Is Wildheart worth using?

[Mister Cold]

I see so many people speak good of Volug, at first I thought it was Wildheart, but then most say to remove it and use laguz stones (o.o)

is it really worth it to use it?

or is it better to spend tons of money on stones and stuff

[Mekkah]

What makes Volug so great after part 1 are his amazing transformed stats, but to use them you have to take off Wildheart and keep his gauge up. So yeah, get all the Olivi Grass you can. If you want to use Wildheart, I recommend combining with Resolve.

[Gamer7625]

In Part 3 I found Wildheart+Beastfoe to be a great combo.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Wildheart is ok on Volug but it limits him. I usually give it to Skrimir. He seems to be built for it.

[Narga_Rocks]

Has anybody done tests comparing exp gain (A) from wildheart to exp gain (B ) from normal transform to exp gain (C ) from not being transformed?

I'm guessing A = B, but if A > B then wildheart could actually be worth using sometimes. If 2A = C then the apparent mistake in the wording could actually be correct. I'm thinking not, though, since a level 15 untransformed laguz in part 1 probably gets more than 2 exp.

Anyway, does anybody know for sure that A = B?

Edited October 4, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Jaybee]

Just put Wildheart on Ranulf in Part 3. Now he doesn't kill, and his meter goes out at half its normal pace. Now weaker guys like Rolf can get the kill instead.

[Narga_Rocks]

Just put Wildheart on Ranulf in Part 3. Now he doesn't kill, and his meter goes out at half its normal pace. Now weaker guys like Rolf can get the kill instead.

Actually, his 36 mt already doesn't kill, and it's easier to feed kills this way than with a wildheart Ranulf. Wildheart Ranulf has 29 mt instead of 36 mt, so against a 40hp/18 def unit he'd do 36 damage normally and leave it with 4 hp (base Mist can OHKO with florete). With Wildheart, he does 22 damage and leaves it with 18 hp. A unit needs 36 mt just to get the KO (and base Mist 5RKOs).

[Jaybee]

Or at least it keeps him alive longer, so he can get more weakens in.

[Aether7]

It depends on your strategy. If you are doing a laguz only run and not spending money on weapons, then go ahead and buy the olive grass. Either way though there is a limited supply for most of the game so you want to use grass and stones conservatively. If I am using multiple laguz I will use a tag-team approach: if I am in danger of being attacked on the first turn, I might put two laguz on the front line and give them stones; two more laguz will hang back and eat a grass to start out. A couple turns later, when the gages for the front line are at halfway and the back line is at max, then I replace the front line, switching places to keep the gages at 15 or above. I use very little grass this way.

If you have just one laguz by itself or with mostly beorc (such as Volug) then wildheart would be better than constantly eating grass when there is no one to tag team with. At end game you will of course want to ditch the wildheart in favor of laguz gems and use that space for other skills.

Oh, one other thing you might not notice about wildheart. After part one when the gage decreases normally even with wildheart, you can revert and then half-shift again all in the same turn before attacking, so it is easy to keep that gage full most of the time unless you are attacked multiple times on enemy phase.

Has anybody done tests comparing exp gain (A) from wildheart to exp gain (B ) from normal transform to exp gain (C ) from not being transformed?

I'm guessing A = B, but if A > B then wildheart could actually be worth using sometimes. If 2A = C then the apparent mistake in the wording could actually be correct. I'm thinking not, though, since a level 15 untransformed laguz in part 1 probably gets more than 2 exp.

Anyway, does anybody know for sure that A = B?

I don't believe being transformed, reverted, or half-shifted has any bearing on exp. gain. -- is based on level which doesn't change between forms. I know both transformed and untransformed Nailah get 1 exp. for a kill. :lol The wording for wildheart is indeed incorrect.

[Narga_Rocks]

Has anybody done tests comparing exp gain (A) from wildheart to exp gain (B ) from normal transform to exp gain (C ) from not being transformed?

I'm guessing A = B, but if A > B then wildheart could actually be worth using sometimes. If 2A = C then the apparent mistake in the wording could actually be correct. I'm thinking not, though, since a level 15 untransformed laguz in part 1 probably gets more than 2 exp.

Anyway, does anybody know for sure that A = B?

I don't believe being transformed, reverted, or half-shifted has any bearing on exp. gain. -- is based on level which doesn't change between forms. I know both transformed and untransformed Nailah get 1 exp. for a kill. :lol The wording for wildheart is indeed incorrect.

Transformed or reverted does matter. Try using Nailah untransformed in part 4. I do it all the time to quickly get her >30 exp (HM). In part 1 she's still level 33, so untransformed she's like a 20/13 beorc, which would get no exp from what you would be facing. In part 4, she's like 20/20/20/6 transformed, and thus probably gets like 1 exp, but untransformed she is significantly underleveled in part 4, and as such gets lots. It's usually what I do to reduce the cost of bexp levels on Nailah in part 4 to try to get her to 40 AS rather than 38. Only costs her one or two turns of usefulness, usually.

[Aether7]

Transformed or reverted does matter. Try using Nailah untransformed in part 4. I do it all the time to quickly get her >30 exp (HM). In part 1 she's still level 33, so untransformed she's like a 20/13 beorc, which would get no exp from what you would be facing. In part 4, she's like 20/20/20/6 transformed, and thus probably gets like 1 exp, but untransformed she is significantly underleveled in part 4, and as such gets lots. It's usually what I do to reduce the cost of bexp levels on Nailah in part 4 to try to get her to 40 AS rather than 38. Only costs her one or two turns of usefulness, usually.

I guess I'll have to look at it more closely. Laguz levels are supposed to be mulitplied by 1.5 for exp., so a level 33 Nailah is more like a 20/20/10 beorc. Are you saying that 1.5 factor doesn't get added while untransformed? If so, then I see what your asking about wildheart -- would it get a 1.25 factor?

[Narga_Rocks]

Transformed or reverted does matter. Try using Nailah untransformed in part 4. I do it all the time to quickly get her >30 exp (HM). In part 1 she's still level 33, so untransformed she's like a 20/13 beorc, which would get no exp from what you would be facing. In part 4, she's like 20/20/20/6 transformed, and thus probably gets like 1 exp, but untransformed she is significantly underleveled in part 4, and as such gets lots. It's usually what I do to reduce the cost of bexp levels on Nailah in part 4 to try to get her to 40 AS rather than 38. Only costs her one or two turns of usefulness, usually.

I guess I'll have to look at it more closely. Laguz levels are supposed to be mulitplied by 1.5 for exp., so a level 33 Nailah is more like a 20/20/10 beorc. Are you saying that 1.5 factor doesn't get added while untransformed? If so, then I see what your asking about wildheart -- would it get a 1.25 factor?

Laguz levels are weird. 1.5x is for bexp, and that's true, I've checked. But on the field in a chapter they get multiplied by 2 if they are transformed, not 1.5. They also don't get multiplied by anything when untransformed, though there may or may not be an additional -5 penalty simply for being laguz.

I am wondering if the multiplication for wildheart is something less than 2x. The best way to test this would probably be Volug in 3-6, considering he can easily attack something while transformed, attack while halfshifted, and attack while untransformed, all against the same enemy (without killing, or all with killing) if you do two resets. Fighting transformed, of course, has to wait for turn 3.

[Aether7]

I'm on 3-10 in Hard Mode, so I can do some testing with Volug whenever I get to 3-12.

...Well I decided to try my luck with Ranulf in 3-10:

Level 26 Untransformed; damages level 16 Blade Pal for 9 exp.

Level 26 Half-shifted; damages level 16 Blade Pal for 1 exp.

Level 26 Shifted; damages level 16 Blade Pal for 1 exp.

Level 27 Half-shifted; kills level 16 Halberdier for 1 exp.

Level 27 Shifted; kills level 16 Blade Pal for 1 exp.

I guess that doesn't really prove anything. I'll have to try to get more than 1 exp. with someone else, maybe Lyre since she is level 19.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Aether7

[Kazfiel]

Well, if you have enough capacity for Wildheart, why not? However, I should only use it as a last resort...

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm on 3-10 in Hard Mode, so I can do some testing with Volug whenever I get to 3-12.

...Well I decided to try my luck with Ranulf in 3-10:

Level 26 Untransformed; damages level 16 Blade Pal for 9 exp.

Level 26 Half-shifted; damages level 16 Blade Pal for 1 exp.

Level 26 Shifted; damages level 16 Blade Pal for 1 exp.

Level 27 Half-shifted; kills level 16 Halberdier for 1 exp.

Level 27 Shifted; kills level 16 Blade Pal for 1 exp.

I guess that doesn't really prove anything. I'll have to try to get more than 1 exp. with someone else, maybe Lyre since she is level 19.

Yeah, Lyre or someone with level <20. Also a level 19 Lyre compared to some 20/18 beorc would be good.

[Aether7]

Yeah, Lyre or someone with level <20. Also a level 19 Lyre compared to some 20/18 beorc would be good.

Well I have not had much time to play recently, but did get some good test results. A mistake from before, the enemies were level 13 not 16 but that didn't make much difference.

I tried testing with Lyre, but she didn't do any damage while half-shifted. So then I used Lethe who received 1 exp. for damaging while both half-shifted and shifted; then received 3 exp. for kills both half-shifted and shifted. So it appears that the experience for using wildheart is treated the same as if fully transformed.

[Narga_Rocks]

Yeah, Lyre or someone with level <20. Also a level 19 Lyre compared to some 20/18 beorc would be good.

Well I have not had much time to play recently, but did get some good test results. A mistake from before, the enemies were level 13 not 16 but that didn't make much difference.

I tried testing with Lyre, but she didn't do any damage while half-shifted. So then I used Lethe who received 1 exp. for damaging while both half-shifted and shifted; then received 3 exp. for kills both half-shifted and shifted. So it appears that the experience for using wildheart is treated the same as if fully transformed.

Which means wildheart has no utility. Since most laguz stats are kinda bad halfshifted after part 1, its kinda useless. Janaff goes from 40 mt to 32 mt, for example, which drops some 2HKOs to 3HKOs. Actually I think it may turn some into 4HKOs. Ulki/Ranulf drop from 36 mt to 29 mt. Basically its not helpful. If it gave more exp than a fullshift I'd use it, since they can actually attack and it would help reduce the cost of bexping them to level 30 without making them completely untransformed to do it, but this is just useless.

[Aether7]

Which means wildheart has no utility. Since most laguz stats are kinda bad halfshifted after part 1, its kinda useless. Janaff goes from 40 mt to 32 mt, for example, which drops some 2HKOs to 3HKOs. Actually I think it may turn some into 4HKOs. Ulki/Ranulf drop from 36 mt to 29 mt. Basically its not helpful. If it gave more exp than a fullshift I'd use it, since they can actually attack and it would help reduce the cost of bexping them to level 30 without making them completely untransformed to do it, but this is just useless.

Not really useless. Wildheart will put your laguz on a more level playing field with your other units. You could use it to weaken enemies and give the kill to someone else, where a full shift would kill for less experience.

[Narga_Rocks]

Which means wildheart has no utility. Since most laguz stats are kinda bad halfshifted after part 1, its kinda useless. Janaff goes from 40 mt to 32 mt, for example, which drops some 2HKOs to 3HKOs. Actually I think it may turn some into 4HKOs. Ulki/Ranulf drop from 36 mt to 29 mt. Basically its not helpful. If it gave more exp than a fullshift I'd use it, since they can actually attack and it would help reduce the cost of bexping them to level 30 without making them completely untransformed to do it, but this is just useless.

Not really useless. Wildheart will put your laguz on a more level playing field with your other units. You could use it to weaken enemies and give the kill to someone else, where a full shift would kill for less experience.

Depends on your goal, though. There are situations where that kind of strategy costs turns, so if a player cares about that then it becomes useless. I suppose if that isn't something the player cares about then Wildheart becomes worth using.