Who should get ambush?

[Fia]

Two conditions have to be fulfilled:

- Go to B route

- Kill Olwen

I think you meant A here.

[Seph]

I think you meant A here.

Sorry about that. Editing.

[grandjackal]

You type WAY too much.

Yeah I know, bad habit. I try to be brief, but I feel like I gotta go into every detail I can find. It's the fault of being incredibly irrational.

That does nothing to address my fatigue argument.

It was venting, it's infuriating to have a chapter go well then BAM, Felgus gets insta-blicked by a freaking ballistae.

Pffft, I know that. It goes for everyone. What's your point?

Since Olwen is frail, you can't rely on her to take very many hits, so fatigue isn't going to be effecting her that much.

Seems you pointed out my point for me. It affects her greatly. She simply can't do as much as Eyrios can. She can't take many hits, she only has player phase offense due to the risk of taking more than one hit. We can have Eyrios play the same way she does and STILL do more since he can do it longer than she can before needing a break. Not only do his stats allow him to actually be able to survive enemy phase and do pretty good at it, but his fatigue will allow more of it than Olwen ever could..if she could in the first place. Simply put, he can be used in more situations than she can.

You didn't even play the game, I guess?

The most important reason why Olwen > Eyrios:

Eyrios is route dependent. You don't even get him if you don't kill Olwen in the A route and if you go to the B route.

Two conditions have to be fulfilled:

- Go to B route

- Kill Olwen

Pathetic.

Others:

- 4 PC

- Early long range tomes (several Thunderstorms available)

- several chapters of availability VS Eyrios

- DaimThunder and sword

Actually, with a Wind / sword and some help from scrolls (barely a bad thing, a simple trade per level up helps) she can get 3HKOd - 5HKOd, which isn't that bad.

Oh I love this bit, accusing me of not playing the game then coming up with an incredibly dumb reason to prove a point while avoiding several others! Here's my answer..

Why the fuck would we want to go route A!? If B route is Eyrios's route, B route has nice prizes!

In A route we get worse prizes, we have to nab the blaggi scroll off of Amalda, we get losers like Shanam, Miranda and Conmore. Lets see what you conveniently forgot with A route...

-Eyrios

-Sleuf (choir of angels sing)

-2 Warp Staves (choir of angels sing)

-A meteor and another thunderstorm tome

-Magic Ring

-Rescue Staff

-Solar Shot manual (it's Eyrios's, but it's not a point for him but rather the route)

-Amalda (who's ok compared to the fail that is Conmore, or anyone else exclusive to the other route for that matter)

-The chance to nab Sleep Swords

-Misha (probably the only bad thing about this route, yet is STILL better than the garbage the other route gives us)

This is better than the couple extra libro staves and the extra Pugi axe that goes with the garbage in the other route. So I think it's a convincing argument to say we're going Eyrios's route...and since we're gonna be running into him...

Let's see what makes him good when compared to Olwen.

-Versatile

-Decently durable

-Solar Shot and Prayer

-Decent bases

-Comes at a time when thunderbolt is useful rather than unnecessary

-Rather pleasant on the eyes

As for Olwen...

-4 PCR that would be great if she could double anything without innacurate heavy as fuck Dime Thunder or the Wind tome we could give to anyone else while STILL not making her someone who can stay in the front lines.

-Early thunderbolt use which gimps her offense in order to stay FURTHER away from action in order to weaken enemies that are not currently a nuisance which I would think she'd prefer trying to kill them with her heavy-ass innacurate weapon.

-Chapters of sucking/not doing much before Eyrios

-The overrated Dime Thunder and too little too late Holy Sword.

-Looks like someone plopped a dirty mop on her head (yeah, I can be immature at times)

Olwen needs to be babied to the point of hilarity, or she's just not doing much. Now you want me to give her scrolls? Why don't I just get on my knees and eat her out while I'm at it? Besides, at best, all it does is give her more magic over him along with actually beating him out by speed a bit (this is if she basically keeps most scrolls with her at every level up). Then we can give him the scrolls and make him into a god. Olwen has to share mind you, everyone else would love scrolls too ya know...

Edited February 26, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Mekkah]

Then he [Eyrios] grows and becomes pretty decent while Olwen...doesn't really change at all.

Actually, considering her 1-2 range, the ease of trading in this game and her rather slow EXP gain, it is very easy to trade a mass of scrolls on her the moment she's going to level-up. Then consider she actually has some of the best growths in the game...the same as Eyrios' and Xavier's, in fact (look it up...stupid lazy designers).

Also, while Olwen's bases do admittedly suck, there are also ways to make her presence a positive without taking away too much from the team. A simple M Up/Holy Water, for example, makes her rape pretty much everything in sight (the only other units who can pull this are other magicians, and their KO rate usually doesn't change much from it).

[grandjackal]

Actually, considering her 1-2 range, the ease of trading in this game and her rather slow EXP gain, it is very easy to trade a mass of scrolls on her the moment she's going to level-up. Then consider she actually has some of the best growths in the game...the same as Eyrios' and Xavier's, in fact (look it up...stupid lazy designers).

While this is true, not everyone wants to hand her their scrolls just so she can have a good level up to make up for her suck bases. They run the risk of being crit hit that turn (and don't even get me started there today...). I knew Eyrios had the same growths, but he has better bases and by the time he shows up only loses magic by like 2 points on average. Giving her scrolls on her level ups would only really just give her more magic and then actually beat him in speed, but still not by such an amount it cancels out her bad bad durability. Besides, we could then give them to Eyrios to make him continue stomping her, but now by an even huger portion thanks to more scrolls being available.

Also, while Olwen's bases do admittedly suck, there are also ways to make her presence a positive without taking away too much from the team. A simple M Up/Holy Water, for example, makes her rape pretty much everything in sight (the only other units who can pull this are other magicians, and their KO rate usually doesn't change much from it).

Or we could do that to Eyrios to give him great magic for a while too. She beats him in magic by a couple points, not by a huge margin.

[Seph]

Your posts are way too long, I'm not gonna bother replying to all of your points.

Seems you pointed out my point for me. It affects her greatly. She simply can't do as much as Eyrios can. She can't take many hits, she only has player phase offense due to the risk of taking more than one hit. We can have Eyrios play the same way she does and STILL do more since he can do it longer than she can before needing a break. Not only do his stats allow him to actually be able to survive enemy phase and do pretty good at it, but his fatigue will allow more of it than Olwen ever could..if she could in the first place. Simply put, he can be used in more situations than she can.

Eyrios can't do Olwen's job, because his offense fails. Explained this before.

9 magic base, terrible AS.. and even with a low weight scroll, then his might is too low.

In A route we get worse prizes, we have to nab the blaggi scroll off of Amalda, we get losers like Shanam, Miranda and Conmore. Lets see what you conveniently forgot with A route...

That route also has an extra Pugi, gives a way easier time to the player, more time to train your characters like Sara, and you don't have to deal with Misha.

Items aren't everything.

-Versatile

-Decently durable

-Solar Shot and Prayer

-Decent bases

-Comes at a time when thunderbolt is useful rather than unnecessary

-Rather pleasant on the eyes

Eyrios's bases aren't special at all. 9 magic base at level 8?

Thunderbolt is ALWAYS useful.

Also, Eyrios has terrible offense. His might and AS are too low.

-4 PCR that would be great if she could double anything without innacurate heavy as fuck Dime Thunder or the Wind tome we could give to anyone else while STILL not making her someone who can stay in the front lines.

-Early thunderbolt use which gimps her offense in order to stay FURTHER away from action in order to weaken enemies that are not currently a nuisance.

-Chapters of sucking/not doing much before Eyrios

-The overrated Dime Thunder and too little too late Holy Sword.

-Looks like someone plopped a dirty mop on her head (yeah, I can be immature at times)

You can buy a Wind tome no problems. She can also use Thunder.

You're seriously diminishing Thunderstorm's usefulness.. it can finish off enemies which can kill something later on, it can weaken enemies to help with babying, it can weaken bosses, so many uses...

Wind, 4 PC, she can take a few hits, etc.

Then we can give him the scrolls and make him into a god. Olwen has to share mind you, everyone else would love scrolls too ya know...

Olwen comes at level 2, chapter 11x.

Eyrios comes at level 8, chapter 16.

If you're talking about scroll abuse, Olwen does it waaay better.

Actually, considering her 1-2 range, the ease of trading in this game and her rather slow EXP gain, it is very easy to trade a mass of scrolls on her the moment she's going to level-up. Then consider she actually has some of the best growths in the game...the same as Eyrios' and Xavier's, in fact (look it up...stupid lazy designers).

Now that I think of it, needing scrolls is barely a disadvantage at all. It's not even hard at all to trade a scroll and use it.

While not needing scrolls > needing scrolls, I think it's almost ignorable.

[grandjackal]

Your posts are way too long, I'm not gonna bother replying to all of your points.

Fair enough, I apologize for my motr mouth. I swear, it's like OCD.

Eyrios can't do Olwen's job, because his offense fails. Explained this before.

Oh yeah, she's destroying him with her slightly better magic, exact same speed and worse durabilty after 8 levels up being 2 levels above him. That pitiful strength of hers must bring her lots of help to go with alternate forms of offense like when fighting low defense high resistance mages...

9 magic base, terrible AS.. and even with a low weight scroll, then his might is too low.

*Ahem* She has the exact same speed when she shows up if we went ahead and gave her 8 levels.

That route also has an extra Pugi, gives a way easier time to the player, more time to train your characters like Sara, and you don't have to deal with Misha.

Items aren't everything.

I'm sorry, the Pugi axe is suddenly all better than the items I listed? Eyrios's chapter is hardly difficult and the next chapter can be warped around once we get all the important stuff done (and we can take all the time in the world to do anything else before Cyas shows up). Getting through just fine on Eyrios's route.

Eyrios's bases aren't special at all. 9 magic base at level 8?

So we're just gonna forget the fact he has the same speed as Olwen whe she's 2 levels ABOVE him, more durability than she averages out which allows him to do more than kill one person a turn?

Thunderbolt is ALWAYS useful.

More useful when enemies become an actual nuisance.

Also, Eyrios has terrible offense. His might and AS are too low.

*points up* Those say she has better offense on player phase only. Might wanna stop with that AS thing too, he's actually faster.

You can buy a Wind tome no problems. She can also use Thunder.

Eyrios can use holy water/get M Up staff'd.

You're seriously diminishing Thunderstorm's usefulness.. it can finish off enemies which can kill something later on, it can weaken enemies to help with babying, it can weaken bosses, so many uses...

I'd rather blast at the annoying freege knights that make recruiting Xavier a great big pain in the ass or at the other side of that river in the chapter after Eyrios's before Cyas shows up so getting to the castle and making him fuck off is a gentle walk away.

Wind, 4 PC, she can take a few hits, etc.

A few hits? HAHAHAHAHA! Her durability barely climbs (same with Eyrios, but the difference he starts with MUCH better durability, more than she can even dream of actually.), and I'm pretty sure she's taking two shots to die when she shows up, and this will not improve as enemies get stronger (no matter how slowly) and better equipped. Wind doesn't suddenly give her hax defense and HP. 4 PC just means more enemies get the chance to smack her around. Tell me she can dodge, and I'll just tell you Eyrios actually has better dodge thanks to his great starting luck and same speed as Olwen when 2 levels lower than her. Prayer too.

Olwen comes at level 2, chapter 11x.

Eyrios comes at level 8, chapter 16.

Ok...her showing up earlier doesn't stop her from sucking for those chapters. Did I mention he has superior stats even when Olwen is 2 levels ABOVE him? Showing up earlier doesn't make her suddenly better than him. I should mention 8 levels for her in that time with how she's being used is ludicrous.

If you're talking about scroll abuse, Olwen does it waaay better.

Now that I think of it, needing scrolls is barely a disadvantage at all. It's not even hard at all to trade a scroll and use it.

While not needing scrolls > needing scrolls, I think it's almost ignorable.

Gee, so does everyone else who shows up earlier. I'd LOVE to give those scrolls to other people to make them even godlier faster, but apparently we have to spoil princess Olwen just so she doesn't suck. Oh hi Eyrios! What's that? You end up better than her anyways and can use those scrolls without needing to hog so many from other people? What's that? You show up just in time for the Noba scroll to make your strength even better to give you a different form of offense from Olwen's to make you even better while still having access to Heim and the defense scrolls anyways? ... *shoots Olwen in the back of the head*

Edited February 26, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Seph]

Oh yeah, she's destroying him with her slightly better magic, exact same speed and worse durabilty after 8 levels up being 2 levels above him. That pitiful strength of hers must bring her lots of help to go with alternate forms of offense like when fighting low defense high resistance mages...

Slighty better when the lead is massive like 3-4, especially with FE5's 20 caps?

Seriously, stats aren't everything. Olwen has 4 PC, and availability stuff...

*Ahem* She has the exact same speed when she shows up if we went ahead and gave her 8 levels.

Hahahaha, her magic allows her to one round things, though!

I'm sorry, the Pugi axe is suddenly all better than the items I listed? Eyrios's chapter is hardly difficult and the next chapter can be warped around once we get all the important stuff done (and we can take all the time in the world to do anything else before Cyas shows up). Getting through just fine on Eyrios's route.

The extra Pugi is extremely valuable, and saves you 1 Repair Staff use.

If you're going to argue about Warping, then you might as well do that for every single chapter in the game, making your point useless.

So we're just gonna forget the fact he has the same speed as Olwen whe she's 2 levels ABOVE him, more durability than she averages out which allows him to do more than kill one person a turn?

That has nothing to do with what I said. Stats AREN'T EVERYTHING.

More useful when enemies become an actual nuisance.

Chapter 13 and 14.

*points up* Those say she has better offense on player phase only. Might wanna stop with that AS thing too, he's actually faster.

Olwen always has better offense.

The AS thing is true, because he doesn't want to hold tomes with too low might, since he can't touch anything for shit then. He'll have to hold heavier tomes. Unlike Olwen.

Eyrios can use holy water/get M Up staff'd.

Obviously, Holy Water and M Up staff takes away from your team. Also,

Not needing any of that > needing it, when Eyrios comes.

I'd rather blast at the annoying freege knights that make recruiting Xavier a great big pain in the ass or at the other side of that river in the chapter after Eyrios's before Cyas shows up so getting to the castle and making him fuck off is a gentle walk away.

Actually, you can lure the Freege knights to you, since they attack first. They're not really trouble.

Plus, you can always use other units with Meteor and stuff.

A few hits? HAHAHAHAHA! Her durability barely climbs (same with Eyrios, but the difference he starts with MUCH better durability, more than she can even dream of actually.), and I'm pretty sure she's taking two shots to die when she shows up, and this will not improve as enemies get stronger (no matter how slowly) and better equipped. Wind doesn't suddenly give her hax defense and HP. 4 PC just means more enemies get the chance to smack her around. Tell me she can dodge, and I'll just tell you Eyrios actually has better dodge thanks to his great starting luck and same speed as Olwen when 2 levels lower than her. Prayer too.

Chapter 12, brigands only have about 70 hit and 14-19 (mostly 15-16) might - which means 3HKO on Olwen. The enemies, while Olwen is holding a sword, have tiny hit on Olwen (somewhere around 30).

Olwen at chapter 14 (level 4, Wind, no scrolls for generosity): 25 HP, 16 might, 114 hit, 10 AS, 26 avoid, 4 def, 10 res, 19 crit.

Olwen at chapter 14 (level 4, DaimThunder): 25 HP, 25 might, 94 hit, 0 AS, 5 avoid, 4 def, 10 res, 19 crit.

Some random armor knight with Javelin: 25 HP, 15 might, 66 hit, 10 avoid, 3 magic.

Some random armor knight with Battle Axe: 26 HP, 21 might, 76 hit, 16 avoid, 2 magic

Actually, considering her 1-2 range, the ease of trading in this game and her rather slow EXP gain, it is very easy to trade a mass of scrolls on her the moment she's going to level-up. Then consider she actually has some of the best growths in the game...the same as Eyrios' and Xavier's, in fact (look it up...stupid lazy designers).

Ok...her showing up earlier doesn't stop her from sucking for those chapters. Did I mention he has superior stats even when Olwen is 2 levels ABOVE him? Showing up earlier doesn't make her suddenly better than him. I should mention 8 levels for her in that time with how she's being used is ludicrous.

Irrelevant. This has nothing to do with the ability to scroll abuse. You failed to counter it.

You can just trade her a bunch of scrolls right before she levels up, (she has WAY more chances than Eyrios) and she can gain stats comparable to him.

Gee, so does everyone else who shows up earlier. I'd LOVE to give those scrolls to other people to make them even godlier faster, but apparently we have to spoil princess Olwen just so she doesn't suck. Oh hi Eyrios! What's that? You end up better than her anyways and can use those scrolls without needing to hog so many from other people? What's that? You show up just in time for the Noba scroll to make your strength even better to give you a different form of offense from Olwen's to make you even better while still having access to Heim and the defense scrolls anyways? ... *shoots Olwen in the back of the head*

You just trade some fucking scrolls RIGHT before she levels up (she levels up slowly) then give it back immediately. Nothing wrong with that.

[Dat Nick]

The extra Pugi is extremely valuable, and saves you 1 Repair Staff use.

Or you can skip on it altogether since when you factor in that now that Othin actually has hit [and str], he's now 85% less reliant on it and being able to kill with handaxes just got 85% easier than it used to be.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Sweet Tooth

[Seph]

Or you can skip on it altogether since when you factor in that now that Othin actually has hit [and str], he's now 85% less reliant on it and being able to kill with handaxes just got 85% easier than it used to be.

Hand Axes have 6 might, I think you forgot to factor that.

[grandjackal]

Slighty better when the lead is massive like 3-4, especially with FE5's 20 caps?

Seriously, stats aren't everything. Olwen has 4 PC, and availability stuff...

Hahahaha, her magic allows her to one round things, though!

The extra Pugi is extremely valuable, and saves you 1 Repair Staff use.

If you're going to argue about Warping, then you might as well do that for every single chapter in the game, making your point useless.

That has nothing to do with what I said. Stats AREN'T EVERYTHING.

Chapter 13 and 14.

Olwen always has better offense.

The AS thing is true, because he doesn't want to hold tomes with too low might, since he can't touch anything for shit then. He'll have to hold heavier tomes. Unlike Olwen.

Obviously, Holy Water and M Up staff takes away from your team. Also,

Not needing any of that > needing it, when Eyrios comes.

Actually, you can lure the Freege knights to you, since they attack first. They're not really trouble.

Plus, you can always use other units with Meteor and stuff.

Chapter 12, brigands only have about 70 hit and 14-19 (mostly 15-16) might - which means 3HKO on Olwen. The enemies, while Olwen is holding a sword, have tiny hit on Olwen (somewhere around 30).

Olwen at chapter 14 (level 4, Wind, no scrolls for generosity): 25 HP, 16 might, 114 hit, 10 AS, 26 avoid, 4 def, 10 res, 19 crit.

Olwen at chapter 14 (level 4, DaimThunder): 25 HP, 25 might, 94 hit, 0 AS, 5 avoid, 4 def, 10 res, 19 crit.

Some random armor knight with Javelin: 25 HP, 15 might, 66 hit, 10 avoid, 3 magic.

Some random armor knight with Battle Axe: 26 HP, 21 might, 76 hit, 16 avoid, 2 magic

Actually, considering her 1-2 range, the ease of trading in this game and her rather slow EXP gain, it is very easy to trade a mass of scrolls on her the moment she's going to level-up. Then consider she actually has some of the best growths in the game...the same as Eyrios' and Xavier's, in fact (look it up...stupid lazy designers).

Irrelevant. This has nothing to do with the ability to scroll abuse. You failed to counter it.

You can just trade her a bunch of scrolls right before she levels up, (she has WAY more chances than Eyrios) and she can gain stats comparable to him.

You just trade some fucking scrolls RIGHT before she levels up (she levels up slowly) then give it back immediately. Nothing wrong with that.

Ok, that's it. Basically you just threw up all over the page. She has a few more points of magic over him, woop-dee-doo. He's tougher, he can actually stand doing more than being a coward and springing up behind enemy lines to kill just one enemy. Because of this, he can level up faster than she can. Offense involves more than just player phase.

Stats suddenly don't matter? LOL! Go get 'em Marty! Her PCR works against her thanks to her pisspoor durability. What part of sucking for those chapters don't you understand? She's available longer, but it doesn't help she's sucking at those times.

Yeah, the Pugi is so nice to have, especially since Othin doesn't need the damn thing anymore. You can't seriously be trying to tell me one Pugi axe is better than 2 warp staves. If we're doing it once chapter, we're doing it all of them? How does this make my argument useless? There's more use to warp staves than just warp skipping. Where's that video where they berserk Reinhart after making Cyas leave to make Reinhart wipe out his own mage knight army? Pugi axe sure as hell ain't doing that. Helping the kids in Galzus's chapter, recruiting Galzus faster and taking out the enemies in the center room. Pugi axe makes Othin's offense go from insane to...insane...

Chapter 13? The chapter we're rushing through anyways? With a dance, anyone's taking out those ballistaes at the beginning thanks to Laura getting them to reach it (and making them move further ahead to get through this chapter faster). 13 Doesn't get annoying till the reinforcements start flooding in and even then they aren't troublesome enough to warrent thunderbolt use. If the reinforcements are coming in and you're still far enough away to have to use thunderstorm....you have bigger troubles than the reinforcements.

Chapter 14 ...fine, taking out those ballistae would greatly help. After that though, it's best just to play defensively, this is a chapter I will admit she does incredibly well here.

Olwen WOULD have better offense if she could step out from behind the front lines...

Chapter 12 she's having trouble hitting those MANY bandits with anything but a sword and she tickles them with whatever sword she's using, thanks to her pisspoor accuracy. Most of that map is terrain problems. Gaiden chapter there's no reason not to just warp Laura to Pahn then have Pahn talk to Tina. Don't wanna waste those thief staff uses, gets you the free treasure. Trewd will not be missed. Chapter 13 we're rushing through anyways, 14 she does well, 14x has fog of war, and 15 is so easy you shouldn't need thunderbolt. 1 chapter, not killing all ballistae without a crit. Chapter's simple enough if we play defensive anyways.

If we can buy Olwen to make her suck less for the time she exists, we can give cheap and plentiful holy waters to Eyrios for a bit to take him from good to better. Asvel has enough magic to not care (if Olwen can one round...). This doesn't offset the fact he can actually go to the front lines. Salem would like wind tomes too. If all these are buyable...what are we complaining about here? She takes from the team as much as Eyrios does, except he makes better use out of what he takes.

Why go to the trouble of luring the Freege Knights when we can do that AND blast them? Since it's thunderbolt, Eyrios isn't doing any worse than Olwen. We COULD use meteor too with other units, but why can't Eyrios suddenly not help out? It still makes killing the Freege's a whole lot easier.

*claps sarcastically* Congratulations, you compared her to the worst units in chapter 14. Did the knights that assault you at the first point of the chapter suddenly stop existing? If she's sniping the ballistae, she needs to be danced to take them out or she gets hit with a ballistae shot, either way lagging you behind in a chapter we want to rush.

Seems they aren't having a hard time hitting her with dime thunder equipped. They also flood in, so there's plenty of them. You didn't post anything that helped you. She doesn't have perfect accuracy with dime thunder either. I think 2 levels is a bit much for her, 1 seems reasonable. She suddenly isn't killing the Javelin armors with wind. Where the hell are their attack speed? If you left them because they'd actually have the speed to double her with dime thunder, I'll laugh my ass off. "But we could switch her to wind to boost her avoid after she attacks!" Ok, so someone's being pulled away from duty to re-equip her, give her scrolls when she's about to level up and risk getting critical'd on the following turn unless we take ANOTHER person off duty to relocate scrolls, any other way we can pamper Queen Olwen here?

She has to retreat behind your front lines, needs people to pamper her and still performs rather sub-par while Eyrios can at least resemble a good unit.

You can't ignore he still has prayer and solar shot. But another thing came up, that being Weapon Rank! He has an A in swords while Olwen is stuck with a C and crappy strength. Rapier and Kill Swords are light enough for him to use just fine (and has the strength to put them to decent use), Silver Swords are nice too, Armor Slayer, Fire Swords (since he has better magic than most other sword users and still has decent strength so he can put this to pretty nice use), and Sleep Swords. Otherwise, he can use anything she can. Those she can use, he puts to better use, thanks to having durability to speak of. She uses...Wind to better use along with Thunderbolt...

All I heard from your post is she is statistically inferior to him and should be pampered because of it. Not to mention she isn't leveling so much that with scroll abuse she outperforms him by the time he shows up.

[Seph]

Oh my fucking god.. I'm not replying to that. You type too much for your own good. I don't even have to read it. Just one thing:

Ok, that's it. Basically you just threw up all over the page. She has a few more points of magic over him, woop-dee-doo. He's tougher, he can actually stand doing more than being a coward and springing up behind enemy lines to kill just one enemy. Because of this, he can level up faster than she can. Offense involves more than just player phase.

You said "slightly better magic" and I proved it was not. That's all. You're changing the subject.

Also, in a debate, we generally assume that characters are getting the same amount of kills.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Shanan

[grandjackal]

Oh my fucking god.. I'm not replying to that. I don't even have to read it. Just one thing:

You said "slightly better magic" and I proved it was not. That's all. You're changing the subject.

Also, in a debate, we generally assume that characters are getting the same amount of kills.

Assuming is a nice and pleasant word...We're ASSUMING Olwen is getting equal kills, but we damn well know she isn't. All her offense is player phase. She's killing a unit per whole turn at best. Eyrios can weaken units on emey phase, then finish one off and move on.

To compress it, it was basically her not actually being much use between her arrival and Eyrios outside of chapter 14, stats actually mattering after you just seemed to have given up on it, Warp Staves being more useful than a free Pugi Axe, giving Eyrios holy water is no bigger a deal than giving Olwen a wind, you basically spoiling Olwen at every turn, you compared her to enemies individually ignoring that there are large amounts of enemies around, and Eyrios has weapon rank above her with weapons that don't severely debilitate him and help him greatly.

Yeah, that was long winded, but it was because I was trying to make a point outside of "Olwen is great because we have to spoil her to make her good, she's better than Mr. I don't need to be held by the hand to be useful Eyrios."

Equal kills assumes the unit can actually get equal kills in comparison to everyone else.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Grandjackal

[Seph]

Even that post was long.

Assuming is a nice and pleasant word...We're ASSUMING Olwen is getting equal kills, but we damn well know she isn't. All her offense is player phase. She's killing a unit per whole turn at best. Eyrios can weaken units on emey phase, then finish one off and move on.

Weakening on the enemy phase means that he is getting a small amount of kills.

you compared her to enemies individually ignoring that there are large amounts of enemies around, and Eyrios has weapon rank above her with weapons that don't severely debilitate him and help him greatly.

I took the enemies at the south part, and most of them had identical stats (she should be going to the south part, to avoid the ballistae).

[grandjackal]

Even that post was long.

Weakening on the enemy phase means that he is getting a small amount of kills.

I took the enemies at the south part, and most of them had identical stats (she should be going to the south part, to avoid the ballistae).

Dammit I apologize, I have a motor mouth and I apologize. You're starting to just get irritating...Something tells me this won't end well for either of us.

He weakens on enemy phase, kills one on player and your other guys have that much easier a time on the weakened enemies. He's helping the team move faster, Olwen's just...killing one guy. He also has weapons he can use that Olwen can't that DON'T weigh him down to make up for his kinda less magic.

...South part? Ummm...what chapter are you talking about here?

[Don Draper]

Its not a good sign when you attack the length of somebody's posts more then you attack the actual arguements...then ignore 3/4 of the other debater's arguements.

And since Mekkah's here, why don't we ask him? Does Olwen have complete dibs on Ambush, and gets it on every single playthrough?

[Lord Raven]

I'm going to pitch in: some posts are just long and boring to read. Not everyone has the attention span to read it.

Grandjackal, I'll be honest, your posts pretty much are like that like half the time.

[grandjackal]

I'm going to pitch in: some posts are just long and boring to read. Not everyone has the attention span to read it.

Grandjackal, I'll be honest, your posts pretty much are like that like half the time.

Yeah, I know I'm wordy. I can't help it, once I start I can't shut up until I feel every aspect and detail is looked over.

[Don Draper]

I'd also like to point out that Olwen cannot use Thunderstorm until she hits A rank in Thunder. And since she's probably not doubling anything for awhile (5 speed with Thunder tome), she probably won't even get A rank in Thunder by Chapter 16 when Eryios comes (There are 7 chapters before he comes, and with fatigue and lol 24 base HP, she'll probably only be in 3-4).

[grandjackal]

I'd also like to point out that Olwen cannot use Thunderstorm until she hits A rank in Thunder. And since she's probably not doubling anything for awhile (5 speed with Thunder tome), she probably won't even get A rank in Thunder by Chapter 16 when Eryios comes (There are 7 chapters before he comes, and with fatigue and lol 24 base HP, she'll probably only be in 3-4).

Whoa whoa whoa, really? *checks her weapon rank and thunderstorm rank* ...

...

HAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!! I didn't even notice that!

Also didn't notice Xavier had the same growths as Olwen and Eyrios until it was mentioned earlier

[Don Draper]

And as to Othin needing Pugi? Um...lol?

I'll use Chapter 19 enemy samples because I only have save files from that, the final chapter, and Chapter 12

20/5 Olthin: 21 Atk w/Hand Axe

Cavaliers: 38 HP/9 Def

Bow Knights: 44 HP/9 Def

Arch Knights: 36 HP/8 Def

Mage Knights: 25 HP/11 Def (some have 6 Def)

Generals: 34 HP/14 Def (Some have 15)

Troubadeurs: 36 HP/7 Def

ORKO's absolutely everything with a Hand Axe wrath kill. Except for the boss, but he can switch to a Silver for that if he needs to.

Edited February 26, 2009 by IOS

[grandjackal]

Funny how this all started with who should get Ambush.

Well...does this prove Eyrios would put it to better use at all? XD

[Seph]

I'm going to pitch in: some posts are just long and boring to read. Not everyone has the attention span to read it.

Grandjackal, I'll be honest, your posts pretty much are like that like half the time.

This, really.

Whoa whoa whoa, really? *checks her weapon rank and thunderstorm rank* ...

...

HAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!! I didn't even notice that!

Also didn't notice Xavier had the same growths as Olwen and Eyrios until it was mentioned earlier

She already has B rank and 30 wexp, so she'll need only 20? hits to get to A. She can do it in a short time. It's seriously no problem at all. She can probably get it in chapter 12, where Thunderstorm would be useless anyway. It's not even one entire Thunder.

FE5 maps are large and filled with enemies. Chapter 12 is no exception.

And as to Othin needing Pugi? Um...lol?

I'll use Chapter 19 enemy samples because I only have save files from that, the final chapter, and Chapter 12

20/5 Olthin: 21 Atk w/Hand Axe

Cavaliers: 38 HP/9 Def

Bow Knights: 44 HP/9 Def

Arch Knights: 36 HP/8 Def

Mage Knights: 25 HP/11 Def (some have 6 Def)

Generals: 34 HP/14 Def (Some have 15)

Troubadeurs: 36 HP/7 Def

ORKO's absolutely everything with a Hand Axe wrath kill. Except for the boss, but he can switch to a Silver for that if he needs to.

By the way, you ignored my previous post.

Secondly, Othin only has ...90 hit, together with the 1 RN system and FE5's unique raped RNG. Seriously, seriously lame. And Hand Axes only have 20 uses, and they fail in the player phase, which means it prevents you from getting a crucial kill.

Othin was also a great boss slayer with Pugi.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Shanan

[Lord Raven]

90 hit is still a lot regardless of "raped RN system." Going by what you said, everyone has a shitty hit and evade rate because they cap out at 99%/1% and not 100%.

That sounds ridiculously desperate for arguments against Hand Axe. Regardless, I'd rather use a Hand Axe than repair a broken Pugi later on.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[Dat Nick]

Also forgot to factor in leadership.

Lessee, that's 2 stars from Leaf, 1 star from Fin....we're up to 99 hit already. If he's in range of charisma or his supports or Leaf, that's even better.