Your opinion on the best mage?

[Kinata]

Let's assume Soren promotes at the end of part 3. First, compare Micaiah in part 1 to Soren in part 3. Neither will use staves, so let's look at their combat. They both have very high magic, but since wind magic is better, Micaiah will only be doing higher damage when against generals and paladins. Neither does much doubling. They're both fragile, but protecting Soren isn't as hard since he is part of a better team. Some people have been saying she is needed on her team because it is so weak, but, like I said before, Edward and Nolan can hold their own until you get strong characters like Sothe, Zihark, Jill, and Volug. In fact, if you use Micaiah, you will have to worry about protecting her, which is a pain when her team is so weak and small. Micaiah doesn't have much of a role in part 3, so let's go to part 4. Micaiah no longer OHKO's enemies with Thani, and it's not like she's going to double generals. Soren has a better, if only slightly, chance of ORKOing generals thanks to his higher speed. Soren is more powerful against other enemies too because of his wind magic and higher level. He is also still more durable because of Flare. Plus his free Adept activates frequently enough as an Archsage, while Sacrifice is almost as bad as it is good. Finally, the only area Micaiah beats Soren in is her higher ranking in staves. But Soren is very good with a Heal and you do get plenty of Arms Scrolls.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Tough to say for sure. since I'll admit that I've never played HM (I really don't like the idea of replaying maps dozens of times so that no characters die - I'm a bit obsessive on that front and not the greatest FE player) and find NM to be plenty hard as it is - so I don't know if my vote should compare directly to everyone else's. Nonetheless, some magic users are better than others:

Micaiah - healing, Sacrifice (ab)use, forced in all maps where her army fights

Ilyana - most availability of any character, though thunder magic = hyper-nerf in this game compared with PoR

Soren - easily the best magic user considering only Part 3 usefulness, fast and strong

Sanaki - SS fire + Rexflame = 35 speed max (I'll assume a small amount of save abuse on NM) and can double auras w/ Nasir: she's forced in 4-E so she's not taking a spot (just Exp, which, admittedly, would be hard to come by on NM and HM) and more Mag than other

Lehran - undisputed strongest mage - would easily win if this was "who would be the strongest magic user at caps" but I will assume that this is about overall usefulness throughout game.

Everyone else is...mediocre and warrants no consideration

So really, in terms of every mage in the game judged on overall usefulness, it's along the lines of

Mickey/Soren >= Ilyana >> Sanaki/Lehran > Rhys (healing matters, and he can heal the GM's in part 3 before tier 3 promotion) > Everyone Else >>> Tormod (3 chapters of use, then utterly pathetic in 4-4)

However, Mickey is the winner here because of how hard part 1 is. I assume she gets at least 1 of the DB's robes - 1-4 (Laguz level treasure) or 1-8 (with Rafiel) and can gain Exp from sacrifice spamming and Thanibombing to get to 20 by 1-E, and she has plenty of time to staff abuse in part 3 and 4 (she's slow without BExp abuse, but she won't be battling after part 3 except maybe generals in 4-3 (magic users unaffected by sand) and 4-E-1) Besides, she's not taking a spot, whereas every other character has to compete with someone else (except Sanaki, but good Part 1 + Average Part 3 + lackluster Part 4 > subpar Part 4), so Micaiah wins, in my opinion.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Randomly Predictable?

[Deliriyum]

Tough to say for sure. since I'll admit that I've never played HM (I really don't like the idea of replaying maps dozens of times so that no characters die - I'm a bit obsessive on that front and not the greatest FE player) and find NM to be plenty hard as it is - so I don't know if my vote should compare directly to everyone else's. Nonetheless, some magic users are better than others:

Micaiah - healing, Sacrifice (ab)use, forced in all maps where her army fights

Ilyana - most availability of any character, though thunder magic = hyper-nerf in this game compared with PoR

Soren - easily the best magic user considering only Part 3 usefulness, fast and strong

Sanaki - SS fire + Rexflame = 35 speed max (I'll assume a small amount of save abuse on NM) and can double auras w/ Nasir: she's forced in 4-E so she's not taking a spot (just Exp, which, admittedly, would be hard to come by on NM and HM) and more Mag than other

Lehran - undisputed strongest mage - would easily win if this was "who would be the strongest magic user at caps" but I will assume that this is about overall usefulness throughout game.

Everyone else is...mediocre and warrants no consideration

So really, in terms of every mage in the game judged on overall usefulness, it's along the lines of

Mickey/Soren >= Ilyana >> Sanaki/Lehran > Rhys (healing matters, and he can heal the GM's in part 3 before tier 3 promotion) > Everyone Else >>> Tormod (3 chapters of use, then utterly pathetic in 4-4)

However, Mickey is the winner here because of how hard part 1 is. I assume she gets at least 1 of the DB's robes - 1-4 (Laguz level treasure) or 1-8 (with Rafiel) and can gain Exp from sacrifice spamming and Thanibombing to get to 20 by 1-E, and she has plenty of time to staff abuse in part 3 and 4 (she's slow without BExp abuse, but she won't be battling after part 3 except maybe generals in 4-3 (magic users unaffected by sand) and 4-E-1) Besides, she's not taking a spot, whereas every other character has to compete with someone else (except Sanaki, but good Part 1 + Average Part 3 + lackluster Part 4 > subpar Part 4), so Micaiah wins, in my opinion.

I am with you here, as I haven't ever gotten around to HM. I play too efficiently and I like how I can be very efficient on EM and NM.

Jeez, not even an honerable mention to Calil? She ties for second best mage speed growth, Pelleas with first, tied with Tormod. Her skill is also up there, tied with several units. She can easily catch up to your other units if for some reason you have crap units and want to raise her. I will admit, that the downfall to using her is that she needs BEXP in 3-11. As for 4-5, I normally take my hawks out and then have Calil and Volke and anyone else I brought make their way to the middle island, so Calil can get some levels here due to fire's effectiveness.

[Florete]

Let's assume Soren promotes at the end of part 3. First, compare Micaiah in part 1 to Soren in part 3. Neither will use staves, so let's look at their combat.

....

wut

You can't be serious. That bolded part practically discredits your entire post. But of course, you're only talking about Easy mode aren't you? Honestly, EM is much too easy for me to care how these units do. At the very least step it up to NM.

They both have very high magic, but since wind magic is better, Micaiah will only be doing higher damage when against generals and paladins.

Generalizations ftw? Thani has 8 MT, which Soren can't get out of a Wind Tome until Arcwind (and can't beat until Tornado, both of which are much more limited than Micaiah's 90 shots of Thani). Then Micaiah's 2nd tier Mag cap is 30, which Soren doesn't hit until a few levels into promotion.

They're both fragile, but protecting Soren isn't as hard since he is part of a better team.

Untrue. Even if it were, saying he's part of a better team is actually hurting his case because then his abilities would be less valuable. But anyway, 4-1 is a three-front-war in FoW with PKs. Not ideal for protecting. 4-P only has two fronts and lolPaladins. Also no FoW. Then there's the desert where most enemies can only move 2 spaces while Micaiah is still full.

Micaiah doesn't have much of a role in part 3, so let's go to part 4.

Wut.

You have not done your research. DB Laguz enemies are mostly stronger than the GM's bosses, and the team is notably worse statistically. You need all the strong range punches and healing you can get.

Plus his free Adept activates frequently enough as an Archsage, while Sacrifice is almost as bad as it is good.

No. Adept is being ripped off Soren the moment you hit 3-P because he sucks ass with it. Much better in the hands of almost anyone else on the team. Soren does not get to keep Adept because it's free on him.

Sacrifice is fine because Micaiah is mostly ORKOd anyway.

Finally, the only area Micaiah beats Soren in is her higher ranking in staves. But Soren is very good with a Heal and you do get plenty of Arms Scrolls.

Physic anyone? Fortify? Matrona?

[Fayt Zelpher]

I am with you here, as I haven't ever gotten around to HM. I play too efficiently and I like how I can be very efficient on EM and NM.

Jeez, not even an honerable mention to Calil? She ties for second best mage speed growth, Pelleas with first, tied with Tormod. Her skill is also up there, tied with several units. She can easily catch up to your other units if for some reason you have crap units and want to raise her. I will admit, that the downfall to using her is that she needs BEXP in 3-11. As for 4-5, I normally take my hawks out and then have Calil and Volke and anyone else I brought make their way to the middle island, so Calil can get some levels here due to fire's effectiveness.

I admit that you do have a point. Nonetheless, Calill has notable growth problems in HP and Def. 35 HP growth + 15 defense growth is awful, though she does have decent bases for her level. Plus, she doesn't have the time to build up supports. I'll admit that I was a bit harsh on her (possibly due to it being 1:30 AM and not having my full faculties awake, but she also has a lot less availability than Mickey, Soren, and Ilyana. As a result, she also has less time to get a support. Marcia (maybe Kieran) is the only CRK worth using, and only Marcia has an affinity worth it, so she's probably not getting a good support until 4-E. So yes, I'd say she could probably fit in with Sanaki and Lehran, though she's not the best mage.

By the way, if you're going to take Calill/Marcia support, they probably want to go with Micaiah anyway for the desert chapter (plus Marcia gets triangle attack bonus too, which can be very helpful), meaning they're not getting 4-5's Exp anyway.

[Lilmik11]

I don't like Mage in this game.They are kind of slow for me,except maybe Soren.I HAVE to give my point to Micaiah,she always have been useful to me!I part 1,she can do very good damage,in part 3 she heal,in part 4 she's doing both and in endgame she 1RKO Red Dragons.Too bad her speed is so bad that she will rarely double!

Edited January 1, 2010 by Lilmik11

[RNG Princess]

Micaiah > Soren 1,000% all she needs is her automatic promotion to gain staves (and physic staves at that) and she'll be swimming in her own exp pool unlike Soren who gains less exp compared to her healing <3 and then theres Sanaki who is forced, Soren is really part 3's Ily dealing chip damage and for endgame her rexthunder is shiny :)

and non-doubling Micaiah having Thani > a doubling Soren

Edited January 1, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Kinata]

First off RFoF, when I made that comment about the staves, I was only referring to Micaiah in part 1 and Soren in part 3. Was it really that unclear? But your points were good, and you're probably right. Though I was not talking about EM, I was in fact arguing about NM. I haven't played FE10 in like half of a year, so I didn't think my points were that accurate anyway.

[shroudening]

I voted for Pelleas. First off, he's the only one who can use Dark magic (AKA the strongest type of magic) in the entire game. Although he is only available for part 4, he still kicks ass if you bother to raise him. As an arch sage, he can wield thunder magic, which is extremely helpful for Endgame III where you fight Dragon Laguz.

He's just as good as Micaiah for the most part, except he doesn't have forced promotion.

Pelleas> Micaiah > Soren > others

I know that most of you are going to disagree with me because it's only my opinion. I'll admit that he doesn't have the greatest speed, but he doesn't get doubled by opponents either...

[Bryan]

I don't use Calil for two reasons,

A. I have Sanaki, who takes up a free slot.

B. If I am doing a male only playthorugh, I will use Tormond.

The only reason I would use her is if I switched her class to Arch-Sage(Wind) So that she could use Rexcal.

[Fayt Zelpher]

I voted for Pelleas. First off, he's the only one who can use Dark magic (AKA the strongest type of magic) in the entire game. Although he is only available for part 4, he still kicks ass if you bother to raise him. As an arch sage, he can wield thunder magic, which is extremely helpful for Endgame III where you fight Dragon Laguz.

He's just as good as Micaiah for the most part, except he doesn't have forced promotion.

Pelleas> Micaiah > Soren > others

I know that most of you are going to disagree with me because it's only my opinion. I'll admit that he doesn't have the greatest speed, but he doesn't get doubled by opponents either...

On easy mode, that's true, especially since you can afford a paragon during 4-5. But, assuming NM, your going to want to give paragon scrolls to characters that are going to go to endgame, and you'll probably have at least one on a forced character (Sothe or Mickey). Besides, with Mickey and Sanaki forced, you're not necessarily going to want to bring a third mage (except Elincia for a second healer). The reason why Micaiah > Pelleas isn't because of their part 4 performance or their caps, it's because Micaiah has a part one where she's desperately needed for Thanibombing and sacrifice and a part 3 where she can heal the DB.

[shroudening]

True.

I'm assuming you can only get 1 SS rank per unit right? I always train 4 Arch sages for endgame XD

[Bryan]

True.

I'm assuming you can only get 1 SS rank per unit right? I always train 4 Arch sages for endgame XD

Yes. I always have 3 (+ Sanaki, Micky & Mist) Archsages that I train. :/

[Krad]

Soren isn't even close to becoming the best mage. I use Soren on every playthrough so I know he has many issues. To have a chance at doubling at NM and HM he needs transfers from POR, preferably Mag, Skl, Spd and Res. If he gets all that, he has a slight hope at BEXP abuse to get some speed and double a bit until his cap gets him. Even in 3-P 23 speed (His tier 2 cap) has trouble doubling. By the time he gets to 23 speed (around 3-5 or 3-7 with BEXP) you already need 24-25 AS to double reliably.

I consider Micaiah better since her team needs her much more than the GM needs Soren, and then she gets staves and she still manages to be a positive, since you can let her in a corner and spam physics left and right, and if she has enough speed, maybe kill an enemy here and there. Soren needs to get many level ups, a crown and more levels ups while increasing his staff rank just to be able to do that, and when he gets to that point, your GM should already be near invincible, so his healing isn't as needed.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Krad

[Redthir Jerdisheim]

My Soren maxed out Magic, Skill and Resistanc and possibly Defence as a Level 13 Wind Sage. I used Bonus Exp for the rest of his level ups and since he gets 3 random stats, he managed to cap Speed, Defence and Strength as well. This really boosted him as an Archsage and Soren never had problems with doubling. He didn't get hit too easily, and had enough Defence to survive several attacks. And he killed Catalena in one hit. Sure, this was on Easy mode, but he still would've owned.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Redthir Jerdisheim

[Narga_Rocks]

Calill is absolutely terrible... The only this she can do is double Auras and she has Meteor in 2-E. Besides the inefficiency of actually raising her to endgame level, you can't make use of her doubling Dheg. She needs capped HP, a defense support, and Night Tide to even survive with 2 HP, and she'll get killed off by the AoE or if another Dragon attacks her. This 34 speed is incredibly over-hyped...

What about spirits? Also, why aren't you healing her after attacking dheg anyway? Why is she even the one to attack him?

Because, mages in general are poor for endgame, the easiest part of the game, so what they do before should carry more weight when their fairly more useful right? Well Micaiah and Soren are much better than Calill before endgame, and during endgame Micaiah can still perform better, as said before, Nosferatu on the Dragon Chapter.

Soren is poor for endgame. Calill is not.

She is inefficient to raise for endgame because she can barely gain 4 levels before 3-11, where most of your planned units should be transitioning to third tier, and she doesn't perform well at all in that Chapter, or at 3-endgame.

That's not really proving inefficiency. In order for her to be inefficient for endgame she'd have to actually slow you down while being trained.

You could take her to 4-5, but that takes 30-40 turns, hardly efficient play.

How does sticking her in 4-5 take 30+ turns?

Now, let's say you do take her to endgame. First off, she faces a bunch of generals. If she's 20/20/5, she can't double without Rexflame, which unfortunately, is stuck at 15 uses. Even if she did use it, she's not killing anything, and 15 uses get's used up pretty quickly. Come 4-E-2, and she's not doing much better. I'll admit, she can help use a Siege tome on Levail, but that's about it, and Micaiah and Sanaki can do the same, and with the help of Leanne or Rafiel, they can kill him in one turn without Calill's help. Moving on to the dragon chapter, where she can finally use Rexflame, she get's killed off in two shots by the red dragons, and deals crappy damage to White Dragons. And for funzies, the maximum damage she can do vs. Dheg is 9 x 2. That's IF she caps magic and has an A Water support. That's really not great. In fact, with a Bolting she does more damage per hit. Past 4-E-3 all the enemies have high resistance, and she is stuck to spirit killing. Real special.

It's not as if everyone else is ORKOing Generals anyway, you know. She does better than Soren, anyway.

I've used Calill before, and I liked her, but really, the extra damage output in Endgame compared to her other mages isn't worth her major suck period before endgame. I'm surprised Tormod doesn't get more fandom, because he can do the same thing Calill does in Endgame. And he actually is fairly useful in most of his chapters before endgame. I know, he comes in one chapter before endgame at second tier, but Calill comes with only 4 chapters. Is that really that much better?

Um, 2-E, 3-9, 3-11, 3-E, 4-P/1/2 get her way ahead of him in both accuracy and the other important stats. Also more paragon opportunity if you really want. She'll be nearing promotion while he's still near base level. I find it rather understandable that Tormod would be looked down on in everything but EM.

By Soren and Micaiah being similar you mean Micaiah gets doubled and Soren doubles? Soren can dodge quite effectively, especially with an Ike support, Micaiah might be able to dodge better, but she still will be doubled a lot in part 3 and 4 if you expose her to danger. Also, be 4-E-1, Thani probably can't even OHKO the generals anymore and I highly doubt she'll be doubling them. Rhys is quite slow and lacks avoid. Sanaki is good once she gets a few points of strength and speed so she isn't weighed down and can double. However, she will always be quite fragile.

Um, yeah, as others have said, why on earth would you give Soren to Ike? Also, he's not doubling outside EM. And he's still not looking at reliable avo even with Ike, and he's still getting 2HKOd by almost everything in existence.

Wow, I just checked their growths, and they have the same speed. I guess the fact that Micaiah has a much lower base speed and smaller amount of time to grow in her 2nd tier is what really makes her slow. As for the Soren x Ike, an A support between them can be very useful, particularly once Soren starts doubling. The only other option that I would see rivaling that is Ike x Oscar, but other people want Oscar's support more than Ike. Ike isn't really going to get hit hard by things, except mages, He won't have hit problems, and his attack is sufficient.

Um, no, Mia x Ike is >>>>> Soren x Ike. By the time they hit B Mia has so much more avo than Soren x Ike would have and she has actually reliable avo, even on HM. A level just makes it funny. And she's actually got >>> his proc for killing enemies no matter what you let him have since she doubles and 3HKOs and he doesn't double. Oscar x Ike is actually another of the dumbest supports for Ike, right below Soren x Ike on the list of stupid things to do with Ike's Earth. Oscar doesn't want Ike and Ike doesn't want Oscar and Oscars offence is bad enough that an efficient player doesn't really want Oscar anywhere near Ike since Ike is on the front lines killing things. And "once Soren starts doubling" is basically late part 3 after promotion and that's it, since enemy spd goes up in part 4 too high for him. Oh, and dragons, I suppose.

It's not that hard to protect Soren. Just keep him with the rest of the team and each turn, kill the surronding enemies. It's not like you have to surrond him with 4 characters every turn. The main argument for Micaiah is she is needed in part 1. I've only played NM, but Edward and Nolan aren't that bad. They can probably hold their own until you get guys like Sothe and Zihark, especially if they start to support each other. I used her, but I don't think she is so necessary that it makes her better than Soren. And is Thani really that necessary (not a rhetorical question)?

Oh, you can keep him alive. But you can't protect him and fully use Ike at the same time. Also, protecting Micaiah in part 1 is simple enough as well, and OHKOing armors that many other characters 3RKO is quite significant.

I don't use Calil for two reasons,

A. I have Sanaki, who takes up a free slot.

B. If I am doing a male only playthorugh, I will use Tormond.

The only reason I would use her is if I switched her class to Arch-Sage(Wind) So that she could use Rexcal.

How is B relevant?

Anyway, Sanaki won't be getting the str to not lose spd with Rexflame anyway. Calill is your only Rexflame user that will actually hit 34 AS with the thing. Also, if she was an Arch-Sage(Wind), I'd never bother to raise her since she'd be utterly pointless. What good is Rexcal? Rexflame gives spd.

My Soren maxed out Magic, Skill and Resistanc and possibly Defence as a Level 13 Wind Sage. I used Bonus Exp for the rest of his level ups and since he gets 3 random stats, he managed to cap Speed, Defence and Strength as well. This really boosted him as an Archsage and Soren never had problems with doubling. He didn't get hit too easily, and had enough Defence to survive several attacks. And he killed Catalena in one hit. Sure, this was on Easy mode, but he still would've owned.

Except on NM and HM your exp gain is slower and bexp costs more and enemies have a lot more spd and accuracy. He'd never double, he'd get hit a lot easier, and he'd have the hp/def to take 2 hits usually, though occasionally 3 from weaker enemies. He's far from owning on higher difficulties.

I voted for Pelleas. First off, he's the only one who can use Dark magic (AKA the strongest type of magic) in the entire game. Although he is only available for part 4, he still kicks ass if you bother to raise him. As an arch sage, he can wield thunder magic, which is extremely helpful for Endgame III where you fight Dragon Laguz.

He needs extreme amounts of bexp to double even the Generals in 4-E-1. Sorry, he isn't great if you bother to raise him unless you put so much work into him that the same work on any other unit makes them >> him anyway. Also, dark sucks. It has terrible hit and I'm not sure you can even forge it. Don't think you can, anyway, given that there is no E dark magic. He'll be more useful with a forged thunder up until you get Balberith, then you need to give him an arms scroll unless you want to be stuck with Dark Magic for at least 16 uses. Probably more unless you just use Verrine (65 hit). And then it's the worst SS magic of them all since it only has 75 hit. Even Rexbolt has 95 hit (though more like 101 hit thanks to the +3 skill). Rexflame has 25 more hit, and it has something useful for it's bonus. Pelleas' promotion bonus of +4 str is enough for him to be able to wield Balberith with no AS loss anyway, so what's the point of the +3 str aside from making Lehran able to have 39 AS with the thing? Even Izuka already has 15 str. Pointing out that he uses Dark Magic is a major point against him being the best sage.

He's just as good as Micaiah for the most part, except he doesn't have forced promotion.

Or SS staves, or S staves in a reasonable amount of time, or like 15 chapters of utility. Nah, he's just as good. Sure.

Pelleas> Micaiah > Soren > others

Micaiah > Calill > Soren > others > Pelleas.

Only Calill v Soren is really debatable. Possibly Ilyana and Soren are debatable as well, though I may be one of the few that think so. In NM I'll give that Soren > Ilyana, but in HM I think it's much more debatable.

I know that most of you are going to disagree with me because it's only my opinion. I'll admit that he doesn't have the greatest speed, but he doesn't get doubled by opponents either...

I'm disagreeing because I can't see any playstyle in which he is the best. If you are just valuing endgame, Calill > Pelleas. If you value ease of raising, Soren, Micaiah, Calill > Pelleas. If you value whole game contributions, Micaiah and co > Pelleas. The only way he's the best is if you are talking about Dark Mages who happen to be temporary kings of Daein. Or, units that need a master crown in order to hit S staves in a reasonable amount of time. I can't imagine any logical value system under which Pelleas is actually the best sage.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Narga_Rocks