FE3, Book 2 tier list

[grandjackal]

She's at best going above Samuto's current position. At least Doga and and Gordon have relevant use of some form. She's ok at best for one single chapter. All things considered, you haven't seemed to convince anyone enough to get her out of Low and into Low-Mid. She should rise, but not much.

We'll have to wait to see what Chainey has to say about it though.

[Lord Raven]

Yeah my convincing skills kinda suck.

I wouldn't see her above Samuto. She's also guaranteed to two round the black dragons and Barbarians in the final chapters which actually says more than most of your current chars except Bantu. She's also guaranteed to 2HKO and she doesn't need EXP to do it... which can't be said of most of your current chars. So really, she isn't so bad that she's restricted to low tier.

Finally, NOBODY has shown me how there's a lack of Funds. "Just play through the game" is not valid, considering it's high possible to sell stat boosters too just to make up for it.

[grandjackal]

Yeah my convincing skills kinda suck.

I wouldn't see her above Samuto. She's also guaranteed to two round the black dragons and Barbarians in the final chapters which actually says more than most of your current chars except Bantu. She's also guaranteed to 2HKO and she doesn't need EXP to do it... which can't be said of most of your current chars. So really, she isn't so bad that she's restricted to low tier.

Finally, NOBODY has shown me how there's a lack of Funds. "Just play through the game" is not valid, considering it's high possible to sell stat boosters too just to make up for it.

Why sell stat-boosters when you can use them? Yeah yeah, anyone can use them, but that's the point. Anyone can use them. It benefits everyone equally. But why not sell the dragonstones due to the mamkutes being meh at best with them anyways?

Either we use stat-boosters and sell dragon stones to solve the economy problem, or we use the statboosters AND dragonstones and now we don't have a lot of money to spend on stuff like weapons. We DEFINITELY aren't gonna sell the stat boosters just to have a meh unit get in the team.

You gonna give me that "Every unit gets great stats anyways" stuff? Why not make their stats better BEFORE they max out? Kashim and Sirius would love goddess statues to never have to deal with those rare crit occasions ever again, Luke would love a skill book for better javelin use, Gordon would like a power ring and Doga a speed ring. The difference? They come early enough for the effects to be profound. By the time Chiki shows up, even with giving her stat boosters, she isn't doing anything anybody else is doing. Hell, even Samuto and Matthis has a greater opportunity to them than she does.

It has nothing to do with favoring a unit (after all, we can give marth that power ring too). It's about who can put more to use. The earlier you come, the better the chance of you getting a stat booster. Simple as that. Why earlier? Because greater stats can be put to better use at a time when you don't have the killer stats to take enemies down with ease.

"But we can wait to use them!" On who, the guys who don't have much time to be used? Guys who appear at a time when your team most likely will be doing better anyways? To favor Chiki? Pfeh. Dragonstones benefit two characters and neither to stellar points. Stat-boosters help great units become greater faster.

[Lord Raven]

Either we use stat-boosters and sell dragon stones to solve the economy problem, or we use the statboosters AND dragonstones and now we don't have a lot of money to spend on stuff like weapons. We DEFINITELY aren't gonna sell the stat boosters just to have a meh unit get in the team.

We're not selling them JUST for the "meh" unit... the rest of the team needs weapons too.

Kashim and Sirius would love goddess statues to never have to deal with those rare crit occasions ever again

The rest of your army would also love weapons to use with the 5K or so you get with goddess icons.

Luke would love a skill book for better javelin use

And get +whatever hit? The 5K there can be put to better use too.

By the time Chiki shows up, even with giving her stat boosters, she isn't doing anything anybody else is doing. Hell, even Samuto and Matthis has a greater opportunity to them than she does.

Look, this is really great and it would be perfectly relevant if I was arguing her above those characters.

Stat-boosters help great units become greater faster.

Stat boosters benefit one unit at a time and unless it's an Angelic Robe, Boots, or early-game speedwings, it's nothing stellar.

Also, aren't most of your Funds problems set by the time you get the Divine Dragonstone anyway? You should have at least like 50K spending money at this point, which is enough to buy you like 100 iron swords or 50 silver swords. :|

[Dr. Tarrasque]

For funds, just look at the item locations for book 2, primarily Silver Axe and Gold.

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe3/location.html

You start with 10k funds.

[grandjackal]

My math might be a bit off due to doing it off the top of my head, but this is around 110k with naturally gained gold and silver axes sold...

Throw in silver card and Nathan's right. Funds really isn't a problem. If I recall, you get the silver card pretty early in this game too...

I can see Chiki going up then, but where? Now that we have an estimate...what does it mean for the expensive units? How much does it benefit them exactly? Chiki's weapon is still expensive, but does this mean she can even sell the fire stones for the much more useful to her Time dragon stone? It's not like Banut is being a savior for the ice segments of dragon valley anyways.

So...Chiki can go up higher, but by how much exactly?

[Lord Raven]

Below Astram, in lower mid. ~_~

Also, you get silver card at the halfway point (C10). It's not too bad, though. That 110K becomes like 160K at least.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[grandjackal]

Below Astram, in lower mid. ~_~

Fine fine. Sorry for maybe perhaps going a bit far with this. If only I kinda glanced at the inventory page...

...And yeah, I hyped the skill book and luck stone thing ;;>>

But still, selling the fire stones for time dragon, keeping divine for later. Your thoughts?

[Lord Raven]

Sounds about right. I wouldn't think Funds is too much of an issue later on anyway..

[grandjackal]

Sounds about right. I wouldn't think Funds is too much of an issue later on anyway..

This wouldn't get her higher? She gets pretty awesome defense out of time stone, can use it till the final chapter where divine is better. Even with doubling, 15 defense with pretty good HP is pretty solid, all things considered. Her only weak point is before the time stone, but she can just now use divine until then now thanks to Levin coming in to save the day. Not like she won't have enough uses out of divine, I used her the moment I got her one time and through the rest of the game, never ran out of it. Came close, but still.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Lord Raven]

Pardon my ignorance, I never really understood what the Time Dragonstone was? :|

[grandjackal]

Pardon my ignorance, I never really understood what the Time Dragonstone was? :|

You get it in a secret shop. I believe it's...in the chapter around the Battle of the Pass. It's at least before the battle with HIM. Basically the Fire Dragon has lots of HP and power, but meh defense and skill (can actually miss). Time dragon doesn't have to worry too much about skill, do decent damage and have a good amount of defense. Great even. Only problem is you have to buy it instead of just finding it. But with how we proved funds, and fire dragon stones not being too useful...

Neither have Divine's dragon raping properties however.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Dr. Tarrasque]

You're probably thinking of Demon Dragon because I don't recall (and can't find in the main site) anything about a time dragon.

[grandjackal]

You're probably thinking of Demon Dragon because I don't recall (and can't find in the main site) anything about a time dragon.

Pardon me, Demon Dragon stone. Lot of people around call it Time stone...

I can read a bit of japanese, I know what the word for demon is, how did I miss it?

EDIT: Speaking of funds though, shouldn't Julian go up a bit more for finding one of these silver axes?

Edited February 14, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Rodykitty]

Just a heads up. Astoria is going to rise up in his own tier.

Just thought I would let everyone know.

[grandjackal]

Just a heads up. Astoria is going to rise up in his own tier.

Just thought I would let everyone know.

This has to be the most awesome way to hint at something I've ever seen. Defiant, cocky, confident. I like it. Can't wait to hear why.

[Rodykitty]

Not getting Astoria means you lose like 800G and whatever you must do to get to said secret shop on buying another Dragon Slayer to do the same task the Miracle Sword is doing.

Extra EXP likely isn't too big of a loss since in this game everybody caps stats at 20 anyway with the star orb shards ensuring the most are made out of level ups.

If anything, the Dragon Slayer works fine as a substitute for extra level ups since it allows you to kill Dragons far more easily with less reliance on stats (not to mention other characters not using Swords are able to exploit dragon weaknesses), then in the chapters thereafter Astoria joins and you still get the Miracle Sword so combine that with the Star Orb, and you *still* have a great opportunity to get extra level ups, Astoria himself heavily benefiting from this as well.

With that, he's probably just going to rise a couple of slots in Low-Mid. Being in the bottom of Low-Mid is such a forced placement, because it rides way too much on ONE flaw, rather than looking at Astoria as a whole. Astoria's join time and base Str, as well as reliance on Miracle Sword for leveling up, is what keeps him in Low-Mid as well as the minor flaws inflicted from recruiting him is what will keep him in Low-Mid, not the sole Miracle Sword argument.

[grandjackal]

Not getting Astoria means you lose like 800G and whatever you must do to get to said secret shop on buying another Dragon Slayer to do the same task the Miracle Sword is doing.

Extra EXP likely isn't too big of a loss since in this game everybody caps stats at 20 anyway with the star orb shards ensuring the most are made out of level ups.

If anything, the Dragon Slayer works fine as a substitute for extra level ups since it allows you to kill Dragons far more easily with less reliance on stats (not to mention other characters not using Swords are able to exploit dragon weaknesses), then in the chapters thereafter Astoria joins and you still get the Miracle Sword so combine that with the Star Orb, and you *still* have a great opportunity to get extra level ups, Astoria himself heavily benefiting from this as well.

With that, he's probably just going to rise a couple of slots in Low-Mid. Being in the bottom of Low-Mid is such a forced placement, because it rides way too much on ONE flaw, rather than looking at Astoria as a whole. Astoria's join time and base Str, as well as reliance on Miracle Sword for leveling up, is what keeps him in Low-Mid as well as the minor flaws inflicted from recruiting him is what will keep him in Low-Mid, not the sole Miracle Sword argument.

Uhhh...This all WOULD make sense, but please clarify this...800 gold loss and suddenly not being able to get into the secret shop...What 800 gold, and how does he suddenly make a secret shop dissapear? Unless you mean he stops you from SPENDING money to GET another dragonslayer, but...This also makes no sense.

In analysis, he's...still meh. If you can clarify the point I wish to clarify, I GUESS he can go up a tiiiiiiiny bit...

[Rodykitty]

but please clarify this...800 gold loss and suddenly not being able to get into the secret shop...What 800 gold, and how does he suddenly make a secret shop dissapear?

800 Gold = Price of a Dragon Slayer with the Silver Card.

Secret Shop carries Dragon Slayers in Ch. 11.

After looking at Serenes Forest again, Ch. 11 happens to be the desert chapter. A flyer is easily accessing that Secret Shop, so you're not going to lose any turns getting the Dragon Slayer afterall.

[PuffPuff]

The Silver Lance Roshe gives is just another on top of a pile of weapons you now have.

Not that Silver Lances aren't really going to get useful anyway after the Dragon Valley chapter either. Because at that point in the game only Doga and Sheema will be able to use them, since the Final Chapter is indoors meaning, no Lance using for your mounted units. This also lowers the Gladius usefulness as well, which is bad since you can only use it for 4 Chapters.

Chiki isn't "always sucking." Seriously, two rounding everything past C14/15 isn't fail especially since she has a 1-2 range on top of it so she essentially helps weaken units WHICH ALSO HELPS because she doesn't take much damage WHICH ALSO HELPS because she's transformed for like 6 or 7 turns or more at a time WHICH ALSO HELPS because your units don't have evade so it's hard to double attack without taking damage anyway.

They also cannot defend against Dragon attacks either, as well as your units can't either. Like a Fire Dragon will ALWAYS emmit 20 DMG, Ice Dragon 20 DMG, Flying Dragon 16 DMG, Time Dragon 18 DMG, Earth Dragon 22 DMG, Last Boss 35 DMG. None of these damages cannot be neglected by no one except Chiki, and Banut. I believe that they get a 75% protection from Dragon attacks (also the only ones that can neglect dragon attacks. If anything, not only enemies cannot neglect their damages and having an instant faintality from their criticals, but also making good money by selling their extra stones, and giving Chiki a Time Dragon Stone. Also they are the only ones that can stand up to Dragon attacks. Useful for that!

No, but at least Alan was useful at one point in the game, that's more than Chiki can say.

Even though using her is optional. She is very helpful in Chapters 18-20 and the last two chapters.

If you read the original point like I did... then you'd know.

Yeah, let me answer it to someone who doesn't READ. >=\ It's because of selling the Firestone and Divine Stone that'll scrape you half the funds of the total cost of the stone worth. Not that this matters either as there no ranking system in this game.

And you're also saying that a Fire Stone

That it's actually only 500G per use (Silver Card), otherwise 1000G per use, and 1000G (Silver Card) 2000G to Divine that Nathan has already stated. Yes, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I see Nathan's point now. It is actually cheaper to use a Firestone than a Divine/Time dragonstone use, and that Chiki will get assertive enough when she grows enough levels. >=D Not just that, but with a Silver Card it'll actually double the dragonstones value.

Especially since the Fire stone lasts during enemy phase and can attack basically anything that attacks it during that time? Really?

The only disadvantage to every stone but a Divine and Flying Dragonstone is that you cannot go over mountains, or cannot fly for that matter. I guess that's what makes the Divine Stone more than any other except a Time Dragonstones worth.

She can be torn apart in this chapter, you can't allow her to be targeted.

Not with a Time Dragonstone she won't.

As for the Earth Dragon, you can say with a straight face you're having anything fight against that? I'm not even arguing her very high if you've read anything I'm saying.

I'm sure that the Divine Stone can also be useful against the last boss, just in case that you don't get the Falchion, since the Divine Stone is the only other option that you have to neglect the Dragon King's as well as the Earth Dragons special halving the enemy's Str. Shouldn't this be enough to get her out of low tier?

If you play the game, you'd know that the gold you get is, in fact, low.

I'm playing the game now for the sake of enemy stats, so I'm abusing the hell out of the arena. I'm arguing it also based upon what I've seen. Clearly, Gold was never an issue for me.

Yes. Though I will have to admit that I have never did a playthrough without the arena. Even I know that you can make more thanb enough profits from the enemy thieves, some treasure chests, excavating the items in the desert level (Chapter 11), selling stat boosters, and selling some of the Dragonstones. Let's not forget that you get enough enemy spoils for the weapons anyways.

Finally, NOBODY has shown me how there's a lack of Funds. "Just play through the game" is not valid, considering it's high possible to sell stat boosters too just to make up for it.

Not to mention that 3 of the hidden items that you can find in the Desert level and an item to the second to the last chapter which are Silver Axes which I'm surprised that they sell for the same amount as a Stat booster. That gets you 20000G right there.

For funds, just look at the item locations for book 2, primarily Silver Axe and Gold.

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe3/location.html

You start with 10k funds.

Valid. That has what I've bewen saying at the beginning, though I never knew that a Silver Axe was hidden in Chapter 9. But I'll admit that without finding these hidden items, gold will surely be an issue without selling the Stat boosters and the most of the dragonstones. The hidden items makes it even better. =]

You also can find some of the hidden items by...

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe3/treasure.html

Chiki's weapon is still expensive, but does this mean she can even sell the fire stones for the much more useful to her Time dragon stone? It's not like Banut is being a savior for the ice segments of dragon valley anyways.

Oh sure no one listens to me. If you would have read as I have already stated this several pages ago, you wouldn't have to explain this now, would ya?

Below Astram, in lower mid. ~_~

Also, you get silver card at the halfway point (C10). It's not too bad, though. That 110K becomes like 160K at least.

Though, I admit that it shouldn't have to take knowledge from guidence just to get good money anyways. It's downright redundant.

Her only weak point is before the time stone, but she can just now use divine until then now thanks to Levin coming in to save the day. Not like she won't have enough uses out of divine, I used her the moment I got her one time and through the rest of the game, never ran out of it. Came close, but still.

That's what I have been saying all this time a few pages ago. Though, I regret myself for not explaining this in a better way, like Levin did. Thanks Levin. =)

You get it in a secret shop. I believe it's...in the chapter around the Battle of the Pass.

No, you get it in Chapter 14 by...

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe3/secret.html

...and by using the Warp Staff to Warp someone with the Member/Silver cards to the cracked ice location.

Serenes actually refrs it as "Demon Dragonstone".

I can read a bit of japanese, I know what the word for demon is, how did I miss it?

Actually it means "Akuma" in Japanese.

EDIT: Speaking of funds though, shouldn't Julian go up a bit more for finding one of these silver axes?

Agreed. Thieves can find items better than any othe unit with higher luck. Shouldn't we move Ricardo up too for this reason?

Edited February 14, 2009 by Laylea

[Rodykitty]

Why wouldn't you get the Falchion? It's pretty easy to get this time around.

[PuffPuff]

Why wouldn't you get the Falchion? It's pretty easy to get this time around.

Well, I've forgot to get it last playthrough, luckily I was playing it on a ROM with savestates. You also can select no to not save in case that you've just remembered that you've forgot to get something important.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Laylea

[Dat Nick]

That it's actually only 500G per use (Silver Card), otherwise 1000G per use, and 1000G (Silver Card) 2000G to Divine that Nathan has already stated. Yes, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I see Nathan's point now. It is actually cheaper to use a Firestone than a Divine/Time dragonstone use, and that Chiki will get assertive enough when she grows enough levels. >=D Not just that, but with a Silver Card it'll actually double the dragonstones value.

Yeah, uh, no?

You already had the stones in your inventory. Getting the silver card doesn't double what they sell for.

[Lord Raven]

No but it doubles what you're able to buy. >_>

[Dat Nick]

BUYING stones? Pardon me while I proceed to lol my pants off.