Ross Question

[Deity]

I can transform him into Warrior/Beserker/Hero.

So, which is the way to go?

[Florete]

Journeyman > Fighter > Hero I believe is usually the preferred way to go for Ross.

I personally prefer Pirate > Berserker.

[Ϲharlie]

So, which is the way to go?

Whichever you want. Hero is arguably the best because of the +2 speed bonus. Pirate => Berserker gets the same, except it's spread over two promotions. Warrior doesn't seem to get as much love, even though it's my favorite of the three.

[Deity]

I see. Thanks, both of you. I shall go with Hero at the end. ^^

[Ragnell]

I would suggest Hero as well, for the same reasons as stated above. But in the future I would suggest turning Ross into a Pirate and then Berserker. He rocks that way.

[Deity]

I would suggest Hero as well, for the same reasons as stated above. But in the future I would suggest turning Ross into a Pirate and then Berserker. He rocks that way.

Why does he rock? Is he a better fighter that way?

[Nestling]

30 Strength Cap, and critical bonus.

[Deity]

30 Strength Cap, and critical bonus.

Are you serious? In that case, does that equal instant kills?

[Nestling]

Considering he reaches that 30 STR cap, and he gets good Speed and Skill.

Use Garcia support and a Killer Axe for the best results.

[Mr.Shiu and Watch]

Berserker unless your using colm.

[Ϲharlie]

Too bad Ross isn't likely to reach that nice strength cap without lots of leveling in the Tower or Ruins. His speed isn't exactly something to write home about either.

[Junkhead]

Pirate, then Berserker, because you have Garcia to go Hero and Garcia is really good.

[Yuli]

I go for Hero. Because I like it.

[Erk]

Pirate, then Berserker, because you have Garcia to go Hero and Garcia is really good.

This. My best combo has been lvl 20/20 Garcia hero with A support with Ross 10/20/20 Berzerker. They are epic together.

[Ϲharlie]

Garcia is incredibly slow, though. He's one of the slowest characters in the game.

[Robert]

I despise colm, and make ross a berserker every time.

I do not think the Hero's caps suits Ross. They cap his str at 25, and his speed and skill, which will never get to 25 and 30.

Berserker has better caps that suit his stats.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Asvel

[Ϲharlie]

Let me get this straight. Ross shouldn't go Hero because he can't reach the 30 skill cap or 26 speed cap? That makes no sense, since Berserkers cap skill at 29 and speed at 28. The higher strength cap is a point if you're using the Tower/Ruins/Whatever to get Ross up to a point where he can actually reach it or at least come close.

[Florete]

After actually looking it up, I can't see how any path is better than Pirate > Berserker for him. It gets him a total of +2 Speed (One at each promotion) and 5 Con (+2 as a Pirate, +3 as a Berserker), while Fighter > Hero gets him +3 Con at first, but no Speed (Which means they even out whenever he wields a weapon too heavy for him), and later gets him +2 Speed (evening out the Speed gain) but no extra Con. So the Berserker path has an advantage of +3 Con and better AS as a Pirate when wielding an Iron Axe or a Hatchet while the Hero path has Swords. Berserkers also have water/mountains to cross. The only downside I can see is that there is only one Ocean Seal, but you can buy another by the time you might want to promote Colm anyway.

Conclusion: I'm now convinced Berserker is Ross' best path.

[Junkhead]

After actually looking it up, I can't see how any path is better than Pirate > Berserker for him. It gets him a total of +2 Speed (One at each promotion) and 5 Con (+2 as a Pirate, +3 as a Berserker), while Fighter > Hero gets him +3 Con at first, but no Speed (Which means they even out whenever he wields a weapon too heavy for him), and later gets him +2 Speed (evening out the Speed gain) but no extra Con. So the Berserker path has an advantage of +3 Con and better AS as a Pirate when wielding an Iron Axe or a Hatchet while the Hero path has Swords. Berserkers also have water/mountains to cross. The only downside I can see is that there is only one Ocean Seal, but you can buy another by the time you might want to promote Colm anyway.

Conclusion: I'm now convinced Berserker is Ross' best path.

True, and don't forget the extra 25% crit, he would be like a slower version of a swordmaster that uses axes.

[Tino]

That would be 15%, actually <_<

[Mekkah]

The only downside I can see is that there is only one Ocean Seal, but you can buy another by the time you might want to promote Colm anyway.

Colm joins one chapter after Ross, but also at 2/0 while Ross joins at effectively -10/0. And to make it worse, Colm has a class in-built EXP bonus, so he gains EXP faster than Ross even if they're on the same level. So Colm is likely ready for promotion way before Ross. Lockpicking may slow his leveling down a bit, but not enough.

If you're using both, I'd say promote Colm with the Seal and let Ross go Hero.

If you're only using Colm for thieving, then give the Seal to Ross, since Berserker > Hero for him, and sub Colm for Rennac/custom keys when that's more beneficial.

[Junkhead]

That would be 15%, actually <_<

Yeah, sorry.

[Reaver]

Ross has quite a few promotion routes:

Fighter>Hero

Figher>Warrior

Pirate>Warrior

Pirate>Berserker

Journeyman>Hero

Journeyman>Journeyman

I want to, firstly, eliminate routes involving the Journeyman. No Con bonuses + axes = fail.

Secondly, eliminate warriors. Bows are cool and are good against flyers, but since there aren't enough flyers to warrant considering bows and 15% critical and more SPD from the Berserker outweights the warrior. Swords and more SPD also beat out the warrior class.

That leaves Fighter>Hero and Pirate>Berserker.

Obviously the Colm issue exists. However, that shouldn't count against the pirate route. Because Colm's fighting utility is dependent on his promotion to an Assassin (he needs the +15% CRT), he'll lose his ability to steal and that's what's important. You can raise Colm to 20/0 and get all of the good benefits; promotion isn't necessary for Colm to function as a unit. If you want Colm as a combat unit, his offensive parameters parallel Joshua's and Neimi's. Other units are better suited for the job, anyway.

The middle step is sort of irrelevant. It comes down to trifling one bonus leads in areas that don't really make that much of a difference (SKL, e.g.) and for the most part the bonuses are equal. What matters is the final step, however.

So Berserker v. Hero. It's 15% Critical against WT control, agruably, considering Water/Peakwalk comes into play so few times that it's ridiculous.

"BUT ROSS'S CAPS!"

Ross will never get to the point where his caps become super crippling. Let's assume 10/20/12 as an endgame level; obviously factoring in the tower warps this argument a little. At that level, Ross has a 60% chance of having more than 25 STR. However, if you drop even a single level drop that to 50%. Another? 40%. Ross will most likely overshoot the cap by 1 STR as a Hero, so really, it doesn't make that much of a difference; especially with his attack. 36 MT with a Killer Axe is 36 MT with a killer axe, 3x that should be enough to take out most enemies. Even doubling with that amount of STR guarantees a good 41 damage (assumed 15 DEF) a lot of the time. He's taking out a lot. Add another +3-5 for supports and you're getting maybe 51 damage per round. Things are dying, regardless of that 1 point of STR.

So the question becomes HIT/EVA v. Critical. STR won't be that much of a factor. Assuming S in Axes, let's see how much this critical difference really matters:

+8 critical from SKL, +5 from S in Axes, +30 from Killer Axe, assuming generous supports +20 from A Garcia/B Lute = 63 CRT.

So 63 CRT represents Hero, 78 represents Berserker (add class bonus).

So, with one hit/crt Ross should take out most enemies. Therefore, the chance of Ross NOT criticalling on two hits should be important; as then both will kill but now Ross has choice of swords when he wants them. To calculate, I'm going to multiply the chance of not criticalling by itself.

Hero: .37 x .37 x 100% = 13.69%

Berserker .22 x .22 x 100% = 4.84%

So, ultimately Berserker Ross has roughly a 9% greater chance of killing. 1/10 seems like a lot.

Let's see his EVA though: he has 57 naturally through stats, +25 from supports. 82 EVA total at 10/20/12.

So Hero Ross has WT control; at all points he'll be neutral. Berserker Ross may have -15 at times. So we'll see WTD Berserker v. Neutral Hero and then Natural Berseker v. WTA Ross; Ross will always have WTA as a Hero when Berserker has WTA so any comparisons in that regard are silly. Paladins have 13 SKL and 7 LUK with Silver Lances, so I'll use 104 as my HIT for these calculations. I understand this will vary, but 104 seems like an okay number to use to get a rough feel. Obviously this will change, enemy to enemy, but I'm not so concerned about that. Hit is two rolls, so...

WTD Berserker: .37 x .37 x 100% = 13.69%

Neutral Hero/Berserker: .22 x .22 x 100% = 4.84%

WTA Hero: .07 x .07 x 100% = <1%

It's literally the same, LOL ROFL.

I find Heros better because Hero Ross is still kicking the shit out of things and I'd rather take a 9% risk on offense rather than a 9% risk on defense, plus Ross is still good even if he doesn't critical. Ultimately, however, it depends on Ross's SPD: all of these assume Ross is DAing. If Ross doesn't DA, then things are still the same but I'd rather have the higher chance of killing in that situation, seeing as otherwise Ross will become an offensive liability when he's not killing. Defensively it's not great and he'll be more prone, but ultimately killing units will save him moar.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Reaver