FE9 Tier List

[-Cynthia-]

Gatrie starts at level 9, to get to 20/11 he has to get 22 level up's. Of those, only 21 are affected by the KW. To erase Haar's speed lead Gatrie needs 17 uses of the knight ward. That's 17/21 level up's where you gave gatrie the KW, I did the same with Brom a few pages back, and that was easily dismissed, this situation is no different and should not be treated differently. Haar easily has a speed lead and it does matter against the occasional enemy.

Gatrie's Atk lead matters more than Haar's Speed lead against everything but Wyverns and weird weighed down Halbs and such. If they both use a Brave, Gatrie wins. I do agree that Haar>Gatrie for the chapters they share, but Gatrie would still be the winner even if he lost statistics by a fair margin to be in line with the rest of the tier list.

I'm still pondering why Tormod > Haar. Haar has flying utility, canto, much better durability and doesn't require the babying Tormod needs to get good.

I do agree that Tormod moved up too far too quickly. He's really bad at jointime and requires a lot of BEXP to even reach promotion in a timely manner, much less start surpassing other characters.

Also, Gamble Mia isn't a horrible idea. Wtth a max hit Steel Forge and a B with anyone Mia has 158 hit at 20/1. This will drop to 108 Hit after Gamble, but enemies only have 18-30 avo around Ch17, so after factoring in true hit it's not a bad move, she's about 75-90% display while Gambling.

Edit: Oh right, it's halved. I guess we could add in A Rhys for 15 more hit, still leaves her hit rates a little funky. It might be useful for blicking warriors/generals though- her hit's still pretty good on them.

Edited July 5, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Though I see Gamble as doing more harm than good. Which is better, 100 Hit and 50 Crit or 50 Hit and 100 Crit? I'd say the former, for obvious reasons.

Doesn't her hit and the enemies' fail avoid make it more than 50 hit?

[Zkirsche]

Though I see Gamble as doing more harm than good. Which is better, 100 Hit and 50 Crit or 50 Hit and 100 Crit? I'd say the former, for obvious reasons.

Gamble only doubles crit, not adds 50 crit.

Because no1 has argued against it with Tino on this thread and I figured I should move him to spark something

That's because most people agreed with Tino - Tormod should be moved up. He shouldn't however, have been moved up this high.

I'm not seeing Mak above Astrid

Reasoning? I provided various statistics which were at reasonable levels and Mak came out the winner each time.

Gatrie's Atk lead matters more than Haar's Speed lead against everything but Wyverns and weird weighed down Halbs and such. If they both use a Brave, Gatrie wins. I do agree that Haar>Gatrie for the chapters they share, but Gatrie would still be the winner even if he lost statistics by a fair margin to be in line with the rest of the tier list

To be honest, I agree with Gatrie > Haar overall. It's just that you were trying to prove Gatrie > Haar in the chapters they share, which I do disagree with.

Also, Gamble Mia isn't a horrible idea. Wtth a max hit Steel Forge and a B with anyone Mia has 158 hit at 20/1. This will drop to 108 Hit after Gamble, but enemies only have 18-38 avo around Ch17, so after factoring in true hit it's not a bad move.

Gamble halves Hit, meaning her hit is only 79. This means she has displayed hit rates of ~55 or so. It's not worth the risk when the benefit is so small.

I recall digging up things for this argument, but I stopped because I figured that this benefits didn't outweigh the risks.

Edited July 5, 2009 by kirsche

[Shadow Mir]

Doesn't her hit and the enemies' fail avoid make it more than 50 hit?

It probably wouldn't be much higher. At any rate, I still think the risks of Gamble outweigh the benefits.

Also, Gamble Mia isn't a horrible idea. Wtth a max hit Steel Forge and a B with anyone Mia has 158 hit at 20/1. This will drop to 108 Hit after Gamble, but enemies only have 18-30 avo around Ch17, so after factoring in true hit it's not a bad move, she's about 75-90% display while Gambling.

Nope, nope, nope. She'll only have 79 hit before taking enemy avoid into account. Is it really worth the risk when the benefit is so small? I think not.

Gamble only doubles crit, not adds 50 crit.

I understand that.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

It probably wouldn't be much higher. At any rate, I still think the risks of Gamble outweigh the benefits.

Not if the hit pretty darn good since that would help her player phase offense and would help against the fact that she has to go up to an enemy and eat a counter-attack.

[dondon151]

Not if the hit pretty darn good since that would help her player phase offense and would help against the fact that she has to go up to an enemy and eat a counter-attack.

Except her hit is never "pretty darn good" to the point where cutting it in half is worth the marginal increase in crit.

Personally I've always given Gamble to Volke because knives have really high hit. I suppose you could give it to laguz as well; the only problem is that they get even less critical benefit.

Edited July 5, 2009 by dondon151

[grandjackal]

Let's run some numbers.

At promotion with a killer, her crit will be around the 80s with gamble on. By then, under best case scenerio though so keep that in mind, with A Rhys and B Illyana, wielding said weapon, she'll have...

78 hit before enemy lolavoid taken into consideration, or WT. OK yeah..Gamble sucks something royal ;;>>

Lets run some numbers on Volke with Gamble, who'd fucking love putting it to use.

At promotion with a Stilletto...I don't remember if Volke gets a crit boost, but I'm gonna assume he does, he has...

Generally the same hit with 50 crit displayed (25 chance of pulling out his silenced ppk and executing a fool).

Gamble is generally a lategame skill, I will tell you that much. You have to wait till skill is built the fuck up, and it helps to have an acc boosting support. Example.

Mia at 20/10 with her A B acc supports will have about 85 acc before lolenemy avoid taken into effect with a killer edge, however she'll have above 100 crit, to show that it's not impossible for swordmasters in FE9 to behave just like they did in the GBA games. I'd say it's a damn fair trade by then, especially since she's doubling.

As for Volke? Well let's say for shits and giggles he has an A with Bastian, since neither have anything better.

He'll have, with a Stiletto, almost 90 Acc before enemy avoid factored in. Crit-wise? 56 crit, 28 chance of silencing an enemy forever. He's starting to sound like Jaffar with sunglasses now.

As for offensively at base promotion, Volke with a Stilletto at promotion is as strong as a supportless Mia is with a silver BLADE, of which Volke has a monopoly on his weapon type. With supports factored in, comparable when she has a silver sword equipped. With Gamble and Silencer, his crit will hit as hard as Mia's would, except that while he might not crit as often, at times he will pull off a silencer and end an enemy that neither could have killed otherwise, such as a dragon.

Gamble is certainly best in these two's hands, and now you know why Stefan not only has bad luck, but supports that don't boost what his affinity does best.

Question! Can you land various crits during an Astra, or no? If so, lessee..

2 crits is technically x6 damage.

((5x1/2)x3)x2=x15 damage....

Edited July 5, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Shadow Mir]

Question! Can you land various crits during an Astra, or no?

Yes.

And as for Volke, there's no Silencer unless you're going to blow an Occult on Lethality.

[grandjackal]

Yes.

And as for Volke, there's no Silencer unless you're going to blow an Occult on Lethality.

Well then Astra's a bit more nutz than we thought. Mia can turn out to be a potential murderer with this combo.

As for Volke, it was assumed he wasn't getting it because the percent chance activation sucked. It doesn't suck anymore, at least not as bad as it used to be. Considering he's hitting pretty decently with 50 displayed crit, a quarter of the time he takes someone's life in one blow, I'd say gamble with this is a nice boost to his offense.

Others that could make possible use out of gamble.

Lethe: Probably the ONLY laguz who can put it to good use, and we have the holy affinity to thank! Her skill, luck, and supports help her hit more often than Mia with it. Only problem is the crit itself. Level 10, it's only yielding her 14 crit. Still, it helps her crit twice as often as she would have normally. Higher level, it only gets better. Gotta love Lethe's good luck.

Rolf: *various boos and hisses from the crowd* HEAR ME OUT! Rolf is still not good, as this is nothing but lategame at best for anyone. With him though, bow accuracy, sniper crit, killer access and wind affinity handing out accuracy boost (does he have bonds in this game with his bros? If he does, that helps him more ;;>>). This overall wouldmake Marcia and Rhys even more valuable support partners. If only they didn't have better off....

Nephenee: It's not due to accuracy (bad luck and lances get in the way of that), but rather it's Wrath. You now do not need to give a shit about killer weapons, as Wrath Gamble makes her automatically able to crit with anything no matter what. Luckily, she has an accuracy boosting affinity, high skill, and access to javelin forges...Basically she's gonna kill what she attacks. Like it's not even funny.

Devden: Considering his best support options boost accuracy, and he has skill and luck accounted for? He might not be as assured as Neph to crit, but he's more likely to hit.

Marcia: Same deal as Devden, just throw in flying might peel her off from supports, but overall better support options.

Otherwise, everyone either doesn't have the skill, the luck, supports, affinities, or weapon type.

[Shadow Mir]

Well then Astra's a bit more nutz than we thought. Mia can turn out to be a potential murderer with this combo.

As for Volke, it was assumed he wasn't getting it because the percent chance activation sucked. It doesn't suck anymore, at least not as bad as it used to be. Considering he's hitting pretty decently with 50 displayed crit, a quarter of the time he takes someone's life in one blow, I'd say gamble with this is a nice boost to his offense.

Others that could make possible use out of gamble.

Lethe: Probably the ONLY laguz who can put it to good use, and we have the holy affinity to thank! Her skill, luck, and supports help her hit more often than Mia with it. Only problem is the crit itself. Level 10, it's only yielding her 14 crit. Still, it helps her crit twice as often as she would have normally. Higher level, it only gets better. Gotta love Lethe's good luck.

Rolf: *various boos and hisses from the crowd* HEAR ME OUT! Rolf is still not good, as this is nothing but lategame at best for anyone. With him though, bow accuracy, sniper crit, killer access and wind affinity handing out accuracy boost (does he have bonds in this game with his bros? If he does, that helps him more ;;>>). This overall wouldmake Marcia and Rhys even more valuable support partners. If only they didn't have better off....

Nephenee: It's not due to accuracy (bad luck and lances get in the way of that), but rather it's Wrath. You now do not need to give a shit about killer weapons, as Wrath Gamble makes her automatically able to crit with anything no matter what. Luckily, she has an accuracy boosting affinity, high skill, and access to javelin forges...Basically she's gonna kill what she attacks. Like it's not even funny.

Devden: Considering his best support options boost accuracy, and he has skill and luck accounted for? He might not be as assured as Neph to crit, but he's more likely to hit.

Marcia: Same deal as Devden, just throw in flying might peel her off from supports, but overall better support options.

Otherwise, everyone either doesn't have the skill, the luck, supports, affinities, or weapon type.

But is it really worth giving up Vantage for Failstra? I think not. And Gamble takes up 10 capacity, Occult skills take up 20. You only get 25 capacity to work with. (Mounted units get 20.) Which means.... *takes out trumpet and plays The Price Is Right losing horn*

Oh, and as a bonus...

Edited July 5, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin

[grandjackal]

I fucking hate my memory. I forgot this is the compacted FE9 skill capacity we're dealing with here -_-;;

Ok fine, no real reason to give her gamble. Just give her Wrath, watch her go nuts.

Least we can say is that Volke can put it to good use.

[Colonel M]

Gamble might be alright on Volke, but almost every other unit sucks with it and needs some Crit help.

Volke doesn't get the "best" use of it though since his Crit involves the Skill stat, which is 11 by 20/1. That only means 11 base Crit, and then we have to factor oddball things such as enemy's Luck being decent.

Yeah, not seeing this work. If this was FE10, then Gamble!Volke would work well thanks to the +25% innate Crit and Stilleto offering some extra. The Hit rates with the Authority bonus would help it too. With Authority Volke w/Stilleto has 186 base Hit, 188 with +1 Skl if he got 2 level ups in 4-5. General's Avoid is about 50s, so let's just say it's 60 for the hell of it. If I did this right, he should have about 63% Hit with a ~70% chance of a Crit. IF I did this right.

Gamble sucks though. Don't become a Makalov.

EDIT: Someone like Stefan would make better use of Gamble with the Heaven affinity. If it's possible to get double Heaven, then the hit rates + Vague Katti would probably be sufficient.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Colonel M

[Vykan12]

Enemy stats are done. Whoever wanted to argue Bastian up can now has the resources to do so.

[soundecho]

Your levels are quite a bit off and I just realised. Astrid gets to lvl 5/0 which is a reasonable assumption (there's so many planks/chokepoints to let her attack or kill from and you can give her a steel bow or a forged iron by trading). Give her 500 BEXP which translates to 1000~ BEXP to her (we'll also give 500 BEXP to Mak). So it's more like 15/0 Astrid vs 10/Makalov.

Also Astrid doesn't need all her levels with the KW? 10 would me more than enough~

You also cannot get Mak to 13/0, as he is recruited in the middle of the chapter IIRC? So Astrid is actually there for half the chapter. When Mak is recruited there are about only 3 enemies that are near him while our main group is advancing to the boss.

Astrid also wins offense when she uses handaxes (when Mak pulls one out, his hit drops to about 100~ including supports but not WT).

Then she has all these uber special bows to her name, and she can easily change to an axe through reyson or something.

Edited July 5, 2009 by soundecho

[grandjackal]

Volke doesn't gain innate crit? Man, that's bullshit.

Anyways...Lessee the stats now, thank you Vykan.

...

Ok, strongest enemy on hte map 2RKOs Bastian, but it's the one wyvern lord with the silver lance, the boss, and the one warrior with a silver axe. Otherwise, the range is 3-6RKOd, as Bastian is not getting doubled. As for what he doubles..

All fighters

some cavs

All archers

the Sage with Bolganon

Halberdiers and soliders

all wyverns, which is huge considering he can be packing wind magic.

couple bandits.

The fact he's not doubling actually troublesome enemies is a major issue here. With his Elwind, he's packing 23 MT, though you could give him something with more power, considering not a damn thing is gonna weigh him down (seriously).

With Elwind, he can kill the cavs he doubles and handily destroys the wyverns, bitchslaps all the archers, all soldiers, and with Elthunder he can one round some fighters and the halberdiers. Everything else he generally 2RKOs, though a bit of it can be fixed with a single magic point.

Yeaahh...His offense isn't golden, but he's passable.

You can give him an arms scroll in fire if you want Bolgannon, he can already use Tornado, and can already use Bolting.

Luckily, his growths are pretty high. He remains steady and stable. He only needs like a single point of speed to start doubling other things like warriors.

Endgame is a bit dangerous, as some swordmasters have high AS (up to 26!? Only things that CAN double them are other swordmasters with maxed speed and Volke!). Generally by now though, He's not getting doubled by anything other than those psychotic swordmasters (seriously, they're nuts). However, do be careful of that one swordmaster, he can one round Bastian, and there's nothing he can do about it. However, against all other things not psycho coke fueled demons...

Strongest enemy, warriors with silver are 2RKOing him, everything else 3RKOs. Considering Soren and Illyana are not as durable as he even with supports (save Illyana MAYBE, considering unlike her that she gets weighed down by spells), it's not that bad. To two round generally (aside from the slow-ass generals, sages and wyvern lords), he needs to be packing something with 10 MT. If you got you got him somehow to A Thunder, he's perfectly fine. Otherwise, hope you saved Meteor and Bolting for him. However, I would be given the thought that with these bastardly stats, some chip damage would be appreciated a bit. Ashnard's bodyguards are absolute brutes. Especially if you're packing Bolgannon to chip at those damn laguz, some of your guys would enjoy not having to take a 35 MT attack. With Bolganon, he does 31 damage to these things, effectively 2 rounds them, Especially painful to cats.

Avoid-wise, by now...Best case Scenario is A Lucia, B Volke/Mak. This would give him 87 avoid. Lowest displayed on him is 11 Hit (Short Axe Paladin), highest being 64 (Bryce), to give a general range. Generally, he wants to stay away from laguz and Bryce, but otherwise he faces around 20-40 displayed hit, which isn't horrible per se. Speaking of which, that swordmaster nightmare guy, he has 31 displayed hit. Overall, his dodge isn't too bad under this configuration. With B Lucy and A Volke, shave the avoid by like 5. A Volke, B Mak, shave off 7. The one defense can actually make a difference here, as some Halberdiers fail to 3RKO him with that 1 defense point.

Overall though...Yeah, he hits some rocks here. Until endgame, he's being passable at best, but lategame the enemies take a spike, and people would love magical chip damage, especially with those fucking laguz. Might say chip damage has no point here, whereas I say it's probably best here. We can't just warp-skip this chapter, and these enemies are badass enough to take some shots from your guys like champs. Smoking a bit of health off them helps others cleanly one round these guys. Problem is his supports are heavily unlikely save Volke (who would appreciate the boost for gambling) and Lucia (who sucks, but helps make her nigh untouchable here). With Bastian alone, she has 88 avoid by then, and she also has Illin and Janaff to care for (with Janaff, she has 103 avoid, she's lucky to be hit by anything by then).

However, it's unlikely, as Lucia sucks as is just like him. So either way, he basically screams filler. They should have given him staffs or something to compensate. Why did they give him knives? Otherwise, I'd say Bastian is right where he belongs.

As for Lucia, she's pretty much in hte same boat as Bastian, except she has more move and crit at the cost of 1-2 range, and physical damage. However, with a silver blade, she can actually one round things. Durably, she basically have 10-15 more avoid than he does, but less durability, but at least she can increase her avoid gap with some WTA that actually matters. In endgame though, I'd value her doubling and crit to be a bit more reliable, despite being a bit weaker in hitting, along with her much more reliable avoid.

..Either way, Largo in a bit.

Largo. Been said he has problems defensively. Well certainly he has no offensive problems, he doubles everything but swordmasters his joining chapter. He can one round cats in his joining chapter. Defensively? Lessee...

Weakest enemy (sniper with longbow, 18 MT) 6RKOs him, strongest (warrior, 30 MT) 3RKOs him, or more specifically 2 1/2RKOs him. Leaves him with 10 HP, which generally all but 2 enemies can take down. Otherwise for the most part he's getting 4-5RKOd. You can thank his stupidly large HP. Main problem is his dodge, as 54 avoid isn't exactly impressive. Lesse how it measures up though.

Tigers have the highest accuracy, they pull off 136 hit, which to Largo equates to 79 hit. Ouch...Lowest hit (axer, 90 hit) is pulling a 36 displayed hit. Overall though, his dodge...isn't exactly shiny. 120% avoid growth is a bit meh as well. Not unfixable though, due to wind affinity.

Or at least it would, if he had any good supports/supports that actually helped avoid. He can support Mia, Muarim (who also gives him 1 def), Devden and Tauroneo. He wants Muarim and Taur for best durability, but Taur doesn't even want supports. Muarim is most likely stacked up. Mia does not help his evade enough (3 points a level) though she does give him even greater offense, same with Devden. All but Devden might be stocked up, and Dev's got Neph to consider for A while he doesn't give that big a shit about Tormod to pick him over Largo despite Tormod coming earlier, and loving hte full offense boost. The problem is Dev is part of a support square with Cal, Neph and Tor, which without Devden, Tormod cannot pull off a delicious full power support. Overall Largo might be a better unit, but Tormod comes sooner and GREATLY benefits from Dev, and Dev does not mind the offense he gets in return. Support-wise, Largo is shit out of luck. Also, having 54 hit at base is not particularly impressive, so he would appreciate Mia and Dev. All his supports would benefit him in some way, but they're all one sided and they all have to wait a painfully long time for him to show up.

Endgame? Well, does level 16 sound unreasonable for him?

If it doesn't, guess what? Largo's actually mighty impressive here, as he doubles the most common enemy on the map (paladins, which he can ORKO with a plain ol silver axe), avoids the double from the psycho swordmaster (though Largo's bad luck comes into play, and a crit can royally fuck Largo's day up no matter who it is), and it takes 3 of the strongest enemy on the map, as generally everything else generally 4-5RKOs him. His main problem is not his concrete durability though, it's his dodge.

Measure this as you will.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[dondon151]

I only mentioned Volke because his hit is semi-reliable after being cut in half and he really does need to crit to do anything that resembles damage. Gamble sucks in general.

[grandjackal]

I only mentioned Volke because his hit is semi-reliable after being cut in half and he really does need to crit to do anything that resembles damage. Gamble sucks in general.

Then no one but Volke should care to have it then, ya?

[Dat Nick]

Zihark's pretty good with it, too.

[dondon151]

The thing is that swords have 15-20 less hit than knives, which translates to around 7-10 less hit after Gamble, and that does matter. Volke has a slightly superior skill growth and Zihark's supports can only possibly grant half hit.

[grandjackal]

Zihark's pretty good with it, too.

Also keep in mind his skill and luck are generally lower than Mia's, who herself has problems using it even maxed supports for accuracy.

Anyways Largo. It is shown that he doesn't have real durability problems. He should rise. Example, Geoffery's that high. Geoffery has a mountain to deal with, while Largo couldn't give a shit. Also due to his high HP, he is better at taking boulders. He also has a serious offensive advantage. I'd say the win goes to Largo off the bat.

Even considering, while Geoff might have a defensive advantage at endgame, Largo's got a serious offense advantage. Largo can freaking one-round some of the bastards in endgame, Geoff has no hope of doing this without like a brave lance. Actually scratch that, he can't because thanks to his base speed he averages a point SHORT of doubling the most common enemy on the map, so Largo has a seriously wtf offense advantage on Geoff.

I'd say Largo has every reason to rise up at LEAST to his level, perhaps even above him. Geoff might take less resources, but Largo puts said resources to good use.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Zkirsche]

Your levels are quite a bit off and I just realised. Astrid gets to lvl 5/0 which is a reasonable assumption (there's so many planks/chokepoints to let her attack or kill from and you can give her a steel bow or a forged iron by trading). Give her 500 BEXP which translates to 1000~ BEXP to her (we'll also give 500 BEXP to Mak). So it's more like 15/0 Astrid vs 10/Makalov.

Also Astrid doesn't need all her levels with the KW? 10 would me more than enough~

You also cannot get Mak to 13/0, as he is recruited in the middle of the chapter IIRC? So Astrid is actually there for half the chapter. When Mak is recruited there are about only 3 enemies that are near him while our main group is advancing to the boss.

I was talking about chapter 16. And lol@giving mak 500 bexp and him staying at base level.

Astrid also wins offense when she uses handaxes (when Mak pulls one out, his hit drops to about 100~ including supports but not WT).

Forges ftw.

Then she has all these uber special bows to her name, and she can easily change to an axe through reyson or something.

She has swords, which allow for better WT control and gives him enemy phase.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Forges ftw.

Not requiring forges ftw.

[Zkirsche]

Not requiring forges ftw.

It's not like you lack the funds for it.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

It's not like you lack the funds for it.

It is still a requisite however and do keep in mind that the money used for forging this weapon could be used for something else. I'm not suggesting not to use forges but let's not go overboard and be reasonable with it. If one character gets a forge, the other character in comparison should get a forge as well, on a beneficial stat as long as it's equal or reasonable value.

[Zkirsche]

It is still a requisite however and do keep in mind that the money used for forging this weapon could be used for something else. I'm not suggesting not to use forges but let's not go overboard and be reasonable with it. If one character gets a forge, the other character in comparison should get a forge as well, on a beneficial stat as long as it's equal or reasonable value.

I never said Astrid couldn't. They all stay on the same ratio gap-wise, except mak gets an accuracy boost which slows down Astrid's hit lead by quite a bit.