OMG it's a tier list

[-Cynthia-]

Edward definitely becomes an unecessary team member after 1-5. The thing is that Aran does too, and Aran was worse in 1-4 and possibly 1-3 and 1-5 as well (Eddie has some doubling and Aran's Str/Def growths don't matter).

Training Aran gives us a better unit for 3-6 and 3-13, Eddie is better for Part 4. Aran might be better for late Part 1 though, a lot of it depends on how Eddie's Spd goes (though BEXP works nicely on Edward, he caps stats easily).

Personally I've found ways to make Edward useful in 3-13 as well (Nolan support+ Resolve w/Wrath allowed me a 3 turn Ike kill clear), but I did give Edward a lot of favoritism and it was RNG reliant.

[RNG Princess]

Aran needs to be spoon fed as well. He has good defense but it doesn't make up for it as soon as fighters start doubling and killing him or mages start aiming at him in 1-7 and he can't double them right back, I recall him never doubling anything during my playthrough. I do agree Aran being two tiers above is Edward is pretty odd.

[grandjackal]

Edward definitely becomes an unecessary team member after 1-5. The thing is that Aran does too, and Aran was worse in 1-4 and possibly 1-3 and 1-5 as well (Eddie has some doubling and Aran's Str/Def growths don't matter).

Training Aran gives us a better unit for 3-6 and 3-13, Eddie is better for Part 4.

Yet there inlies the question. Is training Aran for Part 3 any more woth it than Eddie for part 4? If the answer is no, why is Aran so much higher above Eddie despite contributing less. If so, how effective is he? Cause I doubt he's on Nolan/Jill levels to show he was any more worth the effort. What of WrathxResolvexCancel Eddie with Caladbolg, or Thani+Beastslayer Sothe/Miccy combo? I think it can be asily shown you don't need to be defensive to play out 3-6. Not sure about 3-12, but I honestly think 3-6 is constantly overrated.

Aran might be better for late Part 1 though, a lot of it depends on how Eddie's Spd goes (though BEXP works nicely on Edward, he caps stats easily).

I found that more troublesome was acc, since I had more than one way to get the offense. If I'm training Aran or Eddie up, I'd want them to land the hit. While you have more leeway with how much chipping is needed for Aran to finish something, Eddie's not only garunteed to not miss (you can forge acc and might to Aran's forge to make him hit, but I could forge might and crit on Eddie's forges to make him more competent on his own) moreso than Aran, but Eddie on top of that can still double some things (not all things, but enough to count), has natural Wrath (if you keep it on him), and more crit to work with.

If I'm to be concerned with anyone's speed, I'd be concerned with Aran's. Specifically, how often is this guy getting doubled? How often do enemies have crit chance on him?

[quoet]Personally I've found ways to make Edward useful in 3-13 as well (Nolan support+ Resolve w/Wrath allowed me a 3 turn Ike kill clear), but I did give Edward a lot of favoritism and it was RNG reliant.

You could have also fit Cancel with that WrathxResolve combo, attacking with Caladbolg to further increase your chances of not taking a counter, which could actually save you a Sleep use.

[-Cynthia-]

I used Cancel with the Brave Sword actually.

Meh, Aran's accuracy isn't really an issue if we give him a proper forge like we can for Eddie. Except for fighting at 1-2 range and in 1-3.

[grandjackal]

I used Cancel with the Brave Sword actually.

EDIT: Math fail on my part, gears in my head clicked weirdly.

Meh, Aran's accuracy isn't really an issue if we give him a proper forge like we can for Eddie. Except for fighting at 1-2 range and in 1-3.

It is when Eddie's forge has crit to make him a better fighter while Aran has to forge his just to not whiff. Eddie's still got the better forge.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Master Tang

[Renall]

Yes, I'm sure that Volug desperately desires that 1 EXP he gets from every single enemy in Part 1. Without that EXP, he won't be able to take advantage of his great HP and Luck growths, and he'll suck in Part 3! And we all know how good Aran is, too!

Volug still wants to make attacks. You know, for Strike level. That's like gaining several points of STR all by itself, if he can get it. And if he doesn't get it before Part 3, at least it helps him get it sooner therein. Who cares how much exp he's earning?

[dondon151]

Update: Volug made 17 attacks in 1-5, 8 attacks in 1-6-1, and 14 attacks in 1-6-2. WEXP is thus 39/70 to S strike.

If you're curious, turncounts for those 3 maps were 6, 4, 2, respectively.

[grandjackal]

Seems then reasonable that he gets S strike at least somewhere in 1-E, the soonest at least. You have a bit more time, and 1-8 where he starts with Rafiel and Nailah's help give him further strike training, seems simple enough considering you're already more than halfway.

But...I suppose I'll just have to wait and see.

[Anouleth]

I had Volug reach S Strike in 1-8, personally.

Not that it matters. Before S Strike, Volug struggles to 2HKO many enemies without the Energy Drop, so generally you can have him weaken an enemy and gain WEXP then finish with a Nolan/Jill/Edward/Aran.

[RNG Princess]

I had Volug reach S Strike in 1-8, personally.

Not that it matters. Before S Strike, Volug struggles to 2HKO many enemies without the Energy Drop, so generally you can have him weaken an enemy and gain WEXP then finish with a Nolan/Jill/Edward/Aran.

Volug is still useful with A srike in 3-6. Its good to have him at least close to S strike before 3-6.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Anouleth]

Well, to be frank, 31mt in 3-6 sucks. 3HKOes Cats, and what, a 5HKO on Tigers? Even doubling everything, he struggles to rise above Aran-level offense. 36mt is a lot cooler, since it lets him 1-round. And it goes up to 64mt with Beastfoe. OHKOes Cats. I guess if you gave him the Energy Drop and a Micaiah support, you could have 70mt and OHKO the weakest Tigers, and a strength proc lets him OHKO all of them. Not that great, though. Although if you did that, he'd have 14+14x3+2 = 58mt. OHKOes Cats, even when untransformed.

[RNG Princess]

Well, to be frank, 31mt in 3-6 sucks. 3HKOes Cats, and what, a 5HKO on Tigers? Even doubling everything, he struggles to rise above Aran-level offense. 36mt is a lot cooler, since it lets him 1-round. And it goes up to 64mt with Beastfoe. OHKOes Cats. I guess if you gave him the Energy Drop and a Micaiah support, you could have 70mt and OHKO the weakest Tigers, and a strength proc lets him OHKO all of them. Not that great, though. Although if you did that, he'd have 14+14x3+2 = 58mt. OHKOes Cats, even when untransformed.

In my playthrough Volug with A-strike in 3-6 took wrath and resolve, I'd rather leave beastfoe on Nolan since he OHKO's everything and gains better experience. Of course Volug got S strike after like 4 or 5 hits on turn 3 iirc, I think its good enough to at least have him close to S strike in Part 1.

[grandjackal]

Well, to be frank, 31mt in 3-6 sucks. 3HKOes Cats, and what, a 5HKO on Tigers? Even doubling everything, he struggles to rise above Aran-level offense. 36mt is a lot cooler, since it lets him 1-round. And it goes up to 64mt with Beastfoe. OHKOes Cats. I guess if you gave him the Energy Drop and a Micaiah support, you could have 70mt and OHKO the weakest Tigers, and a strength proc lets him OHKO all of them. Not that great, though. Although if you did that, he'd have 14+14x3+2 = 58mt. OHKOes Cats, even when untransformed.

Yet weirdly enough, a 21 Str Aran with an offense support (like Leo), Beastfoe and a steel forge, it would come to a total of 68 might. Considering his Str growth and that he's leveling faster (especially if we compared growth), Aran would slowly eck out a lead...If it weren't for the fact that Volug doubles.

[Anouleth]

Yet weirdly enough, a 21 Str Aran with an offense support (like Leo), Beastfoe and a steel forge, it would come to a total of 68 might. Considering his Str growth and that he's leveling faster (especially if we compared growth), Aran would slowly eck out a lead...If it weren't for the fact that Volug doubles.

Well, Volug has other advantages. Almost twice as much proc rate on Vantage, arguably better durability, unarguably better avoid, can take Resolve or Paragon in addition to Beastfoe, and is working towards SS Strike. Plus, Aran has difficulty even reaching level 20/01 for 21STR, although I guess he doesn't need that level to OHKO Cats.

[RNG Princess]

I think Zihark should move below Nolan. His experience gain in Part 1 is small and his defense slows him down in part 3. Meanwhile Nolan is good for Part 1 and he's better for Part 3 and 4 with his +5def axe he won't be facing many durability issues compared to Zihark.

[Zkirsche]

Does anyone know if you can rescue Micaiah in 3-13 then take her OUT of the zone with the rescued unit?

[Integrity]

I'm moderately positive that Micaiah can't even be rescued in that chapter, much like 1-9.

[Fenrir]

I think Zihark should move below Nolan. His experience gain in Part 1 is small and his defense slows him down in part 3. Meanwhile Nolan is good for Part 1 and he's better for Part 3 and 4 with his +5def axe he won't be facing many durability issues compared to Zihark.

That's an interesting point, but zihark is never not durable, partially because he's an earth. but zihark overall is awesome, i was never to high on him until my current PT where he is owning everything, if zihark had a bit more def, he might actually be > volug.

Does anybody else think SMs are truly amazing? mia/ed/zihark are some of my favorite characters, on my current PT I'm actually gonna use...lucia XP

[RNG Princess]

I'm moderately positive that Micaiah can't even be rescued in that chapter, much like 1-9.

she can't I tried

[Interceptor]

Zihark is not durable until Part 4, and even then not unless he piggybacks onto an army that has some authority stars (like wtfTibarn and his +20 free avoid). Being an Earth affinity character doesn't help him, largely because he can't even be expected to establish a C rank until 1-7, thus B-rank by 3-6. And in 3-6, facing enemies with 130-140+ HIT, while getting 2HKO'ed, forget about it. Even when he gets A-rank by 3-13, Ike's authority stars completely wipe out the gains.

[RNG Princess]

Zihark is not durable until Part 4, and even then not unless he piggybacks onto an army that has some authority stars (like wtfTibarn and his +20 free avoid). Being an Earth affinity character doesn't help him, largely because he can't even be expected to establish a C rank until 1-7, thus B-rank by 3-6. And in 3-6, facing enemies with 130-140+ HIT, while getting 2HKO'ed, forget about it. Even when he gets A-rank by 3-13, Ike's authority stars completely wipe out the gains.

You can throw Parity on him for 3-13 but its better use on Jill or Nolan.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Interceptor]

Throw parity on Zihark for 3-13 to counter the authority stars, and he loses his support bonuses. It's lose/lose for him.

[RNG Princess]

Throw parity on Zihark for 3-13 to counter the authority stars, and he loses his support bonuses. It's lose/lose for him.

Thats true :/ poor Zihark.

[Shadow Mir]

Does anybody else think SMs are truly amazing? mia/ed/zihark are some of my favorite characters, on my current PT I'm actually gonna use...lucia XP

To be honest, I hate Edward with the fury of an angry god. At any rate, this game isn't exactly the place I'd be looking to find truly amazing swordmasters.

[RNG Princess]

To be honest, I hate Edward with the fury of an angry god. At any rate, this game isn't exactly the place I'd be looking to find truly amazing swordmasters.

I thought Mia was considered an "amazing swordmaster"