FE3, Book 2 tier list

[grandjackal]

Kashim is better.

Bases aren't that much lower in comparison, actually, and has the growths to catch up to George's starting stats. Kashim has almost the same movement capabilities as well.

At George's join time, they'll probably be about equal in all areas, but Kashim is just going to keep getting better after this point.

*rechecks* Yeah, you're right. The fact he gets a horse helps too. K, Kashim outclasses him, but Kashim can't use the Parthia for dragon valley. George will skyrocket in levels quickly. I'd still say Kashim outclasses him though, just not as badly as once thought. But that's just me...

[PuffPuff]

Man, if you're gonna throw up on the page with a long-ass post, could you at least not make stuff up? Lol, enemies dropping lots of weapons.

Anyone have any relevant points that make sense/aren't complete BS?

EDIT: Shannan has a point, Gordon's bases destroy Ryan's, not to mention Gordon's growths aren't that much lower. Also, am I the only one who would say Kashim=George? If Kashim's better, George is at least able to compete.

For one. You don't have a clue at the amount of weapons that you can get from Chapter 15 alone. Sure funds are tight earlygame, but you have plenty of Stat up items that you don't need that you can sell for a decent sum. And if you going on debating about GeorgeVs Kashim, the only thing George has better going for him is that he can use the Partia automatically. Sure you can sell the Divine Stone, but if I were to do that, I might as well use some of that cash to buy me a Time Dragonstone, which is overall better than the Divinestone. Have you ever EVEN tried to use her for more than just chapter 15?? Obviously not. And about the make sense part, Ha, it's obvious that you don't listen to what I've already have thrown in your faces already about the damn fund shortage. Is it either that you love to be a jackass, troll, or to folks that you can't stand that are actually making better points that you, that has probably played the game more times than you, and that your just ashamed to admit it that I am actually right.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Laylea

[Rodykitty]

George will skyrocket in levels quickly.

And then George caps level and only gains 3 Str/Spd/, 9 HP, 1-2 Def, etc. Kashim is getting in half as many levels (let's say 7 levels) 4 Str, 2 Skill/Speed, 1 Def, and 4 HP...

And some of the progress made to get that is through his join time, so he'll just keep making better use of the levels, despite having slower EXP gain than George.

And for the real kicker, he suddenly promotes. Though he only gains +2 Skill and +2 Def, his other stats will be great by then.

So George being able to level up with the Parthia is not going to help him much as he'll just ram his level cap faster. If Gordon or Ryan can use the Parthia, then it's actually a stronger argument in their favor.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Chainey

[PuffPuff]

And then George caps level and only gains 3 Str/Spd/, 9 HP, 1-2 Def, etc. Kashim is getting in half as many levels (let's say 7 levels) 4 Str, 2 Skill/Speed, 1 Def, and 4 HP...

And some of the progress made to get that is through his join time, so he'll just keep making better use of the levels, despite having slower EXP gain than George.

And for the real kicker, he suddenly promotes. Though he only gains +2 Skill and +2 Def, his other stats will be great by then.

So George being able to level up with the Parthia is not going to help him much as he'll just ram his level cap faster. If Gordon or Ryan can use the Parthia, then it's actually a stronger argument in their favor.

Not that Geoge is going to grow much in hardly anything but Hp and weapon skill either.

[Rodykitty]

Have you ever EVEN tried to use her for more than just chapter 15?? Obviously not.

I have. She's okay. Nothing spectacular or worth anything to fangirl about. I'm sorry honey, but while her performance is something that can be helpful, it's not worth 18K of helpfulness.

And while the most efficient use for Chiki is to just give her the Fire Stone Banutu can use, even the Fire Stone can be sold to earn a nice fund raise.

Not that Geoge is going to grow much in hardly anything but Hp and weapon skill either.

You know I just proved that, right? Redundancy FTW?

[grandjackal]

And then George caps level and only gains 3 Str/Spd/, 9 HP, 1-2 Def, etc. Kashim is getting in half as many levels (let's say 7 levels) 4 Str, 2 Skill/Speed, 1 Def, and 4 HP...

And some of the progress made to get that is through his join time, so he'll just keep making better use of the levels, despite having slower EXP gain than George.

And for the real kicker, he suddenly promotes. Though he only gains +2 Skill and +2 Def, his other stats will be great by then.

So George being able to level up with the Parthia is not going to help him much as he'll just ram his level cap faster. If Gordon or Ryan can use the Parthia, then it's actually a stronger argument in their favor.

It's basically boosts he gets to keep him ahead for a tidbit longer, thus why I said Kashim still outclasses him, just by a teeeny bit less. Him being able to use the Parthia is still an advantage he has. He doesn't get as much out of it as Gordon (as Ryan getting it is lol), but he still gets something out of Parthia use.

Lol, Time Stone.

[Rodykitty]

Also keep in mind the Parthia use is situational for EXP gain. If you use it to get an instant level up from a dragon, there is a very good chance you'll get a crappy level up. So much for "keep him ahead for a tidbit longer", right?

George has really good base stats anyway. He should be able to get away with using Silver Bow, especially since it has ridiculous Mt in FE3.

[PuffPuff]

I have. She's okay. Nothing spectacular or worth anything to fangirl about. I'm sorry honey, but while her performance is something that can be helpful, it's not worth 18K of helpfulness.

And while the most efficient use for Chiki is to just give her the Fire Stone Banutu can use, even the Fire Stone can be sold to earn a nice fund raise.

If selling the Divinestone, you could buy a Timedragonstone for trade off, as it is a better stone anyway. Chiki doesn't really need anything other than a Time Dragonstone anyway saving 9000 than by keeping the Divinestone itself.

You know I just proved that, right? Redundancy FTW?

Except weaponskill. Not that it matters anyway as he already can automatically use the Partia anyway.

And about the not making sense part. It seems to me that Grandjackel has only played the game once not knowing about the secret shop in Chapter 14, that you can buy Dragonstones in, and not knowing about the amount of items that you can dig up archelogically in the desert chapter to sell for a good sum, and to just keep the Angel Clothes and Dragonshield out of those items. And to call some of the characters by their American/.European names instead of the Original Japanese names. That made me realise this right away. Back on topic...

You can sell the many Stat up items, but the Angel Clothes and Dragonshields and maybe a Promotional item that you might not need (that is if you are using many prepromos) to get you the funds you need to cover up expenses throughout the game.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Laylea

[grandjackal]

Also keep in mind the Parthia use is situational for EXP gain. If you use it to get an instant level up from a dragon, there is a very good chance you'll get a crappy level up. So much for "keep him ahead for a tidbit longer", right?

George has really good base stats anyway. He should be able to get away with using Silver Bow, especially since it has ridiculous Mt in FE3.

Good point. He does have some bad growths, but...compensates for leveling more rapidly? Still compensates for a bit. He could use silver bow for flying dragons, but there's a lot of other things that would love Parthia attention anyways. Either free level up fire dragons (for when weakened, damn loads of HP, there isn't many things one shotting these things anyways, having a super weapon take them out at a safer pace certainly helps), Ice Dragons, or those Barbarians (if he can't take them out with a silver bow anyways). Either way I still agree Kashim outclasses him. I just want George to go up a bit, not above Kashim. At best, he'd be right below Kashim.

A thought just occured. If they remade Book 2, wouldn't these barbarians become Berserkers? Imagine these guys with crit and water walk along with mountain terrain advantages...And if these guys became berserkers, what would that fucker with the master sword become? MERCILESS MODE no less...

George would be our fucking savior in the valley..

But that's irrelevant I guess, just an interesting thought.

EDIT: Also, why sell one dragonstone on the basis of a unit being bad per cost of it anyways just to get her another expensive-ass weapon she does no better with? That and it isn't like we NEED stat boosters. Hell, we could sell the goddess stones and secret books for more money anyways.

As for names, I say which I like better. Astram sounds better than Astoria, yet George I call George rather than Jeorge (the so called american/european name). But since you're an Otoku, I'll call them Jyoruji and Asutoria. Better known as ジョルジ and アストリア.

The joke is dead, now you're just being annoying.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Rodykitty]

If selling the Divinestone, you could buy a Timedragonstone for trade off, as it is a better stone anyway. Chiki doesn't really need anything other than a Time Dragonstone anyway.

18K is still too much for one unit, especially one whose uses are situational.

Selling all of your stat boosting items, that can fix dents in your whole army's weaknesses just to let a single character use her weapon is blatant favortism.

Either free level up fire dragons (for when weakened, damn loads of HP, there isn't many things one shotting these things anyways, having a super weapon take them out at a safer pace certainly helps), Ice Dragons, or those Barbarians (if he can't take them out with a silver bow anyways).

Also, everyone is overrating the threat value of these units. A lot of these units can handle these enemies just fine, which is why they're several tiers above George in the first place.

Being able to help out against these units applies to EVERYONE THAT CAN DO SO.

He does have some bad growths, but...compensates for leveling more rapidly?

I just proved he doesn't compensate by leveling more rapidly.

George would be our fucking savior in the valley..

His bases are good. Parthia is good. It's just that gaining rapid EXP is not going to do anything for him.

I just want George to go up a bit, not above Kashim. At best, he'd be right below Kashim.

No. Edited February 11, 2009 by Chainey

[PuffPuff]

Also keep in mind the Parthia use is situational for EXP gain. If you use it to get an instant level up from a dragon, there is a very good chance you'll get a crappy level up. So much for "keep him ahead for a tidbit longer", right?

Yes. because of the RNG that aren't really achieving from the amount of movement and by just battling once for a level up.

See this for further details..

http://faqs.ign.com/articles/520/520430p1.html

It is the same in every other FE game in terms of RNG manipulation by movement, and to how many times that you have battled to get a level up. This should be considered as a FE tuteral instead of just for FE7, really.

[Rodykitty]

Yes. because of the RNG that aren't really achieving from the amount of movement and by just battling once for a level up.

See this for further details..

http://faqs.ign.com/articles/520/520430p1.html

It is the same in every other FE game in terms of RNG manipulation by movement, and to how many times that you have battled to get a level up. This should be considered as a FE tuteral instead of just for FE7, really.

Whatever.

[PuffPuff]

18K is still too much for one unit, especially one whose uses are situational.

Selling all of your stat boosting items, that can fix dents in your whole army's weaknesses just to let a single character use her weapon is blatant favortism.

Not that you will need most of them anyway, you have the Star Orb after all.

[Rodykitty]

Favortism is favortism. If Chiki's usefulness is coming from having to let her have a huge portion of a shared resource, regardless of what you can do to make up for it, then she doesn't need to be put in a good spot on the tier list.

[PuffPuff]

Favortism is favortism. If Chiki's usefulness is coming from having to let her have a huge portion of a shared resource, regardless of what you can do to make up for it, then she doesn't need to be put in a good spot on the tier list.

Your right. She doesn't need to be moved up. She is only there to make the Chapters easier. You can sell her Divine Stone get a cheaper better one of trade off (Time Dragonstone), and sell both of the Firestones, as they are much weaker than the Time one. See that alone still gets you 27k still, plus the amount that you will make from the items in the desert, etc..

[grandjackal]

Also, everyone is overrating the threat value of these units. A lot of these units can handle these enemies just fine, which is why they're several tiers above George in the first place.

Yeah, with special equipment. Even on average with shiver, only mage truly garunteed to kill Fire Dragons by himself is Yubello.

Only difference is that Georgie boy is using Parthia. Not like one of the swordsmen are using the Miracle Blade...

Though I forget, can you get a dragonslayer at the Khadain market, or is there just the one Minerva brings with her?

I just proved he doesn't compensate by leveling more rapidly.

I never said he compensated a lot.

His bases are good. Parthia is good. It's just that gaining rapid EXP is not going to do anything for him.

Just dreams of a merciless mode book 2.

No.

Could you at least have been a smart-ass about it for giggles? The straight up no is like running into a wall of unfunny...

[Rodykitty]

Yeah, with special equipment. Even on average with shiver, only mage truly garunteed to kill Fire Dragons by himself is Yubello.

Only difference is that Georgie boy is using Parthia. Not like one of the swordsmen are using the Miracle Blade...

Blizza isn't special equipment. Neither is Fire. Shaver is easily replaced by bows.

Plus, straight up stats. FE3 Book 2 throws so many dragons at you this time around because the game knows that players will get the stats to handle them with. If anything, surviving them is more valuable than being able to OHKO them.

I never said he compensated a lot.

I have no clue what you were trying to say then.

Just dreams of a merciless mode book 2.

You know his usefulness on Merciless Mode is not going to have anything to do with his growths, right?

Your right. She doesn't need to be moved up. She is only there to make the Chapters easier. You can sell her Divine Stone get a cheaper better one of trade off (Time Dragonstone), and sell both of the Firestones, as they are much weaker than the Time one. See that alone still gets you 27k still, plus the amount that you will make from the items in the desert, etc..

Fine, as long as you understand that Chiki isn't going to rise in the tier list.

[grandjackal]

Blizza isn't special equipment. Neither is Fire. Shaver is easily replaced by bows.

Ok, that's magic. What of the swordsmen and the spearmen? Two swordsmen are getting the miracle blade and minerva's dragonslayer (if we aren't using her at least, though...chances are we are). Bowmen take down flyers with ease, but everything else they might struggle against along with the spearmen. Granted, all but Doga's using swords/magic/bows in the barrel volcano... There's still plenty without special equipment/magic.

Plus, straight up stats. FE3 Book 2 throws so many dragons at you this time around because the game knows that players will get the stats to handle them with. If anything, surviving them is more valuable than being able to OHKO them.

Thus why archers are especially a boon in the dragon valley as they can just take something out and someone can get in the way of the next attack. But yeah, this isn't specific to George I suppose...

I have no clue what you were trying to say then.

I said at BEST, George would get below Kashim. I'm now clarifying that is asking for a bit much, but not even a notch up?

You know his usefulness on Merciless Mode is not going to have anything to do with his growths, right?

I'm fully aware, it's not like I haven't played hard modes before. Would have more to do with his bases, no need of promotion item so he's good right away, starts off right with the Parthia and can use it well. SOMETHING has to weaken those garunteed to be hardass dragons of merciless mode. Everyone will learn to love the hammerne staff.

But ok, fine. George can stay. But he still benefits, just not as greatly as Gordon does.

[Rodykitty]

Ok, that's magic. What of the swordsmen and the spearmen? Two swordsmen are getting the miracle blade and minerva's dragonslayer (if we aren't using her at least, though...chances are we are). Bowmen take down flyers with ease, but everything else they might struggle against along with the spearmen. Granted, all but Doga's using swords/magic/bows in the barrel volcano... There's still plenty without special equipment/magic.

You can just block the forts and pretty much win the Volcano chapter automatically be it for the sake of safety or grinding EXP.

The Ice Dragons aren't that hard either on the outdoor chapter. Only the initial swarm is of any threat, and we know they're gimped easily. Thieves are a bigger threat than the dragons on the Ice Dragon indoor chapter due to the dragons in that chapter being easy to manipulate.

But ok, fine. George can stay. But he still benefits, just not as greatly as Gordon does.

I believe having to rely on special weapons only shows a statistical deficiency and only proves a spot on the tier list, especially because weapons are not exclusive to single characters unless they are designed to be. Just because having George using the Parthia is a good strategy does not mean he has exclusive rights to it as far as the tier list is concerned.

Characters able to do the same task with less rare or expensive weapons is far more efficient.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Chainey

[grandjackal]

You can just block the forts and pretty much win the Volcano chapter automatically be it for the sake of safety or grinding EXP.

The Ice Dragons aren't that hard either on the outdoor chapter. Only the initial swarm is of any threat, and we know they're gimped easily. Thieves are a bigger threat than the dragons on the Ice Dragon indoor chapter due to the dragons in that chapter being easy to manipulate.

I believe having to rely on special weapons only shows a statistical deficiency and only proves a spot on the tier list, especially because weapons are not exclusive to single characters unless they are designed to be. Just because having George using the Parthia is a good strategy does not mean he has exclusive rights to it as far as the tier list is concerned.

Characters able to do the same task with less rare or expensive weapons is far more efficient.

I just wanna say that having more ready and able units for the volcano chapter not only makes us go faster, but the enemies that come after you still come for experience as we get closer to finishing the chapter. Maximizes efficiency and gets you a bit extra exp. That and it makes the chapter more epic, but that's nothing to do wi th the topic here.

As for George, the only others able to use it are Gordon and Ryan. Lol Ryan, and Gordon...is debatable. Otherwise, until Kashim gets the weapon rank quite a bit later, George has pretty much exclusive rights to the damn thing. If you can prove Gordon is worth using till the dragon valley chapter where he will be rushing past George on a rocket car, I'd love to hear it.

Seriously, Gordon needs some love for a change.

[Rodykitty]

Gordon only needs like, 9 levels to use it, and he has quite a bit of time to get those levels.

I just wanna say that having more ready and able units for the volcano chapter not only makes us go faster, but the enemies that come after you still come for experience as we get closer to finishing the chapter. Maximizes efficiency and gets you a bit extra exp.

The thing is, George doesn't want extra EXP. He doesn't benefit from it at all. Using EXP as an argument for George is not a bright idea, because he's pretty much a Jeigan at that point.

He can most certainly help weaken enemies, but he doesn't want kills that others want.

[grandjackal]

Gordon only needs like, 9 levels to use it, and he has quite a bit of time to get those levels.

The thing is, George doesn't want extra EXP. He doesn't benefit from it at all. Using EXP as an argument for George is not a bright idea, because he's pretty much a Jeigan at that point.

He can most certainly help weaken enemies, but he doesn't want kills that others want.

Fine fine, George exp reasoning is balls. But with that in mind...Gordon only needs one measly point of speed to double with iron, so his offense will be pretty decent for a while. Granted he has a slowdown time for a bit, but he should have gotten said levels by then. Gets awesome levels from Partia use then, gets decent levels with his growths (not spectacular, just decent), then promotes and becomes a bow god. Throw in his pretty cool early game use... Dare I say Gordon needs to rise?

Man Shannan, you're uncool. Always in, being a dick and refuting my points... I want Chiki back.

[Rodykitty]

George is kept where he is.

Ricardo out of Bottom Tier, just like asked.

Gordon rises within Low Tier.

Banetou out of Bottom tier and into Low Tier.

=Top Tier=

Sirius

Paola

Katua

Oguma

Marth

Linda

=High Tier=

Nabarl

Feena

Chainy

Minerva

Wendel

Cecil

Kain

Roddy

Luke

Marisa

Maric

=Mid Tier=

Julian

Yubello

Elren

Kashim

Yumina

Sheeda

Abel

George

==Low Tier==

Gordon

Doga

Samuto

Machis

Ryan

Ricardo

Medea

Banetou

Astoria

=Bottom Tier=

Alan

Chiki

Warren

Roshe

=Bishop tier, based on hawtness=

Lena

Maria

Elice

Nyna

=Fail=

Est

Samson

=Worse than Est=

(Insert large gap here)

Sheema

Edited February 11, 2009 by Chainey

[grandjackal]

Astoria's listed twice.

Looks good to me though. I suppose Banut got moved to low because he can help in the ice dragon chapters with minimum use of a firestone so it can still be sold for quite a bit? Sounds good to me.

[Rodykitty]

Edited Astoria's position.

I suppose Banut got moved to low because he can help in the ice dragon chapters with minimum use of a firestone so it can still be sold for quite a bit? Sounds good to me.

Yep. Edited February 11, 2009 by Chainey