Rodykitty Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Well, adding this to the list of banned suggestions then. EDIT: Actually, nevermind. Doesn't seem to fit in. Edited September 1, 2009 by Brawl Sheeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Because of how ridiculously broken they are, not because they don't need a master seal. We both know that. What I'm stating is not needing a Master seal is another benefit to the equation. The problem with Sage | Bishop? Iffy Spd points and she can't ever double until Level 13-17... which is pretty freaking far away. Nevermind that it can't save her a whole lot because the leveling formula for Staves is different to that of Curate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 We both know that. What I'm stating is not needing a Master seal is another benefit to the equation.Maybe by technicality, but really they were never tiered with it in mind, and they just go from being broken tier to broken tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Francis York Morgan Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Because of how ridiculously broken they are, not because they don't need a master seal. We both know that. What I'm stating is not needing a Master seal is another benefit to the equation. The problem with Sage | Bishop? Iffy Spd points and she can't ever double until Level 13-17... which is pretty freaking far away. Nevermind that it can't save her a whole lot because the leveling formula for Staves is different to that of Curate. Well I am just saying she does have potential. She should be to at least gain experience every turn as a sage/bishop thanks to healing. She is still crappy... just maybe slightly less so since being able to at least double in the mage class gives her the edge over them. Afterall being able to heal/provide chip damage is better than being a failure in every other class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Because of how ridiculously broken they are, not because they don't need a master seal. We both know that. What I'm stating is not needing a Master seal is another benefit to the equation. The problem with Sage | Bishop? Iffy Spd points and she can't ever double until Level 13-17... which is pretty freaking far away. Nevermind that it can't save her a whole lot because the leveling formula for Staves is different to that of Curate. Well I am just saying she does have potential. She should be to at least gain experience every turn as a sage/bishop thanks to healing. She is still crappy... just maybe slightly less so since being able to at least double in the mage class gives her the edge over them. Afterall being able to heal/provide chip damage is better than being a failure in every other class. She eerily borderlines it. Getting that high in levels is also fairly ludicrous and seeing anything over 19 Spd is practically a Mission: Impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Francis York Morgan Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Because of how ridiculously broken they are, not because they don't need a master seal. We both know that. What I'm stating is not needing a Master seal is another benefit to the equation. The problem with Sage | Bishop? Iffy Spd points and she can't ever double until Level 13-17... which is pretty freaking far away. Nevermind that it can't save her a whole lot because the leveling formula for Staves is different to that of Curate. Well I am just saying she does have potential. She should be to at least gain experience every turn as a sage/bishop thanks to healing. She is still crappy... just maybe slightly less so since being able to at least double in the mage class gives her the edge over them. Afterall being able to heal/provide chip damage is better than being a failure in every other class. She eerily borderlines it. Getting that high in levels is also fairly ludicrous and seeing anything over 19 Spd is practically a Mission: Impossible. Merric and sheeda are only doubling two more enemies at 25 AS at endgame (max AS for a sage/bishop btw it's the 21 AS heroes) than gato and midia. Generally all she needs to reach is 16 (17 for that one bishop) speed for endgame since her durability is gonna suck no matter what and with 19 level ups and a 60% speed growth I don't see her missing it. Alot of the armors and mages AS suck to. And she could always stay in sniper for a while just to build up speed/provide chip damage on draco's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 So, the fact that Rickard doesn't need a seal to be useful but Tomas does doesn't matter because Rickard is horrible at combat, even though Rickard's utility has nothing to do with combat? Eh? Rickard is useful? News to me, he's bottom tier. And no, Tomas without a seal is better than Rickard, as I've said before, which is just epic lawls. Tomas could go MYRMIDON and be better than Rickard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Eh? Rickard is useful? News to me, he's bottom tier. I'm not going to get into the whole bottom tier thing. I'm just going to say that he will have positive utility for half of his existence because he requires no training and can pick chests in those levels. The other half, he's neutral in. And no, Tomas without a seal is better than Rickard, as I've said before, which is just epic lawls. Tomas could go MYRMIDON and be better than Rickard. At combat only, which doesn't matter at all, but sure, keep bringing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Julian's position was never based on his thief utility, this has been said before. Unlike Rickard, Julian has existing combat ability on H5, so he's allowed to rise on the tier list based on that. Gentlemen, I'd appreciate if you didn't treat me like a lunatic. The part of Julian's tier position based on opening chests shouldn't be more valuable than Rickard's when they both exist. Unless you're saying it's not noted at all in which case it should be because apparently being open chests even with lower availability is better than three chapters of Mend and Warp plus one necromancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Gentlemen, I'd appreciate if you didn't treat me like a lunatic.Actually I'm going to treat you like one now that you've said this.The part of Julian's tier position based on opening chests shouldn't be more valuable than Rickard's when they both exist.Nevermind that we said (possibly a thousand times already) that Julian's position was based on combat and not thief utility. The same applies to Marth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 So if I understand this correctly it's based only on combat in which case he should get additional bonuses for thief shit. Marth is a different issue because he has other things to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Even if they did get the additional bonuses, it probably won't be enough to jump them up above another character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Maybe. In either case I don't feel like going for Julian + 3 chapters with A staves + Aum > Ballisticians but at least the matter at hand got solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 You could argue it makes Julian not a tier below said people, but I'm not in the mood for that crap. ...Actually, what closed the tier gap between Jake/Beck? IIRC Stonehoist was proven to be pretty important as it throws an extra 40 uses to Jake and even then he still has ammo issues...goddess knows what those are like for Beck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thieving utility would be best as the tie-breaker (this applying to Julian). I don't see him going much higher IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Francis York Morgan Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 You could argue it makes Julian not a tier below said people, but I'm not in the mood for that crap. ...Actually, what closed the tier gap between Jake/Beck? IIRC Stonehoist was proven to be pretty important as it throws an extra 40 uses to Jake and even then he still has ammo issues...goddess knows what those are like for Beck. It was supports. Jake supports sheeda,lena,maria,minerva, and linde. There all available from the moment he joins and sheeda,lena, and minerva have a high chance to be used. Linde could be around for a few chapters as well to thanks to aura until it runs out. He only needs 5 chapters with any of them to get a c and 10 for B. Generally being able to hit with a ballistae without forges is why there is a tier gap. This saves the tier player money for... more might on jakes ballistae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 I already corrected the error of putting Jake in Mid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I hate to be stupid or anything, but why is Cord better than Barst? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Here, simply look at these: Barst Cord Though I will admit Barst has a slightly better time in the Mercenary class thanks to +5 Str and Hunter->General setup looks kingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) I have to see, I had trouble readong that, but Barst looks better. :/ Though I will admit that Cord has a weeny little Speed lead (rhyme not intended), but that's about all I could make out. I DID stick to Fighter though. Edited September 4, 2009 by CrashGordon94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 This is an H5 tier list. You know, the mode where speed actually matters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) This is an H5 tier list. You know, the mode where speed actually matters? Well keep in mind he isn't on the "consistent doubling path" until ~Level 15 and that they still match vs. units that don't double (or Barst pulls a slight lead somewhere). Barst has the slight earlygame advantage and that's about it. Durability slightly in the later stages as well. Still, IOS nailed it. Spd REALLY matters in this game. Edited September 4, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) I know Speed is important, but a Tiny Speed Lead < A decent everything else lead. Edited September 4, 2009 by CrashGordon94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 You're arguing the wrong mode. When everybody dies in the same amount of hits, offence is what matters and doubling>>>not doubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 You're arguing the wrong mode. When everybody dies in the same amount of hits, offence is what matters and doubling>>>not doubling. Eh? Barst does have durability though in some areas. Though really doubling something is better than not doubling in general. Except Armor Knights, which both double ( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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