FE9 Tier List

[Colonel M]

Wait... so why Ena > Nasir again?

[-Cynthia-]

Wait... so why Ena > Nasir again?

Because Ena can help Ike if he gets RNG screwed. Nasir can't really do this, since for him to be recruited Ike would have had to beat the BK, which means his stats should be good enough for Ashnard.

[Dat Nick]

Let's factor in that if Ike gets RNG blessed then both of them are pretty damn useless, Nasir slightly less so. If you're going to consider one side of the RNG variables, consider the other, especially when blessage happens more [bands and the like].

And the odds of Ike getting screwed that badly are hilariously low to begin with.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Norton Says What?

[-Cynthia-]

Let's factor in that if Ike gets RNG blessed then both of them are pretty damn useless, Nasir slightly less so. If you're going to consider one side of the RNG variables, consider the other, especially when blessage happens more [bands and the like].

And the odds of Ike getting screwed that badly are hilariously low to begin with.

Yes, but one is much more important than the other.

RNG screwed Ike Hi, I can't beat the game! Ena saves the game.

RNG blessed (or even average) Ike Can beat the game, Nasir is marginally less suck than Ena but still pretty useless.

I think the first scenario matters more. Yes RNG screwed Ike is unlikely, but if we just consider averages we should have moved Ena down anyway.

Edited July 11, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[dondon151]

RNG screwed Ike Hi, I can't beat the game! Ena saves the game.

Let's ignore the scenarios where Ike isn't RNG screwed but can't defeat the BK or got unlucky and lost against the BK. Then Ena is truly useless. It's not like this one extremely unlikely, almost impossible scenario can warrant Ena > Nasir.

[grandjackal]

So...Taur vs Largo is done with now?

If you aren't convinced Sirius, you can at least see that they compare, and that Largo should at least be in the same tier above Sothe.

[Colonel M]

On top of that Ike or Nasir make better use of Resolve than lolEna, which makes the prospect of a RNG-screwed Ike, if you will, somewhat easy to fix.

[Zkirsche]

Dunno why you said Elincia > Nasir, as Nasir has better durabiltiy and better offence.

Ena does worse against every enemy, she is just more useful in one ridiculously unlikely scenario. I fail to see how the fact that Nasir is at least somewhat usable if he is unlocked is worse than the fact that Ena isn't.

[dondon151]

So...Taur vs Largo is done with now?

If you aren't convinced Sirius, you can at least see that they compare, and that Largo should at least be in the same tier above Sothe.

Every time someone brings up Largo's durability problems you just go "well fuck that here's his offense:," so no, this is not done with now.

[grandjackal]

Every time someone brings up Largo's durability problems you just go "well fuck that here's his offense:," so no, this is not done with now.

Considering how that was the same reason Lethe lost to Stefan (of which the difference was of single digit damage output as opposed to Largo being able to ORKO things while Taur can't until he's halfway dead, which requires him to waste enemy phase with his shitty offense, on top of a huge crit lead and doubling)...

[Zkirsche]

Sothe/Tormod has worse durability yet are in the above tier. He's also got arguably better offence than both of them. Plus he has decent support options (Devdan/Muarim/Taur).

Why is Largo being in lower mid that hard to imagine?

[dondon151]

Sothe/Tormod has worse durability yet are in the above tier. He's also got arguably better offence than both of them. Plus he has decent support options (Devdan/Muarim/Taur).

Wow thanks for conveniently bringing up a unit that's never used for combat as a point for combat comparison

As for Tormod, that's his problem, not Largo's.

Why is Largo being in lower mid that hard to imagine?

I'm not arguing against Largo being in lower mid.

[-Cynthia-]

Dunno why you said Elincia > Nasir, as Nasir has better durabiltiy and better offence.

Ena does worse against every enemy, she is just more useful in one ridiculously unlikely scenario. I fail to see how the fact that Nasir is at least somewhat usable if he is unlocked is worse than the fact that Ena isn't.

Elincia has staff utility, which I wager is more important than Nasir's mediocre offense.

Mainly I just don't see too much difference between Nasir and Lucia. Lucia has better offense, since they have the same Atk, but Lucia has more doubling and crit. Nasir is more duable, but Lucia also has more Mov, supports, and no gauge to deal with.

And yeah, being more durable than Sothe doesn't help Largo any. Tormod's position is pretty questionable IMO.

Edited July 11, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Zkirsche]

I fail to see how decent durability and great offence is not lower mid material.

You say it's not decent, but all I saw was 3+RKO'ed.

Elincia has staff utility, which I wager is more important than Nasir's mediocre offense.

2RKO'ing is not mediocre. 4+RKOing IS mediocre.

Staff utility is less important than combat utility at this point.

Edited July 11, 2009 by kirsche

[-Cynthia-]

2RKO'ing is not mediocre. 4+RKOing IS mediocre.

Considering how much of the team can ORKO at this point, Nasir isn't doing so well, 4RKOing is just complete fail unless it's a dragon.

Staff utility is less important than combat utility at this point.

Perhaps, but then we should move Elincia below Lucia as well (and possibly Bastian).

[dondon151]

You say it's not decent, but all I saw was 3+RKO'ed.

This is not decent when other player units sport much greater durability. To put 3+RKO'd into perspective, this is roughly what Ike goes through in earlygame (where people generally bash his durability) and is only slightly better than what Mia faces in earlygame.

[-Cynthia-]

This is not decent when other player units sport much greater durability. To put 3+RKO'd into perspective, this is roughly what Ike goes through in earlygame (where people generally bash his durability) and is only slightly better than what Mia faces in earlygame.

Also, Largo's facing pretty high hit rates, considering his unremarkable Avo and...iffy support options. 3RKOd at 30% true is one thing, 3RKOd at 50+ is another.

[Zkirsche]

That's not bad enougth to be low tier though. Besides, his offence and decent support options far outweigh that.

Edited July 11, 2009 by kirsche

[Tino]

That's not bad enougth to be low tier though. Besides, his offence and decent support options far outweigh that.

Actually, they're coherent. If Largo ORKOes his opponent, he leaves himself wide open to another attack.

In other words, considering his durability, his great offense actually backfires.

[Zkirsche]

That's only if you give him that many enemies per turn for that to work.

[-Cynthia-]

That's only if you give him that many enemies per turn for that to work.

How do we give characters enemies? I mean I guess we can restrict enemies being able to attack Largo by walling him off, but that means we're both hurting efficiency and Largo can't use his offense. Largo's low defenses make him a priority target especially vs mages, he pretty much has to be holding on to a hand axe to hope not to be targeted by everything.

Edited July 11, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Tino]

That's only if you give him that many enemies per turn for that to work.

Your point?

If we would go by your logic (you need to put the PC in range of as much enemies as required for the PC to be killed), we might as well neglect durability for nearly all PCs and only care about offense, since your PCs generally have enough durability to survive a player phase and an enemy phase.

Plus, as Cynthia said, you can't assign a certain amount of enemies per turn to a PC.

[grandjackal]

Your point?

If we would go by your logic (you need to put the PC in range of as much enemies as required for the PC to be killed), we might as well neglect durability for nearly all PCs and only care about offense, since your PCs generally have enough durability to survive a player phase and an enemy phase.

Plus, as Cynthia said, you can't assign a certain amount of enemies per turn to a PC.

I fail to see how this is a problem, considering even Largo, someone deemed to have bad durability, has plenty enough to function. He's not getting 2RKOd by everything on the map, he's not getting one rounded, he's perfectly fine as is.

[Tino]

I fail to see how this is a problem, considering even Largo, someone deemed to have bad durability, has plenty enough to function. He's not getting 2RKOd by everything on the map, he's not getting one rounded, he's perfectly fine as is.

What? What? Whaaaaat?

Sorry, but getting 3HKOed at >50% hit rates is not a good thing. Attacking one enemy on the player phase and getting attacked twice on the enemy phase equals a 12.9% chance to die in 3 hits with 50% displayed hit. Sorry, but that's terrible (now consider the possibility of him facing even higher hit rates for a 32% chance of death for example (with 60% displayed hit)). And if he doesn't face three enemies in one turn, he probably will in two turns, or three turns.

The point being, he can't utilize his offense much since he dies so quickly; offense means balls when you can't survive, and Largo has large trouble doing so.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Tino

[Mekkah]

Consider that Largo is being pitted against durability gods when he joins (your team is at its strongest support- and levels-wise), he doesn't have to get ORKOed or anything to have relatively bad durability. Just because he isn't getting owned as badly as FE6 Yodel doesn't give him the right to bypass relativeness to the team.