FE9 Tier List

[Zkirsche]

Yes, but how fast is he actually catching up? Considering he's only fielded on maps where he needs to do thief stuff that isn't stealing, that's not fast at all, especially if blossom isn't stripped off of him.

He's only catching up at the last few chapters when Volke has his level capped.

Don't get me wrong, i agree with Volke >>> Sothe. But..... we can't really do anything wit heitehr character at Volke > All the units he's below and Sothe < the units he's above.

[Florete]

Unless you promote him, in which case you'd lose the 50K, or so you claim.

Let me just throw this in there. I'm 99% sure you get the 50k no matter what you do with Volke.

[Zkirsche]

Let me just throw this in there. I'm 99% sure you get the 50k no matter what you do with Volke.

You get 70K from the gold whether or not you keep Volke, but there's teh 50K you give to him before he promotes, which they say is given back if you don't promote him.

I still doubt this. I've often had playthrough's where I didn't promote Volke and I still lost teh 50K you givee to him for the information.

[Florete]

I've always gotten exactly 50k (no 70k), and I've both promoted and not promoted him. Different versions of the game? Maybe...?

[Zkirsche]

I've always gotten exactly 50k (no 70k), and I've both promoted and not promoted him. Different versions of the game? Maybe...?

50K, I swear it was 70.

Still; I agree with you on thsi one; you do get money whether or not you promote Volke.

[Dat Nick]

Anyway

He's only catching up at the last few chapters when Volke has his level capped.

This is terribly vague, just so you know. Volke level-capping does not suddenly skyrocket Sothe's EXP gain, and Sothe is still being forced to eat out of the pool of EXP and can't get any combat in whatsoever so the level gap still remains. Actually, that could be a negative for him on the spd end, as he levels rather slowly due to his only source of EXP being BEXP and he may not reach the required AS to steal some stuff in time.

Oh yes, Volke's also netting the team some extra funding in C10 [statue Frag and Counter scroll combine to sell 5k which is pretty cool, also a Short Axe which Boyd/Kieran don't mind at all] which Sothe is not...so all of this might equate to a tier gap after all :/ [although still not 2]

Edited June 21, 2009 by GreenHairedDraco

[Tino]

This is kind of a worthless something, but I think Rolf deserves his own tier, since Bastian and Lucia at least can provide something good for the time they're there, while Rolf... well...

Just posted this on gfaqs:

1/0 Rolf

Rolf's Bow: 13 atk, 6 spd ,, 18 hp, 6 def, 2 res, 16 avo

If this would be chapter 1, he'd be fine offensively, and massive suck defensively. However, this isn't chapter 1, this is chapter 9. That means his performance is utter fail here. 15/11 atk can two-round him, and 10 spd can double him. He sucks hard.

20/2 Rolf

Steel Bow: 25 atk, 18 spd ,, 33 hp, 14 def, 9 res, 48 avo

For reference, he's worse than base level Mordecai (who's rather suck offensively and pretty kewl defensively at this moment, so overall is mediocre at best).

2 Mordecai, A Mist ,, B Ilyana

Claw: 31 atk, 10 spd ,, 41 hp, 20 def, 11 res, 30 avo

He doubles more, but survives much worse, only has player phase offense, thus only sees action on 33% of the map or something like that. So in order to be better than Mordecai, he needs to be more than three times as good as Mordecai overall. Now, assuming Rolf doubles and Mordecai does not:

Mordecai's 31 atk is enough to 2-3RKO everything. If something has 10 def, Rolf already isn't so likely to 2HKO anymore, thus 1-2RKOes everything. That means he's about 1.75 times as good as Mordecai offensively. Defensively he's obviously a lot worse. So overall, Rolf is a hell of a lot worse than base level Mordecai.

Now pick a different unit. Say, Devdan.

--/5 Devdan, C Tormod (1 lvl with KW)

Steel Lance: 26 atk, 14 spd ,, 37 hp, 13-14 def, 12 res, 44 avo

So they're pretty comparable when ignoring Rolf's mono-bows. So is Rolf three times as good as Devdan to really be comparable? No. Instead, we could see him as being like three times worse.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Funny thing about that is that I had him in a tier I called "Terrible but not worse than Est". I put him back in bottom tier cause there was some talk about the tiers having odd quantities since Bastian and Lucia are comparable to characters like Mia and they were the only 2 in bottom.

I suppose I could move Lucia and Bastian to the bottom of Low tier and keep Rolf alone in bottom.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Sirius

[Tino]

I guess, but since when does the amount of characters in a tier matter?

EDIT: Guess that's fine.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Tino

[Vykan12]

Lucia and Bastian should still be in bottom IMO. Not that it really matters, but low is crowded and they're a good deal worse than the people in that tier.

Rolf should still have his own tier of course. Graveyard/failure/Rick Astley on drugs/etc or something.

[Mekkah]

lol Tino, that's like carbon copies of things Reikken said about Rolf in official FEF debates

Also for Sothe and Volke, I don't think any kind of gap between them makes sense, since I'd just use both for thieving 100%.

[dondon151]

Except Volke's offense, while bad, is usable, while Sothe's offense isn't something that should even be considered because how many enemies are we damaging with 7 atk?

Base level Volke with Knife is about the same as base level Neph with Iron Lance.

[Tino]

lol Tino, that's like carbon copies of things Reikken said about Rolf in official FEF debates

The ch1/ch9 thing indeed comes from Reikken, because Reikken is awesome.

The other things I said I made up myself. Of course it's possible Reikken said similar things, but I didn't steal those from him.

Base level Volke with Knife is about the same as base level Neph with Iron Lance.

Possibly.

Not that it's a great accomplishment, since earlygame Nephenee is rather fail.

[Dat Nick]

At least it's entitling him to some CEXP. Have fun getting Sothe any.

[grandjackal]

So I don't suppose Volke's gonna get into High Tier, ya?

I mean first off, he needs no resources to be of use. I suppose that's why he's so high in the first place, along with the fact he's at least capable at combat. Capable of nabbing you your few physic staffs (Sothe can too, but I'd imagine that is a LOT more dangerous) under relative safety.

However, I suppose him needing an occult scroll to save his offense lategame is pretty bad, but it does come with a few perks that should be thought of.

Leathality is by no means reliable, but some enemies are pretty damn tough lategame. Some are pretty MVP too, like Bryce and the Dragons. Lethality can kill them when it activates, no matter what weapon he's got. It gives him a gamble factor. He can kill enemies in possibly one blow where none other unit can dream of such a thing (especially against Dragons). I suppose being one of Bastian's few real options in support means he can at least eventually help someone other than himself...He'd certainly appreciate the avoid.

However, I suppose giving him one of these screws a paladin out of Sol, so I guess my argument is flimsy, especially since it's on percent chance (despite the possible payoff it might have). At least those with Stillettos give him a greater percent chance, but I suppose I won't push it.

Oh wait! Uhh...I did not notice the Sothe and Volke thing going on. Uhh...is Volke having a chance at OHKOing a dragon (something I can't imagine anyone else doing ever) with a Knife good enough proof of there being a tier difference?

[-Cynthia-]

Lethality is Crit/2 %, it's a very crappy Mastery. It also would require us using Volke in combat. If Lethality doesn't activate on the first hit(which is almost all the time), Volke is doing piddly damage and has a high chance of dying.

[Colonel M]

Stiletto would be your best bet on trying to gamble with it, though it only boosts it up by, what, 5%? One thing that sucks though: can't forge Knives. At least Stiletto here is effective on Armors, but that's about all there is to be said on it.

[Zkirsche]

I'm going to push forward Rhys > Ilyana.

First off, Rhys has better supports (Titania + Kieran > Mordecai + Zihark), and one of those supports doesn't actually mind getting him. That unit is: Titania. See, Ike loves a Soren support, it helps balance out the crappy sword MT, which means that Titania isn't likely to get Ike. Then we have Mist who has Mordy and Jill. Heck, Mist also has Boyd. Mordy x Mist is practically a given, but what about Jill? It's def + Avo vs Def + Hit. You should soon realise that Jill is the better support partner. This means Titania gets Boyd and.... Rhys.

Ilyana on the other hand has Mordy, who has pretty much a given support with Mist, which leaves a second support partner. Notice Stefan, a unit higher up the tier list that Ilyana. Now, Mordy is one of Stefan's 2 supports; the other being Soren. By giving Mordy that Ilyana support, Stefan loses out on +1 Atk and + 1 Def. And we all know how much he loves durability boosts. So she doesn't get Mordy without a sacrifice. Then we have Zihark, who has Brom and Muarim. So she has to stop Zihark getting eitehr a water or Thunder support. Yeah that's pretty much detrimental.

Not being a detriment support wise > being a detriment.

Now let's look at statistics. Now, in order to give her a master seal we have to prevent the likes of Soren, who gains the exact same bonuses (If not more due to strength boost) and Mist, who gets more mobility afterwards. Heck, even Rhys can use it later on (Chapter 13 to be precise) So let's check out their performances then, giving both a master seal, Ilyana one at the start of chapter 11 and Rhys one just before the start of chapter 13:

12/2 Ilyana with forged thunder: 27 HP, 22.5 Atk, 13 AS, 35 Avo, 6 Def, 15.5 Res

15/1 Rhys with forged light, 'B' Titania: 27 HP, 26 Atk, 10 AS, 31.5 Avo, 6 Def, 22 Res

12/2 Ilyana with mend: 32.5 HP

15/1 Rhys with mend: 38 HP

Rhys is also likely to be able to use Restore the next chapter as Ilyana would need 24 uses of a heal/mend stave to get to C rank. Considering that there are 16 bexp turn limit in total between chapters 11 and 12, you'll have to heal/mend quite frequently. 8 heals in each chapter? Unlikely if you ask me.

Defensively, it's 3.5 Avo vs 6.5 Res. Pretty close. Offensively, it's 3.5 Atk vs 3 AS. But if you atatck, you don't heal. So sealing her was a pretty worthless use of a seal.

See, Ilyana shouldn't be that high as otehr units use that seal better and without it, she's inferier to Rhys as healing utility > combat utility.

I can understand Soren > Rhys as he does quite a bit from teh sealing, but I can't see ilyana > Rhys.

[Shadow Mir]

I'm going to push forward Rhys > Ilyana.

First off, Rhys has better supports (Titania + Kieran > Mordecai + Zihark), and one of those supports doesn't actually mind getting him. That unit is: Titania. See, Ike loves a Soren support, it helps balance out the crappy sword MT, which means that Titania isn't likely to get Ike. Then we have Mist who has Mordy and Jill. Heck, Mist also has Boyd. Mordy x Mist is practically a given, but what about Jill? It's def + Avo vs Def + Hit. You should soon realise that Jill is the better support partner. This means Titania gets Boyd and.... Rhys.

Ilyana on the other hand has Mordy, who has pretty much a given support with Mist, which leaves a second support partner. Notice Stefan, a unit higher up the tier list that Ilyana. Now, Mordy is one of Stefan's 2 supports; the other being Soren. By giving Mordy that Ilyana support, Stefan loses out on +1 Atk and + 1 Def. And we all know how much he loves durability boosts. So she doesn't get Mordy without a sacrifice. Then we have Zihark, who has Brom and Muarim. So she has to stop Zihark getting eitehr a water or Thunder support. Yeah that's pretty much detrimental.

Not being a detriment support wise > being a detriment.

Now let's look at statistics. Now, in order to give her a master seal we have to prevent the likes of Soren, who gains the exact same bonuses (If not more due to strength boost) and Mist, who gets more mobility afterwards. Heck, even Rhys can use it later on (Chapter 13 to be precise) So let's check out their performances then, giving both a master seal, Ilyana one at the start of chapter 11 and Rhys one just before the start of chapter 13:

12/2 Ilyana with forged thunder: 27 HP, 22.5 Atk, 13 AS, 35 Avo, 6 Def, 15.5 Res

15/1 Rhys with forged light, 'B' Titania: 27 HP, 26 Atk, 10 AS, 31.5 Avo, 6 Def, 22 Res

12/2 Ilyana with mend: 32.5 HP

15/1 Rhys with mend: 38 HP

Rhys is also likely to be able to use Restore the next chapter as Ilyana would need 24 uses of a heal/mend stave to get to C rank. Considering that there are 16 bexp turn limit in total between chapters 11 and 12, you'll have to heal/mend quite frequently. 8 heals in each chapter? Unlikely if you ask me.

Defensively, it's 3.5 Avo vs 6.5 Res. Pretty close. Offensively, it's 3.5 Atk vs 3 AS. But if you atatck, you don't heal. So sealing her was a pretty worthless use of a seal.

See, Ilyana shouldn't be that high as otehr units use that seal better and without it, she's inferier to Rhys as healing utility > combat utility.

I can understand Soren > Rhys as he does quite a bit from teh sealing, but I can't see ilyana > Rhys.

Never mind the fact that a forged light is financial suicide. Plus, FirexLight is a bad support combination. Not to mention the move difference between Rhys and Titania.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Ilyana on the other hand has Mordy, who has pretty much a given support with Mist, which leaves a second support partner. Notice Stefan, a unit higher up the tier list that Ilyana. Now, Mordy is one of Stefan's 2 supports; the other being Soren. By giving Mordy that Ilyana support, Stefan loses out on +1 Atk and + 1 Def. And we all know how much he loves durability boosts. So she doesn't get Mordy without a sacrifice. Then we have Zihark, who has Brom and Muarim. So she has to stop Zihark getting eitehr a water or Thunder support. Yeah that's pretty much detrimental.

It's only +1 ATK and + 1 DEF when it reaches B rank and this happens 4 chapters later while Ilyana's support would mean +1 DEF for both Ilyana and Mordy on C, +1 ATK and +2 DEF on B and the A support is +1 ATK and 3 DEF which happens a bit earlier than Mordy x Stefan B support. C support for those 2 is just 5 Accuracy.

I'm a noob when it comes to support so I'm not sure but isn't a support that's happening earlier and has better benefits for both supporters better than a support that's a bit later and really only benefits one unit?

Defensively, it's 3.5 Avo vs 6.5 Res. Pretty close. Offensively, it's 3.5 Atk vs 3 AS. But if you atatck, you don't heal. So sealing her was a pretty worthless use of a seal.

The hell is this?

Edited June 24, 2009 by Sirius

[Zkirsche]

Never mind the fact that a forged light is financial suicide. Plus, FirexLight is a bad support combination. Not to mention the move difference between Rhys and Titania.

Way to not counter my points about Titanis not having anyone else. Besides, canto helps the mov difference.

You have tonnes of funds by this point, it doesn't matter.

It's only +1 ATK and + 1 DEF when it reaches B rank and this happens 4 chapters later while Ilyana's support would mean +1 DEF for both Ilyana and Mordy on C, +1 ATK and +2 DEF on B and the A support is +1 ATK and 2 DEF which happens a bit earlier than Mordy x Stefan B support. C support for those 2 is just 5 Accuracy.

Whilst this is true, Stefan has no other support, meaning he doesn't care about the boosts he receives - he just wants some.

Normally, I'd agree with you - it's not worth teh wait. But he only has 1 otehr option. Which is why it's so devastating to Stefan support-wise if Mordy chooses Ilyana.

Not to mention you coudl just field Ulki for more water x ater goodness. That's +6 Atk and Def for Mordy. That's pretty good.

The hell is this?

The main reason that you promote Ilyana is for the stave boost, if she doesn't make good use of that stave use - ie healing often - then it's no different than giving Brom a quick boost in stats (Which he doesn't mind as + 1 mov and +spd is important for him).

Basically, you promoted Ilyana for a bonus she doesn't use.

Eitehr she's a combat unit or healer, but she cannot be both. I was undermining her combat utility.

Edited June 24, 2009 by kirsche

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Whilst this is true, Stefan has no other support, meaning he doesn't care about the boosts he receives - he just wants some.

Normally, I'd agree with you - it's not worth teh wait. But he only has 1 otehr option. Which is why it's so devastating to Stefan support-wise if Mordy chooses Ilyana.

Not to mention you coudl just field Ulki for more water x ater goodness. That's +6 Atk and Def for Mordy. That's pretty good.

Interesting... and we care more about +1 ATK and +1 DEF on Stefan over better and earlier bonuses on 2 characters... why?

Woah, +6 ATK and DEF for Mordy? How? (well I'm guessing you're putting the Mist support there which would actually be +5 ATK and DEF >_>) The difference between Mordy x Ilyana and Ulki x Mordy support at A is just 1 ATK 3 DEF vs 3 ATK and DEF. Why the fuck do you wanna just field Ulki for +2 ATK when Ilyana gives him the same DEF bonuses earlier and can act as a healer O_o?

The main reason that you promote Ilyana is for the stave boost, if she doesn't make good use of that stave use - ie healing often - then it's no different than giving Brom a quick boost in stats (Which he doesn't mind as + 1 mov and +spd is important for him).

Basically, you promoted Ilyana for a bonus she doesn't use.

Eitehr she's a combat unit or healer, but she cannot be both. I was undermining her combat utility.

And why exactly isn't she using healing? Who the hell said she always has to attack? O_o

Edited June 24, 2009 by Sirius

[grandjackal]

Lethality is Crit/2 %, it's a very crappy Mastery. It also would require us using Volke in combat. If Lethality doesn't activate on the first hit(which is almost all the time), Volke is doing piddly damage and has a high chance of dying.

Ohhhh, it works like GBA FE assassitnation...Thought it was just it's own thing like in RD.

Yeah, pardon me then.

[Shadow Mir]

Way to not counter my points about Titanis not having anyone else. Besides, canto helps the mov difference.

You have tonnes of funds by this point, it doesn't matter.

Never mind the fact that a forged light costs OVER 9000 gold. (To be specific, I've seen it go in the 22,000 range. And you're saying that we can throw THAT mich money around at a point in time where we don't have that much?) And Boyd might want Titania, since his attack is overkill as it is. He needs hit.

[Tino]

Eitehr she's a combat unit or healer, but she cannot be both. I was undermining her combat utility.

What? You're shoving off healing + combat as a worse combination than just combat or healing alone. That's just madness. Since when does 1 > 2 again?

Seriously, combat + healing allows a unit to fight something when necessary, and otherwise heal someone when necessary. It allows for much more flexibility and gives her more utility than she had when she just had combat.