything more than sleep staff bait and door/chest opening, that's a problem.