Jump to content

FE6 HM Tier List


Colonel M
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 2.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Try 7/7/9/8 for those maps, and the last 3 are only as high as they are because I had to recruit Gonzales, Echidna, and Cath, respectively, who extend the chapters to that length.

Wow, that changes everything. I think I did all 4 in 10, with Fir gaining 1 level in chapter 9, 5 levels in 10, 4 levels in 11 and 2 levels in 12. If we can go at that speed then Echidna > Fir for sure, and stuff like Fir vs. Lot is just a waste of time.

On the subject of sandbagging Lot, I put him at 15/1 by the end of 12, and that is never, ever happening at those kind of play speeds either. With the Wo Dao, I would rather give 1 unit +40 critical than another +10, and Rutger can just 2HKO with the Silver Sword when needed (Unless you didn’t have time to get it. Not out of the question, for a 7 turn clear).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the subject of sandbagging Lot, I put him at 15/1 by the end of 12, and that is never, ever happening at those kind of play speeds either.

I didn't intend to mean sandbagging in absolute terms; I had meant that you were giving Lot fair treatment up until chapter 9 but was still giving Fir more than was reasonable.

I don't think a few levels are going to make or break Fir's performance, but my general point is that Lot's earlygame has greater value than anything Fir can do better than Lot when both are available.

With the Wo Dao, I would rather give 1 unit +40 critical than another +10, and Rutger can just 2HKO with the Silver Sword when needed (Unless you didn’t have time to get it. Not out of the question, for a 7 turn clear).

No, I did get the Silver Sword. The Silver Sword is usable later on in the game while the Wo Dao isn't, because Rutger performs rather poorly for the second half of the game and the Killing Edge has a much needed +1 MT. I suppose, though, it isn't quite fair to completely deny Fir use of the Wo Dao.

Killing Edges are also limited at this point in the game, and +10 crit from Wo Dao aids more to a chance at ORKO than +5 hit from Killing Edge, except against bosses, where Killing Edge's +1 MT and +5 hit make it a tossup. You can give your Killing Edges to Marcus, Zealot, or Noah when they run ahead in order to provide them a chance at ORKOing enemies, since they'll never be able to otherwise.

Edited by dondon151
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the Wo Dao, I would rather give 1 unit +40 critical than another +10

When Unit #2 is the one killing bosses, I would say that isn't always true. Plus, giving the Shamshir to Rutger lets him pull out Killing Edges on regular enemies more often, or perhaps hand the Killing Edge over entirely to someone like Noah, Astohl, Dieck, Zealot, or Marcus.

Edited by Anouleth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't intend to mean sandbagging in absolute terms; I had meant that you were giving Lot fair treatment up until chapter 9 but was still giving Fir more than was reasonable.

Her level was reasonable for the speed I assumed the chapters were being completed, which could not be called inefficient. The rules say that units are compared on the assumption they are used the whole game, and my comparison was consistent with that. I wonder if people would be interested in a list for the kind of run I am doing now. It has the advantage of not reducing every growth unit save Rutger and Miredy to irrelevance.

Percival joins with another Silver Sword, and you buy them a few chapters later, so no reason to hold back in the Isles.

Edited by GreatEclipse
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Percival joins with another Silver Sword, and you buy them a few chapters later, so no reason to hold back in the Isles.

There's no real reason to buy them, though; each one of them sets you back about 1/5 of a Boots. I suppose a minor reason to use the Wo Dao over the Silver Sword is that you can sell the Silver Sword later on for more cash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no real reason to buy them, though; each one of them sets you back about 1/5 of a Boots. I suppose a minor reason to use the Wo Dao over the Silver Sword is that you can sell the Silver Sword later on for more cash.

The Wo Dao and Killing Edge are worth money as well, so if Fir has to hold back so does everyone. And besides, Fir >>> Lot at killing things no matter what level we agree upon, and the rules prevent Lot from just helping out in his first 3 chapters and hitting the bench with more positive utility than Fir can ever build, so she should still go above him (For what little it is worth).

Edited by GreatEclipse
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you mean 2/5 of a boot because there's two boots v_v

(hopes you get that this is a joke)

1/5 of a pair of Boots, or 2/10 of a pair of Boots, or 1/10 of a single Boot.

Is that the joke you were trying to make?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Wo Dao and Killing Edge are worth money as well, so if Fir has to hold back so does everyone.

It's an exercise in determining whether the items used now would save more turns than the items sold later for Boots. Certainly, ORKOing most enemies immediately on enemy phase is faster than not doing so, and the benefit of effectively a fraction of a Boots later on is really small.

Hence, why I said it was a minor reason. The Silver Sword is only worth 150G more than the Wo Dao when both are sold.

And besides, Fir >>> Lot at killing things no matter what level we agree upon, and the rules prevent Lot from just helping out in his first 3 chapters and hitting the bench with more positive utility than Fir can ever build, so she should still go above him (For what little it is worth).

You're misinterpreting the rule, then. The rule was originally instated to make sure that suboptimal characters could be judged because they would never be used otherwise. It was never intended to force deployment of a certain unit throughout the entire game because we can all agree that it's stupid to deploy Marcus past chapter 13 outside of rescuing and gumming someone with a Silver Lance every now and then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I played through Ilia recently and fliers really dominate there IMO. Except for 20 and 20x, the water/massive forests/mountains just make foot units (without Physic staves) fall too far behind to be of much use. Even those on horses didn't see much action all in all.

Sacae's terrain is kinder to foot units overall (and the amount of bows make it hard to use more than one flier for combat), but they need very specific combat parameters to be good against Nomads, which Gonzales/Echinda/Fir all lack for various reasons (either inaccurate or non-existent 1-2 range).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're misinterpreting the rule, then. The rule was originally instated to make sure that suboptimal characters could be judged because they would never be used otherwise. It was never intended to force deployment of a certain unit throughout the entire game because we can all agree that it's stupid to deploy Marcus past chapter 13 outside of rescuing and gumming someone with a Silver Lance every now and then.

How am I misinterpreting it?

"When Arguing With Units, You Are to Assume The Unit Is Being Used"

This is to delete the recruitment costs of a unit to prevent sandbagging certain units from their more correct tier placements. This statement also promises that the unit will be used throughout the entire game or, in utility unit's cases, until either their positives are less profound or they become a negative to the team.

It never defines what a utility unit is, but seems to have in mind people who decrees in usefulness dramatically later on. This is technically true for Lot, but no more than it is for someone like Wolt, who should be above half the list if he is allowed to bail at chapter 6 because his chip damage can actually effect early turn counts, and most lower-end units have no answer to that. How should Fir vs. Lot be compared, if you do not think it should be done by assuming both are in it for the long run?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

So before I decide to throw out a lot of suggestions (and since this is still on the front page, I'm allowed to bump this back up), I would like to inquire the following things.

-Typically, when trying to play efficient and low turncount, what levels does one have Lance AND Allen by chapter 7? I bring this up to mention an idea of spoiling one and sacrificing the other, somewhat similar to Sain's situation to Kent, but not as extreme.

Ok, maybe Sain and Kent's a bad example. Think choosing between Luke and Roddy in FE12.

-Rutger really should be above the likes of Allen and Lance. Seriously try dealing with bosses like Henning, Scott, Western Isle crackheads without him. Hell, even Dory (or whatever that chapter 5 boss is) bascally requires him to take his head off, or Wagner with his wtf speed. His offense is simply too good, and is worth transporting him to the front lines for it, even if he lacks 1-2 range (which in this game I find unreliable be it because of shitty accuracy or the frailty of mages). With some intelligent positioning and proper rushing of Marcus and Zealot, Rutger can even do the miracle of trivializing chapter 11 Echidna roue (and this does not even require Marcus and Zealot transport him, since you have Thany to fly over walls). I don't believe this ever stops. Only character I can think of that might be a better boss killer on arrival is Percival, and that's only for the occassions where 20 speed does the job (meaning not-Sacae ,where Rutger's speed and his crit can shine when to comes to boss killing). He's simply too important.

-If I were to say that Deick should not even be in High tier, what would you think? I mean, compared to the units in high tier as is...

-I feel Shin should be bottom of high tier, if only because having a powerful form of accurate chip is hard to come by, and he keeps it essentially from start to finish. This is not a game where I am able to swath through fields of enemies with one dude and a hand axe, half the reason being accuracy and the other being because no one really fast enough aside from Zealot can really double consistently with it until you get Echidna. Also, anti-wyvern.

-I have to wonder what Gonzales is doing above Echidna. First off, Echidna's one of the few characters who can with decent accuracy actually double consistently with a hand axe (especially after a body ring). I don't think I need to point out implications. Weapon rank, weapon control, great accuracy, but more importantly is that she doesn't need to kill to be helpful. She just hammers down normally tough enemies down to size for units you are investing your future into. Units like Gonzales.

Gonzales has a better finish no doubt, but unless you wanna roll serious dice, someone is gonna have to help him out. Echidna on the other hand helps out units like Gonzales without needing to take for herself. Aside from a Body Ring anyways.

-Fir needs to continue to drop, as the only thing she supplies the team with is good combat against axers in the isles, as if we didn't already have enough of them (Allen, Lance, Marcus, Zealot, Deick, Rutger). She does nothing really to stand out. By the time she promotes, we most likely already have Percival, a unit who would have her speed and be better in every conceivable way. This is of course accepting that she can somehow deal with the many a lance users of 13, finding a use in chapter 14, the loads of magic and archers in 14x, and again more lancers and arrows and magic in 15. For what, a blatantly inferior Rutger? By the time she promotes, she's average in combat+crit. I could probably ask for better. In the least, I can't really understand her being better than papa Bartre.

-In the least, Roy should be over her as earlygame sword cavs are more a nuisance than any enemy in the western isles, and his Rapier is a good way in dealing with them.

-Has anyone ever gotten Lou significantly higher level than 4 by Lillina's arrival?

-Ray should not be this high up over Lillina. He should definitely not be over Klein+Speed Wing, the other good staff user of lategame, the dragon killer and a basic thief with all her thiefiness.

-Oujay should drop below Geese, if only because Geese shows up better than a trained Lot while having the weapon rank for things like Killer Axes, Halberd and Brave Axe (ignoring that Echidna takes those from him). In the least, being a decently durable axer with access to good weapons trumps being even worse than Fir in combat and never getting the speed to actually double (with iron, thanks chumpy con) silly things like Steel Lance cavs until level 10.

-Sue I feel should rise a tier. Early on, she's a way of finishing off wyverns (you really wanna risk her chipping with 59 displayed using steel?), or generally chipping/killing soldiers of whom are EXP pinatas (chapter 8 in general is an exp bonanza). She can get to the likes of level 6 by Shin's arrival. By then, her speed is enough to function at her job, though her damage isn't quite spectacular. In the least, it's accurate chip at the frontlines with the paladins, letting you have to rely less on shaky acc of things like javelins and hand axes. It can also help the likes of a Steel Sword Rutger or Steel Blade Deick finish off while avoiding a counter. By the time you're off the isles, she has C rank (before Shin, so now she has Killer Bows) and level 10 minimum with about 14 Speed (12 AS, enough to double steel cavs) and about 8 Strength so she has 17 might. 16 damage can be enough for someone to Horseslayer an enemy while evading a counter, a single crit would let just about anyone finish it off, and a double crit would flat kill. Just sayin she gets decent mileage. In the least, raise her position for Sacae. For real, the hell is she doing a tier below RAY in Sacae?

-Lillina I could see just below Ward's current position (I think Zeiss needs to go up before you shoot my head off for that. Not sure how I feel about Treck). Off the bat with a C with Roy and Thunder, she has 12 might, 11 with Fire, and yet not really talked about is her C rank base for your fresh Elfire which with that C makes it a 14 might chip with generally decent accuracy. While she lacks the move, it generally equates to Sue's chip at the time. For 8x, you don't really need stupid mobile units to chip, and generally Lillina can rack enough. If chosen to be given kills, she could easily get 2 levels with her silly leveling speed. This is a trend that generally continues and helps her build her magic at lightning speed thanks to her hilarious growth. For example, by chapter 10, assuming she's level 15, you turned 14 chip with Elfire into 17. That's half or nearly half the HP of fighters in chapter 10. And all we did was give her 8 kills over the course of 2 chapters. By the time we get Ray, if things go accordingly, Lillina can be level 9, possibly with a B with Roy. 11+2 Magic+Elfire since you probably still have some left over is 21 damage. This is halfway between Ray's damage with Flux and Rezire except she is doing it with 105 acc instead of Ray's 94, not to mention Lillina can still resort to more accurate means. Could also mention she's close to B rank for Aircalibur, of which you will have 2 by the time (Cecilia's and the one from chapter 12). If promoted early and willing to nab it in chapter 16, she will also be the only person able to use Bolting the moment you get it. 28 magic damage from 10 spaces away's no joke. That'sof course presuming you promoted her the moment you got the chapter 14 guiding ring.

...Gahh, I feel like I'm hyping again. In the least, I'd take good accurate temporary chip damage at the expense of some kills compared to Oujay and Geese generally being meh at combat.

-I just feel Zeiss is in the wrong tier. In the least when promoted, he's able to function as Roy's armored car.

-Wolt over Hugh. Walt getting to level 3 ASAP lets him function as accurate chip in chapter 3 to help the likes of Allen and/or Lance avoid counters from soldiers without the help of Marcus, letting Marcus worry less and rush towards the throne faster. Walt+Roy's Rapier lets someone like Allen kill a sword cav. Hugh needs to eat a guiding ring and 10K to do that in his portion of the game. Without Wolt, you could not do a 5 turn of chapter 1, etc.

Edited by grandjackal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So before I decide to throw out a lot of suggestions (and since this is still on the front page, I'm allowed to bump this back up), I would like to inquire the following things.

It's a tier list. Last I checked we don't really consider it a necro as long as it is the most recent tier list. It could be on the 4th page from a year ago and we likely wouldn't care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a tier list. Last I checked we don't really consider it a necro as long as it is the most recent tier list. It could be on the 4th page from a year ago and we likely wouldn't care.

I'm just being cautious about it is all, but thanks for the notification.

EDIT: Also, you vanished for a hella long time, kinda surprised to see you're still around.

Edited by grandjackal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm just being cautious about it is all, but thanks for the notification.

EDIT: Also, you vanished for a hella long time, kinda surprised to see you're still around.

Yeah, well, any time someone wants to bring Fir down, I'll be there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So before I decide to throw out a lot of suggestions (and since this is still on the front page, I'm allowed to bump this back up), I would like to inquire the following things.

-Typically, when trying to play efficient and low turncount, what levels does one have Lance AND Allen by chapter 7? I bring this up to mention an idea of spoiling one and sacrificing the other, somewhat similar to Sain's situation to Kent, but not as extreme.

Ok, maybe Sain and Kent's a bad example. Think choosing between Luke and Roddy in FE12.

Actually, the example you're looking for is Cain and Abel in FE11.

-Rutger really should be above the likes of Allen and Lance. Seriously try dealing with bosses like Henning, Scott, Western Isle crackheads without him. Hell, even Dory (or whatever that chapter 5 boss is) bascally requires him to take his head off, or Wagner with his wtf speed. His offense is simply too good, and is worth transporting him to the front lines for it, even if he lacks 1-2 range (which in this game I find unreliable be it because of shitty accuracy or the frailty of mages). With some intelligent positioning and proper rushing of Marcus and Zealot, Rutger can even do the miracle of trivializing chapter 11 Echidna roue (and this does not even require Marcus and Zealot transport him, since you have Thany to fly over walls). I don't believe this ever stops. Only character I can think of that might be a better boss killer on arrival is Percival, and that's only for the occassions where 20 speed does the job (meaning not-Sacae ,where Rutger's speed and his crit can shine when to comes to boss killing). He's simply too important.

Sounds reasonable.

-If I were to say that Deick should not even be in High tier, what would you think? I mean, compared to the units in high tier as is...

Yeah, he compares well to high tier units. So therefore, he should be in High tier.

-I feel Shin should be bottom of high tier, if only because having a powerful form of accurate chip is hard to come by, and he keeps it essentially from start to finish. This is not a game where I am able to swath through fields of enemies with one dude and a hand axe, half the reason being accuracy and the other being because no one really fast enough aside from Zealot can really double consistently with it until you get Echidna. Also, anti-wyvern.

Agreed, though you neglected to mention how awesome a ferrier he is thanks to his con.

-I have to wonder what Gonzales is doing above Echidna. First off, Echidna's one of the few characters who can with decent accuracy actually double consistently with a hand axe (especially after a body ring). I don't think I need to point out implications. Weapon rank, weapon control, great accuracy, but more importantly is that she doesn't need to kill to be helpful. She just hammers down normally tough enemies down to size for units you are investing your future into. Units like Gonzales.

Gonzales has a better finish no doubt, but unless you wanna roll serious dice, someone is gonna have to help him out. Echidna on the other hand helps out units like Gonzales without needing to take for herself. Aside from a Body Ring anyways.

Agreed.

-Fir needs to continue to drop, as the only thing she supplies the team with is good combat against axers in the isles, as if we didn't already have enough of them (Allen, Lance, Marcus, Zealot, Deick, Rutger). She does nothing really to stand out. By the time she promotes, we most likely already have Percival, a unit who would have her speed and be better in every conceivable way. This is of course accepting that she can somehow deal with the many a lance users of 13, finding a use in chapter 14, the loads of magic and archers in 14x, and again more lancers and arrows and magic in 15. For what, a blatantly inferior Rutger? By the time she promotes, she's average in combat+crit. I could probably ask for better. In the least, I can't really understand her being better than papa Bartre.

I agree that Fir has serious problems being used after the Isles but saying she's bad because Percival is better is ridiculous. You can use both Fir and Percival, plus almost everyone is bad compared to Percival.

-In the least, Roy should be over her as earlygame sword cavs are more a nuisance than any enemy in the western isles, and his Rapier is a good way in dealing with them.

3HKOing cavs and being 2HKO'd back is not very good performance, particularly when he has to eat a counter and can only be exposed to one enemy.

-Has anyone ever gotten Lou significantly higher level than 4 by Lillina's arrival?

Define significant. I got Lugh up to level 7 by the time she joined, but who knows? Significant to you might be level 11 or something.

-Ray should not be this high up over Lillina. He should definitely not be over Klein+Speed Wing, the other good staff user of lategame, the dragon killer and a basic thief with all her thiefiness.

I agree, he should be just above Lilina.

-Oujay should drop below Geese, if only because Geese shows up better than a trained Lot while having the weapon rank for things like Killer Axes, Halberd and Brave Axe (ignoring that Echidna takes those from him). In the least, being a decently durable axer with access to good weapons trumps being even worse than Fir in combat and never getting the speed to actually double (with iron, thanks chumpy con) silly things like Steel Lance cavs until level 10.

Eh, Oujay does have WTA to help himself out during the Isles, so he's not too badly off. As for Geese, what level is the Lot you are comparing him to? This'll be important to any comparison you want to make. Also Lot has more con than Geese, so Geese probably isn't better than him anyway.

-Sue I feel should rise a tier. Early on, she's a way of finishing off wyverns (you really wanna risk her chipping with 59 displayed using steel?), or generally chipping/killing soldiers of whom are EXP pinatas (chapter 8 in general is an exp bonanza). She can get to the likes of level 6 by Shin's arrival. By then, her speed is enough to function at her job, though her damage isn't quite spectacular. In the least, it's accurate chip at the frontlines with the paladins, letting you have to rely less on shaky acc of things like javelins and hand axes. It can also help the likes of a Steel Sword Rutger or Steel Blade Deick finish off while avoiding a counter. By the time you're off the isles, she has C rank (before Shin, so now she has Killer Bows) and level 10 minimum with about 14 Speed (12 AS, enough to double steel cavs) and about 8 Strength so she has 17 might. 16 damage can be enough for someone to Horseslayer an enemy while evading a counter, a single crit would let just about anyone finish it off, and a double crit would flat kill. Just sayin she gets decent mileage. In the least, raise her position for Sacae. For real, the hell is she doing a tier below RAY in Sacae?

You're getting hyped again buddy. Chipping only nets 10 exp and while it wouldn't be a bad idea to feed her kills since we're using her, in general, we want her to mostly chip so Alan/Lance can kill an enemy without taking a counter. Not only that, being a bow user means she has no EP. This means that it is unreasonable to expect her to be at level 6 by the time Shin arrives since her exp gain is stunted. Of course I haven't really used Sue so I might be wrong on how much exp she might gain, but I'm gathering you haven't either.

-Lillina I could see just below Ward's current position (I think Zeiss needs to go up before you shoot my head off for that. Not sure how I feel about Treck). Off the bat with a C with Roy and Thunder, she has 12 might, 11 with Fire, and yet not really talked about is her C rank base for your fresh Elfire which with that C makes it a 14 might chip with generally decent accuracy. While she lacks the move, it generally equates to Sue's chip at the time. For 8x, you don't really need stupid mobile units to chip, and generally Lillina can rack enough. If chosen to be given kills, she could easily get 2 levels with her silly leveling speed.

For 8x, Lilina's performance is mostly irrelevant since the best strategy is to have Thany ferry over Rutger, Zealot, and Roy to the boss. I guess Lilina can fight for self improvement but she generally not doing anything of consequence.

This is a trend that generally continues and helps her build her magic at lightning speed thanks to her hilarious growth. For example, by chapter 10, assuming she's level 15, you turned 14 chip with Elfire into 17. That's half or nearly half the HP of fighters in chapter 10.

Did you just forget that as Lilina levels up, her leveling speed drops? Your level estimate is for her is ridiculous. How the hell is she going to be at level 15 by chapter 10? Assuming she gets kills in 8, 8x, and 9, that would mean she got nearly 5 levels per map. This is impossible since she has 5 move, needs to be spoonfed kills, and dies to a light breeze.

By the time we get Ray, if things go accordingly, Lillina can be level 9, possibly with a B with Roy. 11+2 Magic+Elfire since you probably still have some left over is 21 damage. This is halfway between Ray's damage with Flux and Rezire except she is doing it with 105 acc instead of Ray's 94, not to mention Lillina can still resort to more accurate means. Could also mention she's close to B rank for Aircalibur, of which you will have 2 by the time (Cecilia's and the one from chapter 12). If promoted early and willing to nab it in chapter 16, she will also be the only person able to use Bolting the moment you get it. 28 magic damage from 10 spaces away's no joke. That'sof course presuming you promoted her the moment you got the chapter 14 guiding ring.

This is a more reasonable leveling speed for Lilina, but I notice how no mention of Lilina's piss poor durability is present. Same with her lack of EP and 5 move and how a lot of the enemies on the isles have 1-2 range, so she has to constantly be shielded to avoid being OHKO'd and unlike Lugh, she just can't take a Robe to escape death since she's ORKO'd.

...Gahh, I feel like I'm hyping again. In the least, I'd take good accurate temporary chip damage at the expense of some kills compared to Oujay and Geese generally being meh at combat.

I should call Sirius. He knows how to end your hype faster and harder than I do.

-I just feel Zeiss is in the wrong tier. In the least when promoted, he's able to function as Roy's armored car.

Which Zeiss, the Sacae version or the Ilia version?

-Wolt over Hugh. Walt getting to level 3 ASAP lets him function as accurate chip in chapter 3 to help the likes of Allen and/or Lance avoid counters from soldiers without the help of Marcus, letting Marcus worry less and rush towards the throne faster. Walt+Roy's Rapier lets someone like Allen kill a sword cav. Hugh needs to eat a guiding ring and 10K to do that in his portion of the game. Without Wolt, you could not do a 5 turn of chapter 1, etc.

Doesn't Wolt deal like, 1 damage to a cavalier in Chapter 4? And isn't his leveling speed slow because he's an archer? That could definitely hold him back somewhat.

Edited by Gafgarion
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...