xanatha Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 when i said "care very much" i didn't mean it as if they cared about them in an emotional sense.to the senate, the ravens were a very powerful tool that they had at their disposal. considering this, they would obviously care very much that their tool is in good shape, since otherwise the ravens wouldn't be very useful to them. basically this, if you had a very nice toy that you could do almost anything with, you would obviously take care of it, wouldn't you? i'm not saying that the senate suddenly grew a heart, i'm saying that as long as the raven clan can be of any use to them they'll make sure that it doesn't die out or something like that. once they're not of any use, they'll just dispose of them like any other broken tool. Sorry. I guess I got you wrong. But what about the Mad King's war? Why did the senate let Kilvas fight alongside Daein? That wasn't a favor for Begnion at all: while Kilvans killed Begnion soldiers, they died themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 But what about the Mad King's war? Why did the senate let Kilvas fight alongside Daein? That wasn't a favor for Begnion at all: while Kilvans killed Begnion soldiers, they died themselves. The Crimean Army had Sephiran and Sanaki's approval to add Begnion reinforcements. The Senate couldn't really say no to those two, could they? Or did you mean something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanatha Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 The Crimean Army had Sephiran and Sanaki's approval to add Begnion reinforcements. The Senate couldn't really say no to those two, could they?Or did you mean something else? Well, sorry, but I meant that the senate could hold the ravens back. Of course, it would seem strange to everyone if Kilvas started to fight alongside Crimea/Begnion just like that, but the senate could make the ravens return to Kilvas and not let the join the war at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Wood Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Well, sorry, but I meant that the senate could hold the ravens back. Of course, it would seem strange to everyone if Kilvas started to fight alongside Crimea/Begnion just like that, but the senate could make the ravens return to Kilvas and not let the join the war at all. Since Sephiran was behind everything I'd say that he wouldn't care if Begnions died by the hands of Kilvas. He wanted everyone to die anyway, and having the war not being one-sided greatly increases its chance of continuing. Because Sephiran is in charge the senators had no choice, but to listen to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Well, sorry, but I meant that the senate could hold the ravens back. Of course, it would seem strange to everyone if Kilvas started to fight alongside Crimea/Begnion just like that, but the senate could make the ravens return to Kilvas and not let the join the war at all. why would they bother? when they battled the crows, it was with the troops that Sanaki provided, not the senate. they only care for themselves, and having Sanaki's troops dead could potentially weaken her power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanatha Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 why would they bother? when they battled the crows, it was with the troops that Sanaki provided, not the senate. they only care for themselves, and having Sanaki's troops dead could potentially weaken her power. I thought that by saying that the senators cared for the ravens, you meant that they'd prefer to keep them from harms way, so that the senators could use the ravens when they needed. Or are you saying that the senators would rather have their loyal ally, Kilvas, fighting soldiers from their own country? ((Did I express this wrong? )) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I thought that by saying that the senators cared for the ravens, you meant that they'd prefer to keep them from harms way, so that the senators could use the ravens when they needed. Or are you saying that the senators would rather have their loyal ally, Kilvas, fighting soldiers from their own country?((Did I express this wrong? )) it wasn't as if all of Kilvas was in that battlefield. And besides, their main objective was to gain control of Begnion, the Ravens were only a tool to get there. If Sanaki's troops were weakened by the Ravens, it would be much easier to achieve their goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanatha Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 it wasn't as if all of Kilvas was in that battlefield. And besides, their main objective was to gain control of Begnion, the Ravens were only a tool to get there. If Sanaki's troops were weakened by the Ravens, it would be much easier to achieve their goal. Hmm... I guees you're right. This seems very convincing. But what about the ravens' retreat? Did the senators actually care if Kilvas joined the war at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Hmm... I guees you're right. This seems very convincing.But what about the ravens' retreat? Did the senators actually care if Kilvas joined the war at all? i'm guessing they really didn't care if they did or not, but they certainly understood that it could be of their convenience if they were involved. i guess they just allowed them to do whatever they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanatha Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) i'm guessing they really didn't care if they did or not, but they certainly understood that it could be of their convenience if they were involved. i guess they just allowed them to do whatever they wanted. Yeah... You're right. One more thing: All the gold Kilvas gather, could Naesala possibly think of buying Kilvas free from the blood pact? Edited February 18, 2009 by xanatha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Yeah... You're right.One more thing: All the gold Kilvas gather, could Naesala possibly think of buying Kilvas free from the blood pact? i don't think the senators would accept it. most likely they used it to buy food from the other laguz countries. remember, Kilvas is an incredibly poor country where there's not much to eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanatha Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 i don't think the senators would accept it. most likely they used it to buy food from the other laguz countries.remember, Kilvas is an incredibly poor country where there's not much to eat. Well, I don't think they would, either. I just thought that Naesala might hope that they would. The thing that disturbs me is just that Phoenicis shouldn't have much more access to food than Kilvas has. Phoenicis attacks Begnion ships only, but that's only for revenge. Naesala even sells his best friend to a human to get gold, but what about Tibarn? Phoenicis really shouldn't have much more gold than Kilvas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Well, I don't think they would, either. I just thought that Naesala might hope that they would. The thing that disturbs me is just that Phoenicis shouldn't have much more access to food than Kilvas has. Phoenicis attacks Begnion ships only, but that's only for revenge. Naesala even sells his best friend to a human to get gold, but what about Tibarn? Phoenicis really shouldn't have much more gold than Kilvas. don't quote me on this, i'm not all too sure about it. its not much about how much gold each country has. its that Kilvas is mostly mountains and stuff, where not much grows. meanwhile, Phoenicis is a more fertile area, supporting more plant and animal life. agriculturally, Kilvas is really poor, which makes them rely on other nations to survive. Edited February 18, 2009 by Nyx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanatha Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 don't quote me on this, i'm not all too sure about it.its not much about how much gold each country has. its that Kilvas is mostly mountains and stuff, where not much grows. meanwhile, Phoenicis is a more fertile area, supporting more plant and animal life. agriculturally, Kilvas is really poor, which makes them rely on other nations to survive. I guess you're right. Again. But why isn't Phoenicis sharing? As long as their food supply isn't close to its limit, then why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Changed by VASM :( Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 first, that post dealt with the Ravens pirating Begnion ships. Phoenicis wasn't even part of the equation. and i was talking about FE9, not 10, specifically about why was the raven clan permitted to continue raiding Begnion ships when the Begnion senators could have killed them anytime. Assume Lekain had control over every Raven in Kilvas. Now being the jealous envious prick he is, if another senator had a Piece of Art or a Laguz Slave that Lekain wanted I doubt he'd hesitate to utilize the Raven Clan to take it for himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Assume Lekain had control over every Raven in Kilvas.Now being the jealous envious prick he is, if another senator had a Piece of Art or a Laguz Slave that Lekain wanted I doubt he'd hesitate to utilize the Raven Clan to take it for himself. and that would be stupid. there is power in numbers. If they were feuding about petty things like pieces of art or laguz slaves, they wouldn't be able to work for what they really wanted; to gain control of Begnion. If there wasn't a sort of collaboration between the senators, they really would have no hope to overthrow the power and influence of the Empress of Begnion. They understood this. If it wasn't for the fact that they were willing to work together and cover up each other, they wouldn't have been able to do even half the things they did. Lekain was the leader and mastermind behind the Senate's actions. He knew his stuff, so to say that he would let some petty jealousy get in the way of his master plot is like saying you will cripple one of your teammates because you want to look good. you just don't do that, because you want to win. I guess you're right. Again.But why isn't Phoenicis sharing? As long as their food supply isn't close to its limit, then why? they sell it to Kilvas. Phoenicis is obviously not going to support a whole nation for free. they have to feed themselves too. and besides, they can get money out of them. money makes the world go round. Edited February 18, 2009 by Nyx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanatha Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 they sell it to Kilvas. Phoenicis is obviously not going to support a whole nation for free. they have to feed themselves too.and besides, they can get money out of them. money makes the world go round. Sure, but since Kilvas was in such great need of the food and all, you'd think that Phoenicis would do more. When Ike's army ends up in Goldoa in part 3, Tibarn reminds Deghinsea of how Goldoa ignored the suffering of the other laguz tribes in the past. When Naesala goes so far as to sell Reyson, Tibarn should have seen how great Kilvas' need was, if he didn't already know, and maybe help the ravens instead of threating their king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Sure, but since Kilvas was in such great need of the food and all, you'd think that Phoenicis would do more.When Ike's army ends up in Goldoa in part 3, Tibarn reminds Deghinsea of how Goldoa ignored the suffering of the other laguz tribes in the past. When Naesala goes so far as to sell Reyson, Tibarn should have seen how great Kilvas' need was, if he didn't already know, and maybe help the ravens instead of threating their king. Naesala never explained himself at least not to Tibarn, and Tibarn isn't a king that seems to think much before acting, especially regarding beorc. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanatha Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Naesala never explained himself at least not to Tibarn, and Tibarn isn't a king that seems to think much before acting, especially regarding beorc.:( Hmm, true. But if Kilvas has bought food from Phoenicis a little now and again, then Tibarn should at least have a clue of Kilvas' situation. Edited February 18, 2009 by xanatha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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