Which characters would actually be worse with Gatrie's growth spread?

[Progenitus]

For reference...

50 HP, 60 str, 5 mag, 45 skl, 60 spd, 30 lck, 60 def, 35 res

I think even magic users would be better, despite having a 5 growth.

[Jaybee]

Nope. They'd never be able to do much damage after a while.

So, all mages are in that list.

[Grace]

50 HP, 60 str, 5 mag, 45 skl, 60 spd, 30 lck, 60 def, 35 res

Okay, who doesn't benefit from better concrete durability? Or enough speed growth to take most units into doubling range themselves/out of being doubled?

Mages would still benefit some, those with a better base Mag benefiting further. All third tier mages/stave users gain a mastery that allows them to ignore Res. They don't suffer that much, if at all.

All laguz (bar Nasir, but he doesn't count for how late he joins.) benefit from this growth spread immensly.

All physical attackers would love this growth spread. Even the weaker ones (Mist comes to mind immediately).

Herons would not mind the extra Def. Or Spd.

So really, no one would worse which Gatrie's growth spread.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Mist

[Narga_Rocks]

For reference...

50 HP, 60 str, 5 mag, 45 skl, 60 spd, 30 lck, 60 def, 35 res

I think even magic users would be better, despite having a 5 growth.

How about, anyone with a low skill/luck base? There's things like horseslayers, beast killers, hammers, spears, tempest blades... Things that require better base hit levels. Then there's braves in 4-E and the character would barely be able to hit. Also, units with low base hp generally appreciate >=70% growths. Mages that don't start with >30 magic. Actually, even those would like more magic, considering spirits and auras and their high res levels. Also, generals have pretty high res, so if a sage happens to be doubling I'd rather they can ORKO 100% rather than rely on flare.

Basically, anyone that already has enough str, spd, def to get by on their own growths would end up worse, because they'd start missing more and getting criticalled more often and if their def caps are somewhat low then that 60% def growth isn't saving them from fearing crits. Of course, you say lolskill and lolluck, so I guess you don't actually care about hitting all the time, and you don't care about Aran's possibility of getting critblicked so you clearly don't care about the higher crit rates your other units will be facing.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[NinjaMonkey]

50 HP, 60 str, 5 mag, 45 skl, 60 spd, 30 lck, 60 def, 35 res

Somehow I don't think that Pegasus Knights or Hawk/Raven laguz would appreciate the 30% luck growth, although they'd like the 60% Str/Def growths.

[Reikken]

Hm. Micaiah would be worse. She would never get doubled, but her def doesn't get that high because of terribly fail caps, and meanwhile, her offense and staff use suffers immensely. Her spd doesn't get as high as one would hope because of caps and promotion times, and her mag becomes utter fail. 10 at 20/1, 13 at 20/20/1. Without looking into it much, I say ditto for Laura. Not sure on Ilyana.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Reikken

[Narga_Rocks]

Hm. Micaiah would be worse. She would never get doubled, but her def doesn't get that high because of terribly fail caps, and meanwhile, her offense and staff use suffers immensely. Her spd doesn't get as high as one would hope because of caps and promotion times, and her mag becomes utter fail. 10 at 20/1, 13 at 20/20/1.

Yep, so much for thani-bombing armors in part 1, even. Her spd base is low enough that the 60% growth might not even let her double since armors have a stupidly high spd for a fire emblem game. Armors in 1-6-1 have the same speed as the generals in PoR's endgame. RD Level 12 tier one having the same speed as PoR level 16 tier two (which have like 19 in this game at that level).

[Reikken]

Indeed. Calill would also be worse as she already has a high spd growth, and her def cap is low, and she suffers greatly in mag and luck.

[Narga_Rocks]

Another fun thought is using Gatrie's growths as they compare to his class.

His growths:

50hp, 60str, 5mag, 45skl, 60spd, 30lck, 60def, 35res

His modifiers vs. Lance General:

-5hp, 20str, -40mag, 15skl, 35spd, -10lck, 10def, -15res

His modifiers vs. Marshall (Lance)

-25hp, 15str, -15mag, 0skl, 30spd, 5lck, 5def, -10res

A Fire sage (F) or Archsage (fire) (F) with Gatrie's modifiers:

30hp, 25str, 40mag, 45skl, 80spd, 25lck, 25def, 45res

Compared to Calill:

35hp, 25str, 45mag, 60skl, 55spd, 55lck, 15def, 50res

24.25 luck at 20/20. Compared to capping at 20/13.

She's fearing crits more/as much as Soren now. Seriously, she rarely worried about crits before, now she'd never be able to enemy phase at all. Throw in her now lower skill growth, instead of a 175% hit growth she's got 115% hit growth now. Not fun. Also less flaring. Caps tier 2 speed at level 15 now, and tier 3 at level 8 or 9. Slightly lower hp growth, mag growth, res growth, slightly better def growth. With low caps and smaller hp growth it doesn't change much, and she's a bit more vulnerable vs. mag now.

It compares quicker doubling to not fearing missing or getting critblicked as much. I vote Calill is not assisted by this.

And she becomes extreme suck with Gatrie v. Lance General growths.

50hp, 30 str, 15 mag, 60 skl, 85 spd, 10lck, 30def, 40 res.

Considering her base of 19, that magic growth makes her quite bad. 45% mag was already a little troublesome. That luck growth means 19.1 luck at 20/20, so that is extreme suckage, but at least her skill growth isn't any worse than before. She's a little less vulnerable (against enemies lacking crit) thanks to a higher hp growth and even more def, but caps still hurt and so does the 3 point res loss (10% over 31 levels).

I'm not going to do other characters.

[Candlejack]

Niime's spread is worse than Gatrie's. Regardless of game, she probably has the worst growths I've ever seen: her total growth percentage is 90%. I shit you not.

Besides, 60 in BOTH Defense and Strength isn't bad, and a 50% HP and a slightly lackluster 35% in Resistance?

What a wall.

[Zkirsche]

Niime's spread is worse than Gatrie's. Regardless of game, she probably has the worst growths I've ever seen: her total growth percentage is 90%. I shit you not.

Besides, 60 in BOTH Defense and Strength isn't bad, and a 50% HP and a slightly lackluster 35% in Resistance?

What a wall.

That's basically the idea. Gatrie has good growths, but a bad class. Smash here is trying to figure out if anyone would actually get worse from tehnse growth, which is, like, every magic user in existance sans Bastian and Oliver as they come so late, they don't care.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, let's take a look at Ike. We know his speed is annoying, right?

Gatrie:

50hp, 60str, 5mag, 45skl, 60spd, 30lck, 60def, 35res

His modifiers vs. Lance General:

-5hp, 20str, -40mag, 15skl, 35spd, -10lck, 10def, -15res

His modifiers vs. Marshall (Lance)

-25hp, 15str, -15mag, 0skl, 30spd, 5lck, 5def, -10res

Vanguard (same as hero)

80hp, 50str, 10mag, 70skl, 40spd, 30lck, 40def, 15res

Ike

65hp, 55str, 10mag, 60skl, 35spd, 30lck, 40def, 15res

Ike with Gatrie's modifiers over lance general

75hp, 70str, -30mag, 85skl, 75spd, 20lck, 50def, 0res.

Ike with Gatrie's modifiers over Marshall (Lance)

55hp, 65str, -5mag, 70skl, 70spd, 35lck, 45def, 5res.

So Ike with Gatrie's modifiers over Marshall (Lance) are best.

-10hp, +10str, -15mag, +10skl, +35spd, +5lck, +5def, -10res

And the other one:

+10hp, +15str, -40mag, +25skl, +40spd, -10lck, +10def, -15res

The second one is a bad idea, considering the luck drop and no res growth, and the advantages Ike has with Lance General Gatrie's modifiers are not enough to make up for it.

He only ends up with 12.4 res with

55hp, 65str, -5mag, 70skl, 70spd, 35lck, 45def, 5res.

anyway, but the fact that he only loses 2.8 hp and 2.8 res and who cares about magic is outweighed by his massive increases in spd, str, skl, and even lck and def went up.

Frankly, the growths on this Ike would be massively broken.

He'd likely cap things left right and centre and could boost his res with bexp anyway.

[Kaito]

Bastian and (maybe) Pelleas wouldn't care, their bases are all they care about.

[Candlejack]

Well you know who else could use Gatrie's awesome growths? Renning for sure. 60% in SPD, STR, and DEF- all that really matters for a horseman, let alone a Gold Knight. Add that to a 31 base strength and a base 29 speed and you've got an awesome pwnsome Pally. Sure, there might be RES to worry about but... it's res.

It's like complaining about getting cut by a rock when you're storming Normandy, it really means nothing in comparison. Also a fun fact: not regarding Laguz transformations, Renning has the highest Wt of any playable character.

I could see if Gatrie class-changed to a Gold Knight- oh my.

[Reikken]

That's basically the idea. Gatrie has good growths, but a bad class. Smash here is trying to figure out if anyone would actually get worse from tehnse growth, which is, like, every magic user in existance sans Bastian and Oliver as they come so late, they don't care.

Soren and Rhys would be better. Especially Rhys. He would be tons better.

[-Cynthia-]

Soren and Rhys would be better. Especially Rhys. He would be tons better.

Agreed.

However, some magic users would lose their usefulness with these growths, Micaiah can't Thainibomb armors anymore, so her Part 1 usefulness has been vastly reduced (and she's not using staves well either with basically base Mag). Laura wants some Mag to have at least somewhat effective healing, and even 60% Def growth won't help her durability much and her natural Spd growth is higher than Gatrie's. Calill is basically trading Mag/Skl/Res growth for Hp/Def--probably not a good tradeoff all in all.

So yeah Micaiah/Laura/Calill would probably like their original growths, but it's a pretty short list.

Edited August 29, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Candlejack]

What about herons? 60% DEF can't make up for a base of LOL6 at most.

They don't use STR, and even the SPD growth can't save LOL11.

The only thing that helps is RES, but even then, Reyson already has WTF17 base.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Err...Myrrh?

[Progenitus]

What about herons? 60% DEF can't make up for a base of LOL6 at most.

They don't use STR, and even the SPD growth can't save LOL11.

The only thing that helps is RES, but even then, Reyson already has WTF17 base.

It's better than the growths they have now. Even if it's only by a little.

[Narga_Rocks]

What about herons? 60% DEF can't make up for a base of LOL6 at most.

They don't use STR, and even the SPD growth can't save LOL11.

The only thing that helps is RES, but even then, Reyson already has WTF17 base.

It's better than the growths they have now. Even if it's only by a little.

The only thing herons really need is magic. If they had Micaiah's magic growth and nothing else they'd be better than they are now, even if only slightly.

[Reikken]

eh? Spd/HP/Def is what herons need more than anything. I don't want my heron to kick the bucket when I make even one mistake. Also more defense gives me more freedom in strategy. Like "X would be able to go do Y beneficial task, but he has to stay back to keep HERON from dying", to simplify it. Effective 120% growths in spd and def would be a great help.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Reikken

[Jaybee]

Err...Myrrh?

This is FE10. Not FE8.

Though you would be right to say that. Her HP and Def growths would go from overkill to good.

[Narga_Rocks]

eh? Spd/HP/Def is what herons need more than anything. I don't want my heron to kick the bucket when I make even one mistake. Also more defense gives me more freedom in strategy. Like "X would be able to go do Y beneficial task, but he has to stay back to keep HERON from dying", to simplify it. Effective 120% growths in spd and def would be a great help.

While I agree that having a heron able to get hit once might be nice, Rafiel and Leanne are generally never transformed. They'll be dying in part 4 anyway, and in part 1 and part 2 their bases are generally enough to not die from a mage, and they don't level much there anyway. The only one really leveling is Reyson, and transformed he starts with 40hp/10mag/22spd/31lck/12def/34res. I suppose one or two extra points of speed might be nice to prevent doubling in part 4, but I'd rather just not screw up and have the benefit of more hp healed if I leave someone next to him. An extra 2 hp healed almost every level would be a great blessing to me. How about I take Gatrie's spd growth and Micaiah's magic growth and nothing else? Actually, could I take Makalov's spd growth instead?

Actually, I think Reyson would take Mak's growths over Gatrie's. Calill's would be welcome, too. You know what, can I just give him Vika's growths?

[ReformBlade]

Meh, I say Mages would suck with it. Their already abysmal damage output just went down the chute. It really just goes to show how bad they are, IMO. Their caps suck, and having great growths and bad caps isn't a good combo...

[Killer Poleax]

mages/sages, priests/bishops would all be worse. Sanaki, Bastian and Oliver are the only magic users who would be better