What would happen if RD was like this?

[Jaybee]

Imagine if there was class changing in FE10. I'd imagine it as something like this -

Can only class change at base.

Micaiah, Sothe, Black Knight and Ike cannot class change.

You can swap to any class in your tier. So in 1-6 Tauroneo can class change from Lance General to Fire Sage, for example.

Laguz cannot class change.

Beorc cannot class change into laguz.

What sort of crazy stuff do you guys think we could do if this happened? How would this impact the game? What sort of changes would you guys make?

I'd go for...

Edward becomes a Sword Armour, mainly because it could help fix his Def problems.

Nolan stays as Fighter, then changes to a Dracoknight around 1-6.

Meg would become a Priest. Since she sucks at doing anything else. Or a Thief, so Sothe doesn't need to waste his time looting stuff when he'd prefer using his Beast Killer/stealing other stuff. Or she could be an Archer/Bow Knight.

Leo becomes a Bow Knight

Ilyana stays as Thunder Sage, then once she can buy Fire/Wind tomes, she reclasses to Fire/Wind Mage.

Gatrie would become a Dragonmaster, then become a Dracolord after promotion and kick ass forever.

Tauroneo becomes either a healer (12 mag is nothing to augh at while a GENERAL) or a Sage. Or Dragonmaster.

Rhys would become a Sage.

Brom goes Warrior.

Tormod becomes a Bishop so he actually has something to do in 4-4.

Volke to SM. Sure, being an Assassin is nice, but when you're limited to having Baselard as your SS weapon, and worse caps then those of SMs, you think about changing classes.

Boyd becomes an Axe General.

I'd put other, stuff, but I'm too lazy to.

[Candlejack]

Bah! Bah, I say! Otherwise, some characters would be terrible overpowered! Why, we'd have dear GATRIE as a Dracoknight! That would rape the game!

[Jaybee]

Bah! Bah, I say! Otherwise, some characters would be terrible overpowered! Why, we'd have dear GATRIE as a Dracoknight! That would rape the game!

Then we'll just create H5 in this game too. H1 to H5, actually.

A good enough challenge for you now?

[Icon of Sin]

Swordmaster Oscar would be pretty interesting. Earth affinity + that speed...

Tormod could also easily change to a class that fits his strength growth better. Warrior wouldn't be too bad for him I'd say.

[Florete]

Gatrie would become a Dragonmaster, then become a Dracolord after promotion and kick ass forever.

Best character in the game there.

Volke to SM. Sure, being an Assassin is nice, but when you're limited to having Baselard as your SS weapon, and worse caps then those of SMs, you think about changing classes.

Wut? Assassin caps are all better than SM caps.

Assassin to SM (M): -5 Mag, -5 Lck, +4 Def, +1 Res

Assassin to SM (F): +5 HP, +1 Str, -5 Mag, -10 Lck, +5 Def, -1 Res

The female version is likely irrelevant since class changing does not constitute gender-swapping, but I don't think a bit of Lck and Mag will make a huge difference...And then Assassin has more crit (+5 innate as well as Baselard's 15 to Alondite and Vague Katti's 5) and of course, cooler animations.

My ideas:

Meg -> Pegasus Knight or Myrmidon to take advantage os the Spd growth.

Nephenee -> Swordmaster for the same reason, and also to take advantage of the Skl growth for more crit.

Titania -> Bow Paladin to somewhat avert the bad defensive growths and give her a better Spd cap and SS weapon.

Oscar - > Swordmaster, 'nuff said.

Shinon -> Hell, he'd also make a good Swordmaster. His growths are all around kinda weird and don't seem to fit any class archetype (Fast + good Def), though he might make a good Warrior.

Mist -> Whatever promotes into a Queen. Basically, let her fly with staves. Or Fire Sage.

[Defeatist Elitist]

General Soren. You know you want it!

[Jaybee]

General Soren. You know you want it!

Either this or General Mist.

Better yet, General Laura. Or Dancer Oliver.

[Candlejack]

Me? A Dancer! HAH! Perish the thought!

Perhaps, with my overkill Strength, I could become a suitable Seraph Knight! But what sort of Pegasus would be required for one with such magnificence as I?

Oh, and there is also Bow Paladin Shinon to worry about...

[Jaybee]

Heh heh...

Would Dragonmaster Gatrie really break the game more than Haar did?

[Florete]

Heh heh...

Would Dragonmaster Gatrie really break the game more than Haar did?

It's like replacing overkill Skl with Spd, and then adding some Res. So yeah.

[Jaybee]

But would the d00d really be better than Reyson?

[Oujay]

But what sort of Pegasus would be required for one with such magnificence as I?

what sort of pegasus could hold you?

Edited October 12, 2009 by Oujay

[CrashGordon94]

Fire Sage!Soren and Warrior!Gatrie plz.

That would be downright awesome! :D

[Jaybee]

Fire Sage!Soren and Warrior!Gatrie plz.

That would be downright awesome! :D

Yeah, Warrior Gatrie would be great. Too bad that Dragonmasters beat them in almost every stat.

And Fire Sage Soren is barely a change from Wind Sage Soren <_<

[Mikethfc]

If mist could use anima magic she would be so much better

[Rewjeo]

Sothe would love to change classes to escape his awful part 4 performance. He'd have a 70% strength growth as a warrior. His speed growth would drop to 30%, though. He'd only have ~26 speed at 20/1 but he would have 36 strength at 20/0 if not for caps. He'd cap strength at about level 12. After that he could switch to Rogue. He'd lose 8 strength and axes, though, so his damage output would become a lot worse. 32 Strength and 26 Speed at 20/1 means -5 speed but +8 strength as a Reaver compared to his averages. That's what Boyd has at the same level. It wouldn't make Sothe amazing, but it's better than how he's doing now. Even if he went from doubling to not doubling, that 8 strength and axes probably mean that he's doing more damage than he was before. Like, 16, instead of double 2's. And then he has Colossus instead of Bane.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Slize

[Narga_Rocks]

Gatrie would become a Dragonmaster, then become a Dracolord after promotion and kick ass forever.

Best character in the game there.

It's strange, bases:

Lance General 35 18 5 17 16 13 20 10

Dragonmaster_ 35 20 2 18 16 _8 19 5

So Gatrie's bases would:

+2 str, -3 mag, +1 skl, -5 lck, -1 def, -5 res

Making:

44 hp, 27 str, 2 mag, 19 skill, 20 speed, 10 luck, 23 def, 6 res.

Growths:

Gatrie's ______ 50 60 5 45 60 30 60 35

Lance Ganeral 55 40 45 30 25 40 50 50

Dragonmaster_ 60 35 5 30 30 50 25 30

Resulting in:

55% hp, 55% str, -40% mag, 45% skill, 65% spd, 40% luck, 35% def, 15% res.

I suppose he's got more speed than Haar and he's only 2 str from caps and then in tier 3 he's just 7 away so around 20/14 or 20/15 he'll cap str, but def goes down quite a bit. Still, I guess the added speed is nice, only trouble is less def and somehow manages to have less res and luck. He has to stay further away from thunder sages, but otherwise he's probably better than Haar on the speed alone. On the other hand, there is now no real reason to give him a speedwing, unlike with Haar, so he has to go 6 or so levels to get to 24 speed anyway, and 22 speed happens later than with Haar, and there is also not a great reason for the early crowning Gatrie receives.

I suppose Top Tier is easily assured now, although flight utility becomes less impressive if everyone can have it.

My ideas:

Oscar - > Swordmaster, 'nuff said.

bases:

Lance Paladin 34 17 5 15 17 10 15 10

Sword Master 30 15 6 20 21 11 13 10

So Oscar's bases would:

-4 hp, -2 str, +1 mag, +5 skill, +4 speed, +1 luck, -2 def

Making:

34 hp, 18 str, 8 mag, 27 skill, 26 speed, 19 luck, 15 def, 13 res.

So his bases are fine. Aside from speed his bases are either tied with Mia's or better, though he is still 5 levels higher.

Growths:

Oscar's______ 50 35 20 65 60 55 30 20

Lance Paladin 45 30 40 35 25 55 40 20

Swordmaster__ 50 35 35 40 35 50 40 15

Resulting in:

55% hp, 40% str, 15% mag, 70% skill, 70% spd, 50% luck, 30% def, 15% res.

Considering he's at a higher level than she is and only has +1 str and +2 def and +1 luck to show for it, and she has +.15 for hp growth and +.05 for str growth and +.10 for def growth, it's hard to say who is better (he has earth, she needs to support with earth, but Oscar probably still needs to support with fire/water/dark anyway), but Oscar > Zihark statistically seems assured. Well, maybe not. +1 str and +.05 growth vs. 9 more levels to grow? He does have +2 def and +.05 growth, though.

Oscar, at least, should be able to cap luck, though. By 20/15, I think.

Shinon -> Hell, he'd also make a good Swordmaster. His growths are all around kinda weird and don't seem to fit any class archetype (Fast + good Def), though he might make a good Warrior.

Without looking too much at class bases and growths, with Reaver's higher def cap it might be better than Swordmaster for him. Also, Warrior's higher str growth (50 over 35) means a stronger Shinon. I suppose his 40% str growth is better on a swordmaster than on a sniper, though, and he'll keep that, even though his str base drops by 3.

Sothe would love to change classes to escape his awful part 4 performance. He'd have a 70% strength growth as a warrior. His speed growth would drop to 30%, though. He'd only have ~26 speed at 20/1 but he would have 36 strength at 20/0 if not for caps. He'd cap strength at about level 12. After that he could switch to Rogue. He'd lose 8 strength and axes, though, so his damage output would become a lot worse. 32 Strength and 26 Speed at 20/1 means -5 speed but +8 strength as a Reaver compared to his averages. That's what Boyd has at the same level. It wouldn't make Sothe amazing, but it's better than how he's doing now. Even if he went from doubling to not doubling, that 8 strength and axes probably mean that he's doing more damage than he was before. Like, 16, instead of double 2's. And then he has Colossus instead of Bane.

What's with this double 2's business? When is Sothe ever doing that? Even an 8/1 Sothe with a silver dagger (peshkatz has more mt) has 36 mt. That's 4x2 to 6x2 against the generals (30 to 32 def). With SS and Baselard he has 42 mt. An 8/1 Sothe. That's already doing 10x2 or 12x2 against generals, and 4x2 against the strongest Red Dragons. Assuming you actually let him level in third tier, with his str growth he should be able to pull 44 mt by the dragons anyway, or even a little more. Also, bump it up with supports. Anyway, 44 mt means 12 damage to a red dragon. Ike with a wyrmslayer and max str has 70 mt. To a 76hp/38def dragon that means 64 damage. How many hp are remaining? That's right, 12.

Anyway, the point is since a lot of your characters are relying on proc rates to KO things anyway, it's not bad having a guy that can finish off the other units' kills anyway (it just means he's not as good as they are, since they are doing more. That doesn't make it "awful"). If you have 7 units mostly relying on procing something, the chances of not having something for both Sothe and Sanaki to KO because they are the only units not activated aren't bad.

Even if we accept your double 2s business, 8 more str and 4 more from Urvan vs. Baselard is only 14 damage. And my 12x2 compared to Urvan and 8 more str is 24 damage. Only difference is enemies with 13 to 24 hp don't get a counter in. Which is a good advantage. Not to mention the whole more competition for Urvan than for Baselard thing.

[Paperblade]

I assume class changing to enemy only classes such as "imba"ndit is out of the question, as well as changing out of classes with 0s for growths (such as Trueblade, "personal" classes such as Queen, Hero, etc.), and assuming it works like FEDS that you can have total number recruitable + 1 of a given class and Luck doesn't change.

Would Dragonmaster Gatrie really break the game more than Haar did?

I'm not sure. Dragonmaster has a wtf 25 Defense growth, so Gatrie would drop to like 35% Defense. But then again, Gatrie would double everything in sight and not fear mages, and do it with 9 move flying.

Meg as a Pegasus Knight would be a total waste. Assuming class change worked like FEDS, she would go from 21HP/10 Defense to 15HP/4 Defense, meaning Cats leave her at 1HP. Peg Knight is pretty much completely inferior to Dracoknight anyway, especially since the units in consideration are female, and Female Dragonlord is baller. >_>

My DB team would probably look something like

Micky and Volug stay the same.

-Sothe could switch to like Sniper or something for Part 3. Rogue growths are really good though so he might still end up bad, since its got such a good Speed growth and his Speed is already only like 45%. Maybe Bishop for healing.

-Axe Armor!Nolan. He'd get up to like 75% Speed growth. Yeah, owned. I figure by the time we get to 1-4 to class change he'll be like Level 12 or so. 16 Defense means he's taking double 2s from Cats (rofl), god help you if he has a Defense support. Only concern is his 8 Speed is doubled by the faster Tigers plus Agony, although that's still only like double 10s vs. his 30HP. With a +Def support and Tarvos, he'd have 26 Defense at 20/1 along with 37HP. Tigers are barely 3HKOing. Cats are doubling but the 27 ones don't do crap, and 29 isn't much better.

-Fire Mage Laura. Growths don't change much, but the ability to put her into a class that gains EXP at a reasonable pace and can abuse her WTFgrowths (seriously, have you looked at them? She's like the magic using Edward) is just too good to pass up. Fire is the strongest magic type other than rofldark and has effective bonus vs. Beast Laguz, giving her god offense in 1-4, 3-6, and 3-13. Forged Fire = Thanibomb on Laguz.

-Priest!Leo. Pretty much anyone can be the Priest, but he has Water affinity, which is :3

-Zihark can stay as an SM. Switch to Sword General when Part 3 rolls around for +5HP/+8 Defense at the cost of 4 Speed (oh noez, he's still doubling Tigers!). Growths don't change much (+5 HP, +5 Str, -5 Skl, -10 Spd, +5 Def, +25 Res). At level 6, he has like 36.7HP/21 Speed/22 Defense as a Sword General, He's like 6-10HKO'd by Cats and 3HKO'd by 39 attack Tigers (ie a vast majority of them), and is left with 0.7HP after the 41 attack ones. Oh yeah, and he only lost 8 Avoid, so they're still only landing attacks less than half the time. He could be Sword General in Part 1 if you really don't care about mobility. Switch back to SM for Part 4 godstomp. Yeah, that's right kids, we took the only part of the game where Zihark is even arguably weak and made him godstomp it beneath his heels.

-Archer!Aran. For Double Bow and Beastfoe lulz in Part 3 (since he can still tank). I really wanted a Thunder affinity and Jill's Str was looking unsalvageable. >_>

Now I really want to play through the DB chapters with this team, because I'm pretty sure that I just kicked its ass, what with having armors that don't suck and Fire magic for the chapters with Laguz. >_>

Part 2 who cares, most of the bad units are already in bad classes.

-Heather could probably afford to switch to some other class and still be fast enough to double most things (despite losing like 3 Speed and like 15-20% growth), but her Strength really sucks and Rogue's growths are high enough that that's not really being fixed.

-Brom's too slow to get better, unfortunately.

-Neph really can't afford to change classes. Changing to SM drops her Str to a laughable 13 base. Additionally, Halb Defense growth is 55%, so changing to a non-General class drops her to like 20% Defense, which is just pathetic. She could go General, I guess.

-Haar could change to anything else and jump to like 90% Defense growth thanks to Dragonmaster's retarded growth. It ties Sages, for the love of god. Unfortunately, Dragonmaster Str/Def bases are really good, so he wouldn't be very good without flyer monopoly. And his Speed would still kinda suck.

-CRKs might be salvageable in classes that don't suck, but I'm too lazy to check units other than Kieran, but his 30% speed growth fucks him since he's gaining like 10% at best.

Part 3

-Warrior!Shinon. Shinon would have 22 Str, 24 Spd, and 19 Defense, start out with capped Skill (fuck yeah BEXP). Oh yeah, and 60% Str, 75% Spd (wtfux), and 50% Defense. Pretty much the epitome of imba. Pretty much Ike if he had double the Speed and Axes.

-Gatrie to any non-General physical class. Pick one, it doesn't matter which.

-SM!Oscar. 18 Str, 40% growth. 26 Speed, 70% growth.

-SM!Titania. 22 Str and 26 Speed bases. 65% and 60% growths.

-Dunno what to do with Mia. I guess she can stay SM and be outclassed, or go a flyer class or something, but SM Defense growth is too good so she'll probably be really frail without levels as a General or something. Actually, maybe go Sniper since Aran's not fast enough to Double Bow. >_>

Edit: Actually, Aran could probably be a Priest and Leo could be dropped...

Edited October 12, 2009 by Paperblade

[Candlejack]

I'd make everyone a Dragon Knight because that class is awesome.

[NinjaMonkey]

I'd change all the Pegasus Knight units (except Elincia) to Dracoknights (which'll take care of their debilitating weakness to arrows).

And Sothe would be a Bishop (which would mean I'd actually use him after 1-5 ends).

I'd keep everyone else as they are, though.

[Jaybee]

I'd change all the Pegasus Knight units (except Elincia) to Dracoknights (which'll take care of their debilitating weakness to arrows).

And Sothe would be a Bishop (which would mean I'd actually use him after 1-5 ends).

I'd keep everyone else as they are, though.

Might work, though then they'd have awkward stats.

I did say Sothe couldn't class change. It's so that his Whisper promo goes smoothly.

[Paperblade]

I did say Sothe couldn't class change. It's so that his Whisper promo goes smoothly.

Not like options other than Bishop were any good.

Also, apparently Fire isn't buyable until 1-8. In that case, just make Laura a Thunder Mage to pass the time I guess. It's got more Speed growth anyway. The loss of 1-4 aizenstomp is saddening, but not life threatening.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Paperblade

[Jaybee]

I assume class changing to enemy only classes such as "imba"ndit is out of the question, as well as changing out of classes with 0s for growths (such as Trueblade, "personal" classes such as Queen, Hero, etc.), and assuming it works like FEDS that you can have total number recruitable + 1 of a given class and Luck doesn't change.

This, but a few changes:

The Anima Mages are considered as 1 group. So in 1-4 you can have 2 Mages at most. Same goes for the Anima Sages.

Lance & Bow Knights are in 1 group, as are Sword and Axe Knights. Same goes for their Paladin forms.

Armors are classified as 1 group, e.g. only 2 armors in 1-4, 2 generals in 1-6, etc.

If a character is absent for that chapter, you can still class change into that class (So in 1-8, for example, you can have Zihark and Promoted Nolan as Generals)

Remind me if I missed out on anything.

[Paperblade]

I assume class changing to enemy only classes such as "imba"ndit is out of the question, as well as changing out of classes with 0s for growths (such as Trueblade, "personal" classes such as Queen, Hero, etc.), and assuming it works like FEDS that you can have total number recruitable + 1 of a given class and Luck doesn't change.

This, but a few changes:

The Anima Mages are considered as 1 group. So in 1-4 you can have 2 Mages at most. Same goes for the Anima Sages.

Lance & Bow Knights are in 1 group, as are Sword and Axe Knights. Same goes for their Paladin forms.

Armors are classified as 1 group, e.g. only 2 armors in 1-4, 2 generals in 1-6, etc.

If a character is absent for that chapter, you can still class change into that class (So in 1-8, for example, you can have Zihark and Promoted Nolan as Generals)

Remind me if I missed out on anything.

Ah, okay. I was already assuming the fourth part since I was using Ed, Zi, Lucia, and Nolan to mass SMs and Warriors for the GMs, and I don't think the first 3 mess with anything I had.

[Candlejack]

Aran would make a good Lance Knight, IMO. Would fix his shoddy SPD.

Laura would be an awesome Cleric. +5 STR on promotion, combining her unusually high STR averages for a HEALER. Plus, Horse and access to Light Magic. Also gets a considerably better Mastery Skill.

Edward would be an Armor Sword. Since he'll suck at anything else other than Healer, but anyone can be a Healer.