Le Communard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Yes, God is very benevolent that way. He loves us so much we get to suffer in hell for all eternity if we don't believe in him (or just die entirely, dunno which branch you subscribe to, although I notice you do claim that faith>works everytime)! It makes pefrect sense: those who are Damned were meant to be Damnd. In GODS wisdom did he sort men into the Saved and Damned at the moment of creation. All is as ordained--It's the LORDS way. Edited July 10, 2009 by Le Communard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) It makes pefrect sense: those who are Damned were meant to be Damnd. IN GODS wisdom did he sort men into the Saved and Damned at the moment of creation. All is as ordained--It's the LORDS way. He knew it all along too, he knew the scumbags who didn't believe in him would be scumbags, so he said FUCK'EM ALL! What a clever bloke. Edited July 10, 2009 by ZXValaRevan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Communard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 He knew it all along too, he knew the scumbags who didn't believe in him would be scumbags, so he said FUCK'EM ALL! What a clever bloke. He kept them in only to tempt the Saved, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 He kept them in only to tempt the Saved, of course. if he meant them to tempt the Saved, then are the Saved really Saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Communard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 if he meant them to tempt the Saved, then are the Saved really Saved? Explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) well, if i were a powerful omnipotent god, and i divided people by being Saved and being Damned, why would I keep the Damned alive to tempt the Saved, if the Saved are Saved anyways and no amount of tempting will make the Saved Damned? or am i missing something? :o:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O Edited July 10, 2009 by Hello Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kommissar Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Le Communard is taking the piss, Hello Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Le Communard is taking the piss, Hello Vader. lovely! XD i knew it, but i decided to play along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 well, if i were a powerful omnipotent god, and i divided people by being Saved and being Damned, why would I keep the Damned alive to tempt the Saved, if the Saved are Saved anyways and no amount of tempting will make the Saved Damned?or am i missing something? :o:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O Because he's God and us mere mortals cannot come close to understanding His Divine will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Communard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) well, if i were a powerful omnipotent god, and i divided people by being Saved and being Damned, why would I keep the Damned alive to tempt the Saved, if the Saved are Saved anyways and no amount of tempting will make the Saved Damned?or am i missing something? :o:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O Well the Saved need a way to prove they're really saved, so the LORD devised Earth as a kind of, well, test for them... ... ... ...you know, screw it, that God guy is just one sick Son of a Bitch. DARN YOU GOD AND YOUR MEDDLING WAYS! DARN YOU TO HECK! i knew it, but i decided to play along! Thats the point. It's where all the fun is! Edited July 10, 2009 by Le Communard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) dear me, i forgot about that Well the Saved need a way to prove they're really saved, so the LORD devised Earth as a kind of, well, test for them... ... ... ...you know, screw it, that God guy is just one sick Son of a Bitch. DARN YOU GOD AND YOUR MEDDLING WAYS! DARN YOU TO HECK! what do i win? :o Edited July 10, 2009 by Hello Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Communard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 what do i win?:o 72 Virgins and a vacation to the Bahamas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 well, if i were a powerful omnipotent god, and i divided people by being Saved and being Damned, why would I keep the Damned alive to tempt the Saved, if the Saved are Saved anyways and no amount of tempting will make the Saved Damned?or am i missing something? :o:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O Every person has the potential to be saved. If he did such things like you suggest, sending Jesus to die for our sins would be pointless. Once you're saved, you can never lose that salvation. We will still sin, yes, since we are still in human flesh. However, by His Grace, that sin will not get you to Hell. Jesus died for all sinners, so every person has the choice on their fate when they die. If he separated the lost from the saved, we'd all die the instant we gain a conscience. So that is why God keeps the lost alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Actually, yes, it considers homosexuality a sin, but God hates only sin, not the sinner. We all sin, yet God gave his only begotten Son to save us from suffering from it. If he hated us for sinning, he would have not done that. Malachi 1:2-3 "I have loved you," says the LORD. "But you ask, 'How have you loved us?' "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the LORD says. "Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals." He definitely hated people, whether or not he hated sin. Edited July 10, 2009 by Esau of Isaac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kedyns Crow Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Every person has the potential to be saved. If he did such things like you suggest, sending Jesus to die for our sins would be pointless. Once you're saved, you can never lose that salvation. We will still sin, yes, since we are still in human flesh. However, by His Grace, that sin will not get you to Hell. Jesus died for all sinners, so every person has the choice on their fate when they die. If he separated the lost from the saved, we'd all die the instant we gain a conscience. So that is why God keeps the lost alive. Why would God make it so that the only way for his believers' sins to be forgiven would be through the brutal torture and execution of his son? According to the Christians, God created heaven, so he also created the rules in getting into heaven. If he truly loved all of his creations he wouldn't spend extra time devising ways to prevent them from reaching heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Communard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Why would God make it so that the only way for his believers' sins to be forgiven would be through the brutal torture and execution of his son? Because it makes a damn good story. And thats the truth. It gets a little preachy at points, but boy does the New Testament have a good yarn. Edited July 10, 2009 by Le Communard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 God saves his people Interpretation A: God saves those created in his image Interpretation B: God saves only those who pledge themselves in his footsteps DIVERGENCE BEGINS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Communard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 God saves his peopleInterpretation A: God saves those created in his image Interpretation B: God saves only those who pledge themselves in his footsteps DIVERGENCE BEGINS I DISAGREE WITH YOUR VERBIAGE! THIS CALLS FOR A SCHISM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Why would God make it so that the only way for his believers' sins to be forgiven would be through the brutal torture and execution of his son? According to the Christians, God created heaven, so he also created the rules in getting into heaven. If he truly loved all of his creations he wouldn't spend extra time devising ways to prevent them from reaching heaven. It was to pay our sin debt. Before hand, sin was forgiven by blood sacrifices, think of Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice, since that is what he was. By our own works, there would have been no way to make it to Heaven. By this, God made time to help us reach Heaven, not to prevent us. All that is needed to accept Jesus as your personal savior. Think of this way: Heaven is eternal life, and Hell is eternal separation. By rejecting Christ, it's like saying "I don't accept You", therefore his response is, "Ok then, you probably won't care then if you are separated from eternal life for eternity once you die". Sounds pretty unfair from a human perspective, but what's God's fair and our fair is completely different. He gave all of us the perfect opportunity to be saved from eternal separation, but whether accept it or not is all up to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kedyns Crow Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 It was to pay our sin debt. Before hand, sin was forgiven by blood sacrifices, think of Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice, since that is what he was. By our own works, there would have been no way to make it to Heaven. By this, God made time to help us reach Heaven, not to prevent us. All that is needed to accept Jesus as your personal savior. Think of this way: Heaven is eternal life, and Hell is eternal separation. By rejecting Christ, it's like saying "I don't accept You", therefore his response is, "Ok then, you probably won't care then if you are separated from eternal life for eternity once you die". Sounds pretty unfair from a human perspective, but what's God's fair and our fair is completely different. He gave all of us the perfect opportunity to be saved from eternal separation, but whether accept it or not is all up to us. By making it possible for people to be denied eternal life, God was preventing people from entering heaven. It doesn't matter how you word it, God decided when he created the Heavens and the Earth back in Genesis that he was going to send some of his creations to eternal hell, and some to eternal bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 By making it possible for people to be denied eternal life, God was preventing people from entering heaven. It doesn't matter how you word it, God decided when he created the Heavens and the Earth back in Genesis that he was going to send some of his creations to eternal hell, and some to eternal bliss. And it is all a matter of the creations' choice. Yes, God could have easily made us mindless robots with no decision making abilities, but he wanted us to have actual life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 And it is all a matter of the creations' choice. Yes, God could have easily made us mindless robots with no decision making abilities, but he wanted us to have actual life. Except he knows what we're going to do, so really we don't have any free will. Also, God could have just been like "Hey, everyone gets into heaven, life is just for the fun of it bro" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Communard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Except he knows what we're going to do, so really we don't have any free will. Not necessarily--if God was only Omniscient and not Omnipotent that wouldn't be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Not necessarily--if God was only Omniscient and not Omnipotent that wouldn't be so. Well, in that case, we wouldn't really have "free will" as such, because, again, he knows what we're going to do, thus we are GOING to do that. Essentially it makes everything pre-ordained. But yeah, the omnipotence thing makes it so that he knows and determines exactly what we're going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Communard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Well, in that case, we wouldn't really have "free will" as such, because, again, he knows what we're going to do, thus we are GOING to do that. Essentially it makes everything pre-ordained. But yeah, the omnipotence thing makes it so that he knows and determines exactly what we're going to do. No, if she were omniscient, as in "all seeing", she would only know what we think we're going to do, not necessarily what will happen. Edited July 11, 2009 by Le Communard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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