Progenitus Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Hello everyone, and welcome to FE Debating 101; debating for newbies. Here I will teach you how to debate like a pro, without actually needing the necessary intelligence or logic of one. Follow these steps and you'll be able to weasel make your way to the top in no time! Disclaimer: These tips may or may not help you in an actual debate with real judges. Without further ado, here are today's lessons. I will teach you two key points on how to win arguments, and briefly go over how to achieve said points. 1) Getting the last word wins you half the argument. Getting the last word lets you rub it in your opponent's face that you are, in effect, waiting for the other person to counter. If your opponent gives up and stops posting, that means he concedes the argument, even if his logic was better than yours. Here are some pointers on how to accomplish this and make your opponent give up... I) Never give up. Never compromise. It does not matter how badly you countered his posts, or even if you responded to only 1% of his argument. Nitpick something if you have to. Point out something minor in your opponent's post. If nothing else, POST SOMETHING, ANYTHING, like "I am right and you are wrong" "also cocks". There's a corollary to this though... Ia) It's alright to give up small arguments. Arguments or points that only last for a post or two or consist of only short posts are fine to give up. They are minor arguments. You can't win every argument, so lose the small wins and win the big ones. As they say, lose the battle, win the war. II) Make sure you are committed to winning this argument. These wars of attrition will consume a lot of time. Make sure that you will always be able to follow up to your opponent's post. III) Enter the argument with a closed mind. If you enter a debate open minded, you may potentially fall for your opponent's arguments. Do not fall into that trap! You must enter every argument thinking you are right and your opponent is wrong. However, simply getting the last word isn't going to win you the argument. Oh no. See the next point... 2) Making friends with the other people wins you the other half of the argument. Debates will almost always have bystanders. What you want to do is also to convince the bystanders that you won (if the other debater is following these simple rules, he will never give up or compromise, so there would be no way to convince him). If you got the last word, but the other debaters agree with the other person, that's not a victory at all. So you'll need those debaters to be on your side. But, if you lack the logic or intelligence to woo them over, here are some pointers on how to get them on your side... I) Pad your posts with flowery language. That's right folks, if you were bad in English, it's time to hit the dictionaries and books! If that's too hard, then just watch politicians. Eloquent words, devoid of content. And they have plenty of followers. The reason why you want to have such a strong grasp on language is it gives the impression that you're smart. "Hey look at that man, wow he sounds very smart!" It will immediately give people a good first impression. You could, in fact, make a post entirely of flames, but if you have flowery language, people will laugh with you rather than jump at you for flaming the other person to hell. 90% of the debaters are here for lulz, not for logic. II) Make your posts as long as possible. 90% of the debaters here are too lazy to read more than one or two paragraphs. This is why many only respond to one or two paragraphs of a long post (whether or not they're trying to get the last word or simply nitpicking depends on the situation). Making a tl;dr will make people simply skim over your post, and if they don't see anything very wrong with it they'll immediately assume that either you're right or you're very intelligent, generally both. And there you have it! Follow these easy steps and you'll be a respected "debater" in no time. Class is dismissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I demand popcorn to eat due to the potential entertainment this thread will provide, but it seems that I am not entitled to such resources regardless of the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) That's why I keep a stock of unpopped popcorn on hand for troll/joke topics on any forum I go to. Unfortunately, we have yet to master the art of teleportation, so that doesn't help you at all. Edited November 11, 2009 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 This is a great thread. May I suggest a third lesson? I think that you should make lesson #3 a guide on what to do as a contingency plan in case all else fails, when you lose the debate anyway. Some of my suggestions for things you could include in it: - re-writing history in all subsequent arguments, to make it seems like you won the first one. Perception is reality! - obliquely insult whomever you lost to in other threads/mediums. Also, I think that #1 and #2 could be improved by adding things like: - mis-represent the other person's arguments on purpose. - include fallacious accusations of fallacy (everyone loves irony, so it will win you support). It's an excellent start, though. I demand popcorn to eat due to the potential entertainment this thread will provide, but it seems that I am not entitled to such resources regardless of the reason. This is great because it's so subtle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Everyone, take notes from interceptor. He aced this class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Is this limited to FE? EDIT: I certainly want to expand my horizons. Edited November 12, 2009 by WeaponsofMassConstruction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 This is a great thread. May I suggest a third lesson? I think that you should make lesson #3 a guide on what to do as a contingency plan in case all else fails, when you lose the debate anyway. Some of my suggestions for things you could include in it: - re-writing history in all subsequent arguments, to make it seems like you won the first one. Perception is reality! - obliquely insult whomever you lost to in other threads/mediums. Also, I think that #1 and #2 could be improved by adding things like: - mis-represent the other person's arguments on purpose. - include fallacious accusations of fallacy (everyone loves irony, so it will win you support). It's an excellent start, though. You forget: Put stuff in quotes that the other person never said and then refute those "arguments" when it is easier than refuting the other person's actual arguments. I realize "mis-represent the other person's arguments on purpose" could be considered to cover what I said, but I think it is such a badgreat way of debating that it deserves to be said on its own. (and I think smash is already exercising "re-writing history in all subsequent arguments" and "obliquely insult whomever you lost to in other threads/mediums" in this very topic. Good job teaching by example! It's like Tim Taylor on Tool Time.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Is this limited to FE? EDIT: I certainly want to expand my horizons. Works the best with a more tightly knit community like FE where you'll butt heads with the same people multiple times over similar subjects. (and I think smash is already exercising "re-writing history in all subsequent arguments" and "obliquely insult whomever you lost to in other threads/mediums" in this very topic. Good job teaching by example! It's like Tim Taylor on Tool Time.) i lost because i didn't follow the rules. :( So actually I'm a bad example. But that doesn't mean I can't teach what other people to do. You know, learn from others' mistakes. Like a chronic smoker telling others not to smoke. Don't know the term for that (lol bad English right there). Edited November 12, 2009 by 8========================D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tino Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 How is this related to debating FE specifically? This is more related to written debates in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 what the- Are Smash and Int being decently civil to each other what the fuck is this shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I wouldn't call that civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 what the- Are Smash and Int being decently civil to each other I'm more astonished that I'm quoted by Smash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 How is this related to debating FE specifically? This is more related to written debates in general. Smash is just taking jabs at guys like Narga and Int, while Int and Narga are jabbing back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan12 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Smash and interceptor should have a freestyle rap battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 How is this related to debating FE specifically? This is more related to written debates in general. Smash is just taking jabs at guys like Narga and Int, while Int and Narga are jabbing back. Yep. That's pretty much what happens in all of smash's recent topics. I suppose it is possible smash had other intentions when these topics were created, but I have a hard time believing that. I think enough of the people on this board find it amusing, though, so I think it's fine. It should probably be in FftF, but then Int and I would probably never see it, so oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Smash and interceptor should have a freestyle rap battle. I'd pay for that. Yep. That's pretty much what happens in all of smash's recent topics. I suppose it is possible smash had other intentions when these topics were created, but I have a hard time believing that. I mean, he was so very subtle about it! I think enough of the people on this board find it amusing, though, so I think it's fine. It should probably be in FftF, but then Int and I would probably never see it, so oh well. Probably. Edited November 12, 2009 by Ninji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I didn't see the subtlety at first. I'm too used to it being blatant >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 6/10 Not a single mention of Mia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Of course, the only way to actually win is to be me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Of course, the only way to actually win is to be me. I've won on occasion without being you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I haven't. Teach me your ways...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I haven't. Teach me your ways...! Become Moribalken. There should only be one of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) 10/10 would read again. Also, lol at the posts in here. It seems as though I never followed these rules, though ;_; Edited November 12, 2009 by Jade Curtiss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATS Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 You should make sure to include subtle ad hominem arguments in your posts, aswell. It's helpful to make your opponent seem biased or just generally stupid and predictable. Keep in mind that another good trick is to use reverse psychology. If you catch your opponent doing any of these things, then take the high road; call him out on it and pretend like you're not using any of these dirty tricks yourself. For example, if the other guy writes a tl;dr post, then in addition to only addressing one or two paragraphs in it, you should also make sure to state that the majority of his post was meaningless dribble anyways (i.e. he was trying to perform point #2, subpoint II). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Everyone, take notes from interceptor. He aced this class. Clearly, subtlety is not your strong point, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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