FE6 HM Tier List

[Inui]

Obviously keep Killers/etc. GIVE THE CHAPTER 7 WYVERNS SILVER LANCES! :D

[Colonel M]

Obviously keep Killers/etc. GIVE THE CHAPTER 7 WYVERNS SILVER LANCES! :D

Chapter 7 is already luck-based enough. Let's not go too far with this now.

Actually Silver by the time you get out of the Isles would be pretty devastating.

[Dat Nick]

So Merlinus is in the process of getting removed in the FE7 list. Go ahead and do it here. I've explained why in irc but anyway I don't care for the "He's a unit he's in the selection screen, FE7 Merlinus isn't in the selection screen, he's not a unit" logic because if we were to pretend that lords didn't show up in the selection screen, you wouldn't call Hector and Roy not units. After his forced time is up, and mind you he does basically nothing during the period he is forced, Merlinus is stuck as a 200 slot convoy for the rest of the game. Matthew is tiered for Silver Card, Chad is tiered for the shit he gets you and blabalba you all read Life's post I don't see the need to go through it again. Merlinus off this list too.

[CATS]

The arguments that disqualify Merlinus from being a unit in FE7 don't apply here. He can move around the map, he consumes a deployment slot, he has an inventory that can be traded with other units, etc. He falls squarely in the category of a utility unit, along the same lines as a dancer or a healer, providing a non-combat service to your units; namely, fielding him allows you to withdraw items from the convoy in the middle of a chapter. Not that this is particularly useful, but there is little reason that he shouldn't be tiered in FE6.

[Life]

I'm going to disagree with you, CATS. And I'm quoting myself here.

But my point is that he doesn't actually do anything. He just exists. He doesn't help you 5* anything unless you give him credit for the items that he holds and then he auto tops the list just because he exists.

It's the same thing here after Chapter 5. Merlinus still "just exists". If he needed to get fielded so that his services could be of use, then I wouldn't say anything about it. But it's the same thing here. Even if he's not fielded, you still reap the benefits because he's the convoy. That's like saying that even if I don't field Chad, I can still steal stuff and unlock Chapter 7's doors and chests (without keys) because he exists.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[CATS]

You misrepresent my point. I didn't say Merlinus should receive credit for holding items; a team that never fields him can still send things to him and use him to hold things. I specifically said that fielding Merlinus allows you to withdraw from the convoy mid-battle; it requires you to put him on the field and then actively select an action during the course of the chapter, and it's not an option if he isn't fielded. To use your example, this is along the same lines as Chad's use in Chapter 7; I cannot unlock those doors and chests (without keys) unless I put Chad on the field and select the actions necessary for him to perform those services.

I do not see what disqualifies Merlinus as a unit if other pure-utility units such as unpromoted healers and dancers are allowed to be on the list.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm going to disagree with you, CATS. And I'm quoting myself here.

It's the same thing here after Chapter 5. Merlinus still "just exists". If he needed to get fielded so that his services could be of use, then I wouldn't say anything about it. But it's the same thing here. Even if he's not fielded, you still reap the benefits because he's the convoy. That's like saying that even if I don't field Chad, I can still steal stuff and unlock Chapter 7's doors and chests (without keys) because he exists.

You misrepresent my point. I didn't say Merlinus should receive credit for holding items; a team that never fields him can still send things to him and use him to hold things. I specifically said that fielding Merlinus allows you to withdraw from the convoy mid-battle; it requires you to put him on the field and then actively select an action during the course of the chapter, and it's not an option if he isn't fielded. To use your example, this is along the same lines as Chad's use in Chapter 7; I cannot unlock those doors and chests (without keys) unless I put Chad on the field and select the actions necessary for him to perform those services.

I do not see what disqualifies Merlinus as a unit if other pure-utility units such as unpromoted healers and dancers are allowed to be on the list.

I agree that Merlinus is completely different in fe6 from fe7. His services aren't very useful, of course. He lets you get stuff from the convoy and since he doesn't fight he is arguably a good candidate to go shopping early on when he is forced.

Of course, units like Marth don't get credit for being walking convoys so if you were to be consistent from topic to topic then Merlinus only gets credit for the shopping. However:

Not that I disagree with your basic argument or anything, but cross-list comparisons are a little bit ridiculous. There's no Fire Emblem Tiering Association, lists are all self-contained, and it's especially silly in the case of FE9/FE10 where Ranks don't even enter into it.

As such, you could easily give Merlinus credit for allowing you to trade out items. There are times I'd actually be tempted to bring him if I didn't raise so many units every time I play. I keep breaking weapons and having Thany run around with just an iron lance and sword after breaking her killer or her silver or whatever she started with is rather annoying.

[-Cynthia-]

I also agree with keeping Merlinus here. He takes up a deployment slot, and secondly can move for all of his existence meaning eh can visit villages and such in earlygame.

[Narga_Rocks]

I also agree with keeping Merlinus here. He takes up a deployment slot, and secondly can move for all of his existence meaning eh can visit villages and such in earlygame.

But Walt > Merlinus. Early chipping to allow certain units to actually kill stuff either without counters or at all has got to be better than visiting some shops and villages in early game. I suppose it depends on teamsize, though, since if you raise just 12 units then on maps with more slots you can maybe use Merlinus to allow your units to break more things without having to finish a map with iron weapons.

[-Cynthia-]

Merlinus has the advantage of semi-invincibility I guess (he can leave the chapter, but not the game).

[Dat Nick]

I don't really care how many times you can respawn if you can never do anything while you're alive.

Which Merlinus can't.

[-Cynthia-]

He's good for trading items in earlygame I guess, since he can access anything. It's actually pretty handy, since units tend not to start with all the weapons they should.

I could see him dropping to the below Dorothy though if we don't give him credit for the covoy, which we really shouldn't since he doesn't even have to be fielded.

[Dat Nick]

Units start with more than enough weapons to last them four-five chapters (you can stretch your weapon uses a long way in this game, it isn't that hard). All I can really see Merlinus "doing" is tossing Roy an Iron Sword. And I put doing in quotations because it's possible Roy may have more to do with putting it in his own inventory than Merlinus does.

Speaking of Roy, he doesn't take a unit slot ever and is required to seize, so put Roy in his own tier, please. Above Top.

Edited March 29, 2010 by s Portsman

[Dark Sage]

I dunno. I don't think there's really a point in tiering Merlinus. If we did, he'd be below Wendy and Sophia because unlike the other two, he can't do anything. His allowing you to use the convoy on the field is pretty pointless considering how if you're being prepared, you don't need him to. He also doesn't net you an item like Sophia, he can't fight like both Wendy and Sophia, he has no supports, he only gains 1 EXP and only by being attacked (which would probably kill him). And he can't even keep up with your mounted units because he has 5 move .

Is there a good reason why to tier Merlinus, because otherwise, he's bottom of Graveyard (or qualifies for his own tier).

[Colonel M]

Made some changes.

[Florete]

I approve of Fir's new position.

[grandjackal]

Very funny Colonel, putting Fir above Echidna. Why? Ilia route, Echidna has axes, Sacae she has range, doesn't need to be trained up to be good, nor does she take a promotion item. It would take until Bern for her to start doing anything other than being worse than Echidna.

As a note, why is Thany above Shin in Sacae? Frankly, that just seems silly.

[frat_tastic]

Treck is deserving of his new position.

Happy April Fool's Day

[CATS]

Sophia > Treck imo. Sophia gets you a guiding ring.

[frat_tastic]

but thats story line bro

[CATS]

Oh, right. Damn. I guess Sophia really is the worst then.

[Colonel M]

I dunno man, netting you a Guiding Ring despite it being storyline? Sounds pretty h4x to me. Oh and Roy for auto-top.

[grandjackal]

But dudes, Wendy a tier above them both, cause...She could have done a lot of shit before Sophia's recruited, and has no difficulty required to recruit her like Treck.

[frat_tastic]

Sophia is also freely recruited. Wendy and Sophia up to their own tier, Treck at the very bottom with his own fail tier.

[Colonel M]

Sophia is also freely recruited. Wendy and Sophia up to their own tier, Treck at the very bottom with his own fail tier.

But that causes so many inconsistencies, lol. Now we have to have Percival drop to Low because we need to move Lalum over to him, and who the fuck is going to get a dancer all the way up there in Chapter 13?