Do you find someone's race a turn-off?

[Esau of Isaac]

Nope. As stated multiple times, I know I'm a bit racist because of my personal experiences.

I can't back up opinion with facts because there are no facts on behavior for an entire race. You should know that. Every person is different, but I chose to less trusting because the majority of them harass me.

I am just explaining why my opinions are like this.

Then you're willingly adhering to a hateful viewpoint whilst knowing that it is ignorant and incorrect. I don't know how that can be held by any reasonable person. If you acknowledge that your viewpoint is factually wrong and still keep it, then I agree, conversation is likely futile.

[Yuli]

Well of course I'm going to stick with my opinion. It doesn't mean it's "incorrect" nor "ignorant" though.

It's an opinion. There's no wrong nor right. I know perfectly well what I'm stating. I'm not lacking any information on why my opinion is "wrong".

[Defeatist Elitist]

Well of course I'm going to stick with my opinion. It doesn't mean it's "incorrect" nor "ignorant" though.

It's an opinion. There's no wrong nor right. I know perfectly well what I'm stating. I'm not lacking any information on why my opinion is "wrong".

So if it's my "opinion" (finger quotes there) that, say, all people who like to wear sandals are evil, lying, hateful, violent people, and that they should be rounded up and shot, then I'm not wrong? Sorry, but that's pretty crazy.

[YokaiKnight]

Now we're calling Yuli hopeless and hateful? As I recall, her original statements claimed that she was turned off by black strangers because they invaded her personal space frequently. That's nowhere near thinking they're "evil, lying, hateful, violent people, and that they should be rounded up and shot," or "ignorant and incorrect," . She did not imply that they did this because they were black, like a lot of you seem to think she said. It's all personal experience, which while understandably flawed is not worthless.

My opinions isn't based on the media. I got my opinions because they act that way here.

I know I'm a bit racist. After my experience with mostly obnoxious black people, I'm a bit less trusting to them.

This is totally freaking natural. We can all say "harumph u shud be the biggr prson do not hate em all jsut cuz lots u met are luzrs," but deriving stereotypes of people from past experience with them is not inherently corrupt, and in some contexts is encouraged.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Now we're calling Yuli hopeless and hateful? As I recall, her original statements claimed that she was turned off by black strangers because they invaded her personal space frequently. That's nowhere near thinking they're "evil, lying, hateful, violent people, and that they should be rounded up and shot," or "ignorant and incorrect," . She did not imply that they did this because they were black, like a lot of you seem to think she said. It's all personal experience, which while understandably flawed is not worthless.

I was exaggerating. I'm just pointing out the flaws in her point. Her point seems to be *now* that being racist is fine because it's her opinion, and her opinion cannot be wrong. Which is what I was responding to.

[Yuli]

There's no wrong nor right! It's an opinion. It was posted on my last post. I never said it was right. I admited I was being racist. I was giving reasons why I acted that way.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Yuli

[Phoenix]

Still doesn't explain why Phoenix is more attracted to animals though xDDDD

They don't bitch & complain as much as guys do. Ironic huh?

Racism? Ah I think we're all just alittle in favor of one race more than others, or less for a race than all others. Probably our own, except me cause I have no race. I'm just a mut. My point is that this... If you have racial preferences, sexual or otherwise, it's no big deal. If there's a particular race of people you don't like, who cares? It's not like just because some jackass doesn't like jews he's going to be responsible for the deaths of thousands of them in the end.(Ignore Hitler okay? Sheesh.) Like my great teachers say: "Everything in moderation." That goes for racial issues too. If you don't like a particular race, fine, just don't linch'em, speak out against them like the KKK does, and definitely don't bitch about them on forums and you're doing fine.

Oh and what's with the trash talkers on Xbox live? Jews, gays, and virgins. If you're one of these you suck? Oh well, a 50.Cal headshot from across the map'll shut'em up for awhile B)

[Esau of Isaac]

Well of course I'm going to stick with my opinion. It doesn't mean it's "incorrect" nor "ignorant" though.

It's an opinion. There's no wrong nor right. I know perfectly well what I'm stating. I'm not lacking any information on why my opinion is "wrong".

Distrusting others based on the pigmentation of their skin is pretty damn ignorant, unless you can provide a reason as to why skin color means anything in such situations.

[Phoenix]

Distrusting others based on the pigmentation of their skin is pretty damn ignorant, unless you can provide a reason as to why skin color means anything in such situations.

I have the same problem actually. I only trust a certain skin color while all others go untrusted for a time.

This problem also goes hand in hand with a particular race & gender... :P

[Yuli]

Distrusting others based on the pigmentation of their skin is pretty damn ignorant, unless you can provide a reason as to why skin color means anything in such situations.

Have you not read my posts? I've posted my reason many times. I will post it once more.

Majority of black people harass me. For this reason, I am less trusting towards them. I don't hate them. I just don't trust them on the first sight.

That's not ignorant. I'm not lacking any common sense. It's just that I'm assuming too soon, but I have my reasons why I act like this.

[Esau of Isaac]

Have you not read my posts? I've posted my reason many times. I will post it once more.

Majority of black people harass me. For this reason, I am less trusting towards them. I don't hate them. I just don't trust them on the first sight.

That's not ignorant. I'm not lacking any common sense. It's just that I'm assuming too soon, but I have my reasons why I act like this.

And allow me to restate my view; distrusting someone more than another based upon their skin color is ignorant, and makes no sense.

Sorry for me to categorize racism as ignorant, my bad.

[Yuli]

Since when did skin color come into play? Let's say there's a dark-skinned Mexican, Asian, or whatever. I'm likely to be more trustful toward them more than black people. Same with light-skinned people. I'm pretty sure you know the reason why.

Or are you mending skin color and race into one subject?

If so, I'll have to repeat myself.

Copy-and-paste! ;D

Majority of black people harass me. For this reason, I am less trusting towards them. I don't hate them. I just don't trust them on the first sight.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Have you not read my posts? I've posted my reason many times. I will post it once more.

Majority of black people harass me. For this reason, I am less trusting towards them. I don't hate them. I just don't trust them on the first sight.

That's not ignorant. I'm not lacking any common sense. It's just that I'm assuming too soon, but I have my reasons why I act like this.

It is. It is. It is.

For all of you people who weep because of how I talk about opinion in FE, now can you see why I do it? :P It is ignorant and lacking in common sense to assume that someone is worse because of their skin color, because there is no evidence to support it. Skin pigmentation is in no real way connected to any other traits.

[Phoenix]

Gosh guys calm down. It's a gut reaction to past experiences. Not ignorance. Learn the difference.

[Yuli]

I have my reason why I acted this way. It's like instinct.

For example, I've been harass by black people many times. It's natural for me to feel uneasy when I'm near them because I've been harassed by many people of the same race.

That's not ignorant. It's not lacking common sense at all.

I'll explain with another example.

Let's say you've been bitten by dogs many times before for reasons not at your fault. When a dog gets near you, it's natural for you to step away or avoid it all together because you've been bitten many times before.

Now, don't assume I'm mending dogs and black people into one because I'm not. I'm not low enough to call an entire race "dogs".

Edited December 26, 2008 by Yuli

[Florete]

Now we're calling Yuli hopeless and hateful? As I recall, her original statements claimed that she was turned off by black strangers because they invaded her personal space frequently. That's nowhere near thinking they're "evil, lying, hateful, violent people, and that they should be rounded up and shot," or "ignorant and incorrect," . She did not imply that they did this because they were black, like a lot of you seem to think she said. It's all personal experience, which while understandably flawed is not worthless.

This is totally freaking natural. We can all say "harumph u shud be the biggr prson do not hate em all jsut cuz lots u met are luzrs," but deriving stereotypes of people from past experience with them is not inherently corrupt, and in some contexts is encouraged.

Yeah, I have to agree here. From my point of view, Yuli's position is completely natural. If a group of people with a distinguishable characteristic to them, black people in this case, is constantly harassing someone, doesn't it make sense that that person will naturally be less trusting towards them? It doesn't have to be black people either. It can be Asians, or Jews, or Monks, or any group distinguishable in that way. It doesn't mean that that person will go around saying "Jews are all terrible people that should burn in hell for all eternity," it just means that person will have a different view on them and probably won't be comfortable being around them.

It's like Florina's allergic reaction to all men.

It is ignorant and lacking in common sense to assume that someone is worse because of their skin color, because there is no evidence to support it.

Where did she say black people are inferior? I missed that.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I'm not necessarily reacting to that, but her general tone, and posts made in this topic.

She's said she doesn't trust Black People as much as other people. Maybe this doesn't get to you guys, but that is racism. It doesn't matter if you have a billion reasons. I'll go back and try to find some of those posts though.

[Yuli]

I've admit a couple of times that I know I'm a bit racist because of it. I'm not denying that.

Read!

Edited December 26, 2008 by Yuli

[Phoenix]

THEN I'M RACIST, cause I fit into this definition, just like you and everyone else.

We learn somethin new everyday :D

[Florete]

I'm not necessarily reacting to that, but her general tone, and posts made in this topic.

She's said she doesn't trust Black People as much as other people. Maybe this doesn't get to you guys, but that is racism. It doesn't matter if you have a billion reasons. I'll go back and try to find some of those posts though.

From what she's said, I hardly find it surprising. Hell, I don't even think I'd call it racism at all, as long as she isn't insulting black people as a whole, which, from what I've seen, she isn't.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I've admit a couple of times that I know I'm a bit racist because of it. I'm not denying that.

Read!

Oh come on, I'm really trying to be civil, but please don't stretch it.

I have read everything you've said in this thread. Multiple times. However, when it was pointed out that your racism was completely ignorant, you seemed to take issue with it. Racism however, is ignorance. What we're trying to say is that your racism is based on, well, nothing, other than the fact that Black people have harassed you in the past, which is not a valid reason.

[Yuli]

There is no "valid reason" for an opinion. It's an opinion.

How about you give me an example of a "valid reason"? I would like to see what is "valid" and what isn't "valid" for racism.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Yuli

[Florete]

Oh come on, I'm really trying to be civil, but please don't stretch it.

I have read everything you've said in this thread. Multiple times. However, when it was pointed out that your racism was completely ignorant, you seemed to take issue with it. Racism however, is ignorance. What we're trying to say is that your racism is based on, well, nothing, other than the fact that Black people have harassed you in the past, which is not a valid reason.

What the fuck? I mean, I'm not racist, but if I were ever to consider there to be a valid reason to be racist, it would be that one. A specific group of people has been harassing you your entire life. I would have to ask, how can you fully trust them? You may know it isn't exactly right to distrust them based off of that one aspect, but it's just in your nature at this point because of what's happened to you because of them.

[Defeatist Elitist]

What the fuck? I mean, I'm not racist, but if I were ever to consider there to be a valid reason to be racist, it would be that one. A specific group of people has been harassing you your entire life. I would have to ask, how can you fully trust them? You may know it isn't exactly right to distrust them based off of that one aspect, but it's just in your nature at this point because of what's happened to you because of them.

But that's the thing, there is no valid reason to be racist.

I think this is going to be a long explanation, perhaps going to the root of racism. It's not as obvious as it may seem. First of all, no matter how harmless Yuli's stuff may seem, or how you might think her beliefs are justifiable, this is the same general manner that, say, KKK members go about "justifying" their beliefs. It's not too far of a stretch. In addition, as soon as you have a stereotype, any stereotype in your head, people will begin living up to that stereotype. You having that stereotype will mean that you will unconsciously see people in that stereotype. It's not necessarily her in particular, but the whole thought process. I mean, take Essau's pants example. Or even better, this one, which is true:

I grew up in a sour cream white community. Pretty much the only black guy I knew, and definitely the only one I had much contact with it WAS A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FUCKING ASSHOLE. But I realized that it was the individual. It's not at all representative of other people who look similar.

I guess my problem isn't that she has these tendencies, it's that she's DEFENDING them as reasonable. I mean, yes, many people will have bias and think about others stereotypically, but when it's pointed out, you shouldn't just say "Yeah, I know I'm racist, but guess what, I've justified it to myself and don't feel like trying to change."

[Florete]

But that's the thing, there is no valid reason to be racist.

I think this is going to be a long explanation, perhaps going to the root of racism. It's not as obvious as it may seem. First of all, no matter how harmless Yuli's stuff may seem, or how you might think her beliefs are justifiable, this is the same general manner that, say, KKK members go about "justifying" their beliefs. It's not too far of a stretch. In addition, as soon as you have a stereotype, any stereotype in your head, people will begin living up to that stereotype. You having that stereotype will mean that you will unconsciously see people in that stereotype. It's not necessarily her in particular, but the whole thought process. I mean, take Essau's pants example. Or even better, this one, which is true:

I grew up in a sour cream white community. Pretty much the only black guy I knew, and definitely the only one I had much contact with it WAS A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FUCKING ASSHOLE. But I realized that it was the individual. It's not at all representative of other people who look similar.

I guess my problem isn't that she has these tendencies, it's that she's DEFENDING them as reasonable. I mean, yes, many people will have bias and think about others stereotypically, but when it's pointed out, you shouldn't just say "Yeah, I know I'm racist, but guess what, I've justified it to myself and don't feel like trying to change."

It probably isn't very easy for her to change. Give her a break, you don't know what happened to her after all. And again, she never insulted them or said she thought that they are in any way inferior to others, just that she generally distrusts them. In a way, it's like drug use. People know it's bad and they shouldn't be doing it so much, but they can't stop, as much as they may want to.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Red Fox of Fire