Hetzel

[BK-201]

On the chapter with Oliver's mansion, Tormod, Ike's team has Hetzel on the map. Unlike Lekain from a previous map he does not hang around and wait to be killed. Immediately after you end your turn he warps away. Although it may seem like and impossible task there may actually be a way to do this. My friend suggested a method involving Tormod as he starts higher, rescue, boss abuse, and luck, lots of it. Keeping celerity on Tormod and giving him pass allows him to move quickly and efficiently through enemies. Boss abuse meaning weapon ranks and level till he promotes and has good stats. Having Tormod goes as deep as he can keeping in mind this is a suicidal move he can now rescue Rafiel with the stave. Rafiel can then in turn vigor Tormod allowing him to attack Hetzel with meteor. Now is the part that requires most luck. Tormod must activate flare. Coupled with a decently powered Tormod this should be enough to finsih him but a double attack is nice. (Battle Save Before)

So the question remains is this possible and has anyone done it?

[Paperblade]

I'm pretty sure that you can't Flare with siege tomes.

[Treasure Chest]

Seems like an awful lot of effort for something so trivial.

[BK-201]

0.o it's just something to waste time. If this is trivial then so are Vykan's quick turn maps in which many items are skimmed. This is just a possible experiment.

Personally, I think the quick one-turn, etc maps require a lot of thinking and so would doing this.

I'm not sure about flaring with longer range tomes, can anyone check for me?

Edited November 8, 2009 by BlackKnight666

[Zkirsche]

He doesn't have to flare. Tormod with 37 mag or more + an 'A' support with Muarim can 4HKO Hetzel with Meteor. This means that by doubling, Tormod can kill Hetzel in one turn. This doesn't even require you to use his full mov. Instead of Tormod moving up, he can do it by moving to the left and having Rafiel climb up the ledge to refresh him.

Of course, 37 Mag for Tormod would require some serious RNG blessing. Soren/Ilyana can also do it, provided they have an 'A' with an Atk affinity, 37 mag or more and meteor.

Edited November 8, 2009 by kirsche

[Rewjeo]

If you did kill him, I think that he'd probably just say what he says before he disappears and then warp away. That's what Lekain does if you kill him in 4-3.

[BK-201]

Well Lekain hangs around for quite a while. Yes tormod will have to be seriously blessed and I'm not sure if Soren and Illyana have the movement and weapon to do it as it requires a long range tome. The death quote for Hetzel here was probably not meant to be just like the BK's death quote within part one. I have checked but I'm still a little unsure but only Tormod can do this. Also how is he going to get an A support with Muarium in 3 chapters?

Maybe he will have a similar death quote to Lekain in the previous chapter.

Kirsche you said 4 HKO. One round has a maximum of 2 hits excluding braves so that won't kill him. Hetzel simply has way too much RES. I don't think you have enough move with Rafiel for a follow up attack. I am pretty sure Tormod has to move a lot closer than his base move + 2. So Flare is going to be the only way.

Edited November 9, 2009 by BlackKnight666

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm pretty sure that you can't Flare with siege tomes.

I don't know about that in RD. I didn't try enough (it may or may not have happened, I just don't remember). I'm pretty certain it could be done in PoR, though, since I distinctly remember Ilyana pulling it off from afar (I honestly couldn't pick who else to give an occult. There just wasn't any point).

Well Lekain hangs around for quite a while. Yes tormod will have to be seriously blessed and I'm not sure if Soren and Illyana have the movement and weapon to do it as it requires a long range tome. The death quote for Hetzel here was probably not meant to be just like the BK's death quote within part one. I have checked but I'm still a little unsure but only Tormod can do this. Also how is he going to get an A support with Muarium in 3 chapters?

Maybe he will have a similar death quote to Lekain in the previous chapter.

Kirsche you said 4 HKO. One round has a maximum of 2 hits excluding braves so that won't kill him. Hetzel simply has way too much RES. I don't think you have enough move with Rafiel for a follow up attack. I am pretty sure Tormod has to move a lot closer than his base move + 2. So Flare is going to be the only way.

If you pick up Rafiel he can no longer vigor that turn. Even if you pick him up before he does anything and have someone drop him, it won't work. Also, I think Kirsche was assuming Tormod attacks, Rafiel vigors, Tormod attacks again. Hence, 4HKO kills.

Also, if you are abusing anyway it is quite easy to pull an A in 3 chapters with Muarim. Assuming you are on NM (or HM works like NM for support levels), it takes 10 adjacents for Muarim and Tormod in 1-7 to pull a C for 1-8. 7 adjacents in 1-8 for a B in 1-E. 7 adjacents in 1-E for an A in 4-4. Use more adjacents and you can pull a support between Tormod and Leo if you wanted and then Tormod would get a +3 instead of a +2 for mt. And by more I mean like 17 in 1-7 and 12 in each of 1-8 and 1-E. So 7 more, 5 more, 5 more.

[Jaybee]

Are Hetzel's 4-4 stats the same as his 4-E-1 stats?

[BK-201]

I dunno about his stats.

If you pick up Rafiel he can no longer vigor that turn. Even if you pick him up before he does anything and have someone drop him, it won't work. Also, I think Kirsche was assuming Tormod attacks, Rafiel vigors, Tormod attacks again. Hence, 4HKO kills.

I'm refering to the rescue stave that teleports ally to you. The 4HKO Kirsche referred to I think is impossible as Rafiel and Tormod do not have enough movement.

Tormod will need pass and celerity and even then he won't be able to hence the rescue stave.

[Narga_Rocks]

I dunno about his stats.

If you pick up Rafiel he can no longer vigor that turn. Even if you pick him up before he does anything and have someone drop him, it won't work. Also, I think Kirsche was assuming Tormod attacks, Rafiel vigors, Tormod attacks again. Hence, 4HKO kills.

I'm refering to the rescue stave that teleports ally to you. The 4HKO Kirsche referred to I think is impossible as Rafiel and Tormod do not have enough movement.

Tormod will need pass and celerity and even then he won't be able to hence the rescue stave.

I get it now. That's a lot of abuse and healing you need to do in part 1. Or maybe Arms Scrolls. Like, 4. Oh well. I suppose some shoving of Rafiel to get him futher up so Tormod can go as far as possible and not be more than 15 squares away (the game caps mag/2 things at 15, or at least it does with physic). But yeah, this way you need to have Tormod able to ORKO.

I think flare can activate at 3-10 range, but maybe not in RD.

[NinjaMonkey]

Doesn't Hetzel appear and disappear during a cut-scene? Which would mean that you couldn't attack him if you wanted to.

Or does this only happen on Normal/Hard modes?

[BK-201]

Hetzel stays on your phase dissapears on enemy. Shoving Rafiel will not work as you must go up ledges and he's not exactly super mobile.

[Cysx]

If I'm not mistaken,Hetzel is 23 squares away from Tormod's starting position,and he can attack him with common magic once he's traveled 22 squares.It seems perfectly doable to me...

If you can manage his item(which should be possible as you planned to give him the rescue staff),just give him the boots(so he now has 10 move)and shove him twice.Then you can apply your strategy of rescuing Rafiel so he can move again,and attack Hetzel(possibly with the Rexflame,but I don't know how much magic he'd need to OR him;shouldn't be that much,tough)

OR you can shove him 6 times.With the right units this may be possible.You already have Ike,Nailah,Vika and Muarim...if you add the two hawk laguz with wildheart(or even just Mordecai,or anyone you'd have given the smite skill to),this should work as well.

Am I missing something?

Edit:Btw,Flare does NOT work on ranged tomes,I'm almost sure of it.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Cysx

[Allan's Aokage]

Could also crown him for some extra Movement if you really need it.

You also have to give him Pass, I think.

[Cysx]

Could also crown him for some extra Movement if you really need it.

You also have to give him Pass, I think.

Well,I don't recall mages getting more movement on their second promotion,but he sould be crowned anyway,as I don't think he could one round Hetzel with sages caps,or without flare: /

And the TC already mentionned giving him pass,so I didn't,but it's pretty obvious;)

Guess I'll try this myself;I'm curious:p

Edited November 19, 2009 by Cysx

[Tables]

I'm thinking, since you get two pass scrolls and have three uses of rescue, how does the following sound?

Tormod runs as far as possible and rescues (2/3) Mist.

Mist trades for the rescue and rescues Raphiel (1/3). Mist then cantos to be diagonal to Tormod

Muarim runs up to be in Raphiel's vigor range.

Raphiel vigors Mist + Tormod

Mist runs as far as possible and rescues Muarim

Muarim runs in and attacks and ORKO's Hetzel.

I can't work out exactly if it's possible, but it seems like it needs less abuse than methods suggested here (Muarim only needs 3 SPD, although Tormod needs to promote and get A staves like every other method. Mist also needs to promote). One thing is, Mist has to get past the enemies at the entrance to Oliver's room, to warp Muarim in, which might not be possible considering she (annoyingly) loses 2 movement.

[Rewjeo]

Pass skill.

[Cysx]

Took longer than expected.The game is fairly long even on easy mode...<_<

Anyway...Here are the results.

He was one space further from what I thought,and if you shove Tormod on three spaces only,he won't be able to pass trough the ennemies just after the stairs.So you need to shove him on four,at least,and that's with the boots used on him.

Aside from that,what we planned worked perfectly,tough at least one Flare activation was needed,even at max magic and with the Rexfire.

So,the Hetzel you can see in this mission is basically the original(same stats and skin),but treated as a generic bishop ennemy.No boss conversation or death line.He doesn't react at all if you don't OR him,and if he dies,the dialog with Oliver still happens,though even if you see Hetzel's face,he can't be seen as a unit,and Oliver doesn't look at where he was.There's no teleportation afterward either.

By the way,I tried killing Oliver instead,and if you do,there's no conversation.Hetzel just teleports away.

Just in case,I guess it could be interesting to kill both of them on the first turn,but I don't really see how that could be done...And I guess nothing would happen anyway.

If for some reason someone else wants to try this,don't forget to send all the arms scroll you get from the two other groups in your storage.I needed 5 of them,and that's 6 if you didn't get Tormod's Fire WR to S in part 1(Even though you don't really need to use the Rexflame,actually).

Edit:For those who wonder,I went trough this chapter and the next one,and Hetzel still appears in 4E-1.So all of this was totally useless...but at least you have your answer.

And in fact,I even got rewarded with the sight of Tormod destroying Oliver,with two criticals in a row,using...the rescue staff.

So that was worth it indeed:p

Edited November 27, 2009 by Cysx

[Zkirsche]

He may not be super mobile, but shoving him will work. He only needs to be a space below the ledge for it to work IIRC.

[Tatsumaki]

Wait, I thought that this was the "Let's Shit on Hetzel" topic.

It's not.

[BK-201]

Took longer than expected.The game is fairly long even on easy mode...<_<

Anyway...Here are the results.

He was one space further from what I thought,and if you shove Tormod on three spaces only,he won't be able to pass trough the ennemies just after the stairs.So you need to shove him on four,at least,and that's with the boots used on him.

Aside from that,what we planned worked perfectly,tough at least one Flare activation was needed,even at max magic and with the Rexfire.

So,the Hetzel you can see in this mission is basically the original(same stats and skin),but treated as a generic bishop ennemy.No boss conversation or death line.He doesn't react at all if you don't OR him,and if he dies,the dialog with Oliver still happens,though even if you see Hetzel's face,he can't be seen as a unit,and Oliver doesn't look at where he was.There's no teleportation afterward either.

By the way,I tried killing Oliver instead,and if you do,there's no conversation.Hetzel just teleports away.

Just in case,I guess it could be interesting to kill both of them on the first turn,but I don't really see how that could be done...And I guess nothing would happen anyway.

If for some reason someone else wants to try this,don't forget to send all the arms scroll you get from the two other groups in your storage.I needed 5 of them,and that's 6 if you didn't get Tormod's Fire WR to S in part 1(Even though you don't really need to use the Rexflame,actually).

Edit:For those who wonder,I went trough this chapter and the next one,and Hetzel still appears in 4E-1.So all of this was totally useless...but at least you have your answer.

And in fact,I even got rewarded with the sight of Tormod destroying Oliver,with two criticals in a row,using...the rescue staff.

So that was worth it indeed:p

Pure win here.

[Original Alear]

Took longer than expected.The game is fairly long even on easy mode...<_<

Anyway...Here are the results.

He was one space further from what I thought,and if you shove Tormod on three spaces only,he won't be able to pass trough the ennemies just after the stairs.So you need to shove him on four,at least,and that's with the boots used on him.

Aside from that,what we planned worked perfectly,tough at least one Flare activation was needed,even at max magic and with the Rexfire.

So,the Hetzel you can see in this mission is basically the original(same stats and skin),but treated as a generic bishop ennemy.No boss conversation or death line.He doesn't react at all if you don't OR him,and if he dies,the dialog with Oliver still happens,though even if you see Hetzel's face,he can't be seen as a unit,and Oliver doesn't look at where he was.There's no teleportation afterward either.

By the way,I tried killing Oliver instead,and if you do,there's no conversation.Hetzel just teleports away.

Just in case,I guess it could be interesting to kill both of them on the first turn,but I don't really see how that could be done...And I guess nothing would happen anyway.

If for some reason someone else wants to try this,don't forget to send all the arms scroll you get from the two other groups in your storage.I needed 5 of them,and that's 6 if you didn't get Tormod's Fire WR to S in part 1(Even though you don't really need to use the Rexflame,actually).

Edit:For those who wonder,I went trough this chapter and the next one,and Hetzel still appears in 4E-1.So all of this was totally useless...but at least you have your answer.

And in fact,I even got rewarded with the sight of Tormod destroying Oliver,with two criticals in a row,using...the rescue staff.

So that was worth it indeed:p

I wish there was rep, because this post deserves it.

[BK-201]

Now try killing Hetzel and stealing his staff. It can be done on easy mode based off calculations. Requires long range tome to disarm. As far as I know it can't be done on normal or hard mode.

[Cysx]

I wish there was rep, because this post deserves it.

Well,thank you:)

Don't know if you'll still say that after reading this one,though: /

Now try killing Hetzel and stealing his staff. It can be done on easy mode based off calculations. Requires long range tome to disarm. As far as I know it can't be done on normal or hard mode.

Provided this is actually possible,I don't really see why you'd want to do that.I can't clearly recall his inventory,but from his battle skin I'm pretty sure he's equipped with a regular "heal" staff.I don't think he has any other staff on him either.And I've more or less proven that this Hetzel and 4E1's one are two different and unrelated characters.

Anyway...You'd need two units able to go all the way to Hetzel(thief and killing unit),and another one that can pass trough the first set of ennemies to attack him with a ranged tome and activate one of the most unreliable skills of the game on a type of attack which we don't even know if it can activate on.

Actually,I had adept activate once on a ranged tome with Soren.But.He was attacking another playable character(Pelleas),it's an inate skill,and I can say that not all skills work on ranged tomes,as I had 4 sages with blessed ranged tomes on hard mode without royals(that means lots of retrys and altogether maybe even more than one hundred uses,without ANY flare/coronna activation.No other adept activation for Soren either,btw,as he was one of those four).

All this doesn't prove anything,but there's a large probability that:

-For some reason,skills activate by attacking playable characters only,

-There's a very large reduction on skill activation rate on ranged tomes,

-Skills with direct effects on the opponent cannot activate with ranged tomes,

-You need the skill to be innate for it to activate.

Pick your choice.But if any of these is true,your idea is basically not doable(for most of them anyway;that's just extremely unlikely to work for the reduced activation rate).And I could also mention that you only have two pass scrolls anyway,that Heather will never have enough move to get to Hetzel if you need to teleport Rafiel(or to Rafiel,if you do teleport him;you can't shove your units up ledges),and that Tormod basically can't be the teleporting,killing and disarming unit at the same time,even with 100 move.

Your idea requires ressources that the game just does not give you.

The only way to do that would be hacking,I guess.But actually,I don't even understand why anyone would want to try,even if they hacked their game;but I must be missing something.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Cysx