Minimodding

[YokaiKnight]

I don't recall the rules saying not to tell people to follow them.

Cynthia makes a good point which pretty much invalidates my last report. Can we have some kind of rule against minimodding? e.g. "get back on topic," "stop trying to troll, troll, or you shall be reported," and similar posts which are generally annoying coming from people who aren't staff.

[lolDeath]

I would like to take this chance to mention that every time I have quoted a rule to a staff member (every time that I can remember at least) I have been told that they are not rules, but guidelines. This would not do any good.

[YokaiKnight]

Er, how does that make this ineffective? I think I'm missing something.

[lolDeath]

Guidelines and rules are quite different, guidelines are more loose and open to be enforced on a whim. Though the staff has been getting pretty good about just enforcing them as rules lately barring racism, sexism, and other such things.

[YokaiKnight]

I see your point. I did deliberately use the word rule in my post, however.

For the record, I think racism, sexism, etc. should stay under "guideline" territory, because those are issues of opinion, not behavior.

[lolDeath]

I don't want this to be completely derailed so first I will address your original point. A rule against minimodding would be fine, but the staff acts on it regardless so it would actually make them look quite a bit more professional. I'm all for it provided they don't go Nazi on us over minor corrections.

And on the issue of racism, sexism and all that noise, yes they are opinions, but I don't think they belong outside of topics actually tied to those issues.

[Cynthia]

So we need a rule that says you can't tell people to follow the rules or to read them? Only a staff member can?

Edit: Either way, as of now it's just some unwritten policy the staff has, as useless as it is. I refuse to follow something that isn't written down, or has an announcement about it. How would newcommers or anyone else know about it? They wouldn't. You shouldn't get in trouble for a rule that you have no way of knowing about.

Edited December 25, 2008 by Cynthia

[YokaiKnight]

So we need a rule that says you can't tell people to follow the rules or to read them? Only a staff member can?

Yep.

Edit: Either way, as of now it's just some unwritten policy the staff has, as useless as it is. I refuse to follow something that isn't written down, or has an announcement about it. How would newcommers or anyone else know about it? They wouldn't. You shouldn't get in trouble for a rule that you have no way of knowing about.

That's fair.

[Cynthia]

I'm more upset that the staff seem to be able to enforce rules that some of us have no way of knowing about.

[Der Kommissar]

Minimodding rules aren't specified on some forums, but they are rarely absent. Minimodding only pisses the deviant off.

Edited December 25, 2008 by Der Kommissar

[Rei]

minimodding is really annoying, there really should be something about it just because of it. If more people used the REPORT button instead of posting trying to be a mini-mod, then the mods would do their jobs faster since they would know where to go.

[lolDeath]

But what about the rule infractions so minor that the staff won't bother with them? I think a member taking 5 seconds to explain that a rule is being broken is better than completely ignoring it and waiting for the snowball effect.

[Cynthia]

minimodding is really annoying, there really should be something about it just because of it. If more people used the REPORT button instead of posting trying to be a mini-mod, then the mods would do their jobs faster since they would know where to go.

I report every post that is breaking the rules, then explain to the user what rule is broken to prevent them from breaking it further, as a lot of people who join don't even read them.

I see no harm in that, and putting a rule in place is pointless, just because it "annoys," some user. Really it does more help than harm. It cuts some of the work for the staff, and encourages members to inform people of the rules and be good role models.

[Ϲharlie]

I honestly don't trust most people to be able to properly correct mistakes. A member who improperly represents the rules is bound to cause more harm than good, no matter how good their intentions may have been.

[lolDeath]

Which is why you only punish the counterproductive minimods. =o

[YokaiKnight]

Which is why you only punish the counterproductive minimods. =o

I know it's a slippery slope argument, but picking and choosing who is thought of as a "good" minimod frequently leads to favoritism and all kinds of "HOW COME HE CAN SAY THAT" shit, etc. If someone seems to be really good at being at moderating, hopefully they'll become a moderator.

I see no harm in that, and putting a rule in place is pointless, just because it "annoys," some user.

Some users.

Really it does more help than harm. It cuts some of the work for the staff, and encourages members to inform people of the rules and be good role models.

Ideally it would, and cases where someone helpfully pointing out a rule are not rare by any measure, but on SF I've much more often seen either the "offender" or others in the thread sidetracked or annoyed by minimodding than show a sign of appreciation. It doesn't work here.

[lolDeath]

I know it's a slippery slope argument, but picking and choosing who is thought of as a "good" minimod frequently leads to favoritism and all kinds of "HOW COME HE CAN SAY THAT" shit, etc. If someone seems to be really good at being at moderating, hopefully they'll become a moderator.

I believe you misunderstand me, I'll use an example.

User 1: [insert hopefully insightful on topic contribution here] and also [minimodomfgworldisover]

User 2: hey u need 2 stop spamin kid

Punish user 2, let user 1 roll with it. I mean maybe this won't work here, it all depends on how much you baby your members.

[YokaiKnight]

That makes perfect sense, but that's easy mode. The decision's not always that clear.

[Cynthia]

I honestly don't trust most people to be able to properly correct mistakes. A member who improperly represents the rules is bound to cause more harm than good, no matter how good their intentions may have been.

That is rather insulting to those of us in the member base who know right from wrong an have a clean record with no warns or suspensions. What reason do you have to doubt those of us who keep and maintain a clean record?

[YokaiKnight]

I don't think Musashi doubts you all, but thinks there are enough bad apples who spoil the bunch. If that's how that saying goes. Is it bunch or something else?

EDIT: My apologies for speaking for other people.

Edited December 28, 2008 by YokaiKnight

[Cynthia]

I don't think Musashi doubts you all, but thinks there are enough bad apples who spoil the bunch. If that's how that saying goes. Is it bunch or something else?

EDIT: My apologies for speaking for other people.

I don't think it's quite fair that ONCE AGAIN the bad members ruin it for the rest of us. We keep bending to make sure that no bad members get punished or scolded, when some NEED to be...

[Metal Rabbit]

Hmm... what should I do...

I could call the staff lazy, but that'll just get me yelled at and it won't get anywhere.

It's extreme, and I know I'll be ignored for some stupid biased reason, but I'd just focus on punishing the users you know are the ones causing the trouble, rather than waste time with a silly rule, and argue with members about them.

I learned in my driver's ed class that cops can pull you over and give you a ticket even though there isn't a specific law against whatever you're doing. As long as they believe you're a potential threat to others on the road, it's illegal. A malleable rule for sheer jackassery is what we need. Wait a minute... isn't that trolling?

So... extending the trolling clause so you can cut down on the other weird laws... hmm. It'd work as long as the staff didn't abuse it, and if they did then that's when I stop coming here for good.

[YokaiKnight]

We keep bending to make sure that no bad members get punished or scolded, when some NEED to be...

We do? As far as I see, there's just a lot of blind eyes turned towards crap, but I haven't noticed a trend. But I only joined in October, so IDK.

[Cynthia]

I think Metal Arc makes a valid point. Most of the ones we have to worry about are actually trolling and not minimodding. I think the staff should work on being able to differentiate the two.

[Defeatist Elitist]

In addition, what if we, say, want to steer a topic back on track, but don't want to Report it for being off topic? Reported things tend to get locked much faster than non reported things, and if you don't really want a topic locked, then it's a bit of a hassle. It would be kind of silly sending a report to a Mod that said "Hey, can you post here and tell them to get back on topic", when you could just as easily post saying something like "Hey guys, we should probably head back towards the topic now."