FE9 Tier List

[-Cynthia-]

Now, I don't particularly care for Largo > Taur.

But I am wanting Largo into lower mid, his offence is very good and his availability is comparable to Geoffrey's, who's an entire tier ahead of him. His durability isn't a massive issue either with decent avo and good HP, all he's lacking is res and def.

I guess Largo could leapfrog Sothe, except Sothe is marginally useful for 6 maps, Largo is marginally useful for 5. It's difficult to compare the two, I think resolving Largo vs. Taur is the best way to determine if Largo jumps.

He didn't give Largo a forge, which may help his offence a lot.

"I could forge a silver axe, but why would I? I could just give him a normal silver axe and nothing would change"

His words, not mine. It probably does make a difference somewhere but I'm too lazy to recheck all the numbers,.

[cheetah7071]

You know what? You're right. Taur can have it over those 3, because we know Largo has competition for his basic silver weapons...*rolls eyes*

Taur doesn't need it every turn, only when he levels up. Making sure he has it every level up would be hard, but most of them? not really.

[Dat Nick]

I hardly think it would make a difference anyway, considering his AS would go to "Shitty when not resolved" to "Shitty when not resolved".

Vykan made a good point about Tauro having issues GETTING to half HP in the first place, anyway, so while Largo's durability might be meh, Tauro's offense sucks ten different kinds of ass chunks, and don't even think about bringing this shit about brave weapons up because they're only saving his offense for 15 rounds and we get those weapons a HELL of a lot earlier than we get him.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Norton Says What?

[-Cynthia-]

I hardly think it would make a difference anyway, considering his AS would go to "Shitty when not resolved" to "Shitty when not resolved".

Vykan made a good point about Tauro having issues GETTING to half HP in the first place, anyway, so while Largo's durability might be meh, Tauro's offense sucks ten different kinds of ass chunks, and don't even think about bringing this shit about brave weapons up because they're only saving his offense for 15 rounds and we get those weapons a HELL of a lot earlier than we get him.

We get the Brave Sword the same chapter chapter we get Taur I think, and the Brave Lance comes later.

[Colonel M]

I did illustrate that getting into Resolve HP is fairly difficult. Taking C23 for example, he'd have to stand in the Blizzard Sage's range for 3 turns, but even so it has a little over 50% hit rates.

Maybe if the coefficient for class-effective weapons was x3 instead of x2 it'd be a hell of a lot easier in some cases. Though I noticed in that chapter (23) that there is a Swordmaster with 28 Atk (27 with WTD) and still does 8 damage per hit and Taur can just unequip himself and get 10 damage per turn + hit from the Blizzard unit, thus putting him toward Resolve range by the second turn.

It's difficult to throw him into Resolve range, but once he's there...

[grandjackal]

Two last things I wanna say.

-A difference I can make with Largo with a forge is adding crit to his weapon. Adding 15, I just boosted his crit to 40. However, a forge for Taur doesn't change much as his main problem is doubling. At best it changes things from 4RKOing that general and wyvern lord to 3RKOing. The fact he needs a forge to do what Largo does with basic weapons is not helping his case.

-Braves do not help his case much at all. Brave lance is 5 MT weaker than silver, it's no different than a forge weapon, except that Taur will break it faster. Besides, there are those who would like the brave lance, Brom and Gatling gun for example. For how tough these lategame guys are, I'd actually imagine those with actual speed wanting brave weapons to more reliably one round some of these guys. Neph comes to mind immediately.

-Does the fact that Largo doesn't need any of this bullshit to be superior just escape everyone?

Speaking of which, about Boyd. Boyd at 20/20 on average never reaches 24 AS, while Largo actually has the possibility in his grasp. Their durability is also VERY similar, where Largo might have more HP while Boyd will have a tidbit more defense. Boyd will have more resistance though. On top of it all though, Largo's got crit.

So if he gets to doubling speed he'll be doing better than Boyd, and that fucker's in goddamn high tier. Once he hits level 16, it's gangbusters, as now he's ORKOing a majority of the map that take the form of paladins. 1 more speed, you can add freaking cats to the list.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Colonel M]

You can only add +9 Crit to a weapon by the way.

EDIT: Not that it is saving Boyd much, but he can use a +Spd Band and obtain a little extra in the growth.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Colonel M

[grandjackal]

You can only add +9 Crit to a weapon by the way.

Fine, 34, much a difference?

EDIT: Not that it is saving Boyd much, but he can use a +Spd Band and obtain a little extra in the growth.

Speaking of speed bands, Largo can slap one on, and boost his growth to 50%. 1 speed every 2 levels. Will get him to 24 AS a level sooner.

[Dat Nick]

Hey...

If we're doing this "oh healing doesn't matter that much" card, then I want Elincia in bottom tier. nao. Or at the very least below guys who don't suck as much as her in combat [Ena and Lucia]

Edited July 10, 2009 by Norton Says What?

[dondon151]

Speaking of which, about Boyd. Boyd at 20/20 on average never reaches 24 AS, while Largo actually has the possibility in his grasp. Their durability is also VERY similar, where Largo might have more HP while Boyd will have a tidbit more defense. Boyd will have more resistance though. On top of it all though, Largo's got crit.

So if he gets to doubling speed he'll be doing better than Boyd, and that fucker's in goddamn high tier. Once he hits level 16, it's gangbusters, as now he's ORKOing a majority of the map that take the form of paladins. 1 more speed, you can add freaking cats to the list.

Where in this comparison is durability o wait-

[Vykan12]

I'm wondering how good Taur's offence with a brave weapon actually is so I investigated it a bit.

With the brave lance, he has 33 atk. In chp 22 that ORKOes anything except for a lone tiger he does 64% damage to. In 23 he falls short on 2 warriors, 2 paladins, 2 cats and 2 tigers. TBH his offence is actually pretty awesome with the brave, it's really only some of the more durable promoted units he'll run into trouble with.

The other problem is his resolve speed. At base level, it's only 19... though that allows him to double anything but SMs and tigers/cats, the former of which he 1HKOes (with a steel lance, he has 43 atk while an SM has a combined hp/def of 40). Let's say he gained one level in 2 chapters and used the KW on that level-up, and now he has a 60% chance of having 21 spd. Now he doubles everything in chp 24 except for 2 SMs (which he 1HKOes) and the boss. If we get him to 18 by clash, he'll have 36 str and 23 AS in resolve mode. Same story from a doubling perspective. At max lvl, his resolve spd is 25, which is better than some of your best endgame d00ds. With a laguz lance, he can 1RKO dragons normally, so his offence would be downright exceptional. In contrast, max level Oscar with a laguz lance only does 70% damage to a lower end dragon in 28.

Tl;dr Tauroneo's brave and resolve offence should not be questioned, the latter is actually better than some of your characters lategame.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Vykan12

[grandjackal]

Statistic difference between a 20/10 Boyd and base Largo is 3 def and 5 Res, with practically the same dodge. Pretty damn similar durably. Sure, Boyd's got an obvious lead, but it's not like it's 6 Def and 8 Res here.

As for dragonslaying endgame, Largo can just do that with 2 crits with a normal silver axe. Granted it's unlikely, but he can actually double these things with existent crit. Didn't have to have Largo waste enemy phase with shitty offense to get his ass kicked to do it either.

Resolve does not make up for how balls he is before it kicks in, nor does it excuse what it takes to get him there in the first place.

[Dat Nick]

tauro with braves and resolve is a pretty cool gai

Nobody ever disputed that he's fine with braves and has decent resolve offense, you know.

The issue with braves is that he only gets 30 rounds MAX out of them, and the issue with resolve is that it takes him way too long to get there and he sucks before then unless he eats up a brave use which other guys want just as badly.

[Tino]

Statistic difference between a 20/10 Boyd and base Largo is 3 def and 5 Res, with practically the same dodge. Pretty damn similar durably. Sure, Boyd's got an obvious lead, but it's not like it's 6 Def and 8 Res here.

More like 1 hp, 4 def and 6 res. Largo has 1 avo (ohnoez).

Then add in possible support bonuses and he actually does have 6 def and 8 res on him.

So I don't know why you're comparing Largo's durability to Boyd's.

[Vykan12]

Def gaps are also more pronounced in this game because of how low enemy att is in general.

Boyd lv 20/10 (A Brom, B Mist): 53 hp, 16 def, 11 res, 51 avo

Largo base lv: 52 hp, 10 def, 3 res, 52 avo

---

1x Raven lv 11 (beak)

38 hp, 21 atk, 20 AS, 124 hit, 42 avo, 14 def, 11 res, 8 crit, 2 cev

Boyd is 11HKOed, Largo is 5HKOed.

1x Swordmaster lv 7 (steel sword)

35 hp, 22 atk, 19 AS, 117 hit, 44 avo, 10 def, 6 res, 24 crit, 6 cev

Boyd is 8HKOed, Largo is 4HKOed.

1x Sage lv 6 (elthunder, mend)

30 hp, 22 atk, 13 AS, 94 hit, 29 avo, 10 def, 16 res, 16 crit, 3 cev

Boyd is 5HKOed, Largo is 3HKOed.

3x Cat lv 9-10 (claw)

42 hp, 27 atk, 18 AS, 114 hit, 38 avo, 18 def, 9 res, 8 crit, 2 cev

Boyd is 5HKOed, Largo is very close to being 3HKOed.

1x Warrior lv 10 (steel axe)

47 hp, 30 atk, 13 AS, 97 hit, 32 avo, 13 def, 7 res, 6 crit, 6 cev

Boyd is 4HKOed, Largo is 3HKOed.

Pretty decisive losses IMO.

[Zkirsche]

Are people forgetting that Largo can use a brave too? Except he attacks 2* as much due to doubling naturally.

Edited July 11, 2009 by kirsche

[Tino]

Are people forgetting that Largo can use a brave too? Except he attacks 4* as much due to doubling naturally.

In response to what is this supposed to be? Since, y'know, I don't think there's anyone who attacks only once with a brave weapon (unless it has one use leftover, obviously), and Largo definitely isn't attacking eight times with it.

So yeah, I've no idea what you're talking about.

[Zkirsche]

In response to what is this supposed to be? Since, y'know, I don't think there's anyone who attacks only once with a brave weapon (unless it has one use leftover, obviously), and Largo definitely isn't attacking eight times with it.

So yeah, I've no idea what you're talking about.

I meant 2* as much.

Largo is very close to being 3HKOed.

"Very close" means nothing in this scenario as this is base largo, meaning he can't be screwed durably.

Edited July 11, 2009 by kirsche

[grandjackal]

Def gaps are also more pronounced in this game because of how low enemy att is in general.

Boyd lv 20/10 (A Brom, B Mist): 53 hp, 16 def, 11 res, 51 avo

Largo base lv: 52 hp, 10 def, 3 res, 52 avo

---

1x Raven lv 11 (beak)

38 hp, 21 atk, 20 AS, 124 hit, 42 avo, 14 def, 11 res, 8 crit, 2 cev

Boyd is 11HKOed, Largo is 5HKOed.

1x Swordmaster lv 7 (steel sword)

35 hp, 22 atk, 19 AS, 117 hit, 44 avo, 10 def, 6 res, 24 crit, 6 cev

Boyd is 8HKOed, Largo is 4HKOed.

1x Sage lv 6 (elthunder, mend)

30 hp, 22 atk, 13 AS, 94 hit, 29 avo, 10 def, 16 res, 16 crit, 3 cev

Boyd is 5HKOed, Largo is 3HKOed.

3x Cat lv 9-10 (claw)

42 hp, 27 atk, 18 AS, 114 hit, 38 avo, 18 def, 9 res, 8 crit, 2 cev

Boyd is 5HKOed, Largo is very close to being 3HKOed.

1x Warrior lv 10 (steel axe)

47 hp, 30 atk, 13 AS, 97 hit, 32 avo, 13 def, 7 res, 6 crit, 6 cev

Boyd is 4HKOed, Largo is 3HKOed.

Pretty decisive losses IMO.

Forgot Boyd supports to water bastards....

Either way, let's look at these enemies offensively.

Lessee, base level Largo with silver one rounds the sage, 1RKOs the warrior, 2RKOs the rest due to not doubling. Considering that the rest is presumably lolsnipers, halberdiers, dracos and unpromoted bastards, I'd say Largo's handily doubling and ORKOing these punks. Due to not doubling however, Taur is only 2 rounding at best. Yeah he's got Resolve, but who cares? Largo's able to actually kill things without needing to get his ass whooped first. Then you gotta keep in mind that Largo reaches these enemies sooner, and that Largo crits far more often.

Tauroneo handles like sludge.

[-Cynthia-]

Hey...

If we're doing this "oh healing doesn't matter that much" card, then I want Elincia in bottom tier. nao. Or at the very least below guys who don't suck as much as her in combat [Ena and Lucia]

Oddly enough there have been calls to move Elincia up on the GFAQS tier list. I suppose in the scenario that we haven't been using any other healers (or they died), Elincia does Physicing as well as anyone else, and having a healer or two is useful, it's just than 4 healers aren't really better than just having 2. It's very debatable, as she's definitely worse than Ena/Lucia at fighting (she's worse than Bastian too, but not by as much). She has a Geoffrey support that's nice just because Geoffrey always has a slot open.

[grandjackal]

Oddly enough there have been calls to move Elincia up on the GFAQS tier list. I suppose in the scenario that we haven't been using any other healers (or they died), Elincia does Physicing as well as anyone else, and having a healer or two is useful, it's just than 4 healers aren't really better than just having 2. It's very debatable, as she's definitely worse than Ena/Lucia at fighting (she's worse than Bastian too, but not by as much). She has a Geoffrey support that's nice just because Geoffrey always has a slot open.

That support might as well not exist, 1 ATK is helping them do dick, especially Elincia.

[-Cynthia-]

That support might as well not exist, 1 ATK is helping them do dick, especially Elincia.

It's not very useful for Elincia, but it sort of is for Geoffrey(he can be bordeline ORKO on some things). It's better than Ena's options at any rate, and makes her comparable to Lucia/Bastian supportwise (they have more options, but less likely). When it's the bottom tiers, you take what you can get.

Although now that I think about it, our chances of not having 2 healers by this point is pretty low, and they're all outperforming Elincia in combat and it's not like Elincia is uber durable in comparison. Not to mention she only has 3 chapters, which is worse availability than anyone except Ena/Nasir.

Speaking of Nasir, he's probably a little high. Considering we had to beat the BK to get him, Ike isn't RNG screwed if Nasir is in play, and Ena/Nasir are pretty useless unless Ike is RNG screwed. This arguably means Ena>Nasir.

Edited July 11, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Colonel M]

EDIT: Nvm.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Colonel M

[Zkirsche]

Due to her underlevelledness, we can give her some bexp to help her. A level 6 Elincia with 5 levels of the fighter band has 20 Atk, 19 AS. More if we give her an energy drop/speed wing/more bexp. That's enougth to double 28/50 enemies. She ORKO's magic users and 2-3RKO's snipers/warriors/SM's. This isn't terribad. If you didn't use Mist you can save the sonic sword for her, she deals decent damage with that and isn't weighed down by it either.

However, I must admit her durability is pretty bad. 30 HP/12 Def is enougth for her to get 2RKO'ed by pretty much everything. However, her Res is pretty good and her avoid is decent (56 at level 6). Still, she does suck pretty massively defensively.

And whilst Healing utility might not be incredibly useful at this point, and certainly inferier to combat, it still has a use.

I can see her drop below Ena as Ena at least has her utility of being one of 2 to kill normal Ashnard, meaning she's quite useful if Ike is RNG screwed defensively.

Speaking of Nasir, he's probably a little high. Considering we had to beat the BK to get him, Ike isn't RNG screwed if Nasir is in play, and Ena/Nasir are pretty useless unless Ike is RNG screwed. This arguably means Ena>Nasir.

Nasir isn't useless, his stats with demi band are: 56 HP, 35 Atk, 24 AS, 65 Avo, 27 Def, 30 Res

He has incredible durability, he's basically gatrie except with good speed and avo. Mages practically tink him and melee enemies don't do much better. Tigers, for example, 8RKO him, and it takes 3 hits from a dragon to take him down.

Offensively he isn't a pushover either, as he doubles quite a bit with very good Atk.

Plus, being one of two units who can hurt Ashnard doesn't hurt him either, as we don't want to take out time killing Ashnard.

Though I do agree that Shinon > Nasir for sheer earlygame utility.

Edited July 11, 2009 by kirsche

[-Cynthia-]

Due to her underlevelledness, we can give her some bexp to help her. A level 6 Elincia with 5 levels of the fighter band has 20 Atk, 19 AS. More if we give her an energy drop/speed wing/more bexp. That's enougth to double 28/50 enemies. She ORKO's magic users and 2-3RKO's snipers/warriors/SM's. This isn't terribad. If you didn't use Mist you can save the sonic sword for her, she deals decent damage with that and isn't weighed down by it either.

However, I must admit her durability is pretty bad. 30 HP/12 Def is enougth for her to get 2RKO'ed by pretty much everything. However, her Res is pretty good and her avoid is decent (56 at level 6). Still, she does suck pretty massively defensively.

And whilst Healing utility might not be incredibly useful at this point, and certainly inferier to combat, it still has a use.

I can see her drop below Ena as Ena at least has her utility of being one of 2 to kill normal Ashnard, meaning she's quite useful if Ike is RNG screwed defensively.

Actually I forgot about the +3 Def/Res from Amiti, which makes her less horible defensively, though I can still see her below Ena.

Nasir isn't useless, his stats with demi band are: 56 HP, 35 Atk, 24 AS, 65 Avo, 27 Def, 30 Res

He has incredible durability, he's basically gatrie except with good speed and avo. Mages practically tink him and melee enemies don't do much better. Tigers, for example, 8RKO him, and it takes 3 hits from a dragon to take him down.

Offensively he isn't a pushover either, as he doubles quite a bit with very good Atk.

Um, the Atk is not "very good", not good enough to ORKO...just about anything at this point. I think I found one non-Sage/Bishop enemy he actually ORKOs(everything else is too fast for him to double or has too much Def). He just seems like baggage at this point in time, because everyone else should be really good.

Here's a fun fact: His Atk is tying that of a --/16 Lucia, except she doubles more and has crit. Yeah she's less durable, but she also has 2 more Mov and existent supports.

Plus, being one of two units who can hurt Ashnard doesn't hurt him either, as we don't want to take out time killing Ashnard.

Actually, Nasir just slows down the process. He doesn't damage Ashnard (Ashnard has 35 Def). Even if he would level up or not be Demi Banded, doing 1-2 damage isn't really worth taking away Ike's Enemy Phase. Basically here's Ashnard's list of priorities:

1. People who can't deal damage to him

2. People who do extraordinarily little damage to him (Ena/Nasir)

3. Ike/royals

Nasir's just really slowing down the process of Ashnard killing, assuming Ike can do it himself, a fair assumption as Ike killed the BK.

So here's my proposed reordering:

Shinon

Ena

Elincia

Nasir

Edited July 11, 2009 by -Cynthia-