TLSothe Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I know a lot of people who say men are superior to women, physically. In my experience, that's partially correct. But it's obviously not completely. A woman can easily become stronger than men, and vice versa. Most women don't bother to get very muscular, because not all men find it attractive. So even saying men are more physically tough than girls doesn't work. Honestly, sexism should be dead by now. People like Destiny Hero just need to shut up and let us move on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltoshen Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) I'm a pervert, so apparently women > men I can say that I don't know enough about this topic to actually challenge any ideas posted here, so I'll just state how I treat this subject: It all depends on what type of activity you're talking about, and most of the time, gender won't matter. I know girls with more testosterone than men and visa verse. If it comes to producing children, women > men...unless you can somehow argue that ejaculating took more effort than pushing out a baby. Edited March 6, 2009 by Eltoshen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knife Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Wait, I'm confused. Is the general consensus here that men and women are completely equal or men and women have slight differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltoshen Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Wait, I'm confused. Is the general consensus here that men and women are completely equal or men and women have slight differences? Everybody seems to be all over the place, though I think it'd be pretty obvious to say that men and women have slight differences, otherwise we wouldn't be classified into genders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 A woman can easily become stronger than men, and vice versa. Most women don't bother to get very muscular, because not all men find it attractive. So even saying men are more physically tough than girls doesn't work. No. Let me explain. For a while I've known chicks who where very good at sports. Several play at a very high level. I on the other hand am I guy who doesn't do too much physical activity. I could beat them up. I am stronger than them. It's just the way things are. Again, that's why men and women are separated in sports. If they weren't, it would be a slaughter. I'm not saying women are worse, I'm saying there IS a difference, no matter how much people want to deny it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YokaiKnight Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I could beat them up. I am stronger than them. It's just the way things are. Again, that's why men and women are separated in sports. If they weren't, it would be a slaughter. I'm not saying women are worse, I'm saying there IS a difference, no matter how much people want to deny it. Er, if you are saying that men tend to outperform women at sports, you are saying women are worse (at sports). Otherwise, you're just being dishonest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Er, if you are saying that men tend to outperform women at sports, you are saying women are worse (at sports). Otherwise, you're just being dishonest. Err, sorry, I said that wrong. Yes, women are worse at most sports. I meant like, that doesn't mean Women are inferior to men. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Wow, your comment was quite...dumb "I could beat them up" Oh come on, that's quite stupid, sorry, that was just my...opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive Account Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I could beat them up. I am stronger than them. It's just the way things are. Again, that's why men and women are separated in sports. If they weren't, it would be a slaughter. I'm not saying women are worse, I'm saying there IS a difference, no matter how much people want to deny it. Overall, women may be statistically weaker than men. But you can't deny there are women that are stronger than most me. And as for the "beating up"... Not only was that a stupid remark, but you do realize that there are other ways to win then brute strength, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Rabbit Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Yes, especially if you're a girl. ;_; sorry for the bad joke. Men are concerned with strength, so of course we would outmatch women in that area. But it's not fair to compare when it's like we're in two different dimensions to begin with. Saying dudes are stronger and are better is like saying girls are wiser and therefore are better. With as many differences as there are... I'm suprised we're supposed to procreate. :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manna Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Very interesting discussion you guys have got going here. Today at work, my 40-something-year-old coworker tells us that her boyfriend, a couple years older than her, said, and I quote, "Women have no place at Honda." First of all, that was uncalled for, but I've gotten that comment before, myself, from other men. Let me tell you guys something about where I work. It's a factory. It's mostly made up of men. But let me tell you something else. I'm short, I weigh just about nothing, and I can still do every job assigned to me just as well if not better than any of the men who also do said jobs. Men and women are different. You cannot pit the average man against an average woman and determine who is superior/inferior, because those terms mean absolutely nothing when they stand alone. Superior in what way? Inferior in what way? Overall? Because that is impossible to calculate, even if there was a way to find out. It's like asking someone what is superior-- a cat or a dog. You cannot answer that question. Which animal is smarter? Well, it depends on the individual animal. Which animal is more cunning? Can run faster? Can jump higher? There will always be factors that change the outcome/answer to that question. And does it really matter? I care about individuals. If I don't like you, or I think you're an idiot or a jackass, or even if I hate you, you'd better believe it's not because I think men < women or the other way around. No, I'll think you're an idiot because you are one, and I'll think you suck at your job because you do. Being a man or a woman has nothing to do with it. But in all honesty, there are some jobs where I work that they don't let women do. Why? Because it requires heavy lifting or something that could easily injure a woman. They don't let small men do those jobs, either, though. So it evens out. Tall people (man or woman) get to do certain jobs. Women can put tires on, and so can men. Women can shoot seatbelt bolts and seats into the car. So can men! I just like telling everyone I'm a bigger man than they are. In all seriousness, though, I am for the equal opportunities of men and women. If women want to join the army, they can. That's great! For them. Do I want to? I'd rather not, even though I'd probably be great. And I sure as heck don't want to be drafted. But the worst problem that came along with women's rights is, and I know this sounds sexist, but I swear I'm not, that women and men started working. That left half as many jobs, but a heckuva lot of people. Now we have higher-income families (which is great!) and we're used to having two nice cars in the driveway and flat-screen TVs and all that other fun stuff. But that also means that most women and men have no choice but to work. So women's rights? Yeah, what about my rights to choose to be a housewife/stay-at-home-mother. Yeah, that's my dream job. But it's becoming increasingly rare to find men who agree with that idea (or aren't opposed to it, at any rate), and it's even more rare when the man makes enough money to let his wife stay at home. (Of course, if you have three kids, it'd be cheaper for the wife to stay at home unless she makes over $15/hour, because paying a babysitter is really expensive nowadays!) In short: men and women are equal. Men and women should have the right to choose a career, to stay at home with the kids/be barefoot and pregnant (haha!)/what have you. Both sexes should have the choice to decide if they want an education or if they'd rather not do that. So really, when you hear someone say men are superior to women? Or vice-versa? Just ignore them. They're not worth your time. Or come back with a really witty response that'll throw them for a loop. (That's always fun.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive Account Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 So really, when you hear someone say men are superior to women? Or vice-versa? Just ignore them. They're not worth your time. Or come back with a really witty response that'll throw them for a loop. (That's always fun.) I think that's a good finisher for this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masu Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 So really, when you hear someone say men are superior to women? Or vice-versa? Just ignore them. They're not worth your time. Or come back with a really witty response that'll throw them for a loop. (That's always fun.) I think that's a good finisher for this topic. :/ sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manna Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 :/ sorry. Oh! I wasn't aiming anything at anyone in particular. Just letting everyone know that idiots are everywhere and even though you think everyone grows up after Kindergarten/High School, they don't. Some people stay like that forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masu Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Oh! I wasn't aiming anything at anyone in particular. Just letting everyone know that idiots are everywhere and even though you think everyone grows up after Kindergarten/High School, they don't. Some people stay like that forever. it kinda sucks that they dont grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Wow, your comment was quite...dumb"I could beat them up" Oh come on, that's quite stupid, sorry, that was just my...opinion. Lawl Overall, women may be statistically weaker than men. But you can't deny there are women that are stronger than most me.And as for the "beating up"... Not only was that a stupid remark, but you do realize that there are other ways to win then brute strength, right? The "beating up" part was in response to somebodies post about how they knew women who could "beat up" many men. I simply maintained what they where saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Overall, women may be statistically weaker than men. But you can't deny there are women that are stronger than most me. Comparing an above-average woman to an average man and then drawing a conclusion is completely biased. It's like asking someone what is superior-- a cat or a dog. You cannot answer that question. Which animal is smarter? Well, it depends on the individual animal. Which animal is more cunning? Can run faster? Can jump higher? There will always be factors that change the outcome/answer to that question. Let's compare a flatworm and a field mouse. Which one is smarter? Which one can run faster? Which one can jump higher? Evidently each is better suited to its natural habitat and thus has complete superiority on that level of comparison. Such are facts. In all seriousness, though, I am for the equal opportunities of men and women. Equal opportunity is great, but that doesn't change the fact that males are evolutionarily superior to women in certain ways and vice versa. As long as inherent differences exist, true equality is impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
California Mountain Snake Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 As long as inherent differences exist, true equality is impossible. being equal=/=being identical (mathematicians will disagree) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Explain yourself, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddo Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I think I'll just go with Manna's word on this thread, especially since I myself am the kind that hasn't grown up yet. (Not that I ever had a man vs. woman-oriented discussion anyway...) But as for the issue of equality, I think the point Black Knight makes (Or at least I'm assuming) is that men and women don't need to be exactly the same in order to have "fair treatment" in a society. Of course, sometimes the definition of "fair treatment" varies from person to person - some would say it's that everyone gets the same treatment, while others would say the treatment should be proportional to a person's effort, a person's ability, or a person's unique circumstances of which he/she couldn't control. But basically what I think he means is that women don't have to be instantly hired into jobs they may or may not be qualified for in order to be "equal"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 But as for the issue of equality, I think the point Black Knight makes (Or at least I'm assuming) is that men and women don't need to be exactly the same in order to have "fair treatment" in a society. Of course. But people being treated fairly doesn't necessarily mean that they're equal. Of course, sometimes the definition of "fair treatment" varies from person to person - some would say it's that everyone gets the same treatment, while others would say the treatment should be proportional to a person's effort, a person's ability, or a person's unique circumstances of which he/she couldn't control. Then this "fair treatment" would be acknowledging inequality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddo Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Of course. But people being treated fairly doesn't necessarily mean that they're equal. I think the confusion comes from what people think of when they hear "equal" in these kind of debates. It's part of why Black Knight's saying was difficult to interpret. To some "equal" -is- the literal math definition, where something has to be exactly identical. However, some people view "equality" not as that literal term but in the terms of their rights in society, hence where any debate of "fair treatment" comes from. For example, when the US Declaration of Independence claimed "All men are created equal", they were not saying that all men are literally the same, but rather that the USA did not believe in England's old system of birthrights marking your starting place in society - that instead, a "man" (At the time referring to white, male US Citizens - obviously this meaning has changed over the times) always started from the bottom to work his way up in society, and should be judged in the same manner you'd judge any other "man", no special favors or unusual cruelty. Then this "fair treatment" would be acknowledging inequality. I don't think anyone's saying inequality doesn't exist - either in the literal term or in the term as it applies to a society. Otherwise we wouldn't have Women's Rights and Minority Rights, would we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 being equal=/=being identical (mathematicians will disagree) I don't think that human equality should really be compared to anything within the realm of the absolute. Gender and race are just slight differences, the only real problems are regional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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