Ϲharlie Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 ... I honestly don't see how that qualifies as a relationship. =\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 FE9 deconstructed many archetypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 FE9 deconstructed many archetypes. How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I believe in FE archetypes, the most common is the Jeigans. There are others like, early mage/thief, the green and red cavalier duo, the strong unit who comes in late, the way underleveled unit that comes late who becomes amazing, and the list goes on. But yeah, they're pretty useless and just used to try to predict new characters I will just list a few for each one. FE6: Early thief/mage: Chad and Lugh, Cavalier duo: Lance and Allen, Strong unit that comes late: Karel, The unit who is underleveled but good who comes late: Zeiss (THOUGH HE IS AWESOME!!!) FE7: Early thief/mage: Matthew (I guess) and Erk, Cavalier duo: Sain and Kent, Strong unit that comes late: Athos, The unit who is underleveled but good who comes late: Nino FE8: Early thief/mage: Colm and Lute, Cavalier duo: Kyle and Forde, Strong unit that comes late: ...no idea unless you count Myrrh or Syrene..., The unit that is underleveled but good who comes late: Knoll? Well you get the point right? XD (too lazy to finish) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Just wondering, is there a such thing as a Caeda archtype? (Which I would consider a storyline archtype in some aspects. I think it can also be an archtype decided by gameplay, but I can't be too sure.) If so I might have a few good ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Just wondering, is there a such thing as a Caeda archtype? (Which I would consider a storyline archtype in some aspects. I think it can also be an archtype decided by gameplay, but I can't be too sure.) If so I might have a few good ideas. You mean a female lead? Yeah, there are a few of those, though I wouldn't call it an archtype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 How so? I think the past couple of posts trying to figure out who the heck the Navarre archetype is explains it nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I think the past couple of posts trying to figure out who the heck the Navarre archetype is explains it nicely. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 If Joshua and Zihark are the sort that get recruited from the enemies early, then who is it in FE10? Aran or Fiona? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 If Joshua and Zihark are the sort that get recruited from the enemies early, then who is it in FE10? Aran or Fiona? Neither of them are Myrms/SMs/TBs. So I would say Zihark still qualifies as the Navarre of FE10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether7 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 The Navarre archetype in my eyes is simply a swordmaster class character that starts out as an enemy and can be recruited to your side, generally early in the game then later. So for Path of Radiance I would say Zihark fills this role out to the tee... also these arche types have to evolve over time a little bit if it was too specific it would become stale... I think there is a little more to it than just an enemy swordmaster that is recruited early, it usually involves two weaker units (typically a priest and thief) making an escape to join up with your side. Maybe we should be more specific in calling it the Navarre/Julian/Lena archetype. You could make any number of archetypes for an enemy (insert class) that can be recruited to your side, but that is too generic to call it such. Zihark is not involved with any other characters on your side in Path of Radiance. That said, I do agree with the later posts about this being deconstructed a bit. One of the three might be missing, or maybe another weak class such as a mage or archer is substituted. Another possibility in PoR that I've considered is Mist and Rolf being kidnapped by bandits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) FE8: Early thief/mage-Colm & Artur. Cavaliers - Kyle and Forde. Strong unit that comes late: Duessel. Good unit with low level but ends up awesome- Myrrh. Early archer: Neimi. Jeigan: Seth starts the high level thing, but for the "suck at the end part" , it probably goes to Duessel. FE10: Early thief/mage - Sothe and Micaiah. Cavaliers - Oscar and Kieran. Strong unit that comes late: Laguz royals except Nailah, who is Eyvel but comes awesome even lategame. Weak unit that ends up good: Pelleas. Early archer: Leonardo Jeigan: Sothe. I love how FE8, 9 and 10 gave us suck archers at the beginning of the game. Edited June 24, 2009 by Joshybear25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 FE9 deconstructed many archetypes. How so? I'm not sure if Titania is a "deconstruction" of the Jeigan archetype, unless it's by virtue of the fact that she's actually a fairly decent paladin at higher levels, or the fact that she's a woman. (Come to think of it, there aren't any other female Jeigans, are there?) The Red and Green Cavaliers are usually both available from early on, but while Oscar is, Kieran isn't. They also use different weapons, and their separation is even more pronounced in Radiant Dawn. I'd say that they do deconstruct the Red and Green archetype. You could even say that there is a Lord archetype (or a "Marth" archetype, if you will), and if so, Ike manages to be a deconstruction of THAT archetype as well, since he isn't of noble birth, unlike the "Lords" of every other Fire Emblem game except Radiant Dawn. (And noble-born Lords still outnumber Ike in Radiant Dawn.) If the Navarre archetype is defined by an enemy myrmidon whom you recruit with a female character, Zihark might also be a deconstruction, since Mordecai can recruit him as well as Lethe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Titania's deconstruction is that not only is she a woman, but A female Paladin that isn't subpar, compare to Midia or Isadora, and also isn't an old geezer like Jeigan or Marcus. Despite that, she's one of the closer to her archetypes. Character wise, Ike is obviously a deconstruction, but stat wise he's basically Marth with 40% Def growth and a promotion and a broken weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeshroom Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Axe wielding first boss lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Neither of them are Myrms/SMs/TBs. So I would say Zihark still qualifies as the Navarre of FE10. It's Stefan, who's usually recruited by Micaiah if you haven't transferred data. But this shows why this archtype doesn't exist in RD/PoR perfectly: If the Navarre archetype is defined by an enemy myrmidon whom you recruit with a female character, Zihark might also be a deconstruction, since Mordecai can recruit him as well as Lethe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Doesn't Seth (who's actually good in FE8) and FE9 Titania qualify more like an Oifaye than Jeigan? I'm not... sure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 The lot of you are proving my point in the OP. There is no "Oifaye" archetype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 The lot of you are proving my point in the OP. There is no "Oifaye" archetype. Archetypes aren't really an objective construct, so there is an "Oifaye" archetype if people collectively determine there is. That said, I actually agree with you, there is no "Oifaye" archetype. Though I think it's simply because there is no strong consensus toward that end. But I won't deny the existence of the Jeigan because it's pretty firmly entrenched whether I would like to acknowledge it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Oifaye is useful for what? One chapter, two tops before his durability begins to show? Sounds like a Jeigan to me. He's just not terribad like FE1/3 Jeigan and FE3 Book 2 Alan, though Alan actually has a use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Oifaye is useful for what? One chapter, two tops before his durability begins to show? Sounds like a Jeigan to me. He's just not terribad like FE1/3 Jeigan and FE3 Book 2 Alan, though Alan actually has a use. Jeigan didn't have growths (lol 0-10%), to the point that leveling him is... Oifaye, however, had growths only slightly lower than Sigurd. So, he actually improves as he gains levels. I don't think it's so much of a change of archetype, but, rather, a change in the way the games are designed - so that a player that raises the "wrong" characters isn't punished too harshly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I've only played FE3 B2 for a short time, and Alan isn't terrible, but then again everyone around him that's of use is pretty good already (Katua in C2 and Paola in C3? Oh my...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Jeigan didn't have growths (lol 0-10%), to the point that leveling him is... Oifaye, however, had growths only slightly lower than Sigurd. So, he actually improves as he gains levels. Except Sigurd has 10 more levels to grow than Oifaye does. Admittedly, Oifaye's bases are drastically better (like 8 more DEF and shit). Oifaye's problems were always just getting overshadowed by characters with better growths, which makes Seth all the more impressive in 8 because he doesn't get overshadowed. Or just shows how busted-ass FE4's children were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 The problem with Oifaye being worse than everyone despite still being decent is that means that he's going to get target fired by pretty much everything, and that means long range stuff because his durability isn't as good. Even still, I disagree with an Oifaye archetype on the grounds that "OMG HE'S ACTUALLY NOT SUCK", because Oifaye and most Jeigans serve the exact same role of being early game support units that are already promoted. I've only played FE3 B2 for a short time, and Alan isn't terrible, but then again everyone around him that's of use is pretty good already (Katua in C2 and Paola in C3? Oh my...).Alan has garbage growths in Book 2 due to an illness he has, but he's actually useful in Chapter 2 due to his high movement and Silver Lance use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) Alan has garbage growths in Book 2 due to an illness he has, but he's actually useful in Chapter 2 due to his high movement and Silver Lance use. The game only told me over 9000 times :P Yeah he was needed in C2 though. DracoKnights caught me off-guard. Yeah, for a Jeigan he's an improvement over the other Jeigan, but sucks that the illness screwed him over. What's up with FE3 and illnesses anyway, plague much? Edited June 27, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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