OMG it's a tier list

[Colonel M]

Just stating that it isn't listed in the WEXP formula on-site.

[Narga_Rocks]

Just stating that it isn't listed in the WEXP formula on-site.

I have anecdotal evidence. Which is, of course, completely useless. But Vika got up to S strike way too quickly in my EM playthough. Granted, that was like November 2008, so it makes my "evidence" even more worthless, but it really does seem as though laguz wexp, at least, is doubled. As for the beorc, it's hard to tell because their weapons give so much wexp in this game that their weapon level always goes up way faster than I expect. It takes 16 hits with a silver dagger to get Heather from S to SS. Since she doubles everything under the sun, that's 8 battles.

If I really wanted to do it right, though, I accept that I'd have to actually count. Probably use Vika against a boss or something, but even then she has 25 mt at base while transformed. I suppose 16 mt untransformed, but I like doubling.

[Anouleth]

He won't consistently 1-round later in Part 1. Even in NM, he won't.

So he can set up kills for weaker characters while still gaining WEXP.

[-Cynthia-]

Volug has even more issues on 1-E than not doubing, there are a lot of mages to worry about (particularly fire ones, the Meteor guy cuts his Mov down by quite a bit). Then there's the fact that all the chests in 1-E make Sothe on the most useful memebers of the team anyway.

[Interceptor]

I don't know about the chests. The only items worth putting your hands on in 1-E are Speedwings and maybe Parity. So not only do you possibly have some leftover chest keys, but two more uses drop in this chapter, and the enemy thieves will helpfully get the items for you anyway (and you just need to kill them now). Sothe maybe saves you some scrub running around with a key, or from killing something that was going to die anyway.

[-Cynthia-]

Vantage can be a marginally ueful skill for a SM or something later on, and the Reaper Card nets us a nice bit of cash when sold.

I suppose there are Chest Keys, though I like to save them for 4-4, since otherwise we have to spend a lot of effort protecting Heather or miss out on the items there.

[dondon151]

I don't think I've ever had Sothe open a chest on 1-E. Usually it's Nailah or Volug running up and killing them.

[Florete]

So it's looking like Nealuchi vs Leonardo ended up with Leo winning, right? That's what it looked like, and that's how I'd probably put it.

Precisely. He generally hits SS strike for me midway through 3-13.

Same. I usually have S around 1-8 or 1-E. So it's looking like Volug going down was probably a mistake.

[Oceanbourne]

Do people usually kill the thieves with Nailah, (which requires Pass, I'm not sure if that's why people don't use her too) because she can get to the thieves by Turn 2 easily and only a few enemies suicide into her. Or would it be easier for the thieves to simply open all the chests and kill them?

[Narga_Rocks]

Do people usually kill the thieves with Nailah, (which requires Pass, I'm not sure if that's why people don't use her too) because she can get to the thieves by Turn 2 easily and only a few enemies suicide into her. Or would it be easier for the thieves to simply open all the chests and kill them?

A combination of Rafiel and Black Knight clears the path for Nailah as well. Even up a ledge, BK OHKOs and has like 70 listed or something, so he's got a pretty high chance of hitting once (which is all he needs). Nailah doesn't technically need pass, you just need to make sure you arrange it so that Rafiel isn't killed on enemy phase.

As for the theives, don't they only drop one item when you kill them? If you want the stuff, can't just let them grab 3 things then kill them.

[Oceanbourne]

Okay, then. Well, this last run, Nailah killed one of the thieves and let the other one swipe the Reaper Card before Volug made it up there and got it back, leaving Sothe open to work his way to the upper chests. Would it be better to just open the chests with Chest Keys because you only need to save 2 at the most for 4-4 (depending on how much you want and if you deploy Heather or not)? Between the poison and Micaiah's lack of authority stars Sothe is nearly getting 3HKOed (26 mt for base Sothe).

[Interceptor]

Same. I usually have S around 1-8 or 1-E. So it's looking like Volug going down was probably a mistake.

If he can get S Strike by the start of 1-E, that means that Volug with 1-2's Energy Drop can OHKO any mage with a 33 HP/DEF combo, aka pretty much all of them.

Just sayin'.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Interceptor

[grandjackal]

with 1-2's Energy Drop

So much for a big thing I was building an argument over...

[Narga_Rocks]

So much for a big thing I was building an argument over...

There are benefits to Volug getting it, but there are also benefits elsewhere. You can try, but obviously there is one person you won't have in your court.

[grandjackal]

There are benefits to Volug getting it, but there are also benefits elsewhere. You can try, but obviously there is one person you won't have in your court.

I sort of figured that even if I brought it up, Interceptor wouldn't like the idea off the bat.

Should I even bother throwing the idea out there? Even considering, still don't think it's quite ready steady.

[Narga_Rocks]

I sort of figured that even if I brought it up, Interceptor wouldn't like the idea off the bat.

Should I even bother throwing the idea out there? Even considering, still don't think it's quite ready steady.

I don't think you are ready yet, but you might as well when you are. The biggest trouble is probably levels more than items.

Just, keep in mind that Volug gets durability and offence out of an energy drop. If you give him the drop in the base of 1-5 he gets to OHKO mages in 1-5 and he does so off and on along the way. Also, if he gets to S strike any time during 1-E then he can OHKO some (or was it all?) the mages there. Since mages are his biggest durability problem and he has 4 move on them, it helps. Of course, by 1-E his 13 def is starting to hurt, so he's still not as durable as some.

[grandjackal]

I don't think you are ready yet, but you might as well when you are. The biggest trouble is probably levels more than items.

Right, I'll hold back on it for now. I know levels are the bigger problem here.

Just, keep in mind that Volug gets durability and offence out of an energy drop. If you give him the drop in the base of 1-5 he gets to OHKO mages in 1-5 and he does so off and on along the way. Also, if he gets to S strike any time during 1-E then he can OHKO some (or was it all?) the mages there. Since mages are his biggest durability problem and he has 4 move on them, it helps. Of course, by 1-E his 13 def is starting to hurt, so he's still not as durable as some.

In my defense, they still don't pose much a threat in 1-5 and 1-6-2. Annoying sure, but that's about the worst it gets.

Out of all the contenders that want it that I overlooked, why did it have to be freaking Volug?

[Colonel M]

I have one guess: Edward?

[Narga_Rocks]

I have one guess: Edward?

Something tells me that GJ is quite well known around these parts.

[grandjackal]

I have one guess: Edward?

Stfu Colonel...

...Yes, it's Eddie. I have double, triple and quadruple checked this over, talked it over with Narga, and I'm still not 100% sure I can convince anyone on this. It's like how Mia is basically given everything, except it's DB style, meaning it's easily bound to be a lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot worse for Eddie.

Not that the argument involves a forge of any sort (rather, it involves no forges at all), but that energy drop might as well count as everything the DB has.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[nflchamp]

I don't think you are ready yet, but you might as well when you are. The biggest trouble is probably levels more than items.

Just, keep in mind that Volug gets durability and offence out of an energy drop. If you give him the drop in the base of 1-5 he gets to OHKO mages in 1-5 and he does so off and on along the way. Also, if he gets to S strike any time during 1-E then he can OHKO some (or was it all?) the mages there. Since mages are his biggest durability problem and he has 4 move on them, it helps. Of course, by 1-E his 13 def is starting to hurt, so he's still not as durable as some.

Volug puts that energy drop to good use all the way into part 4. It'd be tough to argue that anyone else has a great chance of getting it. At least it's being argued for someone who shows up before Volug and can take it before it rots in the convoy for a while.

[Anouleth]

Stfu Colonel...

...Yes, it's Eddie. I have double, triple and quadruple checked this over, talked it over with Narga, and I'm still not 100% sure I can convince anyone on this. It's like how Mia is basically given everything, except it's DB style, meaning it's easily bound to be a lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot worse for Eddie.

Not that the argument involves a forge of any sort (rather, it involves no forges at all), but that energy drop might as well count as everything the DB has.

Edward's contenders are:

-Volug. +3 atk, after Part 1 +4.

-Nolan. +2 atk and +2AS with the Steel Axe. It's kinda useful forever, since Nolan never caps strength, but it's best early on since he avoids getting doubled by the fastest things. And also more damage and avoid.

-Jill. +2 atk and +2AS with the Steel Axe. Again, useful forever, but Jill joins later. But she can run around smashing Peggies in 1-6-1 this way.

And Mia isn't given 'everything'. She gets Adept, which is best on her anyway, the Ike support, which she can easily pay the opportunity cost as well, and some people give her a critforge too. I think the critforge is a little too much, but I haven't really seen much data on how much it improves her performance by.

[Interceptor]

I think the critforge is a little too much, but I haven't really seen much data on how much it improves her performance by.

Critforge has three main benefits:

- It's purely money-based, unlike Adept, so for people who aren't pissing gold away on hookers and blow, Mia can nearly get it for free.

- It augments her Adept proc rate. For example, With Adept and a Steel Blade only she may be 60% ORKO, but with a critforge in place of a Blade you can push that rate to about 72%. Crit is also bio-immune, meaning that it helps keep her kill rate from cratering when she goes into Worst bio and Adept is only proccing 20% of the time.

- It improves her durability, because anything that she 3HKOs at 1-range (which is a lot of stuff), will die instantly before attacking her on Enemy Phase if Vantage and crit proc at the same time. This only happens about ~7.5% of the time, but it's more than double what she would normally get.

So it's something that you can pass on, but there is really no reason to do so. Even if you just make her a single forge without replacing it and keep it on deck for situations that +15% crit or te extra +1 mt reach will make a difference, it's worth doing. GMs don't have a lot of expenditures.

[grandjackal]

Volug puts that energy drop to good use all the way into part 4. It'd be tough to argue that anyone else has a great chance of getting it. At least it's being argued for someone who shows up before Volug and can take it before it rots in the convoy for a while.

Thing is, Eddie could as soon as you get it (and it's easy enough to get it in his hands before the start of 1-3 while 7 turning 1-2). The problem is, as stated, the leveling. It's probably the biggest deal with my argument so far.

For my argument to work, I have to show that Eddie consistantly gets to level 8 by the start of 1-3, or is close enough that the fighter that starts just off to the right supplies him the level, while not destroying turn count (which numerous times, I have done, but good luck if I can convince anyone that it's a good idea).

If I can do that, it's sort of a floodgate really. However, I don't want this argument to devolve to hype, thus why I'm trying to steadily build it up (and I have to thank Narga for helping me straighten up a few factors). I'm still quite unsure I could convince anyone, thus why I'll hold back for now.

Edward's contenders are:

-Volug. +3 atk, after Part 1 +4.

Yes, most obviously my biggest problem.

-Nolan. +2 atk and +2AS with the Steel Axe. It's kinda useful forever, since Nolan never caps strength, but it's best early on since he avoids getting doubled by the fastest things. And also more damage and avoid.

A simple Speed or Str proc solves that problem (of which getting either on a level is pretty big). However, if I can also prove enemy density being significantly sparce enough, him dying even under doubling should not pose much a problem as surviving wouldn't be that hard (I got doubled, yet no one else is around...).

-Jill. +2 atk and +2AS with the Steel Axe. Again, useful forever, but Jill joins later. But she can run around smashing Peggies in 1-6-1 this way.

Or, you could forge her an iron axe instead of waiting that long to use a resource (and is also a competitor with Volug).

And Mia isn't given 'everything'. She gets Adept, which is best on her anyway, the Ike support, which she can easily pay the opportunity cost as well, and some people give her a critforge too. I think the critforge is a little too much, but I haven't really seen much data on how much it improves her performance by.

Yet it doesn't stop people from blowing it out of proportion, does it? I'm not even asking for forges, just the energy drop really. But again, I'm gonna lay off until I'm far more certain that my argument is concrete.

[Ether]

Thing is, Eddie could as soon as you get it (and it's easy enough to get it in his hands before the start of 1-3 while 7 turning 1-2). The problem is, as stated, the leveling. It's probably the biggest deal with my argument so far.

For my argument to work, I have to show that Eddie consistantly gets to level 8 by the start of 1-3, or is close enough that the fighter that starts just off to the right supplies him the level, while not destroying turn count (which numerous times, I have done, but good luck if I can convince anyone that it's a good idea).

If I can do that, it's sort of a floodgate really. However, I don't want this argument to devolve to hype, thus why I'm trying to steadily build it up (and I have to thank Narga for helping me straighten up a few factors). I'm still quite unsure I could convince anyone, thus why I'll hold back for now.

Yes, most obviously my biggest problem.

A simple Speed or Str proc solves that problem (of which getting either on a level is pretty big). However, if I can also prove enemy density being significantly sparce enough, him dying even under doubling should not pose much a problem as surviving wouldn't be that hard (I got doubled, yet no one else is around...).

Or, you could forge her an iron axe instead of waiting that long to use a resource (and is also a competitor with Volug).

Yet it doesn't stop people from blowing it out of proportion, does it? I'm not even asking for forges, just the energy drop really. But again, I'm gonna lay off until I'm far more certain that my argument is concrete.

I didn't see it anywhere,so could you please explain the benefit of giving Ed the drop?