Question about the Christian God

[Der Kommissar]

Don't be an idiot, Santa Snake.

Okay, okay, I'll try not to ask the impossible: don't be a complete idiot. You mischaracterize my post. I was commenting on the fact that religion has been only one driving factor in the many atrocities that it has been attached to, and that it's intellectually dishonest to suggest that religious mania alone is to blame (though, as I noted, that has its own disgusting effect).

I, nor anyone else, should feel to point out that religion is an element in good acts simply because we state that it's one in nasty acts.

[Candlejack]

And for the record, the nasty acts far outweigh the good acts in both quantity and quality.

It's really fallen on deaf ears in most of the world. Sure, there are your churches and synagogues and mosques, but overall, the world isn't exactly a god-fearing place (Unless they claim to be, but then they just have an ulterior motive. Usually).

Call me a cynic, but isn't Christianity one big hypocrisy? A majority of the world's religion celebrates the teachings of a Jewish man they hanged? And in the Old Testament, didn't God kill the ENTIRE world? Twice too, I think.

You know how many people Satan killed in the Old Testament? THREE. THREE PEOPLE.

[Hero]

Hey Robert of Leinster. You've already made your point, that you aren't religious and don't have much respect for those who are. If you keep posting in this thread, don't try to pull any more of this crap where you blast traditions you don't understand and then support it with falsities. You sound like a troll.

And for the record, the nasty acts far outweigh the good acts in both quantity and quality.

It's really fallen on deaf ears in most of the world. Sure, there are your churches and synagogues and mosques, but overall, the world isn't exactly a god-fearing place (Unless they claim to be, but then they just have an ulterior motive. Usually).

Can you offer any kind of proof for those two assertions?

A majority of the world's religion celebrates the teachings of a Jewish man they hanged?

Not a majority. More like a third.

And in the Old Testament, didn't God kill the ENTIRE world? Twice too, I think.

You know how many people Satan killed in the Old Testament? THREE. THREE PEOPLE.

There's a lot of context behind each of those, which I think it's unfair to exclude when making this kind of statement. Also, Satan outside of the New Testament is an angel of God and not in opposition to God in any way, so there's no reason to compare their "kill counts" from the Old Testament.

[Candlejack]

Hey Robert of Leinster. You've already made your point, that you aren't religious and don't have much respect for those who are. If you keep posting in this thread, don't try to pull any more of this crap where you blast traditions you don't understand and then support it with falsities. You sound like a troll.

And for the record, the nasty acts far outweigh the good acts in both quantity and quality.

It's really fallen on deaf ears in most of the world. Sure, there are your churches and synagogues and mosques, but overall, the world isn't exactly a god-fearing place (Unless they claim to be, but then they just have an ulterior motive. Usually).

Can you offer any kind of proof for those two assertions?

Well, let's see, there's the Imams who manipulate others in order for Americans to continue purchasing their gas for Petrol money to fuel terrorists for one. Also, the Middle-East War started with the Palestinian's claims that the Jews were on their land, which supposedly was given to them by God... when the Jews had been there just as long, if not longer. Oh, and my favorite: the Westboro Baptist Church. Yeah, check them out.

Not a majority. More like a third.

That is quite a lot when compared to other religions other than Islam.

And in the Old Testament, didn't God kill the ENTIRE world? Twice too, I think.

You know how many people Satan killed in the Old Testament? THREE. THREE PEOPLE.

There's a lot of context behind each of those, which I think it's unfair to exclude when making this kind of statement. Also, Satan outside of the New Testament is an angel of God and not in opposition to God in any way, so there's no reason to compare their "kill counts" from the Old Testament.

Do you know of the story of Job? If not, then Satan comes to God and have a chat. They discuss Job and how faithful he is to God. Well, Satan makes a deal and says, "If you took everything he had away from him, he will curse your name".

So God did it. And Job got a little angry, but then God, to paraphrase, said, "What the fuck do YOU know, you little bitch? I'M GOD".

so Job apologized and God was all, "See, I told you"? Then he gave Job back what he took.

The moral of the story is that God is an asshole who likes to ruin people's lives to prove a point.

BUT I DIGRESSED WAY TOO MUCH.

Satan is in that story, not directly MENTIONED, but he is most certainly there.

[Phoenix Wright]

Don't be an idiot, Santa Snake.

Okay, okay, I'll try not to ask the impossible: don't be a complete idiot. You mischaracterize my post. I was commenting on the fact that religion has been only one driving factor in the many atrocities that it has been attached to, and that it's intellectually dishonest to suggest that religious mania alone is to blame (though, as I noted, that has its own disgusting effect).

I, nor anyone else, should feel to point out that religion is an element in good acts simply because we state that it's one in nasty acts.

True. Sorry.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Santa Snake

[quanta]

Learn to read better. I said "seem to be."

You do realize that doesn't really change much right? For example, both of the following two statements are likely to be offensive (and possibly inaccurate) to (about) our hypothetical everyman Harry:

"Harry is a racist bastard."

"Harry seems to be a racist bastard."

Using "seems to be" rather than "is" does not change whether or not a statement is a mischaracterization of anothers post.

[Phoenix Wright]

Learn to read better. I said "seem to be."

You do realize that doesn't really change much right? For example, both of the following two statements are likely to be offensive (and possibly inaccurate) to (about) our hypothetical everyman Harry:

"Harry is a racist bastard."

"Harry seems to be a racist bastard."

Using "seems to be" rather than "is" does not change whether or not a statement is a mischaracterization of anothers post.

True. Sorry Kommissar.

[BK-201]

I would like to take a moment to pose this question.

Is there a separation of Church and State?

Though the Bill of Rights, Amendment 1 gives the right to freedom of religion, many every day practices seem to go agaisnt this.

In schools, the Pledge of Allegiance states "One nation, under God."

The word God is mentioned many times throughout our government.

So I ask the members of the Serenes Forest.

Is there truly a seperation of Chruch and State?

[Crystal Shards]

I would like to take a moment to pose this question.

Is there a separation of Church and State?

Though the Bill of Rights, Amendment 1 gives the right to freedom of religion, many every day practices seem to go agaisnt this.

In schools, the Pledge of Allegiance states "One nation, under God."

The word God is mentioned many times throughout our government.

So I ask the members of the Serenes Forest.

Is there truly a seperation of Chruch and State?

The "One Nation Under God" shit came around because of McCarthyism and all that, if I remember correctly.

[Fayt Zelpher]

I would like to take a moment to pose this question.

Is there a separation of Church and State?

Though the Bill of Rights, Amendment 1 gives the right to freedom of religion, many every day practices seem to go agaisnt this.

In schools, the Pledge of Allegiance states "One nation, under God."

The word God is mentioned many times throughout our government.

So I ask the members of the Serenes Forest.

Is there truly a seperation of Chruch and State?

The "One Nation Under God" shit came around because of McCarthyism and all that, if I remember correctly.

What you failed to read here is that while citizens enjoy the freedom of religion, we also enjoy the freedom from religion. Just as you have the right to practice whatever religion you see fit, so too do I enjoy the right that no individual or government force me to practice their religion. I have full right to practice a religion, or none at all, without you or anyone else telling me otherwise.

And yes, the whole "under god" phrase was not added until 1954.

[Hero]

The United States is very good about separating church and state, considering a large majority of the population is Christian in some form or another. There are slip-ups here and there, like with the Pledge of Allegiance, but overall religion is all but absent from public life, and for the majority it isn't a even a frequent influence in private life.

There are lots of secular countries that are being threatened a lot more seriously by religious groups, and not relatively benign ones like the evangelicals in the United States. Nobody seems to care enough about those, I think. If things continue their current course I think there's a chance that Turkey or Egypt will end up an Islamic Republic in the mold of Iran and a state sponsor of terrorism before too long. Maybe even both.

[Crystal Shards]

I would like to take a moment to pose this question.

Is there a separation of Church and State?

Though the Bill of Rights, Amendment 1 gives the right to freedom of religion, many every day practices seem to go agaisnt this.

In schools, the Pledge of Allegiance states "One nation, under God."

The word God is mentioned many times throughout our government.

So I ask the members of the Serenes Forest.

Is there truly a seperation of Chruch and State?

The "One Nation Under God" shit came around because of McCarthyism and all that, if I remember correctly.

What you failed to read here is that while citizens enjoy the freedom of religion, we also enjoy the freedom from religion. Just as you have the right to practice whatever religion you see fit, so too do I enjoy the right that no individual or government force me to practice their religion. I have full right to practice a religion, or none at all, without you or anyone else telling me otherwise.

And yes, the whole "under god" phrase was not added until 1954.

I didn't fail to read anything, and I full well comprehend what the First Amendment means. I simply corrected what I see as an error. The Pledge of Allegiance isn't mandated by the government.

Basically, I'm saying there wasn't a point to the original post.

[Fayt Zelpher]

I would like to take a moment to pose this question.

Is there a separation of Church and State?

Though the Bill of Rights, Amendment 1 gives the right to freedom of religion, many every day practices seem to go agaisnt this.

In schools, the Pledge of Allegiance states "One nation, under God."

The word God is mentioned many times throughout our government.

So I ask the members of the Serenes Forest.

Is there truly a seperation of Chruch and State?

The "One Nation Under God" shit came around because of McCarthyism and all that, if I remember correctly.

What you failed to read here is that while citizens enjoy the freedom of religion, we also enjoy the freedom from religion. Just as you have the right to practice whatever religion you see fit, so too do I enjoy the right that no individual or government force me to practice their religion. I have full right to practice a religion, or none at all, without you or anyone else telling me otherwise.

And yes, the whole "under god" phrase was not added until 1954.

I didn't fail to read anything, and I full well comprehend what the First Amendment means. I simply corrected what I see as an error. The Pledge of Allegiance isn't mandated by the government.

Basically, I'm saying there wasn't a point to the original post.

I'm not accusing you of ignorance in any way; I'm actually agreeing with you. I'm just extending your point and clarifying it a little bit more.

[Crystal Shards]

I'm not accusing you of ignorance in any way; I'm actually agreeing with you. I'm just extending your point and clarifying it a little bit more.

My apologies then. I misunderstood.

[Fayt Zelpher]

I'm not accusing you of ignorance in any way; I'm actually agreeing with you. I'm just extending your point and clarifying it a little bit more.

My apologies then. I misunderstood.

It happens. :) By the way, I look forward to seeing what new issue you will bring to the board.

[Kirbyiscool19]

Sin and evil in the world is a consequence of Man failing to follow God's orders. We ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil when we weren't supposed to, and because of that, sin entered the world. God let's it happen because there is a little something called FREE WILL that we have. It's not like we're forced to eat a cookie, or forced to watch T.V., we do it, and consequences come from it, whether it be good or bad for us. And He is not the "Christian God", He is the ONLY God.

I think I got the message right, I may have to check again to make sure I said the right thing.

BTW, I'm a member of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. That's why I believe this. We also believe that even though we are sinful, and sin constantly, God forgives us for our sin, and Jesus took away our sin from his innocent death on the cross. He was a perfect sacrificial lamb, and it was because of Him that we are saved. Also, we believe God is Triune, being 3 people in 1 person, as in the Father, Son(Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit. Our faith is built from the Holy Spirit, entering us from baptism.

BUT! I am not saying freedom of religion is wrong, I just don't approve of what other people believe. I am tolerant, but I don't trust in it.

Yet another thing, Atheism seems to be in and of itself a cult or religion. Am I right, or am I right?

Wow, I am NOT sorry for this huge wall of text.

[BK-201]

Sin and evil in the world is a consequence of Man failing to follow God's orders. We ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil when we weren't supposed to, and because of that, sin entered the world. God let's it happen because there is a little something called FREE WILL that we have. It's not like we're forced to eat a cookie, or forced to watch T.V., we do it, and consequences come from it, whether it be good or bad for us. And He is not the "Christian God", He is the ONLY God.

I think I got the message right, I may have to check again to make sure I said the right thing.

BTW, I'm a member of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. That's why I believe this. We also believe that even though we are sinful, and sin constantly, God forgives us for our sin, and Jesus took away our sin from his innocent death on the cross. He was a perfect sacrificial lamb, and it was because of Him that we are saved. Also, we believe God is Triune, being 3 people in 1 person, as in the Father, Son(Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit. Our faith is built from the Holy Spirit, entering us from baptism.

BUT! I am not saying freedom of religion is wrong, I just don't approve of what other people believe. I am tolerant, but I don't trust in it.

Yet another thing, Atheism seems to be in and of itself a cult or religion. Am I right, or am I right?

Wow, I am NOT sorry for this huge wall of text.

Don't preach to me.

Well firstly, we have to define religion.

One definition that is provided is: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny

Most of the other definitios seem to concede this point, unless you wish to define religion as a belief I can't see how atheism is a cult or religion.

The other text seems to be you trying to flaunt your religious ideals.

Edited February 14, 2010 by BK201

[Kintenbo]

Yet another thing, Atheism seems to be in and of itself a cult or religion. Am I right, or am I right?

Wow, I am NOT sorry for this huge wall of text.

Well, my pastor always says that there's always an authority someone follows and gives adoration to. In the end, there's no escaping having a god of some sort, whether it be our God Almighty, a god of another religion, or something that you give attention above all else (be it TV, money, a belonging, ect.) So, looking at it that way, being a full blown Atheist would require just acting like an empty shell. In the end, local atheists in my city, to name one, Spencer Mulesky (you lot, everyone except at least Crystal Shards, since we both live in Evansville, won't know him), still have some form of a god. In his case, if I've been observing him right, Super Smash Brothers Melee is his god.

We Christians (along with Jews), put our trust in the God who rewards righteousness, punishes sin, and forgives repented sin. God who Christians to have given us his only begotten Son, who died for our sins, so that we won't suffer eternally for our sins. All that needs to be done is accept it, and forever we are free from dreaded Hell. Naturally, it won't mean a thing to those who don't believe in God, but it perhaps explains why we Christians tend to be assertive and vocal about our beliefs.

[uguu]

They ate from the tree of knowledge because they were mentally retarded. God obviously thinks that retards are evil

[BK-201]

What kind of God gives his creation a brain but doesn't expect them to use it? That's a quote I heard once.

[Kintenbo]

What kind of God gives his creation a brain but doesn't expect them to use it? That's a quote I heard once.

No clue.

I know that the Bible never says anything against using our brains. The whole book of Proverbs teaches us what is wise and what is not. Also, I can safely say that he is perfectly for learning to read. For what its worth, another cliched Atheist term I hear when they are referring to God is "sky fairy", as if God is nothing more than a wish granter.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Kintenbo

[BK-201]

If he's really all powerful why punish us for doing what he knew we would do?

[Mousefire]

No clue.

I know that the Bible never says anything against using our brains. The whole book of Proverbs teaches us what is wise and what is not. Also, I can safely say that he is perfectly for learning to read. For what its worth, another cliched Atheist term I hear when they are referring to God is "sky fairy", as if God is nothing more than a wish granter.

Okay, Universe creating, Jew hating, petty, hateful, sky fairy

[Kintenbo]

If he's really all powerful why punish us for doing what he knew we would do?

Because he doesn't want us to be like robots, but by the same token, these punishments are meant to get us in the right direction. It's like a good parent when their child is misbehaving. It is meant for correction, not to be a big mean jerk. If you were a parent, would you want your kid to do whatever he wants, when what he wants is to run on a busy road or touch a hot stove? Naturally, some of the punishments do not appeal to us as mortals, but when compared to eternity, it is for the better.

As for Hell, it's not due to God, but our sin. God does not want us to go there. That's why he gave us his Son to turn us away.

Illustration time: Imagine us all as blind people. We go and walk away from our homes (Heaven) and start walking (sin) straight towards an endless cliff (Hell). God sent us a guide (Jesus) to help turn us around and back home. However, since God made us with free will, it's up to us to actually accept this offer. For those who don't, well, they fall. Those who do accept it, the guide turns us around, and will never let go no matter how hard we struggle to turn back around (sin). That's the answer I can think of as to why there is Hell for those who reject Jesus. God gave us all a chance to turn away from it, but whether we listen or not, its all up to us. We all are responsible for our actions. Hell was meant for Satan and his angels, but we as sin prone beings are attracted towards there, too.

That's my answer, whether you agree or not, its all up to you.

[Mousefire]

I have a question. Is every Jew that endured endless torture at the holocaust, every person in uncivilized lands who had never heard of god or Jesus, and person before Christianity was widely excepted burning in Hell?