About Fire Emblem archetypes

[Mekkah]

I personally think archetypes are pretty useless. They are no more than traditions upheld in some games, not so in another. Trying very hard to fit a certain character in an archetype that might not even be in the game is misleading. Rather than accepting there's simply no character of a certain archetype, people bend the definitions of the archetypes. You have to keep in mind that archetypes are fan-assigned, not intended as such by the game designers. Some are dead give aways, others simply come down to similarities.

The most commonly misplaced archetype is probably Jeigan. The only characters that truly fit in from the games I've played are:

FE1/FE3: Jeigan

FE4 2nd generation: Oifaye

FE6: Marcus

FE7: Marcus

FE8: Seth

FE9: Titania

That would be Jeigan in the definition of "a Paladin that joins early". For all I care, whether they end up "good" or not is irrelevant. If you want, you can expand it to "prepromote that joins early", in which case you can write down FE10 Sothe, Dagda and Eyvel if you want. Maybe Shinon.

FE games often have similarities between them that you could call an archetype, but there's no reason to try and find one for every game when there really isn't one.

How many games can you count where there's a Mage that joins early? A thief? An Armor Knight?

Or games where there's a character that joins late and is good off the bat?

Or maybe games where there's a character that joins late and requires a lot of EXP to become good?

Looking at it this way, it is pretty much pointless to discuss whether "Titania is an Oifaye or a Jeigan" or whether "Zeis and Nino are an Est". They have things in common with characters from previous FE games, but what they are? Well, their name tag says that they are, and anything else you want to know them can be found on Serenes Forest.

[Caradryan]

I agree. There are certain character archetypes that are common enough. For example, an uberly badass unit that joins you for the last chapters of the game. Yet the character archetypes often influence the judgmental nature of fans and causes un-needed tension.

I like a lot of the Jeigans as characters - Seth, TauroBlock, Titania, Marcus, etc. For example. Look at Marcus. He's served Eliwood and then his son rather faithfully - you can't really find someone more loyal than that (The guy's HOW OLD in FE6?).

Sure, game-wise he may be useless, but no one's forcing you to use him, so it's your own fault if you couldn't really raise a team well-enough to play the game. Point being, if the character is written well, interesting, or otherwise appeals to you, then why bother assigning them titles?

[Ike-Mike]

You have to keep in mind that archetypes are fan-assigned, not intended as such by the game designers.

Someone in a now-deleted interview for Path of Radiance actually stated the Jeigan archetype, so this one is official.

[Rakath]

You started a discussion on a topic you say needs no discussion?

The archtypes (depending on how forced they are) are mostly a simplicity thing. In a game series with 50+ characters a game, you have to reuse and repeat or you will run out of things to do.

So you get a Pre-promoted unit early game each game, to keep you from dying. (Jeigan)

You get a late game unit with low stats and amazing growths. (Est)

You get a pair of Cavaliers in red and green. (Cain and Abel)

You get a set of 3 siblings (Palla, Catria, Est)

They are in there, the names might be fan chosen but they follow this set-up in a lot of ways for gameplay.

Jeigans are there to make sure the new player doesn't get TOTALLY WASTED by the opponents. Now granted some of them are... only so helpful. The Late game Growth master is there so people who can calculate and use them can take advantage. Not everyone can properly throw an Est into combat without them dying. The Red and Green riders are there to make for some dialog, and flesh out your starting party (mostly... they played with it a bit with FE8, 9, and 10 with the different deployment of this one). The siblings are so you get a good reason for a Triangle Attack. While not useful it is fun to play with.

Complaining about the reused elements is like whining about moogles and airships in Final Fantasy...

Also, you forgot Arran (FE3 Book 2) on your list, by the way.

[VincentASM]

Someone in a now-deleted interview for Path of Radiance actually stated the Jeigan archetype, so this one is official.

What interview was that (as in by who and where)?

Edited March 16, 2009 by VincentASM

[TheEnd]

You have to keep in mind that archetypes are fan-assigned, not intended as such by the game designers.

That would mean the similarites between characters like Navarre, Rutger and Ayra/Jamka are pure coincidence.

And they obviously aren't.

Navarre? A recruitable speedy sword user, with rather fragile defenses, dressed in swordmaster garb (or rather, one could say that swordmasters are dressed in Navarre garb). He first appears in an early chapter (3) and lets Lena (a priest) go with Julian (a thief). His equipment is a Killer Sword.

Rutger? A recruitable speedy sword user, with rather fragile defenses, who promotes to swordmaster. He first appears in an early chapter (4) and lets Clarine (a priest on a horse) go. He wields a Killer Sword.

Jamka? A recruitable speedy bow user, with rather fragile defenses. He first appears in an early chapter (1) and lets Adean (a priest) go with Dew (a thief). His equipment is a Killer Bow.

Ayra? A recruitable speedy sword user, with rather fragile defenses, who promotes to swordmaster. She first appears in an early chapter (1). She has Astra, which would be deadlier than a killer sword.

I think it's unwise to say that those similarities aren't deliberate. Same for the green/red cavaliers, etc.

However, I do agree that this archetype talk has been taken too far by the fandom.

[Ike-Mike]

What interview was that (as in by who and where)?

It's an interview done by Nintendo.

Also I just found out that the interview is actually there, the site I got the link from only had a punctuation mark next to the link:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/nom/0505/1_3/index.html

Horikawa:喋RANAI or not, I feel wild, and rhetoric, "I" from "me" to go. より男らしくということで傭兵になりました。 Now that mercenaries from the man. が、今回のジェイガンは男性スタッフの強い要望でキレイなお姉さんになりました(笑)。 , JEIGAN this beautiful sister was in strong demand from staff men (laughs).

（編注：シリーズを通して、序盤の主人公を導いてくれる強いキャラクターがいる。初代作品ではジェイガンというおじいさんキャラだったので、以降この役割を持つキャラは名前に関わらず通称ジェイガンと呼ばれている） (Chapter: Throughout the series, the characters are like a strong early lead me. In original works of his grandfather was so JEIGAN character, since the characters in this role is called regardless of the name and known as JEIGAN)

That's the part I was referring to. Edited March 16, 2009 by Ike-Mike

[Rakath]

TheEnd, you forgot Joshua, a deadly Swift Sword user with Fragile defense who is swayed to your side by Natasha (a what, a Cleric, naw, never happened before).

Mia, a speedy sword weilder with fragile defense has her primary support with Rhys (a Priest).

On the other side of the Rena and Julian thing, you get Guy, who is a swift sword user with long hair and Navarre-similar garb, who is recruited by speaking with a Thief (Matthew).

It wouldn't be a series if every game was totally disconnected from one another, there have to be a few combining elements. *coughTHEFIREEMBLEMcough*

[Rodykitty]

*coughTHEFIREEMBLEMcough*

The Fire Emblem isn't even important in about a third of the games.

[Rei Rei]

Also the Oguma archetype, albeit not as present as the Jeigan or the Abel/Cain archetypes.

[Lord Raven]

On the other side of the Rena and Julian thing, you get Guy, who is a swift sword user with long hair and Navarre-similar garb, who is recruited by speaking with a Thief (Matthew).

Matthew and Serra know each other pretty well, too.

[TheEnd]

TheEnd, you forgot Joshua, a deadly Swift Sword user with Fragile defense who is swayed to your side by Natasha (a what, a Cleric, naw, never happened before).

Mia, a speedy sword weilder with fragile defense has her primary support with Rhys (a Priest).

On the other side of the Rena and Julian thing, you get Guy, who is a swift sword user with long hair and Navarre-similar garb, who is recruited by speaking with a Thief (Matthew).

It wouldn't be a series if every game was totally disconnected from one another, there have to be a few combining elements. *coughTHEFIREEMBLEMcough*

I didn't "forget" them, since I only listed examples. :>

The Fire Emblem isn't even important in about a third of the games.

So true. Lol Jugdral.

[Rakath]

The Fire Emblem isn't even important in about a third of the games.

Most of the characters we're listing in these archtypes aren't very plot important either, nor the characters that appear over multiple games (Anna).

But they are the very loose string that tie the series together.

[Ϲharlie]

Also the Oguma archetype, albeit not as present as the Jeigan or the Abel/Cain archetypes.

I'm not so sure Oguma is an archetytpe. Just how many characters were actually based off him? There's Dieck and... that's about it.

[Fia]

I'm not so sure Oguma is an archetytpe. Just how many characters were actually based off him? There's Dieck and... that's about it.

Holyn? Though he has no Axe Fighters to accompany him. : <

[Rei Rei]

I'm not so sure Oguma is an archetytpe. Just how many characters were actually based off him? There's Dieck and... that's about it.

Dieck, Gerik, some say that Fergus' growths were based on his...

[Icon of Sin]

I'm not so sure Oguma is an archetytpe. Just how many characters were actually based off him? There's Dieck and... that's about it.

Arguably Gerik since he has similar stats and a similar backstory of sorts, except instead of being a gladiator he's just a mercenary leader. The problem with him is that he joins moderately late unlike Oguma and Dieck.

[Just call me AL]

Arguably Gerik since he has similar stats and a similar backstory of sorts, except instead of being a gladiator he's just a mercenary leader. The problem with him is that he joins moderately late unlike Oguma and Dieck.

Raven's considered part of the Ogma archtype too, although he is more like Caesar in terms of join time.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Dudes. You guys are proving Mekkah's point here. :P He basically said that you can "make up" an archtype for pretty much ANY characters in the game, but they really say very little. As he said, they're fairly useless.

[Florete]

The only archetypes I recognize are Jeigan and red/green cavaliers. Jeigan being any promoted unit that shows up early, including the actually good ones, and red/green cavaliers being the cavaliers that come early and usually are associated with those colors.

Creating separate archetypes for everything I feel is pointless. Like separating the Jeigan archetype into "Oifaye" and "Cuan" because some of them turn out differently. You might as well say Sain isn't the green cavalier because his hair isn't green.

Any other archetype doesn't seem prevalent enough to worry about, except maybe the Est archetype. Maybe.

[Rakath]

The most obvious are also the most logical (from a 'make sure your player doesn't die' standpoint):

Jeigan (your big powerhouse... sorta), Red/Green (extra forces), Est (possible powerhouse), Gatoh (definite powerhouse).

Navarre I count, there's an easy path from A to Z here, and an example in every world.

The others seem to be like a conspiracy theory... until you can find enough examples of it...

[Aether7]

Navarre I count, there's an easy path from A to Z here, and an example in every world.

You might say this archetype is missing from Path of Radiance. I don't believe Mia and Rhys are part of it. They may be of the correct class, and can support each other but the story element is missing... It is missing, but not forgotten. I believe Sothe and Micaiah are this archetype. The thief is there and he is looking for his priest (without staffs).

Radiant Dawn rolls around and if anyone was disappointed that this archetype was missing before, well this game now starts with a movie of it! Navarre and Jeigan archetypes are now merged into Sothe. Sothe wields a killer weapon, the kard and he is also a prepromote. Micaiah and Sothe are making there escape from the Begnion soldiers. While you don't play through it this time, it is there in story form. Definitely not a coincidence.

Micaiah and Sothe just made this archetype a more defining element of the game. You may think archetypes are useless, but I think IS did a good job of mixing this one up and yet it is still recognizable. They also split up the red/green cavaliers.

[Saaji]

You might say this archetype is missing from Path of Radiance. I don't believe Mia and Rhys are part of it. They may be of the correct class, and can support each other but the story element is missing... It is missing, but not forgotten. I believe Sothe and Micaiah are this archetype. The thief is there and he is looking for his priest (without staffs).

Radiant Dawn rolls around and if anyone was disappointed that this archetype was missing before, well this game now starts with a movie of it! Navarre and Jeigan archetypes are now merged into Sothe. Sothe wields a killer weapon, the kard and he is also a prepromote. Micaiah and Sothe are making there escape from the Begnion soldiers. While you don't play through it this time, it is there in story form. Definitely not a coincidence.

Micaiah and Sothe just made this archetype a more defining element of the game. You may think archetypes are useless, but I think IS did a good job of mixing this one up and yet it is still recognizable. They also split up the red/green cavaliers.

The Navarre archetype in my eyes is simply a swordmaster class character that starts out as an enemy and can be recruited to your side, generally early in the game then later. So for Path of Radiance I would say Zihark fills this role out to the tee... also these arche types have to evolve over time a little bit if it was too specific it would become stale...

[Ϲharlie]

You might say this archetype is missing from Path of Radiance. I don't believe Mia and Rhys are part of it. They may be of the correct class, and can support each other but the story element is missing... It is missing, but not forgotten. I believe Sothe and Micaiah are this archetype. The thief is there and he is looking for his priest (without staffs).

Where do priests come into play? Navarre never had any relations with any priests or priestesses (except maybe in the anime, but that doesn't count). I think you might be confusing Navarre with Julian or another character.

[General Spoon]

Where do priests come into play? Navarre never had any relations with any priests or priestesses (except maybe in the anime, but that doesn't count). I think you might be confusing Navarre with Julian or another character.

Navarre is chasing after Lena.