FE9 Tier List

[Dr. Tarrasque]

If you have something to say, then say it. If there's a possibility that it brings something new to consider of Ranulf or Haar, then hey we learned something new.

If you fail, at least you'll know not to bring that up again.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Sirius

[grandjackal]

Blughagh! Fine, I'll bullet bullet-point them.

-Neph's other supports have other choices. Namely Brom has Zihark and Boyd, of who give him better bonuses, and giving away better (Zihark gets the same bonuses, gives better bonuses in return. Boyd gives and receives moar power, along with much loved defense). Neph wouldn't mind Devdan. Tormod's not good, but he appreciates sucking less with Dev's help. If no else to go, might as well go Largo for the minimal bonuses, especially since Largo's low on friends, yet is a perfectly capable unit. Overall, Devdan's supports are more beneficial to using a team.

-Gat however, is a useless support to Astrid, as defensive boosts are completely useless on a paladin with good evade, an A support with a durability boosting support, canto. The major move difference as well. They can B, the question is when does it come into play? Then consider Illyana who would love the avoid boost with Zihark loving mroe defense. As good as a support with Illyana would be for both, it won't stop her from being a problematic unit later. 2 slow bastards who can't double and lagging behind does not help my team. With Illyana's speed and considering she needs heavy spells to have any form of offense later, she might even get doubled later. Hatrie support ain't helping her durability, and both in turn are failures lategame.

-Dev can use the KW as much as Gat does, if not to better effect because Devdan has better move, thus puts it's defensive boosts to better use, along with having better growths and having to work with more speed to get to doubling faster, while Gat...never does. Gat may have use earlygame but Dev in turn gets to be a not-shitty unit who actually helps others. Hell, endgame Gatrie can't double. It's impossible. You need 24 AS, and Gatrie's cap rapes him. Devdan don't have this problem, because Devdan fights like 10 men.

My points in defending Devdan.

[Bright]

Blughagh! Fine, I'll bullet bullet-point them.

-Neph's other supports have other choices. Namely Brom has Zihark and Boyd, of who give him better bonuses, and giving away better (Zihark gets the same bonuses, gives better bonuses in return. Boyd gives and receives moar power, along with much loved defense). Neph wouldn't mind Devdan. Tormod's not good, but he appreciates sucking less with Dev's help. If no else to go, might as well go Largo for the minimal bonuses, especially since Largo's low on friends, yet is a perfectly capable unit. Overall, Devdan's supports are more beneficial to using a team.

-Gat however, is a useless support to Astrid, as defensive boosts are completely useless on a paladin with good evade, an A support with a durability boosting support, canto. The major move difference as well. They can B, the question is when does it come into play? Then consider Illyana who would love the avoid boost with Zihark loving more defense. As good as a support with Illyana would be for both, it won't stop her from being a problematic unit later. 2 slow bastards who can't double and lagging behind does not help my team. With Illyana's speed and considering she needs heavy spells to have any form of offense later, she might even get doubled later. Gatrie support ain't helping her durability, and both in turn are failures lategame.

Wait a minute, here. Illyana has a lack of doubling, I grant you, but she won't be doubled herself unless against cats or SMs, I should think. Her strength lets her offensive power keep up with the other Mages. That combined with Gatrie making a half-decent shield for her makes Illyana - Gatrie not terribad. He does in fact help defensively, being able to charge into enemies that aren't mages as a fair distraction, and adding Illyana's ability that she comes with, the 2 make a decent duo.

I'm not opposing your argument about Gatrie's supports being worse, but that bit is off.

-Dev can use the KW as much as Gat does, if not to better effect because Devdan has better move, thus puts it's defensive boosts to better use, along with having better growths and having to work with more speed to get to doubling faster, while Gat...never does. Gat may have use earlygame but Dev in turn gets to be a not-shitty unit who actually helps others. Hell, endgame Gatrie can't double. It's impossible. You need 24 AS, and Gatrie's cap rapes him. Devdan don't have this problem, because Devdan fights like 10 men.

My points in defending Devdan.

I'm gonna have to be a bit of a pain here. Endgame comparison:

Devdan (Full KW use) Gatrie (Full KW use from 20/1)

48 HP.............................................58 HP

23.6 Str..........................................29 Str

11.8 Mag........................................3.5 Mag

21.4 Skl.........................................24.5 Skl

23.7 Spd........................................20.2 Spd

22.4 Lck.........................................12.5 Lck

18.2 Def.........................................30 Def

14 Res...........................................12 Res

[8.3 Mag, 3.5 Spd, 9.9 Lck] -> Devdan's advantages

[10 HP, 5.4 Str, 3.1 Skl, 11.8 Def] -> Gatrie's advantages

Neither double reliably, though Devdan might get doubled less himself and could possibly get 24 spd for the bare minimum. Still, Gatrie may have higher damage output depending on that .7 in speed and the enemies fought, and that HP / Def oneup solidly places Gatrie on even or better defensive ground, I should think.

Endgame Gatrie may or may not be better overall with supports, but just for the stats, he appears to be in better shape than Devdan.

[grandjackal]

Wait a minute, here. Illyana has a lack of doubling, I grant you, but she won't be doubled herself unless against cats or SMs, I should think. Her strength lets her offensive power keep up with the other Mages. That combined with Gatrie making a half-decent shield for her makes Illyana - Gatrie not terribad. He does in fact help defensively, being able to charge into enemies that aren't mages as a fair distraction, and adding Illyana's ability that she comes with, the 2 make a decent duo.

I'm not opposing your argument about Gatrie's supports being worse, but that bit is off.

6 Str? With her offense, she'll be needing something that pakcs punch, and nothing light packs such a punch. Thoron weighs 12. She's barely faster than Bastian (a dude known for being slow as molasses). She is easily doubled. She faced to go MUCH lower before the early sealing, she is epic fail lategame.

I'm gonna have to be a bit of a pain here. Endgame comparison:

Devdan (Full KW use) Gatrie (Full KW use from 20/1)

48 HP.............................................58 HP

23.6 Str..........................................29 Str

11.8 Mag........................................3.5 Mag

21.4 Skl.........................................24.5 Skl

23.7 Spd........................................20.2 Spd

22.4 Lck.........................................12.5 Lck

18.2 Def.........................................30 Def

14 Res...........................................12 Res

[8.3 Mag, 3.5 Spd, 9.9 Lck] -> Devdan's advantages

[10 HP, 5.4 Str, 3.1 Skl, 11.8 Def] -> Gatrie's advantages

Neither double reliably, though Devdan might get doubled less himself and could possibly get 24 spd for the bare minimum. Still, Gatrie may have higher damage output depending on that .7 in speed and the enemies fought, and that HP / Def oneup solidly places Gatrie on even or better defensive ground, I should think.

Endgame Gatrie may or may not be better overall with supports, but just for the stats, he appears to be in better shape than Devdan.

Er...uhh...well...Devden has better uhh...Flame Lance use, and uh...skills...*runs*

[Vykan12]

Cynthia ignored the period where Gatrie wasn't promoted and Devdan joined, so the AS gap would be huge there. Otherwise I'm in agreement.

[Shadow Mir]

Thoron weighs 12.

Incorrect/10

Thoron only weighs 7. Nosferatu, now THAT weighs 12.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin

[-Cynthia-]

Cynthia ignored the period where Gatrie wasn't promoted and Devdan joined, so the AS gap would be huge there. Otherwise I'm in agreement.

You're right, but this period is probably fairly small, Devdan joins midway through Ch16, Gatrie should be promoting somewhere in Ch17, possibly 18.

Edited July 9, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[grandjackal]

Incorrect/10

Thoron only weighs 7. Nosferatu, now THAT weighs 12.

*facedeskfacedeskfacedeskfacedesk* DAMMIT!!

Rrrr...Alright, lessee what other things...

...Is anyone in disagreement with Largo>Taur?

[Bright]

I was about to post a fair sized counter over Ilyana's offense and looked down to see what happened. My post was pretty redundant. I looked at Largo and Tauroneo.

I totally agree. Largo pretty much beats Tauroneo up and down. His defensive issues are not to be ignored, but Tauroneo can't double ANYTHING. Heck, most of the game doubles him! That pretty much negates any offensive or defensive lead Tauroneo may have had. Supports could drag him up a bit, but there's just too much of a gap.

[grandjackal]

Resolve kinda puts a positive spin on that, but...Taur doesn't exactly put that to the best of use ;;>>

Largo's defensive issues are rather overblown, he holds his own pretty decently.

Either way, seems I got an agreement.

[Bright]

Resolve kinda puts a positive spin on that, but...Taur doesn't exactly put that to the best of use ;;>>

Largo's defensive issues are rather overblown, he holds his own pretty decently.

Either way, seems I got an agreement.

You can't really let Tauroneo run around at half health for too long; his defenses are good, but not that good, and he gets doubled occasionally regardless.

Guess who forgot Resolve!

~_~

Also, Largo does have the issue, even if it isn't huge. His defense (the stat) is a small step from mage / priest territory.

(Small step being 2.5, 3.55, 3.3, 2.55, a .75 loss! to Tormond, a loss to Calill and Bastian, and a loss to Elincia)

Edited July 9, 2009 by Bright

[Vykan12]

Tauroneo getting to below half hp is the true battle, not maintaining that state. With 48 hp/22 def, fighter do 3 damage to him while most other things tink, and it's not like his avo is nonexistent. He'd have to throw himself at a group of mages or tigers for a few turns to absorb the required amount of damage, and from there he can use vulneraries to keep his hp from dropping dangerously low.

[grandjackal]

Tauroneo getting to below half hp is the true battle, not maintaining that state. With 48 hp/22 def, fighter do 3 damage to him while most other things tink, and it's not like his avo is nonexistent. He'd have to throw himself at a group of mages or tigers for a few turns to absorb the required amount of damage, and from there he can use vulneraries to keep his hp from dropping dangerously low.

Does it help his case anyways? -_-

[Bright]

Tauroneo getting to below half hp is the true battle, not maintaining that state. With 48 hp/22 def, fighter do 3 damage to him while most other things tink, and it's not like his avo is nonexistent. He'd have to throw himself at a group of mages or tigers for a few turns to absorb the required amount of damage, and from there he can use vulneraries to keep his hp from dropping dangerously low.

Um... I'm going to go with "No" on this bit. During the endgame, hardly anything tinks at all. The swordmasters can do damage, or at least one can, and by and large it's pretty easy to get him hurt.

Throw in his General move, with which he can't escape that group of... anything, really, and he's done after 2 turns, at best. I know, Physics, but the point stands that he will die pretty darn fast.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Bright

[Vykan12]

By endgame, Tauroneo should be max lvl (he only needs to gain 6 in 9 chapters), which gives him 52hp/26 def. Excluding dragons, enemies have 28-35ish atk. He's taking 2-10 damage per attack, less if we insist on giving him the KW. He also has 65 avo before supports, and can increase it to 75 with vines against 110ish hit. True, it's not quite as easy for him to maintain resolve as it was before (though still completely manageable), but that's because enemies take a huge spike in this level.

[grandjackal]

Again though, does this help Taur at all? -_-

[Vykan12]

In regards to Tauroneo vs Largo? Of course it does. Tauroneo can repair his AS a lot easier than Largo can repair his low def/res.

[grandjackal]

In regards to Tauroneo vs Largo? Of course it does. Tauroneo can repair his AS a lot easier than Largo can repair his low def/res.

It requires the player to drive all enemies to a shitty-offensive unit who doesn't want to help anyone with supports as it just makes it harder for them, when they could be driven to a unit who is perfectly able to hold his own with much better offense.

Like Largo ^^ His defense isn't omgwtfhax, but it's good enough for his job.

[dondon151]

Wouldn't Provoke help Tauroneo get to Resolve HP as well as maximizing exposure when under Resolve HP and providing a roundabout solution to his poor move?

[soundecho]

Too get Tauroneo under half hp, have him rescue someone and go to a mage or something.

Anyway to be fare to Devdan, 24 AS doubles the majorities of things at endgame (I think Vykan took the upper end of the stats as I cats and pallies both gave AS ranging from 20~21).

[grandjackal]

Too get Tauroneo under half hp, have him rescue someone and go to a mage or something.

Sweet, needing to waste two unit slots to make one guy useful, awesome.

[soundecho]

Too bad the game bombards you with extra slots and at most we're using 12 people~

Edited July 9, 2009 by soundecho

[Dat Nick]

I think the bigger issue with that strategy is that you're wasting a unit's turn by letting Taur go emo and torch himself.

[Vykan12]

Taur at least 2 rounds before resolve kicks in whereas Largo dying is irreversible.

[Colonel M]

Taur can also slap Vantage or Wrath if it's around, making it awesome with Resolve. Remember: Vantage runs off of Skill activation. Even Adept could be considered on Tauroneo considering that it activates 18% of the time at base, higher with a Brave weapon (assuming the skill works like FE10's Adept), and Resolve kicks up the percantage to 27%.