Anouleth Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I know, I know...major typo out of my part right there. Fir joins in axefest and has solid bases and promotional gains. Marisa doesn't sucked when trained, she's equal to HM Guy ONCE trained. Marisa is never equal to HM Guy. Her strength is worse, forever, and her none of her supporters want her because she has a lousy affinity. Guy is always going to have higher ATK and CRT, and probably better HP and DEF too. (As if it weren't enough that Guy has twice as much availability as Marisa.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 You DO realize that's she's only marginally better than Rennac once trained, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Soul, you are even making MY amateur ass rage hard. Marisa is goddamn terrible, probably the worst promotable unit in the entire game (YEP, perhaps worse than Knoll and even goddamn EWAN.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Marisa is never equal to HM Guy. Her strength is worse, forever, and her none of her supporters want her because she has a lousy affinity. Guy is always going to have higher ATK and CRT, and probably better HP and DEF too. (As if it weren't enough that Guy has twice as much availability as Marisa.) You weren't including supports when you said Marisa is horrible once trained. They're even without including supports and at 20/1, Marisa only has some slight Avo in her favor. You DO realize that's she's only marginally better than Rennac once trained, right? Rennac is a nerfed Legault with hilarious Luck. She isn't, this is ONCE trained and not effeciently. Her dodge and offense is more relibale because of Crit & Loluck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 They are not even without supports. Guy has leads in fucking EVERYTHING, not to mention comes earlier relative to Marisa with a higher starting sword grade as well. Also ties or beats Marisa in everything except lolLCK and lolRES. Also, since he isn't a total shitfest, he can have a support with Matthew. Marisa either has people that don't want her or suck epic dix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bros Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Fir. I like Sword Masters and of the ones I've used (Rutger, Fir, Guy, FE7!Karel, and Joshua) she's my favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 They are not even without supports. Guy has leads in fucking EVERYTHING, not to mention comes earlier relative to Marisa with a higher starting sword grade as well. Also ties or beats Marisa in everything except lolLCK and lolRES. Also, since he isn't a total shitfest, he can have a support with Matthew. Marisa either has people that don't want her or suck epic dix. And then you train her, and she's STILL awful. Just not quite as awful. Dude, I was refering to her perfomance ONCE trained on an un-effecient run, that's what I understood from Slize, but I could be wrong. I never said Marisa was awesome on EFFECIENCY, she just blows 8[ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Guy has leads in fucking EVERYTHING. His 20% STR growth says other wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 His 20% STR growth says other wise Guy's Str growth is 30%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Who're we talking about? Guy has a 30% STR growth. Marisa is clearly worse than Knoll. Knoll's decent while he's around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Knoll comes later, he has 0-2 Def & 0 Luck, his Avo sucks and is even dropped by his default weapon, he will be tworounding cavaliers one by one depending on how you are using his Nosferatu...the best way it to make him stay in range of only one cavalier at a time and drain their HP. He wins for targeting Res, otherwise his durability is awful for his joining time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Marisa comes late, she has 4 Def & D swords, her ATK sucks and is even dropped by her default weapon, she will be threerounding cavaliers one by one depending on how you are using her Shamshir; which brings up the question of why Eirika/Colm isn't using it ...the best way it to make her stay in range of only one cavalier at a time and drain their HP. She wins for high SPD, otherwise her durability is awful for her joining time. c wut i did thar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Guy's Str growth is 30%. Oh yeah my modules are all messed up But yeah not much difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 c wut i did thar Marisa slows down by a slim? wut. It was exepect, I didn't say she is doing much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) No There is a difference. Now they have the same growths and it is a matter of who has the higher base. *Checks stats* Guy wins. EDIT: Knoll is to magic as Marisa is to combat. So they are both bad but not Ewan/Amelia bad. Edited February 24, 2010 by Merlinus the Jew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) Marisa slows down by a slim? wut. It was exepect, I didn't say she is doing much better. Im sure it was "exepected" Edited February 24, 2010 by Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Knoll has summons and staves at the price of the Master Seal or a Guiding Ring. He has insane durability (summons) and is capable of falling back on healing. Plus he has 1-7/8 range without paying anything, and can make anyone and everyone invincible. Knoll's decent while he's around. 30% is 1.5x 20%. That's a significant difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inui Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Says the guy who defended Guy against Priscilla, a unit with more utility who has even bothered to do it. I think you are underrating Joshua, because he actually does good in a game where enemies are even crappier than FE7's enemies even when it comes to Hard (LOL?) Mode. Karel has some value in FE7, he actually has decent Atk & Spd...Karla is the one you could call "worthless" in a debate. Fir requires even more babying than Marisa. It's a formal debate for fun and thinking. I don't think Guy is better than her at all. In fact, I think Guy is overrated, and that Joshua is even more overrated. FE 8 enemies have Lck and a bit more AS, which makes them certainly better than FE 7 enemies. Your units are just better...which sucks for Joshua. He doesn't get to wreck 0 Lck enemies and he gets overshadowed by gods while Guy at least has huge stats. Karel has no value due to poor durability, no supports, and forcing you to not get Harken, who crushes him in everything. Fir joins with huge stats and gets to fight tons and tons of axe users. She doesn't even need babying. But she's still there during the axefest. She has time to train fairly easily. Marisa.... just sucks when she joins. And then you train her, and she's STILL awful. Just not quite as awful. qft Soul, you are even making MY amateur ass rage hard. Marisa is goddamn terrible, probably the worst promotable unit in the entire game (YEP, perhaps worse than Knoll and even goddamn EWAN.) qft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) No There is a difference. Now they have the same growths and it is a matter of who has the higher base. *Checks stats* Guy wins. Read the post that you seemed to have ignored. Knoll is to magic as Marisa is to combat. So they are both bad but not Ewan/Amelia bad. Did I even say Marisa was all that awesome? No. EDIT: Having more Luck does not mean having good luck, their Luck is still pretty cheap. Joshua gets overshadowed by how many exactly? Seth? Franz? Because Vanessa, Neimi, Colm or Gilliam isn't doing much earlygame. Colm picks a few locks, but he is just avout decent in combat, he 2RKO's. Joshua's bases are almost as good as Guy's HM bases and comes pretty early himself, he also starts in a point where he is sorrounded by brigands and fighters while Guy has to face of soldiers who actually hit him despite having a good support. Edited February 24, 2010 by Alan Rainsworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Joshua gets overshadowed by Seth, Franz, Duessel, Ephraim, Vanessa, Colm, Cormag, Gerik, Tethys, Kyle, Lute, Artur, Forde, Moulder, Natasha, Eirika, and Saleh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Saleh? No way. Maybe on Eirika Route but otherwise, no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Duessel and Cormag are only really on Eph route as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Duessel still has some uses even though he comes later. Sort of the same with Cormag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Yeah, it's Eir. Saleh and Eph. Cormag and Duessel. And the lords are only on their own routes, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salad Utensil Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) Joshua gets overshadowed by Seth, Franz, Duessel, Ephraim, Vanessa, Colm, Cormag, Gerik, Tethys, Kyle, Lute, Artur, Forde, Moulder, Natasha, Eirika, and Saleh. Don't just post people on a tier list without bothering to understand why they are at that position to begin with. Half the characters on that list are definitely not better fighters than Joshua Seth is the best unit evar. Duessel is only better on one route when he actually exists. Ephraim is only better on his own route where he is actually availible. Vanessa has a terrible earlygame and is only top tier partially due to utility (flier) and supports that will not appear until much later. Colm is a thief that can fight, he is only better than Joshua due to utility with some fighting (like FE6 Thany). Cormag is probably a better unit if he was more availible. Tethys is obviously an inferior fighter to Joshua. Natasha and Moulder can't fight for over half their existance, they are ranked highly because healing is good. Saleh is questionably better (I'm skeptical he's better even on Eirika route). Artur and Lute also have pretty mediocre earlygames too. Besides Joshua, only Seth, Franz, Eirika, Vanessa and Colm can reliably double before everyone's growths kick in (besides monsters and soldiers)? Colm has bad weapon ranks and bad base strength, while Vanessa is in a similar boat, but faces WTD early on. Joshua is great because of his early game when half the uber cast doesn't exist/still can't double attack yet... Edited February 24, 2010 by User Account Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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