who is better Harr Ike Jill or shinon

[Candlejack]

I'm laughing that Randomly Predictable hasn't acknowledged that I totally WTFRAPED him at the top post.

Jill is more useful in Dawn Brigade than Crimea team Haar, and she is a better contender for that angelic robe. Sothe/Volug/Nailah/Tauroneo/BK are a waste of exp, so the kills would be better used on her or anyone else worthy. Her utility is something to make her a better unit to use.

1. Unless you're not counting Greil Mercs as Crimea team, then that is utter shit. The only thing she MIGHT be good for in Part 1 is rescuing that dumbshit Fiona but even then, Volug can do it SO much better. Then the maps she IS available on either don't pertain to her advantage of flying or present many foes that her meager combat ability can counter. SHE ISN'T EVEN IN 1-8 FOR GOD'S SAKE.

2. Volug can take EXP when he can but he's the real Jeigan of Part 1; except he'll stay awesome after that, even ending only good in Part 4. Tauroneo doesn't exist, Nailah is an lolroyal and BK is lol. Sothe is just terrible after Part 1 though even if you DO BEXP him, so... yeah fuck him.

3. She doesn't have nearly as much utility in Part 1 as you give her credit for. Even her chapters in Part 3 sandbag either due to utterly broken Laguz foes (Which even WITH the Angelic Robe is around 2RKO'd), fog, or the chaotic defense chapter that is 3-13. And even afterwards in Part 4, you get HAAAAAAAAR.

4. Since we've completely negated Jill's supposed "utility" we can only analyze how she does in combat; and a base 24 HP 13 DEF and 3 RES are bad defensive stats. Yeah 15 SPD is okay but still. So she's OHKO'd by Thunder MAGES without a robe while Haar can survive a hit. Though admittedly there are few units who can demand as much attention as Jill AND be good at the same time; Nolan, Aran, Zihark, and Jill. Micaiah is never going to amount to anything not called a "Thanibomber" or "Healbot", and anyone I haven't mentioned on here is either wtfbroken (Nailah, Volug, Rafiel), does not exist (Tormod, Muarim, Tauroneo, Vika), isn't worth the trouble outside of Part 1 (Sothe, Laura), or just plain sucks (Edward, Leonardo, Illyana, Meg, Fiona).

HAS IT BEEN PROVEN YET TO YOU FOOLS THAT HAAR > JILL? Or do we need to spoon-feed it to you as well.

[Lilmik11]

I'm laughing that Randomly Predictable hasn't acknowledged that I totally WTFRAPED him at the top post.

Jill is more useful in Dawn Brigade than Crimea team Haar, and she is a better contender for that angelic robe. Sothe/Volug/Nailah/Tauroneo/BK are a waste of exp, so the kills would be better used on her or anyone else worthy. Her utility is something to make her a better unit to use.

1. Unless you're not counting Greil Mercs as Crimea team, then that is utter shit. The only thing she MIGHT be good for in Part 1 is rescuing that dumbshit Fiona but even then, Volug can do it SO much better. Then the maps she IS available on either don't pertain to her advantage of flying or present many foes that her meager combat ability can counter. SHE ISN'T EVEN IN 1-8 FOR GOD'S SAKE.

2. Volug can take EXP when he can but he's the real Jeigan of Part 1; except he'll stay awesome after that, even ending only good in Part 4. Tauroneo doesn't exist, Nailah is an lolroyal and BK is lol. Sothe is just terrible after Part 1 though even if you DO BEXP him, so... yeah fuck him.

3. She doesn't have nearly as much utility in Part 1 as you give her credit for. Even her chapters in Part 3 sandbag either due to utterly broken Laguz foes (Which even WITH the Angelic Robe is around 2RKO'd), fog, or the chaotic defense chapter that is 3-13. And even afterwards in Part 4, you get HAAAAAAAAR.

4. Since we've completely negated Jill's supposed "utility" we can only analyze how she does in combat; and a base 24 HP 13 DEF and 3 RES are bad defensive stats. Yeah 15 SPD is okay but still. So she's OHKO'd by Thunder MAGES without a robe while Haar can survive a hit. Though admittedly there are few units who can demand as much attention as Jill AND be good at the same time; Nolan, Aran, Zihark, and Jill. Micaiah is never going to amount to anything not called a "Thanibomber" or "Healbot", and anyone I haven't mentioned on here is either wtfbroken (Nailah, Volug, Rafiel), does not exist (Tormod, Muarim, Tauroneo, Vika), isn't worth the trouble outside of Part 1 (Sothe, Laura), or just plain sucks (Edward, Leonardo, Illyana, Meg, Fiona).

HAS IT BEEN PROVEN YET TO YOU FOOLS THAT HAAR > JILL? Or do we need to spoon-feed it to you as well.

I don't think so.Jill,as a second tier,unit is very good.In my last playthrough,at 3-13,she avoided everything and killed all the enemies she encountered.During this time,Haar is doing the same,except that he's not avoiding,he's receiving no damage.So,while Jill can easily avoid a thunder sage,Haar can't,so he can be easily 2HKO because of that.And if we take both to endgame,who will get pwned by the dragon?Haar.Who will pwn the dragon?Jill.

1.In part 1,Jill can be a contender for one of the two angelic robe.For me,the other one is always Micaiah.Jill IS useful in part 1.I 1-6,she can go kill those pegasus kinght before they get to your team.She's also your only flying unit(If we don't count lolVika).So yeah,she's useful.

2.I agree with you for that one.Volug doesn't need BEXP,but he can still take some for more utility.

3.You really are overrating Haar.He's not doubling for eternity like Jill does.Sure,Jill need more effort,but the reward is priceless.In part 4,Haar is just a shield,and that's it.He can't double because of his bad speed cap.For me,he never went higher in speed than 26.And that's bad.

4.Please,don't try to compare a first tier unit and a second tier unit,that's like trying to compare BK and Meg because they both have armor.And by the way,EDWARD IS THE BEST TRUE-BLADE OF THE GAME.He finish better than Zihark.But that's not the point of this post.Jill is better than Haar.

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

And by the way,EDWARD IS THE BEST TRUE-BLADE OF THE GAME.He finish better than Zihark.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

That post is full of so much wrong. Edward...he's the worst Trueblade in the game (Lucia has one good chapter going for her, and she starts failing afterward). Ever heard of the saying "Edward blocks axes with his face?" That's because he has issues even dodging them in part 1. It doesn't help that he can't do much damage to a good number of enemies. And he takes a lot of damage in return. He has great stats in the end, but what good is his lategame potential if it's hard to get him up there? Especially when you got Zihark and Mia and even Stefan who require much less effort?

Edited January 4, 2010 by Black Soldier

[Narga_Rocks]

And by the way,EDWARD IS THE BEST TRUE-BLADE OF THE GAME.He finish better than Zihark.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

That post is full of so much wrong. Edward...he's the worst Trueblade in the game (Lucia has one good chapter going for her, and she starts failing afterward). Ever heard of the saying "Edward blocks axes with his face?" That's because he has issues even dodging them in part 1. It doesn't help that he can't do much damage to a good number of enemies. And he takes a lot of damage in return. He has great stats in the end, but what good is his lategame potential if it's hard to get him up there? Especially when you got Zihark and Mia and even Stefan who require much less effort?

Ed > Lucia > Stefan.

Lucia has 2-2?

Ed has 1-P and 1-4. Even 1-1. Stefan doesn't even have anything where he isn't outclassed, but he's good enough in 4-E that he's not too much worse than Ed overall.

(Oh, and of course Mia > Zihark >> Ed)

Edited January 4, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Bryan]

And by the way,EDWARD IS THE BEST TRUE-BLADE OF THE GAME.He finish better than Zihark.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

That post is full of so much wrong. Edward...he's the worst Trueblade in the game (Lucia has one good chapter going for her, and she starts failing afterward). Ever heard of the saying "Edward blocks axes with his face?" That's because he has issues even dodging them in part 1. It doesn't help that he can't do much damage to a good number of enemies. And he takes a lot of damage in return. He has great stats in the end, but what good is his lategame potential if it's hard to get him up there? Especially when you got Zihark and Mia and even Stefan who require much less effort?

Ed > Lucia > Stefan.

Lucia has 2-2?

Ed has 1-P and 1-4. Even 1-1. Stefan doesn't even have anything where he isn't outclassed, but he's good enough in 4-E that he's not too much worse than Ed overall.

(Oh, and of course Mia > Zihark >> Ed)

Mia is epic pwn in this game. :D (And Rolf. Marksmen FTW?)

Ontopic, I like Ike the best, although Jill gets an honorable mention.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Bryan

[Zkirsche]

Lol, did someone actually say Jill > Haar???

Just look at Haar's performance in 2-P and 2-E. He's the best unit in 2-P for being able to 2RKO the boss and ORKO everyone else and then he's the best in 2-E for:

• Hammer Pwnage (Look at all the lol generals)
  
• Hit-and-Runs (Good for taking out the longbow archers.)
  
• Chokepoint Blocking.
  
• Ferrying (Heather/Brom)
  
• Weakening enemies for other units to kill
  

Then, come 3-3, he can fly over fences to burn supplies faster than anyone else can. In 3-4, he can ascend the cliff face the fastest, and thanks to his durabiltiy, you're liekly left with a weakened lot of enemies left for your otehr units to kill as you ascend. 3-5 has ledges, making it good for hit-and-runs and can even fly over the cliffs to reach the boss, Lombroso, faster than anyone else can, and with a horseslayer to boot!

3-7 has swamp and he can ferry Ike over to fight the BK if you wish, much easier than anyone else. 3-11 has those traps he can help ground units with an many a sandbag which he can simply fly over so he can devastate teh enemy forces.

And then... part 4 comes around and Haar pretty much owns Jill in the way of statistics right until 4-E.

Haar's the best unit for at least 3 chapters and his high mobility, brilliant defence and decent offence makes him a fantastic unit in all the other chapters. He has 11 chapters pre-part 4 compared to Jill's 7 and is arguably more useful than Jill in all of them (When is Jill ever the best unit in your team with the DB?), so tell me, how is Haar not better than Jill?

Edited January 4, 2010 by kirsche

[Narga_Rocks]

Lol, did someone actually say Jill > Haar???

how is Haar not better than Jill?

I like your post more than the other guy's. Though I'd argue Jill could potentially pull a win in 4-3. It might require aggressive leveling and even if she does get to doubling it may be a question of offence vs. defence since he will of course be more durable. Still, 4-3 isn't as clear-cut as the rest of the chapters. Of course, given his pre part 4 compared to her pre part 4, there's a reason the list has a two tier gap between Jill and Haar.

[RNG Princess]

Mia is so overrated how is she > Zihark?

So Jill has better outcome

Haar has better current use

but they're both good :), I personally prefer the first type.

[Candlejack]

I'm laughing that Randomly Predictable hasn't acknowledged that I totally WTFRAPED him at the top post.

Jill is more useful in Dawn Brigade than Crimea team Haar, and she is a better contender for that angelic robe. Sothe/Volug/Nailah/Tauroneo/BK are a waste of exp, so the kills would be better used on her or anyone else worthy. Her utility is something to make her a better unit to use.

1. Unless you're not counting Greil Mercs as Crimea team, then that is utter shit. The only thing she MIGHT be good for in Part 1 is rescuing that dumbshit Fiona but even then, Volug can do it SO much better. Then the maps she IS available on either don't pertain to her advantage of flying or present many foes that her meager combat ability can counter. SHE ISN'T EVEN IN 1-8 FOR GOD'S SAKE.

2. Volug can take EXP when he can but he's the real Jeigan of Part 1; except he'll stay awesome after that, even ending only good in Part 4. Tauroneo doesn't exist, Nailah is an lolroyal and BK is lol. Sothe is just terrible after Part 1 though even if you DO BEXP him, so... yeah fuck him.

3. She doesn't have nearly as much utility in Part 1 as you give her credit for. Even her chapters in Part 3 sandbag either due to utterly broken Laguz foes (Which even WITH the Angelic Robe is around 2RKO'd), fog, or the chaotic defense chapter that is 3-13. And even afterwards in Part 4, you get HAAAAAAAAR.

4. Since we've completely negated Jill's supposed "utility" we can only analyze how she does in combat; and a base 24 HP 13 DEF and 3 RES are bad defensive stats. Yeah 15 SPD is okay but still. So she's OHKO'd by Thunder MAGES without a robe while Haar can survive a hit. Though admittedly there are few units who can demand as much attention as Jill AND be good at the same time; Nolan, Aran, Zihark, and Jill. Micaiah is never going to amount to anything not called a "Thanibomber" or "Healbot", and anyone I haven't mentioned on here is either wtfbroken (Nailah, Volug, Rafiel), does not exist (Tormod, Muarim, Tauroneo, Vika), isn't worth the trouble outside of Part 1 (Sothe, Laura), or just plain sucks (Edward, Leonardo, Illyana, Meg, Fiona).

HAS IT BEEN PROVEN YET TO YOU FOOLS THAT HAAR > JILL? Or do we need to spoon-feed it to you as well.

I don't think so.Jill,as a second tier,unit is very good.In my last playthrough,at 3-13,she avoided everything and killed all the enemies she encountered.During this time,Haar is doing the same,except that he's not avoiding,he's receiving no damage.So,while Jill can easily avoid a thunder sage,Haar can't,so he can be easily 2HKO because of that.And if we take both to endgame,who will get pwned by the dragon?Haar.Who will pwn the dragon?Jill.

1.In part 1,Jill can be a contender for one of the two angelic robe.For me,the other one is always Micaiah.Jill IS useful in part 1.I 1-6,she can go kill those pegasus kinght before they get to your team.She's also your only flying unit(If we don't count lolVika).So yeah,she's useful.

2.I agree with you for that one.Volug doesn't need BEXP,but he can still take some for more utility.

3.You really are overrating Haar.He's not doubling for eternity like Jill does.Sure,Jill need more effort,but the reward is priceless.In part 4,Haar is just a shield,and that's it.He can't double because of his bad speed cap.For me,he never went higher in speed than 26.And that's bad.

4.Please,don't try to compare a first tier unit and a second tier unit,that's like trying to compare BK and Meg because they both have armor.And by the way,EDWARD IS THE BEST TRUE-BLADE OF THE GAME.He finish better than Zihark.But that's not the point of this post.Jill is better than Haar.

1. PEMN dood. And if you ARE planning on raising Jill and assuming we aren't BEXPing her, this actually means you have to put her into range of enemies. And with her petty base defense stats she won't last too long unlike a few of your key units like Zihark, Nolan, etc. And when you're putting her into counterattack range that ALSO means MAGES might attack her; and when her RES is worse than Haar's, what do you think happens when a Thunder Mage attacks? Yeah, she's OHKO'd even WITH a robe. Haar at base without anything is 2HKO'd. That's significant on its own. And LOL at thinking Jill would pwn dragons on a higher scale than Haar. SUPERIOR OFFENSE AND DEFENSE MUCH? Fuck even Jill has to face the dragons if you bring her but she doesn't have godly defense like Haar. I'd go so far to say that her DEF = Haar's RES.

2. Yeah, laguz are either utterly broken or utterly hopeless.

3. OVERRATING HAAR? Perhaps you're sandbagging him by ignoring Jill's inferior base offense and MUCH more inferior defense. Secondly, who cares if he doubles? So many units in this game have doubling in the first place anyway, and if they do double, then they have other problems like defense (Trueblades) or something like that. Hell, the only thing closest to that is Ike but even HE can be SPD screwed. Haar only has lolthunder to worry about but since magic in this game is a complete joke, he can survive a Thunder hit, counter with a Hand Axe, and continue to tank the rest of the game. JILL, IN CONTRAST, GETS RAPED WHILE WEARING A SERAPH.

3. rofl @ Edward being good.

"BUT AVERAGES STATE"

You know what else is important? BASES. In fact, I could say "Fuck growths" and give every unit amazing bases because that would make them GOOD. Edward has some incredibly shitty bases in an incredibly shitty Part for him to be in. AXES WITH AROUND 87 HIT ON HM. wtf

You people are more idiotic than Lillina fanboys if you think Jill > Haar. MAYBE IN POR BUT NOT IN THIS GAME HEEYA

[Narga_Rocks]

Jill > Haar. MAYBE IN POR BUT NOT IN THIS GAME HEEYA

?????????????????????????????

I don't think there are enough bytes in the world for the number of question marks that this statement of yours deserves. The use of "maybe" suggests that there is some doubt as to whether or not Jill is better than Haar in PoR. In what universe could Haar possibly be considered better than Jill in PoR?

[_____]

Jill isn't better than Haar, obviously, but you're still wrong on multiple levels.

[Narga_Rocks]

Jill isn't better than Haar, obviously, but you're still wrong on multiple levels.

I assume that this is to "Merlinus the Jew".

[Bryan]

I didn't say Jill was better than Haar, I just said she got an honorable mention. Ther is a difference. :/

[cashmonster]

I mainly added Jill to the poll because with out her on hard mode the DB would be screwed and she it awesome if you poor some time into her by the end game

Edited January 5, 2010 by cashmonster

[_____]

Jill isn't better than Haar, obviously, but you're still wrong on multiple levels.

I assume that this is to "Merlinus the Jew".

Yes, sir.

[Candlejack]

I'm using maybe as in:

"Jill might be better in PoR, but Haar is clearly superior in RD".

That came out wrong, because even an idiot knows Jill (Or should I say KILL) is freaking amazing.

[Candlejack]

I mainly added Jill to the poll because with out her on hard mode the DB would be screwed and she it awesome if you poor some time into her by the end game

You misspelled Volug.

[Lilmik11]

I mainly added Jill to the poll because with out her on hard mode the DB would be screwed and she it awesome if you poor some time into her by the end game

You misspelled Volug.

You're really stuborn,aren't you?In 3-13,Volug was so useless because he couldn't double(Just like HAAR)a lot of thing.Compared to Jill,who was avoiding everything or getting little HP loss.Yes,I agree Volug is useful for the part 1,but for me,that's it.OH,and when did Volug could fly?Never.So yeah,that's it.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm using maybe as in:

"Jill might be better in PoR, but Haar is clearly superior in RD".

That came out wrong, because even an idiot knows Jill (Or should I say KILL) is freaking amazing.

I suppose it's a typical use of the English Language, but it's always bothered me when the phrase has "Jill might be better ..." but means "While Jill is better in PoR, Haar is ...". The sentence literally states that there is some doubt about whether or not Jill is superior in PoR, but nobody ever means it that way when they use:

While A might ... in circumstance C, B is ... in circumstance D

But literally mean that A is ... in cirumstance C, rather than just a possibility of it.

You're really stuborn,aren't you?In 3-13,Volug was so useless because he couldn't double(Just like HAAR)a lot of thing.Compared to Jill,who was avoiding everything or getting little HP loss.Yes,I agree Volug is useful for the part 1,but for me,that's it.OH,and when did Volug could fly?Never.So yeah,that's it.

What, do you leave Wildheart on him? There is literally nothing in 3-13 that a fully transformed Volug doesn't double except any GMs that have been raised past 22 AS (pretty much any of them that you have raised). And that's base Volug. He starts with 13 spd, so 26 transformed. And since his spd growth doesn't suck completely and he can actually gain levels in 3-6 and maybe 1 in 3-12, he could easily have 28 AS (or even 30AS) at this point and possibly double some GMs along with the fact 26 AS doubles every single laguz not named Ranulf in the entire chapter anyway. Also, Jill caps tier 2 spd at 25, so she won't double the 22 AS cats that may appear, and has even more trouble doubling and GMs. Unless of course you promote Jill already, but that's likely only happening by this point on EM. Even NM shouldn't see her promoted until late this chapter at the earliest, though probably not until part 4 even in NM.

[Candlejack]

I mainly added Jill to the poll because with out her on hard mode the DB would be screwed and she it awesome if you poor some time into her by the end game

You misspelled Volug.

You're really stuborn,aren't you?In 3-13,Volug was so useless because he couldn't double(Just like HAAR)a lot of thing.Compared to Jill,who was avoiding everything or getting little HP loss.Yes,I agree Volug is useful for the part 1,but for me,that's it.OH,and when did Volug could fly?Never.So yeah,that's it.

You call it stubborn, I call it agreeable with most everyone on this board that Volug is, without a doubt, your strongest and possibly most useful unit on Part 1. And in his Part 3 chapters, he loses Wildheart and gains full transformation bonuses, which FURTHER increase his destructive and defensive potential. Even in Part 4, he gets SS Strike by then and gets to go to the desert where pretty much every unit loses a lot of their MOV... except Volug.

Comparisons with base Volug and base Jill: he has more than twice her base HP, has the same STR untransformed, has -2 SPD untransformed, has more MOV transformed, and with Wildheart, he remains transformed throughout the map at the cost of lower transform bonuses. BUT LOOK AT THOSE BASES AND TELL ME HE NEEDS THEM. Oh he also has Earth affinity and is available on the same maps as Jill, or in other words: NO OBSTRUCTIONS THAT FLIERS COULD OVERLOOK.

2. 3-13? You mean that one defense chapter with those goddamn tiger laguz, Greil Mercs, and everyone getting one-rounded? Good thing Volug can take off Wildheart and receives full bonuses, turning this goddamn monster into a furry lord of war. HE EVEN BEATS OUT NOLAN WITH TARVOS. You also mention Jill "dodging everything and getting little HP loss". I guess... if you've given HER favoritism. Assuming we don't give her any boosters, she will get fucked up by tigers. So yeah, I suppose Jill with BEXP + robe + other sorts of babying > Volug. So yeah I guess so. But at least Volug is fucking those tigers up without trouble.

3. HOLY SHIT. THIS FLYING THING DOES NOT STOP. Part 1, there are NO instances where Jill can make it quicker than Volug since he gets extra MOV over her, and he's a VASTLY superior combat unit at base level so he can survive hits, even get 2-3HKO'd by Fire Mages. Jill... gets OHKO'd by Thunder.

[Saint Nightroad]

3-13 archer should have been a choice. He owns all of them. Nuff said.

[Naglfar]

Volug was so useless because he couldn't double

Please present evidence that there is a chapter in which Volug has trouble doubling.

[Jaybee]

Minor nitpick: Volug pretty much gets 2RKO'd by Elfire mages, though with normal fire he does get 3RKO'd. Or at least that's how I remember it to be.

Though anyone who thinks Jill > Haar in FE10 probably didn't recruit Haar and was playing EM.

[Naglfar]

Minor nitpick: Volug pretty much gets 2RKO'd by Elfire mages, though with normal fire he does get 3RKO'd. Or at least that's how I remember it to be.

Though anyone who thinks Jill > Haar in FE10 probably didn't recruit Haar and was playing EM.

Isn't there like a whole two tiers between them?

[Jaybee]

Your point being?