Hard Mode: 3-6 problems

[dondon151]

If you want to look good in a debate, you should address them as correct, not ignore nearly all of the post and only address the parts which you are capable of.

It's a waste of space. I think it goes without saying that if one doesn't object, then he doesn't bring it up?

In a hard mode playthrough people generally pair up Zihark and Nolan for the most efficiency. Micaiah and Sothe are paired up together anyways. Aran is rarely going to dodge anything either way. Leonardo? No need for avoid. Edward is generally used in place of Zihark, not used together. Jill does things by herself so she shouldn't get a support. Volug is the only one, but I don't think he will be used seriously.

Volug's not being used seriously? He's high tier for a reason (NM or not). These pairings aren't always assumed, but I'll agree that they're likely. And even if Jill's doing stuff by herself, a support is better than no support. I find that there's not much for Jill to be doing in the part 3 DB maps anyway, and sending her off by her lonesome makes it easy to get her killed.

I'm saying you should.

Oops, looks like my inferencing abilities aren't up to par either.

Are you serious? I made a claim, you replied to it, I replied back.

You made the claim.

[Seph]

It's a waste of space. I think it goes without saying that if one doesn't object, then he doesn't bring it up?

A waste of space? If so then why does this occur in every debate in the debate board?

Volug's not being used seriously? He's high tier for a reason (NM or not). These pairings aren't always assumed, but I'll agree that they're likely. And even if Jill's doing stuff by herself, a support is better than no support. I find that there's not much for Jill to be doing in the part 3 DB maps anyway, and sending her off by her lonesome makes it easy to get her killed.

Volug helps a lot earlygame. He doesn't get enough exp and when Part 3 comes he just becomes really weak, he can't one round anything while Nolan, Zihark or Eddie and Sothe can. Heck, he takes more damage than he does. And also because he has a cool affinity. That's why he's so high up.

Jill shouldn't be getting a support. She will have a hard time getting one. She'll be flying around during her own stuff.

In 3-6, 3-12 and 3-13 Jill should be killing and running away, she'll rarely be a target of the enemy units. She doesn't need a support. She needs an avoid support the least. Supporting two Earth users is generally more efficient than supporting a flyer and an Earth user.. A good user of a wyvern does this. Wyverns are good at surprise attacks. In Thracia 776, Dean says this. Jill just doesn't need a support. It's the same reason why most people don't support Haar.

Also, don't forget, Zihark is really fragile and he has penis luck. So he needs that avoid support, it makes him MUCH more efficient. It also makes Part 4 easier. Jill is not fragile. Nolan can't dodge anything in hard mode so he will need it too. Zihark is almost useless without the support, but when he gets it, he's just amazing.

My point is, if you're using Nolan and Zihark together, the chances of them having only a C support are VERY unlikely. They should have an A or B support.

Oops, looks like my inferencing abilities aren't up to par either.

Are you kidding me? I made a whole explanation here..

There are 4 chapters for an A support. Easily a B support.

In a hard mode playthrough people generally pair up Zihark and Nolan for the most efficiency. Micaiah and Sothe are paired up together anyways. Aran is rarely going to dodge anything either way. Leonardo? No need for avoid. Edward is generally used in place of Zihark, not used together. Jill does things by herself so she shouldn't get a support. Volug is the only one, but I don't think he will be used seriously.

Are you suggesting that I didn't?

You made the claim.

I made the claim but I never debated. You wanted to debate, I replied back.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Julius

[dondon151]

A waste of space? If so then why does this occur in every debate in the debate board?

This isn't the debate board, and I'm kind of lazy?

Volug helps a lot earlygame. He doesn't get enough exp and when Part 3 comes he just becomes really weak, he can't one round anything while Nolan, Zihark or Eddie and Sothe can. Heck, he takes more damage than he does. And also because he has a cool affinity. That's why he's so high up.

I showed in the tiers topic why this is false.

Jill shouldn't be getting a support. She will have a hard time getting one. She'll be flying around during her own stuff.

In 3-6, 3-12 and 3-13 Jill should be killing and running away, she'll rarely be a target of the enemy units. She doesn't need a support. She needs an avoid support the least. Supporting two Earth users is generally more efficient than supporting a flyer and an Earth user.. A good user of a wyvern does this. Wyverns are good at surprise attacks. In Thracia 776, Dean says this. Jill just doesn't need a support. It's the same reason why most people don't support Haar.

Jill's durability really isn't that good. You can try making her hit and run, but she'll still take counterattacks (she also can't one-round) and will need to return to the group fairly often to get healed. Let's match her with Volug - similar movement, +2 Def and +30 Avo. Not to mention, if Jill fails to one-round, she will not have enough move to run away.

Dean's right - wyverns (or fliers in general) are good at surprise attacks. Wyverns. Jill by herself is not very good at all.

Also, don't forget, Zihark is really fragile and he has penis luck. So he needs that avoid support, it makes him MUCH more efficient. It also makes Part 4 easier. Jill is not fragile. Nolan can't dodge anything in hard mode so he will need it too. Zihark is almost useless without the support, but when he gets it, he's just amazing.

Jill's HP is terrible. Any character makes good use of +30 Avo or +45 Avo. If Zihark is almost useless without an earth support, then he must not be a very good character!

My point is, if you're using Nolan and Zihark together, the chances of them having only a C support are VERY unlikely. They should have an A or B support.

I should agree with this. The TC himself may not have prepared NolanxZihark A or B though, which is what I said in the first place (this somehow turned into a blanket statement ?_?)

Are you kidding me? I made a whole explanation here..

Are you suggesting that I didn't?

Your point was "if you don't have A or B Zihark and Nolan, you should be able to take those tigers as long as you don't charge/kill them in a single round, but you can stay at the north." You were assuming NolanxZihark C.

I made the claim but I never debated. You wanted to debate, I replied back.

No, actually you disagreed with Mekkah's suggestion. You wanted to debate.

[PuffPuff]

Micaiah and Sothe are mandatory, so they want exp.

Nolan and Zihark are just amazing together, and they should be trained.

People like using Jill too, and she needs exp a lot since she has poor availability.

Not if you have Haar talk to her in 3-7. Jill will have trouble catching up without bonus EXP.

FE lacks challenge.

Don't be a hotshot. Try the FE games WITHOUT restarting, nah won't work. Try the games using only female units..since they have lower Str caps.

No exp, needed on HM, and if Sothe is ganged up on then he'll die easily.

A tiger will 2hko Sothe, and cats are very accurate. That strategy is impractical. Tigers have like 50% hit on him, even with Micaiah support.

I would support Zihark with Volug, as you would want to support Nolan with Micaiah and break her support with Sothe, because Nolan would offer her more avoid. Very useful as most of the light tomes other than Light and Thani are weighing her down.

Hey, I read somwhere that people give Volug beastfoe and kill many ennemy in the east while untransformed, does that work?Because since I scrapped some of my character I was thinking of using Volug to get me out of this shit.

Volug doesn't need beastfoe. Someone like Jill should get it. Sothe can use Beastslayers; and that only Rogues/Whispers can use them.

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I would just form a pyramid to have Micaiah and Laura protected pitting Sothe up north along with Jill, and putting Zihark and Nolan to the east. Zihark doesn't really need to be supported to get good either. He gets good enough dodge without it.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Laylea

[Lord Raven]

Nope, FE's still easy without resetting much. You just have to get rid of your OCD for restarting when a character dies.

Ranked can be a challenge, but that's like... FE4-7 specific. Everything else you can easily tank your way out of.

[Paperblade]

Zihark/Nolan should be paired, and not because Volug is "bad" (lololol, Nolan has to be a Reaver to have even a chance at beating Volug).

The difference between Thunder and Earth affinity is very slight for Volug, and no one else can really reach the levels of durability that Zihark and Nolan can with a support.