FE3, Book 2 tier list

[grandjackal]

Why is Ryan in low tier. He joins at the start of the game, and has good growths to keep him sharp throughout the game. What the heck, he is like the best bow unit in the game. Kashim has a high chance at getting critted, and that Gordon growths are too low to make him any good without levelling him with the Star Orb. As for Warren, I won't mention him. He's probably the crappiest unit in the game next to Alan.

Ryan starts significantly worse than Gordin, Doesn't end up significantly better for a good while, doesn't double for a long while (which Gordin can do with iron with one measly point in speed), is helpless compared to Gordin's nice starting defense. Kashim's bad luck doesn't matter, due to being an archer, he shouldn't be attacked in the first place. His offense also happens to spank BOTH of these guys. George also joins at a time reasonable for him to be pretty badass for a while. Ryan sucks until much later and is redundant. He's only better than Warren since he's meh and never improves. [/s] .

She will need an Angel Clothes to get her enough Hp though.

Minerva? Her HP is fine...and did Defense suddenly stop mattering?

Better use Repair Staff uses then. Because you won't get another one of these tomes until Chapter 19, and that you will get another Repair Staff in the Final Chapter.

Using Repair on Thoron? Are you nuts? Nevermind Partia and the Miracle Blade, let's repair the almighty...Thoron spell?

Yeah, and that there is no way that you can level her up without having her smack around her soldiers, or by using the arena in Chapter 19. She also is better than Doga (Draug).

Since when is she better than Draug? Draug can actually be useful for some time.

For one. You don't really have to worry aboutr the Hammerine Staff, because it's very likely that the computer AI won't control the Thieves to the village. As for the Rescue Staff, don't use it. You will need it to save (probably Feena), but it is possible to save her without it. And that you will need it to save Est and Medeia.

??? What are you smoking? The Hammerne house is like what the thieves go after immediately. Don't use the rescue staff? To save Feena (who needs no rescuing since Nabarl basically does everything), Est and MEDEIA no less? Those are like..the last things I'd use the rescue staff on. I could make defending the twins easier by rescuing marth and the chapter goes faster, I could make Khadain so much easier. Nevermind units that don't need "rescuing" / units I wouldn't blink about losing.

I fell for a trap, didn't I?

[Dat Nick]

Forgot about Castor, but does he even have the weapon level to use it for a while?

o snap, the only time where wlvl is ever an issue?

but meh, even if he can't, it's not like anybody else cares about manuals, so nobody's going to miss it if he gets one

Kashim has a high chance at getting critted,

WHY do people keep thinking this is a valid point?

Seriously, why?

I swear, people will do anything to nitpick at superior characters not being better than blatantly inferior ones.

but seriously, take it from somebody who's actually tried, using Ryan is more trouble than it's worth.

also, arguing arena abuse=fail. And no matter how you sugarcoat it Sheema still doesn't get to kill all the Gra soldiers because it's blatant favoritism.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Sweet Tooth

[Rodykitty]

Ryan is also using a class with awful Mov until promotion, and bad Mov is not helping him get level ups he desperately needs, especially since Book 2 uses a lot of harsher terrain for the early chapters.

[grandjackal]

o snap, the only time where wlvl is ever an issue?

but meh, even if he can't, it's not like anybody else cares about manuals, so nobody's going to miss it if he gets one

Good point. But if nobody else cares, why not sell it when I can just use someone who can use it without a manual? It's a funny thought though...Reading a manual to use the legendary weapon Parthia...

WHY do people keep thinking this is a valid point?

Seriously, why?

I swear, people will do anything to nitpick at superior characters not being better than blatantly inferior ones.

but seriously, take it from somebody who's actually tried, using Ryan is more trouble than it's worth.

also, arguing arena abuse=fail. And no matter how you sugarcoat it Sheema still doesn't get to kill all the Gra soldiers because it's blatant favoritism.

Luck's only a problem if their is someone who does the job just as well, but doesn't have to deal with off chances. Otherwise, it isn't. It is indeed pretty weak. Pointless with archers.

Agreed on Sheema. Even with the gra soldier favoritism, she doesn't magically become amazing.

[PuffPuff]

Ryan starts significantly worse than Gordin, Doesn't end up significantly better for a good while, doesn't double for a long while (which Gordin can do with iron with one measly point in speed), is helpless compared to Gordin's nice starting defense. Kashim's bad luck doesn't matter, due to being an archer, he shouldn't be attacked in the first place. His offense also happens to spank BOTH of these guys. George also joins at a time reasonable for him to be pretty badass for a while. Ryan sucks until much later and is redundant. He's only better than Warren since he's meh and never improves. [/s] .

Ryan is the only bow unit worthy to use the Partia. Gordon won't really get any good by levelling him without the orb fragments/Star Orb, and Luck is needed on any unit which Kashim lacks at meaning less avoid, and that he still can get critted by the Magicians (Thunder) and some bow unit enemies. If your going to make him any good, he will need a Goddess Statue. Well, George will get crappy level gains. The only thing advantageous about him is the he is someone to use that is if you don't feel like levelling Ryan.

Minerva? Her HP is fine...and did Defense suddenly stop mattering?

No. She'll need the extra Hp for the Final Chapter. Massive Spoiler9 Read AT YOUR OWN RISK)

You'll see. Since you have to bring her anyway in the Final Chapter, that is if you want the Good Ending.

Using Repair on Thoron? Are you nuts? Nevermind Partia and the Miracle Blade, let's repair the almighty...Thoron spell?

I was just making a suggestion. I don't really use it to repair Thoron. I would use it to repair the Aura, Excalibur, and the three best weapons.

Since when is she better than Draug? Draug can actually be useful for some time.

Afraid not. He gets low speed and luck. He will need a Speed Ring just to be able to double his enemies. Speed Rings aren't really an issue since there are three in the whole game without the Secret Shop. So will Sheema, but she has better stat gropwths than Doga, doesn't require a Knight's Proof, and is one of the few female Iron Clads in the series who is actually the best Iron Clad in Story 1.

??? What are you smoking? The Hammerne house is like what the thieves go after immediately. Don't use the rescue staff? To save Feena (who needs no rescuing since Nabarl basically does everything), Est and MEDEIA no less? Those are like..the last things I'd use the rescue staff on. I could make defending the twins easier by rescuing marth and the chapter goes faster, I could make Khadain so much easier. Nevermind units that don't need "rescuing" / units I wouldn't blink about losing.

Well, you will have a few extra uses to spare anyway. You still want to save Est for the triangle attack, and that Medeia doesn't really need to be saved with the Rescue Staff. You can still save her as you approach Hardain, but she will be alot harder to save though. I would still recommend the Rescue Staff to save her though.

I fell for a trap, didn't I?

I dunno lol

[Dat Nick]

Ryan is the only bow unit worthy to use the Partia.

Hi, I'm Kashim. You seem to have forgotten I exist, and unlike PRIVATE RYAN, have not only a base speed stat that doesn't suck, but also move that isn't piss slow.

uck is needed on any unit which Kashim lacks at meaning less avoid

oh knock it off already

Luck didn't move Sirius out of top tier. It's not going to move Kashim out.

also, avoid sucks in FE3, even more impractical than FEDS

and that he still can get critted by the Magicians (Thunder)

By what, 1, 2% chance, tops? His luck DOES exist, you know. Even if it's not very high.

If your going to make him any good, he will need a Goddess Statue.

blimey

saying luck is actually an issue is one thing

saying it keeps him from being any good is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard all day

Nobody else cares about luck, btw. So even if Kashim DID need a luck icon, nobody cares that he has to use it.

Afraid not. He gets low speed and luck.

Just so you know

it's going to be at least three times better than Sheema's spd when Sheema actually joins

and jesus, for the last time, nobody gives a shit about luck

Also, Doga's spd is very comparable to Ryan's. Just thought you might find that interesting.

You still want to save Est for the triangle attack,

No you don't, any debater worth their salt will tell you Triangle Attacks are bollocks and are even more bollocks when you have to use a fail unit to actually use them.

So will Sheema, but she has better stat gropwths than Doga

yeah great

too bad doga's promoted stats will be much, much, MUCH higher than Sheema's miserable epic fail bases

doesn't require a Knight's Proof

that are buyable

Also, not using a knight's proof didn't help old man J. Did it?

and is one of the few female Iron Clads in the series who is actually the best Iron Clad in Story 1.

I stand corrected, that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

I would still recommend the Rescue Staff to save her though.

Why? Why save a unit you're not going to use?

Edited February 9, 2009 by Sweet Tooth

[grandjackal]

Ryan worthy? Pfeh! What is worthy? Using it endgame? Kashim and Gordin aren't bad endgame. They're pretty good actually by then. George comes with it, can use it, and is pretty badass for a good while. They're more worthy for putting it to better use.

Stop bringing up luck too, seriously. Luck is probably the most pointless stat in FE3. Having bad luck is no loss. ESPECIALLY for archers. That and the fact you're trying to argue RYAN above Kashim with nothing but LUCK is hilarious. Giggleworthy. The fact you even think he needs goddess statues is hilarious. Goddess Statues might as well be money.

Great thing about mages is there aren't many of them and Kashim has mad strength. He could one shot them with Iron.

I can't believe you're saying Sheema's better than Doga. Doga will actually have speed by the time she shows up, he's pretty awesome at the beginning to help lure those painful dragon knight and has actual stuff to do, and he'll absolutely stomp her till the end. Whoop dee doo, give her the star orb. Nevermind she'll get her ass kicked in the arena and lose you money, but for her to level up fast enough, you'll have to wait until she gets the Gradius (which she has to wait for anyways, AND it comes pretty damn late). So...We're giving her the orbs for slowly leveling up...The freaking Gradius when you no longer have the orbs...all to make her usable? Here's the problem...Doga can do the same thing without sucking as hard AND has been useful for longer. Sheema sucks. The end.

The rescue staff is meant for making chapters easier (like the defending the twins chapter), faster (like getting Marth from Minerva's house to the castle), and rescuing good units in real danger. Hell, she's the main reason you can get the Miracle Blade early and safely no less.

[Dat Nick]

Oh, just in case you didn't believe me about Doga:

Doga: lvl 6, 4 spd base, 40% growth

Ryan: lvl 1, 4 spd base, 40% growth

lmao? Lance wt, sure, but let's also not forget that Doga ties move rather than losing it, Has far superior durability, better offense earlygame, and actually starts doubling EARLIER than Ryan since while Ryan doubles in fewer levels, Doga actually has something called "stats" and will as such have a far easier time gaining levels. And btw, even being comparable to Doga is a bad thing. Being worse than Doga is almost impossible. But somehow, Ryan (and Sheema) BOTH manage to do it.

[grandjackal]

Speaking of Doga, him>Samson. Being useful earlygame to help slaughter dragon riders>Being redundant. Let's also remember that recruiting him means you need to recruit Sheema, who's recruiting deprives you of easy exp till after recruitment. Why not just kill the gra soldiers, kill Sheema and kill Samson for even more exp? Astram isn't exactly better than the miracle sword he carries either and considering how easy it is to kill him in the desert......

He ain't great, but he's better than these repeats.

[Dat Nick]

rly

At least recruiting Doga doesn't blow a ton of potential EXP.

In fact, we should have a new tier: "Fucks you over and totally not worth it tier." Sheema and Samson aren't worth recruiting. Chiki is a waste of 18k in a game where funding is tight.

[grandjackal]

rly

At least recruiting Doga doesn't blow a ton of potential EXP.

In fact, we should have a new tier: "Fucks you over and totally not worth it tier." Sheema and Samson aren't worth recruiting. Chiki is a waste of 18k in a game where funding is tight.

Chiki is worth recruiting just to sell that sucker of a dragonstone. We aren't using her, but we are recruiting her. Waiting later to recruit Astram deprives you of an awesome sword that's perfectly usable in exchange for a mediocre sword unit in a game choked with sword units, many being MUCH better than he. Samson can't even say that,he just gives you another silver sword at the cost of making a chapter go by jaggedly and not being great. With this in mind, Sheema is the absolute worst character in the game. Worse than Roshe, yes. At least Roshe's weapon comes with no strings attached.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Rodykitty]

I never had a problem not having the Miracle Sword early on. You likely can get by just fine without it, and I think it's worth it to wait, not because of Astoria himself, but because then you won't have to go out of your way to get a weapon that is overkill for that point in the game especially if you'll save turns not bothering.

[Dat Nick]

That's true. But using Chiki as anything BUT a benchwarmer hurts funds, so the only way you can get the 18k is if you don't use her at all, so while she's not technically hurting turncount, if you want her not to screw you over, she cannot EVER enter play.

[PuffPuff]

and jesus, for the last time, nobody gives a shit about luck

Well, no one wants restart the chapter because of dying from a critical hit. That is the only thing that Luck really matters.

I can't believe you're saying Sheema's better than Doga. Doga will actually have speed by the time she shows up, he's pretty awesome at the beginning to help lure those painful dragon knight and has actual stuff to do, and he'll absolutely stomp her till the end. Whoop dee doo, give her the star orb. Nevermind she'll get her ass kicked in the arena and lose you money, but for her to level up fast enough, you'll have to wait until she gets the Gradius (which she has to wait for anyways, AND it comes pretty damn late). So...We're giving her the orbs for slowly leveling up...The freaking Gradius when you no longer have the orbs...all to make her usable? Here's the problem...Doga can do the same thing without sucking as hard AND has been useful for longer. Sheema sucks. The end.

Sheema can easily ow1n in the arena by not betting those stupid high bets except the lowest and highest bets. The lowest bet pits her against Priests with Thunder and Elfire. And Thoron at lower levels. Use Pure Water for this. And the highest bet pits her against Dark Priests with Elfire. Thoron at higher levels. If you are going to pit her in the arena with the Thoron book enemies, better give her the Light Orb, as it prevents critical hits. Every other bet will just eat up your money, and that she will need a Speed Ring to be able to stand any chance in the arena against the Berserker (Silver Axe) enemies at higher levels. Also, for the Dark Priest enemies at the last gold wagering bet.

Speaking of Doga, him>Samson. Being useful earlygame to help slaughter dragon riders>Being redundant. Let's also remember that recruiting him means you need to recruit Sheema, who's recruiting deprives you of easy exp till after recruitment. Why not just kill the gra soldiers, kill Sheema and kill Samson for even more exp? Astram isn't exactly better than the miracle sword he carries either and considering how easy it is to kill him in the desert......

He ain't great, but he's better than these repeats.

Only that you won't get a free Power Ring by not recruiting her.

I never had a problem not having the Miracle Sword early on. You likely can get by just fine without it, and I think it's worth it to wait, not because of Astoria himself, but because then you won't have to go out of your way to get a weapon that is overkill for that point in the game especially if you'll save turns not bothering.

And not worth wasting Repair Staff uses to repair either that you can have unlimited uses for with the Star Orb in Chapters 14-20 that you will have for availibility, and that you will have the sword anyway in Chapter 16 by recruiting him.. =]

Edited February 9, 2009 by Laylea

[grandjackal]

I never had a problem not having the Miracle Sword early on. You likely can get by just fine without it, and I think it's worth it to wait, not because of Astoria himself, but because then you won't have to go out of your way to get a weapon that is overkill for that point in the game especially if you'll save turns not bothering.

You can indeed get by fine without it, but you can go through even better with it that early. Lots of dragons on the horizon. It gives a swordsman a good chance at killing a dragon and getting buttloads of exp with it. Can be tossed around, so the experience can be well spread. It isn't overkill, considering in the dragon chapters you'll either be using magic or dragonslayers to kill them. Having another option that gives nice benefits is a clear good. You get it for free too. If anything, the time you do recruit him is when it's overkill.

Not to mention you don't exactly have to far out of your way to get it. I brought up how, Marty clarified.

Add-on: Good point, but it's STILL recruiting her.

Laela...Last two points, what the hell else will I use the repair staff on other than an uber weapon I can get early that gives me hax exp? Astram's not worth getting the miracle blade later. By the time Sheema shows up, no one gives a damn about the power ring she DROPS when killed.

The arena argument is hilarious...She CAN do it, but she needs the low bets AND pure water? Why not throw stat-ups at her? You are thinking of giving her stat-ups just to have her fight in the arena? Before you say why not throw stat ups at her, I'll throw them at Doga which he puts to better use due to having better stats by then.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Dat Nick]

Well, no one wants restart the chapter because of dying from a critical hit.

Odds of this happening never exceeding 5% and almost never exceeding 2.

Sheema can easily ow1n in the arena

...Remember what Tommy Lee Jones told Harrison Ford in the Sewer?

That's right, Richard, I don't care. I'm not trying to solve a mystery here. What's more, ANYBODY is awesome in the arena so this point is 100% invalid and anybody who's trying to argue it as valid should really stop. Next.

Only that you won't get a free Power Ring by not recruiting her.

oh noes

no powah ring when everybody in my army is one rounding everything already

and It's probably a drop, anyway.

[grandjackal]

and It's probably a drop, anyway.

It is a drop, all things in the enemy "item" slot is more the "dropped" slot.

[Rodykitty]

You can indeed get by fine without it, but you can go through even better with it that early. Lots of dragons on the horizon. It gives a swordsman a good chance at killing a dragon and getting buttloads of exp with it. Can be tossed around, so the experience can be well spread. It isn't overkill, considering in the dragon chapters you'll either be using magic or dragonslayers to kill them. Having another option that gives nice benefits is a clear good. You get it for free too. If anything, the time you do recruit him is when it's overkill.

That is true, though I did manage to clear the desert chapter without Astoria ever showing up. Are you sure it's possible without wasting turns?

Also, you don't HAVE to use the Hammerne just to use it. Efficiency is better weighed on how well units are using more mundane weapons and how well you can conserve your better weapons. The less you have to use the Hammerne staff, the better off you are.

[grandjackal]

That is true, though I did manage to clear the desert chapter without Astoria ever showing up. Are you sure it's possible without wasting turns?

Also, you don't HAVE to use the Hammerne just to use it. Efficiency is better weighed on how well units are using more mundane weapons and how well you can conserve your better weapons. The less you have to use the Hammerne staff, the better off you are.

Lemme guess, used the rescue staff?

Don't HAVE to, but the legend weapons come with an extra benefit, that being gaining double exp. It's better to use mundane weapons, it's true, but only when unecessary....ahhh, now I see the point. Parthia is better used due to the flying dragons, Miracle you're still double shotting. But still, not everyone has dragonslayers, and double exp dragons is just plain juicy. Unless I forgot they sell them at the Kahdain market.

[PuffPuff]

You can indeed get by fine without it, but you can go through even better with it that early. Lots of dragons on the horizon. It gives a swordsman a good chance at killing a dragon and getting buttloads of exp with it. Can be tossed around, so the experience can be well spread. It isn't overkill, considering in the dragon chapters you'll either be using magic or dragonslayers to kill them. Having another option that gives nice benefits is a clear good. You get it for free too. If anything, the time you do recruit him is when it's overkill.

Not to mention you don't exactly have to far out of your way to get it. I brought up how, Marty clarified.

Add-on: Good point, but it's STILL recruiting her.

Laela...Last two points, what the hell else will I use the repair staff on other than an uber weapon I can get early that gives me hax exp? Astram's not worth getting the miracle blade later. By the time Sheema shows up, no one gives a damn about the power ring she DROPS when killed.

The arena argument is hilarious...She CAN do it, but she needs the low bets AND pure water? Why not throw stat-ups at her? You are thinking of giving her stat-ups just to have her fight in the arena? Before you say why not throw stat ups at her, I'll throw them at Doga which he puts to better use due to having better stats by then.

Get it earlier if you'd like, but I would wait until Chapter 16 to get it. I'd like to save my Repair Staff uses for the Partia, that I will be using alot during the chapters that the Star Orb isn't availible. Also, for the Aura and Excalibur tomes. As for the Power Ring...Other than finding it in the desert Chapter 11, or obtaining it in a town in Chapter 16 to give the ring to Sheeda and or Chainey, it might as well be sold for money.

...Remember what Tommy Lee Jones told Harrison Ford in the Sewer?

That's right, Richard, I don't care. I'm not trying to solve a mystery here. What's more, ANYBODY is awesome in the arena so this point is 100% invalid and anybody who's trying to argue it as valid should really stop. Next.

oh noes

lol I know that the arena is invalid in a debate. But I still recruit Sheema not only because she is one of my favorite characters, but I also train her in the arena to get the money anyway to afford the stat up items in the secret shop.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Laylea

[Dat Nick]

But I still recruit Sheema not only because she is one of my favorite characters, but I also train her in the arena to get the money anyway to afford the stat up items in the secret shop.

Quite frankly, scarlet, my dear, I don't give a damn how you play. It doesn't change the fact that it's skewing things in favor for Sheema.

Also, here's something you all ignored. Just because you get Mercurius in C11 doesn't mean you have to USE it right away. You can save it for chapters where it might actually come in handy.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Sweet Tooth

[grandjackal]

Get it earlier if you'd like, but I would wait until Chapter 16 to get it. I'd like to save my Repair Staff uses for the Partia, that I will be using alot during the chapters that the Star Orb isn't availible. Also, for the Aura and Excalibur tomes. As for the Power Ring...Other than finding it in the desert Chapter 11, or obtaining it in a town in Chapter 16 to give the ring to Sheeda and or Chainey, it might as well be sold for money.

lol I know that the arena is invalid in a debate. But I still recruit Sheema not only because she is one of my favorite characters, but I also train her in the arena to get the money anyway to afford the stat up items in the secret shop.

Partia and Miracle Blade are the only things to spend repair uses on aside from maybe once on one of Linda's spells. I wouldn't waste the WHOLE thing on Partia alone.

*facepalm* Stat ups...on Chainey?...Chainey?...Chainey!? You might as well be tossing stat ups into a black hole. Only good one he makes use of is Angel Robes. But the power ring? He doesn't need stat-ups! He morphs, that is his stat-ups!

...So this whole thing about Sheema in a tier list topic was basically to say "I like using Sheema"?...*stunned*

EDIT: Early as chapter 11 and don't have to use it immediately. Point in that. People don't use the legend weapons in FE6 right away. Miracle Blade is the same.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Rodykitty]

Partia and Miracle Blade are the only things to spend repair uses on aside from maybe once on one of Linda's spells. I wouldn't waste the WHOLE thing on Partia alone.

Even then, all of these will likely be used sparingly, making Hammene use very infrequent, if at all.

Lemme guess, used the rescue staff?

I don't remember using the rescue staff for whatever reason on that chapter. I simply rushed Marth to the house, then had him move on the most comfortable dirt path to get to the throne.

He doesn't need stat-ups! He morphs, that is his stat-ups!

This isn't FEDS. Chainey actually does want Angelic Robes in this game to save needless EXP hogging.

Though Laylea seems to be arguing giving rings to Chainey, which is a big no no.

[PuffPuff]

Partia and Miracle Blade are the only things to spend repair uses on aside from maybe once on one of Linda's spells. I wouldn't waste the WHOLE thing on Partia alone.

*facepalm* Stat ups...on Chainey?...Chainey?...Chainey!? You might as well be tossing stat ups into a black hole. Only good one he makes use of is Angel Robes. But the power ring? He doesn't need stat-ups! He morphs, that is his stat-ups!

...So this whole thing about Sheema in a tier list topic was basically to say "I like using Sheema"?...*stunned*

EDIT: Early as chapter 11 and don't have to use it immediately. Point in that. People don't use the legend weapons in FE6 right away. Miracle Blade is the same.

I don't waste no more than 2 repair Staff uses on the Partia, as there are actually alot less bow users than there are sword users. I use the other three uses on whatever that I need it on throughout the rest of the game. As for Chainey, I don't use Chainey for one. As for second, I use the stat up items (Mainly Angel Clothes and Dragonshields) on the good units on the Top tier list/Middle tier lists, and for Minerva, Maric, Sirius, and Julian to make them even better for the Final Chapter. Wouldn't want the game to be anticlimatic without the stat up items.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Laylea

[Dat Nick]

That's what the furry basically said, yeah. Robes good, rings bad.