Suckiest character in FE10

[Fayt Zelpher]

Fio has more ulitity and even though she'll have trouble hitting she can use javelins.

She has trouble hitting... and you're going to give her a javelin and its pathetic 65 hit? Most enemies in 1-7 have ~35 AVO and 1-E enemies have ~55 AVO because of Jarod's authority starts. She's not getting BExp in an efficient playthrough, but if you insist, she can start at level 11 with 2 levels of BExp. She's got 9 skill and 8 luck, so 9*2 + 8 = 26 + 65 = 91 hit. Of course, she's losing 4 hit automatically because she's getting weighed down, so 87 hit. In other words, she's got 50 hit (incidentally also 50 true) with a javelin in 1-7, though she can through javelins down ledges. Give her 3 more levels from 1-7 to make her level 14 for 1-E. Now she's got 10 skill and 10 luck, and getting weighed down by 1, so 28 + 65 = 93 hit. Now she's facing 40 displayed (32.4 true) with a javelin.

And before dealing with the possibility of forging, remember that Aran can also use javelins, and has higher skill and level. He'll easily be 18/1 on HM, which is 21 skill and 11 luck, or 53 + 65 = 118 hit. He's going to get forges well before Fiona will, and you don't have an infinite supply of money in this game. At Max hit and a +10 hit card, he's got 153 hit, or ~96 displayed (99.72 true). He's not biorhythm proof, but he's doing worlds better than Fiona is with javelins. And he can climb all the ledges in 1-E and 3-13.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Randomly Predictable

[Naglfar]

C) This is a better point, but don't forget that Lyre's gauge holds her back until Endgame, laguz level slower than beorc, and Sol kills just as well as Rend and even heals.

Actually, even though Fiona > Lyre, Rend >> Sol in this case. 40% activation vs. (skill/2)%, so even at max Fiona has just 17%. Also, since Rend multiplies str by 5 it allows Lyre to kill even dragons rather easily, but Fiona might not even 4HKO dragons so she'd need to somehow activate Sol twice (or crit the thing). Even if she is 4HKOing dragons, she's still taking a counter even if she manages to activate on the first attack (Lyre OHKOs with Rend). At least if she activates Sol on the second hit then she'll heal back the damage from the first.

I was about to fall in line and concede that until I realized that dragons only account for the enemies in one chapter. Against almost anything else, Sol will suffice as a OHKO.

It's true, Fiona's Sol activation rate will be 17% at most, while Lyre's Rend activation rate goes up to 40% or something. Still, on the subject of dragons, neither are doing very much if their skills don't activate. I think Fiona's 3RKOing and Lyre's 4RKOing, assuming the dragon is an uncovered red or a covered white. Against covered reds... Fiona's 7RKOing while Lyre is maybe 12RKOing or something. Twelve. And that's if her strength is good, though I guess if you're using her she'd have gotten an energy drop. Thank god for masteries, right?

Oh, Lyre can't OHKO a red on a cover tile even with Rend. Ha!

Edited January 7, 2010 by Naglfar

[Anouleth]

Is noone going to address my claim of Oliver being the worst character?

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

Is noone going to address my claim of Oliver being the worst character?

What.

Oliver has staff utility, which makes him somewhat useful. Unlike Fiona, Lyre, Meg, and Astrid, who have almost nothing good going for them.

[Rewjeo]

Fio has more ulitity and even though she'll have trouble hitting she can use javelins.

She has trouble hitting... and you're going to give her a javelin and its pathetic 65 hit? Most enemies in 1-7 have ~35 AVO and 1-E enemies have ~55 AVO because of Jarod's authority starts. She's not getting BExp in an efficient playthrough, but if you insist, she can start at level 11 with 2 levels of BExp. She's got 9 skill and 8 luck, so 9*2 + 8 = 26 + 65 = 91 hit. Of course, she's losing 4 hit automatically because she's getting weighed down, so 87 hit. In other words, she's got 50 hit (incidentally also 50 true) with a javelin in 1-7, though she can through javelins down ledges. Give her 3 more levels from 1-7 to make her level 14 for 1-E. Now she's got 10 skill and 10 luck, and getting weighed down by 1, so 28 + 65 = 93 hit. Now she's facing 40 displayed (32.4 true) with a javelin.

And before dealing with the possibility of forging, remember that Aran can also use javelins, and has higher skill and level. He'll easily be 18/1 on HM, which is 21 skill and 11 luck, or 53 + 65 = 118 hit. He's going to get forges well before Fiona will, and you don't have an infinite supply of money in this game. At Max hit and a +10 hit card, he's got 153 hit, or ~96 displayed (99.72 true). He's not biorhythm proof, but he's doing worlds better than Fiona is with javelins. And he can climb all the ledges in 1-E and 3-13.

Wait, Aran's 18/1 and Fiona's 14/0 in part 4? Because that's the only time you can forge javelins.

[Narga_Rocks]

Oh, Lyre can't OHKO a red on a cover tile even with Rend. Ha!

With what str value? The toughest Reds have like 77hp and 38 def (HM). She only needs 115 mt to OHKO them. If they are on cover, 125. Even giving her S strike (13mt) she needs to hit just 112/5 str. 22.4. Since she can't have 23 str (even with wildheart actually. 15 str = 22 and 16 str = 24) she'll need 24 str. That's just 12 str. She can eventually get there, especially if you put a drop on her. Without a drop she needs level 31 or 32, more likely 32 if you gave her a bexp level back in 3-4 to make her actually double stuff. With a drop she only needs like level 26 to have the str to OHKO the things. In fact, if you give her SS strike (18mt) that drops 125 down to 107, so 107/5 = 21.4 and so all she needs is 11 str since 11 x 2 x 5 = 110 and SS strike takes care of the rest. With no drop and assuming one level gave +0% str, she'll still hit 11 str before she hits level 30, so if she actually has Rend, guess what? She still OHKOs the thing, even on a cover tile. Rend is that disgusting.

Also, stick them on a cover and it's much easier to get the 0 damage -> OHKO thing happening (I say this for the fun factor). With effectively 48 def (or 46 def for the weaker ones) she'd need at least 47 mt to do any damage. 14 str and SS strike is 46 mt and she does 0 damage. 14 str is level 37 on average, so she'd need more str just to do damage to the weaker Reds on cover.

Oh, and let's go with level 32 Lyre with 12 str and SS strike. 24 + 18 = 42mt. She does like 4 damage to the best dragons not on cover. 8 after doubling. Technically, she 10 rounds at this point, since 9 rounds is only 72 damage. But let's analyze the chance of her not using Rend after 19 attacks (20th attack KOs the dragon regardless). Actually, 12 attacks, so her chances of not 6 rounding. 0.2176782336%. Basically 1 in ~459. After 4 attacks (2 rounds) 12.96%. 1 in ~7.7. She's not really all that likely to need more than 2 rounds anyway.

Basically, if Astrid is 3RKOing instead of 2RKOing, Lyre is far more likely to 2RKO or better than Astrid is, regardless of how long it actually takes Lyre to KO the thing without Rend. Especially if you stick the thing on a cover tile. Give Astrid max str and she has 33 + 3 + 22 = 58 mt with double bow. That's 10 damage on the covered one. 4RKO. But if she Sols it is still a 2RKO. She'd have to Sol twice in the first round to ORKO. But she won't have max str anyway, at least on HM (but I'm talking about HM hp/def values anyway) so she'll have trouble there.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Fio has more ulitity and even though she'll have trouble hitting she can use javelins.

She has trouble hitting... and you're going to give her a javelin and its pathetic 65 hit? Most enemies in 1-7 have ~35 AVO and 1-E enemies have ~55 AVO because of Jarod's authority starts. She's not getting BExp in an efficient playthrough, but if you insist, she can start at level 11 with 2 levels of BExp. She's got 9 skill and 8 luck, so 9*2 + 8 = 26 + 65 = 91 hit. Of course, she's losing 4 hit automatically because she's getting weighed down, so 87 hit. In other words, she's got 50 hit (incidentally also 50 true) with a javelin in 1-7, though she can through javelins down ledges. Give her 3 more levels from 1-7 to make her level 14 for 1-E. Now she's got 10 skill and 10 luck, and getting weighed down by 1, so 28 + 65 = 93 hit. Now she's facing 40 displayed (32.4 true) with a javelin.

And before dealing with the possibility of forging, remember that Aran can also use javelins, and has higher skill and level. He'll easily be 18/1 on HM, which is 21 skill and 11 luck, or 53 + 65 = 118 hit. He's going to get forges well before Fiona will, and you don't have an infinite supply of money in this game. At Max hit and a +10 hit card, he's got 153 hit, or ~96 displayed (99.72 true). He's not biorhythm proof, but he's doing worlds better than Fiona is with javelins. And he can climb all the ledges in 1-E and 3-13.

Wait, Aran's 18/1 and Fiona's 14/0 in part 4? Because that's the only time you can forge javelins.

I wasn't sure. I though they were forgeable by 1-E. Sorry for that. However, the part before discussing forges is still valid.

[RNG Princess]

Is noone going to address my claim of Oliver being the worst character?

What.

Oliver has staff utility, which makes him somewhat useful. Unlike Fiona, Lyre, Meg, and Astrid, who have almost nothing good going for them.

well there is already a bunch of other healers :). If I kill Oliver someone in my team is gaining exp.

The only reason I get him is to give his tome to Micaiah.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Is noone going to address my claim of Oliver being the worst character?

What.

Oliver has staff utility, which makes him somewhat useful. Unlike Fiona, Lyre, Meg, and Astrid, who have almost nothing good going for them.

well there is already a bunch of other healers :). If I kill Oliver someone in my team is gaining exp.

The only reason I get him is to give his tome to Micaiah.

Heather is going with Ike because of all the other treasure in this level. She can always wait for Oliver to switch to his silence staff and then steal the tome. He's only got 20 speed, so that's not an issue either.

[Florete]

Is noone going to address my claim of Oliver being the worst character?

I don't know about everyone else, but I left it because he's bad enough that thinking that isn't too far off.

[Redthir Jerdisheim]

Oliver!

As a level 8 Saint, he really isn't going to get a whole lot better. He gets doubled by everything in 4-4, and due to his high level, he can't really get a lot better. Not to mention that he has a suckish class as well.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Oliver!

As a level 8 Saint, he really isn't going to get a whole lot better. He gets doubled by everything in 4-4, and due to his high level, he can't really get a lot better. Not to mention that he has a suckish class as well.

Yes, but he also has healing utility and staffs, which give him an unlimited EXP pool to draw from. I'm not saying he's good (he's not), but that is enough to make him not the worst character.

[NinjaMonkey]

I don't care if you hate Sothe. Calling him the worst character in the game is pure retardation. There are some things that simply can't be true.

I stated an opinion, not a fact (I suggest you learn the difference between those two). :P

Nasir is pretty far from the worst as well.

Again, this is an opinion. :D

Edited January 8, 2010 by NinjaMonkey

[Florete]

I don't care if you hate Sothe. Calling him the worst character in the game is pure retardation. There are some things that simply can't be true.

I stated an opinion, not a fact (I suggest you learn the difference between those two). :P

Nasir is pretty far from the worst as well.

Again, this is an opinion. :D

Opinions can only go so far.

[Narga_Rocks]

I don't care if you hate Sothe. Calling him the worst character in the game is pure retardation. There are some things that simply can't be true.

I stated an opinion, not a fact (I suggest you learn the difference between those two). :P

Nasir is pretty far from the worst as well.

Again, this is an opinion. :D

You mean this:

Although I've already stated that Nasir was my suckiest unit, after doing a few more playthroughs I realise that I should have put down Sothe instead. Granted he starts off OK, but towards the end of part 1, his usefullness starts declining somewhat. By the end of part 3, he's complete garbage and there's practically no point in training him up as high as possible before he premotes at the end of 4-P. As for endgame, he is comparable to Ena (who I think also sucks) in terms of usefulness - the only reason I bother putting him in is to give Micaiah her meagre support bonuses.

So yeah, I'm going to revise my choice and say Sothe.

Um, how could Sothe be the suckiest when you admit he starts off ok? Have you never tried Lyre, Fiona, Meg?

Now, you can say "was my", like you did at the top, and that means that of the characters you used Sothe was the worst. I'd still have to doubt that you are looking at the game overall, though, considering they force you to deploy Sanaki and I can't imagine you think that her part 4 contributions > Sothe was in part 1. Whether or not you use him fully, you should still be able to recognize that in part 1 he's >> she is in part 4.

Frankly, I think you are just anti Sothe, like so many other people are. Also, about Nasir, I still don't see how you could think Fiona/Lyre > him, even if you are playing EM and get the EM bonuses. Any unit with less than a 34 spd cap would still have <39 spd with the EM bonuses, so Nasir is still needed to let them double auras.

I don't care if you hate Sothe. Calling him the worst character in the game is pure retardation. There are some things that simply can't be true.

I stated an opinion, not a fact (I suggest you learn the difference between those two). :P

Nasir is pretty far from the worst as well.

Again, this is an opinion. :D

Opinions can only go so far.

Basically, "opinions can only go so far" is apt. If you have an "opinion" that if you jump off the Grand Canyon you will be able to fly a couple of miles to the other side, you are wrong. You can't just say "It's my opinion". There are some things that can be analyzed empirically. "Suckiest" character is one of them. Maybe not between Lyre and Fiona. That can be a matter of what your objective is in the whole thing. But in terms of most characters in competition with units like Lyre and Fiona, it can be pretty easy to see that Lyre/Fiona is worse than just about any other character in the game.

Opinions can only go so far.

[NinjaMonkey]

Now, you can say "was my", like you did at the top, and that means that of the characters you used Sothe was the worst. I'd still have to doubt that you are looking at the game overall, though, considering they force you to deploy Sanaki and I can't imagine you think that her part 4 contributions > Sothe was in part 1. Whether or not you use him fully, you should still be able to recognize that in part 1 he's >> she is in part 4.

Amazingly, Sanaki keeps on getting the MVP award for 4-3 and finishes it at least level 14... All Sothe does in Part one is open a couple of chests, pick-up one or two hidden items and act as a meatshield in 1-6(2), so that Micaiah can Thani Bomb a couple of Knights without getting killed herself. The only chapter that I really need to use Sothe is 1-4, but I'm sure that there is a way around that.

Frankly, I think you are just anti Sothe, like so many other people are. Also, about Nasir, I still don't see how you could think Fiona/Lyre > him, even if you are playing EM and get the EM bonuses. Any unit with less than a 34 spd cap would still have <39 spd with the EM bonuses, so Nasir is still needed to let them double auras.

So it takes me 4 turns to kill all of the auras...Big deal. On Easy, Ashera won't attack until about turn 3, and all I have to do is get Lehran to use the Ashera staff to heal off all of the damage. Besides, Fiona/Meg being vastly underlevelled isn't that much of a problem and can be easily solved using the same method that I use to train Vika up.

Edited January 8, 2010 by NinjaMonkey

[Narga_Rocks]

Opinions can only go so far.

Well let's see: I've done 4 playthroughs and Sothe has managed to suck consistantly on all 4 of them. Now as my opinion is based off of my experience, yeah I'm going to have to go with Sothe, I'm afraid.

You can't call him the suckiest character without using everyone else. You can say he was "yours", though I'd still have to suggest that even in EM you'll find Ena and Sanaki's part 4 contributions to be worse than his part 1 contributions. Have you considered giving him the proper weapons in part 1? This means iron knife forge as soon as you are able and letting him use beastkiller against laguz in 1-4 and 3-6? If you are finding Sothe to be your worst character based off of your experience, that says a lot about how bad good you are at this game.

[Anouleth]

Oliver!

As a level 8 Saint, he really isn't going to get a whole lot better. He gets doubled by everything in 4-4, and due to his high level, he can't really get a lot better. Not to mention that he has a suckish class as well.

Yes, but he also has healing utility and staffs, which give him an unlimited EXP pool to draw from. I'm not saying he's good (he's not), but that is enough to make him not the worst character.

Unlimited EXP doesn't mean much when the EXP does absolutely nothing. Neither does healing utility. As I said before, even if you ditch every single character from Part 1, 2 and 3 (for RNG-screwage or deaths or whatever) and only use characters that join in 3rd tier in Part 4, you have Cain, Stefan, Bastian, Giffca, Nailah, Tibarn, Naesala, Volke, Renning, Skrimir and Elincia to take your 10 Endgame slots, all of whom are better than him at base stats. So there's absolutely no scenario under which bringing him to Endgame is worthwhile, since you already have 3 healers that are all going to be better then him, for free. Hell, you could crown Pelleas right off the bat, and he'd be better as well for Endgame, even counting the cost of a crown! So all Oliver has going for him is 4-4 utility, which is also non-existent because as soon as he moves off the seize point to get recruited, you can win straight away.

[Narga_Rocks]

Oliver!

As a level 8 Saint, he really isn't going to get a whole lot better. He gets doubled by everything in 4-4, and due to his high level, he can't really get a lot better. Not to mention that he has a suckish class as well.

Yes, but he also has healing utility and staffs, which give him an unlimited EXP pool to draw from. I'm not saying he's good (he's not), but that is enough to make him not the worst character.

Unlimited EXP doesn't mean much when the EXP does absolutely nothing. Neither does healing utility. As I said before, even if you ditch every single character from Part 1, 2 and 3 (for RNG-screwage or deaths or whatever) and only use characters that join in 3rd tier in Part 4, you have Cain, Stefan, Bastian, Giffca, Nailah, Tibarn, Naesala, Volke, Renning, Skrimir and Elincia to take your 10 Endgame slots, all of whom are better than him at base stats. So there's absolutely no scenario under which bringing him to Endgame is worthwhile, since you already have 3 healers that are all going to be better then him, for free. Hell, you could crown Pelleas right off the bat, and he'd be better as well for Endgame, even counting the cost of a crown! So all Oliver has going for him is 4-4 utility, which is also non-existent because as soon as he moves off the seize point to get recruited, you can win straight away.

but Lyre has no free chapters and Oliver is a lot more comparable to your healers than Lyre is to your fighters.

[Naglfar]

I don't care if you hate Sothe. Calling him the worst character in the game is pure retardation. There are some things that simply can't be true.

I stated an opinion, not a fact (I suggest you learn the difference between those two). :P

Nasir is pretty far from the worst as well.

Again, this is an opinion. :D

Your opinion is wrong.

I hate when people attempt to prove something logically (especially when it's obviously not true), get their arguments shot to pieces, and then pull out the "opinion" ploy, thinking it saves them from being wrong.

I've deduced that in this world, there is only fact and things that cannot be proven. Opinion is a fancy word for guesswork. If your opinion goes against proven fact, it is wrong. And since this is a Fire Emblem forum, the sooner you accept that being wrong is a part of theoretical discussion here (unless you're Fox), the better off you'll be.

[Naglfar]

Oh, Lyre can't OHKO a red on a cover tile even with Rend. Ha!

With what str value? The toughest Reds have like 77hp and 38 def (HM). She only needs 115 mt to OHKO them. If they are on cover, 125. Even giving her S strike (13mt) she needs to hit just 112/5 str. 22.4. Since she can't have 23 str (even with wildheart actually. 15 str = 22 and 16 str = 24) she'll need 24 str. That's just 12 str. She can eventually get there, especially if you put a drop on her. Without a drop she needs level 31 or 32, more likely 32 if you gave her a bexp level back in 3-4 to make her actually double stuff. With a drop she only needs like level 26 to have the str to OHKO the things. In fact, if you give her SS strike (18mt) that drops 125 down to 107, so 107/5 = 21.4 and so all she needs is 11 str since 11 x 2 x 5 = 110 and SS strike takes care of the rest. With no drop and assuming one level gave +0% str, she'll still hit 11 str before she hits level 30, so if she actually has Rend, guess what? She still OHKOs the thing, even on a cover tile. Rend is that disgusting.

Also, stick them on a cover and it's much easier to get the 0 damage -> OHKO thing happening (I say this for the fun factor). With effectively 48 def (or 46 def for the weaker ones) she'd need at least 47 mt to do any damage. 14 str and SS strike is 46 mt and she does 0 damage. 14 str is level 37 on average, so she'd need more str just to do damage to the weaker Reds on cover.

Oh, and let's go with level 32 Lyre with 12 str and SS strike. 24 + 18 = 42mt. She does like 4 damage to the best dragons not on cover. 8 after doubling. Technically, she 10 rounds at this point, since 9 rounds is only 72 damage. But let's analyze the chance of her not using Rend after 19 attacks (20th attack KOs the dragon regardless). Actually, 12 attacks, so her chances of not 6 rounding. 0.2176782336%. Basically 1 in ~459. After 4 attacks (2 rounds) 12.96%. 1 in ~7.7. She's not really all that likely to need more than 2 rounds anyway.

Basically, if Astrid is 3RKOing instead of 2RKOing, Lyre is far more likely to 2RKO or better than Astrid is, regardless of how long it actually takes Lyre to KO the thing without Rend. Especially if you stick the thing on a cover tile. Give Astrid max str and she has 33 + 3 + 22 = 58 mt with double bow. That's 10 damage on the covered one. 4RKO. But if she Sols it is still a 2RKO. She'd have to Sol twice in the first round to ORKO. But she won't have max str anyway, at least on HM (but I'm talking about HM hp/def values anyway) so she'll have trouble there.

Bleh. Nevermind. I screwed up royally on the calculation... I used the untransformed strength value. Sorry.

[Mousefire]

My suckioest character was Kyza. I did an almost all laguz playthrough, and Kyza was too suckish to use. Lyre wasn't by the way

[Anouleth]

Oliver!

As a level 8 Saint, he really isn't going to get a whole lot better. He gets doubled by everything in 4-4, and due to his high level, he can't really get a lot better. Not to mention that he has a suckish class as well.

Yes, but he also has healing utility and staffs, which give him an unlimited EXP pool to draw from. I'm not saying he's good (he's not), but that is enough to make him not the worst character.

Unlimited EXP doesn't mean much when the EXP does absolutely nothing. Neither does healing utility. As I said before, even if you ditch every single character from Part 1, 2 and 3 (for RNG-screwage or deaths or whatever) and only use characters that join in 3rd tier in Part 4, you have Cain, Stefan, Bastian, Giffca, Nailah, Tibarn, Naesala, Volke, Renning, Skrimir and Elincia to take your 10 Endgame slots, all of whom are better than him at base stats. So there's absolutely no scenario under which bringing him to Endgame is worthwhile, since you already have 3 healers that are all going to be better then him, for free. Hell, you could crown Pelleas right off the bat, and he'd be better as well for Endgame, even counting the cost of a crown! So all Oliver has going for him is 4-4 utility, which is also non-existent because as soon as he moves off the seize point to get recruited, you can win straight away.

but Lyre has no free chapters and Oliver is a lot more comparable to your healers than Lyre is to your fighters.

Lyre's chapters have enough deployment slots that you can deploy her. If you're not training Soren or Rolf, they're obviously liabilities to have on the battlefield, so you can ditch them. And it doesn't matter if Oliver is comparable to your other healers, he's still worse than them, so taking him instead of Bastian/Elincia is always a negative, since the cost of bringing him is greater than the benefit he gives. So Oliver is only ever a negative, while Lyre can potentially be a positive.

[Narga_Rocks]

Oliver!

As a level 8 Saint, he really isn't going to get a whole lot better. He gets doubled by everything in 4-4, and due to his high level, he can't really get a lot better. Not to mention that he has a suckish class as well.

Yes, but he also has healing utility and staffs, which give him an unlimited EXP pool to draw from. I'm not saying he's good (he's not), but that is enough to make him not the worst character.

Unlimited EXP doesn't mean much when the EXP does absolutely nothing. Neither does healing utility. As I said before, even if you ditch every single character from Part 1, 2 and 3 (for RNG-screwage or deaths or whatever) and only use characters that join in 3rd tier in Part 4, you have Cain, Stefan, Bastian, Giffca, Nailah, Tibarn, Naesala, Volke, Renning, Skrimir and Elincia to take your 10 Endgame slots, all of whom are better than him at base stats. So there's absolutely no scenario under which bringing him to Endgame is worthwhile, since you already have 3 healers that are all going to be better then him, for free. Hell, you could crown Pelleas right off the bat, and he'd be better as well for Endgame, even counting the cost of a crown! So all Oliver has going for him is 4-4 utility, which is also non-existent because as soon as he moves off the seize point to get recruited, you can win straight away.

but Lyre has no free chapters and Oliver is a lot more comparable to your healers than Lyre is to your fighters.

Lyre's chapters have enough deployment slots that you can deploy her. If you're not training Soren or Rolf, they're obviously liabilities to have on the battlefield, so you can ditch them. And it doesn't matter if Oliver is comparable to your other healers, he's still worse than them, so taking him instead of Bastian/Elincia is always a negative, since the cost of bringing him is greater than the benefit he gives. So Oliver is only ever a negative, while Lyre can potentially be a positive.

I'm not certain that Lyre is ever a positive. Though it is true that I see absolutely no reason to ever bring Oliver to endgame. Of course, I also see no reason to bring Pelleas, but whatever.

[Florete]

Opinions can only go so far.

Well let's see: I've done 4 playthroughs and Sothe has managed to suck consistantly on all 4 of them. Now as my opinion is based off of my experience, yeah I'm going to have to go with Sothe, I'm afraid.

All game? Like, he sucks throughout parts 1, 3, and 4? Because him sucking in part 1 is pretty much impossible. That alone is enough to put him far from the worst overall.

Or, as Naglfar said, your "opinion" is wrong. Simply pulling out the opinion card cannot save you all the time. As he said, there are some things that can be proven to be true, and this just happens to be one of them.

Now, as I said before in response to someone choosing Oliver as the worst, if your "worst," or the one you truly believe to be the worst is a pretty bad character in general, that would be somewhat acceptable, even if it were someone like Edward or Leonardo who definitely isn't the worst but is generally fairly bad. This is because the topic does technically ask for your worst character, and since everyone plays differently, the units at the very bottom of the tier list may not really be the "worst" for everyone. But a character like Sothe, with his abilities and position, is safe from ever being anyone's "worst" unless you just have some twisted form of logic.

For example, with the way I play, my personal worst would be either Oliver or Lyre pretty much for sucking for so long and being hard/impossible to make good. I can make units like Astrid and Fiona, possibly even Meg, good enough to use without too much cost. But that's just me.

So Oliver is only ever a negative, while Lyre can potentially be a positive.

No, Lyre can't be positive. It doesn't matter that Soren/Rolf/etc. might not be the best, they are better when deployed than Lyre, possibly even untrained (though I haven't checked that). Everyone is. Since there are more units than deployment slots and she's the worst of the units to choose from, deploying her is auto-negative.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire