Question about the Christian God

[Phoenix Wright]

Because God is omnipresent, he knows that there is evil in the world. Because he is omnibenevolent, he would do anything in his power to get rid of evil. Because he is omnipotent, he is capable of getting rid of evil. Why is there still evil?

Because God is quite lazy.

[Kedyns Crow]

Alright, so it seems that a lot of Christians are saying that God, of course being omnipresent and omniscient, knows that the evil is here, He just ignores it so that He can toughen up His worshipers. But doing this would be like somebody putting their newborn children in a tank full of piranhas. Doing that would not be a nice thing to do to somebody you created no matter who you are. The contradiction comes in because if God is omnibenevolent, it would be completely impossible for Him to tolerate evil of any kind. Something that is purely good in the way that the Christians have made their God, could not abide the taint of evil within something that it created. If God doesn't mind there being evil in the world, he is not omnibenevolent. If he does mind that there is evil in the world, then he is not omnipotent. And since God can't be both, the Christians are mistaken about their God's ability. Is it not also possible that they are mistaken of their God's existence also?

[Phoenix Wright]

Alright, so it seems that a lot of Christians are saying that God, of course being omnipresent and omniscient, knows that the evil is here, He just ignores it so that He can toughen up His worshipers. But doing this would be like somebody putting their newborn children in a tank full of piranhas. Doing that would not be a nice thing to do to somebody you created no matter who you are. The contradiction comes in because if God is omnibenevolent, it would be completely impossible for Him to tolerate evil of any kind. Something that is purely good in the way that the Christians have made their God, could not abide the taint of evil within something that it created. If God doesn't mind there being evil in the world, he is not omnibenevolent. If he does mind that there is evil in the world, then he is not omnipotent. And since God can't be both, the Christians are mistaken about their God's ability. Is it not also possible that they are mistaken of their God's existence also?

The Christian God has so many contradictions to it. If anyone was to EVER have a religion having one God (I'm obviously talking about the three major monotheistic religions), it should be Islam. Even that is a huge stretch though...

Edited July 9, 2009 by Feffle

[Le Communard]

Alright, so it seems that a lot of Christians are saying that God, of course being omnipresent and omniscient, knows that the evil is here, He just ignores it so that He can toughen up His worshipers. But doing this would be like somebody putting their newborn children in a tank full of piranhas. Doing that would not be a nice thing to do to somebody you created no matter who you are. The contradiction comes in because if God is omnibenevolent, it would be completely impossible for Him to tolerate evil of any kind. Something that is purely good in the way that the Christians have made their God, could not abide the taint of evil within something that it created. If God doesn't mind there being evil in the world, he is not omnibenevolent. If he does mind that there is evil in the world, then he is not omnipotent. And since God can't be both, the Christians are mistaken about their God's ability. Is it not also possible that they are mistaken of their God's existence also?

SERVANT OF SATAN, BEGONE!

[Kedyns Crow]

Yeah, don't stand too close to me, I leak burning napalm out of my pours.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Kedyns Crow

[Zanarkin]

Underlined part makes you an Atheist. An agnostic leans towards "I don't know". You can be an Agnostic Atheist, but you're still an Atheist.

I knew that sounded like a contradiction.

[Le Communard]

Yeah, don't stand too close to me, I leak burning napalm out of my pours.

*Le Communard sprinkles Holy Water on Kedyns Crow. Take that!

Edited July 9, 2009 by Le Communard

[Der Kommissar]

Here is my question:

Because God is omnipresent, he knows that there is evil in the world. Because he is omnibenevolent, he would do anything in his power to get rid of evil. Because he is omnipotent, he is capable of getting rid of evil. Why is there still evil?

Hey there Epicurus.

We've come to this point in multiple discussions on religion here, and it always boils down to the theists screaming "FREE WILL!" and the others pointing out that an omnipotent god should be able to destroy evil and preserve free will. Personally, I think it'd be easier just to admit that your god does not possess one or all of the three Os, like some parts of the Old Testament in particular suggest, but most won't go for that.

[Kedyns Crow]

Hey there Epicurus.

We've come to this point in multiple discussions on religion here, and it always boils down to the theists screaming "FREE WILL!" and the others pointing out that an omnipotent god should be able to destroy evil and preserve free will. Personally, I think it'd be easier just to admit that your god does not possess one or all of the three Os, like some parts of the Old Testament in particular suggest, but most won't go for that.

Good point. That's why I'm fascinated with the Greek and Norse mythology because they had such flawed Gods, and they admit it. I'm also impressed with your knowledge of Greek philosophy. I did not put Epicurus' thoughts into words nearly as beautifully as he did though. The original quote you are thinking of is:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

The he is not Omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?

Then why call him God.”

[Dies Mori]

Good point. That's why I'm fascinated with the Greek and Norse mythology because they had such flawed Gods, and they admit it. I'm also impressed with your knowledge of Greek philosophy. I did not put Epicurus' thoughts into words nearly as beautifully as he did though. The original quote you are thinking of is:

The Greek and Norse deities are more or less mortal beings with supernatural abilities; their lore even assists that.

Also, I think you're rather lacking if you don't realise half the ecclesiastic community (and the entirety of the forum-going internet) hasn't seen those words before. Really, now.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Its because God loves you all and wants you all to go to heaven, so he very carefully makes a plan to make it seem like there is no way he could possibly exist, so that you don't believe in him, so you go to hell and suffer for eternity BECAUSE HE LOVES YOU!

[Esau of Isaac]

The Greek and Norse deities are more or less mortal beings with supernatural abilities; their lore even assists that.

The Norse moreso, seeing as how they all age and eventually die.

[Dies Mori]

The Greeks follow to an extent in the fashion they pettily fight as humans while again possessing the ability to be killed, but yes, I suppose you're right, in a sense; after all, Cronos was never sculpted by a cryophilic cow.

[Kedyns Crow]

The Greek and Norse deities are more or less mortal beings with supernatural abilities; their lore even assists that.

Also, I think you're rather lacking if you don't realise half the ecclesiastic community (and the entirety of the forum-going internet) hasn't seen those words before. Really, now.

I'll admit that this is the first forum that I've joined. However, just because most people are familiar with the words, doesn't mean new discussions can't spring up from them. And as far as "rather lacking," that also may be true, although you didn't make it clear exactly what I'm lacking. I do know that somebody is "rather lacking" in their social skills in welcoming a new member. I forgive that flaw however, because Memento Mori is a cool name. You didn't base that off of the Kamelot song did you?

[Dies Mori]

I never stated you couldn't spring up alternate discussions, but to me your post seemed as if some sort of veiled attempt to disguise the words, thinking they were not nearly so well known; this interpretation may or not be wrong. This does remind me to find that old motivational, though.

Oh, and no, Arthurian references aren't my forte; Memento Mori is a rather recurrant latin saying.

EDIT: 'Are we go.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Memento Mori

[Rehab]

I have never understood what problem people have with being just the same as everything else: a bundle of atoms. It doesn't bother me one bit. It's what I do with my life that matters, not what I am made of.

Yeah, but I'd like to know why I have the ability to make those decisions, and how that's special, if at all. I don't want to cut some valid answer off prematurely. I don't jump into most religious discussions because A- I don't usually have a strong stand to make on a point being discussed and B- what I do have some investment in, I know it's on me to find my shit out beforehand.

We seem to have Here a Heretic of the Natural Phisofik Bent. Dareing to Second Guess the Nature of Gods Creation is the work of the Devil. Come the Rapture you willbe Judged.

Umfundisi, if you wanna start some'in, then I have no problem assuring that there will indeed be some'in, umfundiisi.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Rehab

[Crystal Shards]

Yeah, but I'd like to know why I have the ability to make those decisions, and how that's special, if at all. I don't want to cut some valid answer off prematurely. I don't jump into most religious discussions because A- I don't usually have a strong stand to make on a point being discussed and B- what I do have some investment in, I know it's on me to find my shit out beforehand.

Your brain developed enough to make those decisions. Pure and simple. Is it special? Depends on how you look at it.

[Esau of Isaac]

The Greeks follow to an extent in the fashion they pettily fight as humans while again possessing the ability to be killed, but yes, I suppose you're right, in a sense; after all, Cronos was never sculpted by a cryophilic cow.

Audulma was so damn random. Ymir was a pretty fair creation, and sounded kind of cool. At least his beginning was explained, unlike the cow's (as far as I know). Also, coming out of a salt lick by a divine cow is just ridiculous, for later gods. Some of the more bizarre actions of older mythologies is always more interesting (trying to outrun Thought, out-eat fire, and drink all of the ocean, for example).

Though I must say, Ragnarok in itself makes me like Norse mythology more. It was so epic to me as a kid.

Yeah, but I'd like to know why I have the ability to make those decisions, and how that's special, if at all.

And you're saying that you don't want to accept that each person is fundamentally a bag of chemicals acting and reacting to their surroundings, in the same sense that the rest of nature and everything else is?

Do you not find it to be truthful, or would you just not like it to be truthful?

Edited July 9, 2009 by Esau of Isaac

[Rehab]

Do you not find it to be truthful, or would you just not like it to be truthful?

I have no fucking idea. Quite possibly. :)

Therefore more science background legwork is necessary on my own time.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Rehab

[Dies Mori]

Audulma was so damn random. Ymir was a pretty fair creation, and sounded kind of cool. At least his beginning was explained, unlike the cow's (as far as I know). Also, coming out of a salt lick by a divine cow is just ridiculous, for later gods. Some of the more bizarre actions of older mythologies is always more interesting (trying to outrun Thought, out-eat fire, and drink all of the ocean, for example).

The situation has to entirely due with the culture it wa sbeing based off, I suppose, and the precedents therein; the Norse were a society made for war in their relevant time periods where their religion still persisted, which is in all probability what made Sturrdson use such odd fixes and ends here and there, such as a gigantic fucking cow who shaped the world, creation by melding of fire and ice and a variety of animals who have no use other than heralding that the apocalypse, it is nigh.

Though I must say, Ragnarok in itself makes me like Norse mythology more. It was so epic to me as a kid.

Add the Aesir-Vanir war and the slaying of the fire goiants into that, and you have a reason to love it beyond normality.

[Crystal Shards]

I have no fucking idea. Quite possibly. :)

Therefore more science background legwork is necessary on my own time.

Here's a good place to start.

Here's another good place to start.

(Since it's Wikipedia, I'd also recommend looking at the sources for more information. Wikipedia is good as a starting place, but not a source.

[Kedyns Crow]

I never stated you couldn't spring up alternate discussions, but to me your post seemed as if some sort of veiled attempt to disguise the words, thinking they were not nearly so well known; this interpretation may or not be wrong. This does remind me to find that old motivational, though.

Oh, and no, Arthurian references aren't my forte; Memento Mori is a rather recurrant latin saying.

EDIT: 'Are we go.

Well, remember that assuming makes an ass out of you and me (you don't know how long I've been waiting for an opportunity to say that). Perhaps if you reread my original post where it states that I haven't seen any religious discussions, so I will start one. And did you notice that I picked a topic within religion that has been debated for centuries, and has been in a continuous stalemate? It's been discussed for so long because it is interesting. If I wanted to be original, I wouldn't be discussing an idea, I'd be creating one. And if I was capable of creating brilliant ideas that are on par with the ideas proposed by Epicurus, I wouldn't be wasting my time sitting on a computer. And even though you've obviously discussed this topic before and have to have the displeasure of discussing it again, you should at least be thanking me because I gave you an opportunity to dazzle everyone with fancy words like ecclesiastic.

Oh, and as far as guessing the meaning of your name, I assumed that the chances of you being more interested in music than Latin would be much more likely (I definitely enjoy music more). Between the two of us, we've made asses of each other several times over.

[Doom103]

lol epic loop hole

I HAVE ONE!

They say incest is horribly wrong well....... incest stared our lives XD

another another

Bible says its bad to be gay and God won't love you. Is loving someone a crime and becuase you love someone God will not like you, but God is supposed to like everyone no?

XD Bible is a load of crap, though I believe in the Catholic Gad and I prey, doesn't change the fact the bible was written by a bunch of Greeks and Romans who weren't God, nor related to Jesus in anyways

[Kintenbo]

They say incest is horribly wrong well....... incest stared our lives XD

another another

Bible says its bad to be gay and God won't love you. Is loving someone a crime and becuase you love someone God will not like you, but God is supposed to like everyone no?

Of course, as time went on, and more people were around, incest would just cause obvious health problems to the child.

Actually, yes, it considers homosexuality a sin, but God hates only sin, not the sinner. We all sin, yet God gave his only begotten Son to save us from suffering from it. If he hated us for sinning, he would have not done that.

[Defeatist Elitist]

And did you notice that I picked a topic within religion that has been debated for centuries, and has been in a continuous stalemate?

If by stalemate you mean one side being essentially proven wrong, or at the very least, proven to hold a hilariously convoluted belief but just continuing to fight anyway, then yes. I don't call that a stalemate though.

Of course, as time went on, and more people were around, incest would just cause obvious health problems to the child.

Actually, yes, it considers homosexuality a sin, but God hates only sin, not the sinner. We all sin, yet God gave his only begotten Son to save us from suffering from it. If he hated us for sinning, he would have not done that.

Why did incest not create health problems at first?

Yes, God is very benevolent that way. He loves us so much we get to suffer in hell for all eternity if we don't believe in him (or just die entirely, dunno which branch you subscribe to, although I notice you do claim that faith>works everytime)!