Icon of Sin Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Best: Sara, awesome skills. Worst: Sophia, considering her training to even become one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 BEST: FE9 Ilyana. She's actually made of glass unlike most of my mages. Also, I have a fetish for Thunder magic and she starts with it. Yay. So your fanboyism actually deluted you to believe Ilyana is a glass canon? The true glass canon is Soren, just look at his Mag. Lucius is actually better than Ilyana for being able to oneround a few things at Chapter HM while Ilyana can't, no even in Easy Mode. WORST: FE7 Lucius. He hits hard enough and takes enough damage in return to fit in my category, but he never does what I want him to do. Plus, Canas overrides all. He doubles much more reliably than Ilyana, their Def is also comparable...enemies are a bit tougher in FE9, so Ilyana is suffering trouble there as well as her Spd growth won't get her much far^. Canas isn't even a class canon, his Def is good in mage terms and his Mag is no big deal, he doesn't double reliably unless he promotes. And no, Vika isn't REALLY a glass canon...she has 14 Def promoted, that's just great, her Atk ain't so high either, she's fast, but that is part of her good early offense, doubling most things and having just decent Atk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) And no, Vika isn't REALLY a glass canon...she has 14 Def promoted, that's just great, her Atk ain't so high either, she's fast, but that is part of her good early offense, doubling most things and having just decent Atk Since when do Laguz promote? Hmmm...changes his vote to Pelleas. Edited March 2, 2010 by NinjaMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Since when do Laguz promote? Hmmm...changes his vote to Pelleas. Probably means "transform". I've typed the wrong one by accident sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Exactly, "transform", thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fei Mao Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Best:Sara Worst:Sophia Edited March 2, 2010 by Generic Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Best: Lucius. Maybe it's just good luck but even when I frontline him he doesn't get hit despite having nowhere near Lyn's dodge. He tanks better than Canas and Pent combined sometimes, and those two actually have something called defense and HP growth. He's also the best boss-bolting bait aside from Res-blessed!Lyn. Worst: I haven't really had any really horrible ones, but vote goes to Lillina. I had to give her two Speedwings to avoid being doubled, and that's with her speed being average. (I did like using her though. Roy support fixes it a little but... two Speedwings?) Edited March 2, 2010 by Luminescent Blade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffe Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Best: Sara Worst: Lilina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Isn't Sara an Est? And I thought she was a cleric, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffe Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) I don't consider her an Est because she's easy to level. She has elite so she can just spam libro to level 10 and promote because she has awesome promo gains. A staves on promotion is also awesome and yeah, she has combat before promotion too Edited March 2, 2010 by Halluci_Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) So your fanboyism actually deluted you to believe Ilyana is a glass canon? The true glass canon is Soren, just look at his Mag. Yes, actually. Why? In seriousness, I wasn't going for damage in my calculations after all. The problem is, Lute is a damn cannon - but she's not glassy. Soren is a dodgier bitch than Ilyana enough that he can play tank semi-reliably. Canas hits for MASSIVE DAMAGE but he really isn't glassy due to Nosferatu/etc. So the problem here was thinking of a Mage who actually had poor SPD/DEF growth, as per my post. EDIT: The only two I could think of from the games I played were Ilyana and Lucius, incidentally. EDIT2: I may as well go all the way here. *snip* I'll go with sound (>=50% str/mag) offensive growth coupled with poor(<=35% spd/def?) defensive growth for mine. Soren's listed stats are 60 MAG / 40 SPD / 15 DEF. I suppose he'd qualify if I ever used him or if I classified SPD as an offensive rather than a defensive stat. Ilyana is 50/30/15 - within my (arbitrarily selected) parameters. Having a more in-depth look at the numbers says we can't gauge this on DEF growth or it wouldn't be Best Glass Cannon, but rather simply Best Mage and I don't think that's what was intended. I can't think of what was *actually* intended, since there aren't really glass cannons besides mages, but there ya go. EDIT3: So I suppose that's where I'm sticking. What's a GLASS CANNON imply, if more than mages? It would be Best Mage if it were supposed to be about mages, so I assumed we went with the squishier mages. It's early. If this conclusion doesn't satisfy, return to line 1 and then skip the rest of the post. Edited March 2, 2010 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 What's a GLASS CANNON imply, if more than mages? I for one think of a glass cannon as basically anything that hits really hard (not necessarily magic), but dies after one or two hits. I don't think the chance to dodge crap plays a factor in determining what is a glass cannon, it just is part of what makes a glass cannon actually good. Following these standards, I would consider FE11!Tiki to be glass cannon as well, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) I for one think of a glass cannon as basically anything that hits really hard (not necessarily magic), but dies after one or two hits. I don't think the chance to dodge crap plays a factor in determining what is a glass cannon, it just is part of what makes a glass cannon actually good. Following these standards, I would consider FE11!Tiki to be glass cannon as well, for example. But, as I said, dodginess is inherent in glassiness. Otherwise, I can say Gilliam/Gatrie/Oswin is a glass cannon because the dude hits ONCE like a freakin' TANK but get ORKO'd by mages due to low resistance, and Gilliam sure as hell ain't an archetypical glass cannon, ya know? On the flip side of that, mages from FE7 on seem to have a universal 15% DEF growth (EDIT: meaning there aren't any "squishy" mages or "tough" mages unless you count SPD.), and nothing else in the game hits nearly as hard as them while lacking defense. Archers may lack defense, but they really don't hit all that hard. Myrmidons, same story. So what that boils down to is just mages, but wouldn't the contest be Best Mage? Maybe I'm thinking too hard into this. Maybe I'm just trying to further a faulty argument based on tenuous assumptions because I dislike Soren. EDIT2: Of note, it could very well be that I'm arguing from a very limited standpoint - I've only play FE7, 8, and 9 and intend to play 10. The NES/SNES games and 11 don't interest me and 6 is Japan-only and I don't feel like dicking with an emulator. Edited March 2, 2010 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Best: Lucy Worst: Lilina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 But, as I said, dodginess is inherent in glassiness. Otherwise, I can say Gilliam/Gatrie/Oswin is a glass cannon because the dude hits ONCE like a freakin' TANK but get ORKO'd by mages due to low resistance, and Gilliam sure as hell ain't an archetypical glass cannon, ya know? Well, not necessarily. I think the term "glass cannon" mainly refers to physical durability, not magical. This may be mainly because physical enemies are quite a lot more common than magical ones, but I'd never think of Oswin as a glass cannon, for example. So basically, a glass cannon is someone who hits for high damage and has very low HP and Def. Mages fulfill these criteria most often, but there are other characters that fulfill them as well, like the FE11!Tiki I mentioned earlier. On the flip side of that, mages from FE7 on seem to have a universal 15% DEF growth (EDIT: meaning there aren't any "squishy" mages or "tough" mages unless you count SPD.), and nothing else in the game hits nearly as hard as them while lacking defense. Archers may lack defense, but they really don't hit all that hard. Myrmidons, same story. So what that boils down to is just mages, but wouldn't the contest be Best Mage? Maybe I'm thinking too hard into this. Maybe I'm just trying to further a faulty argument based on tenuous assumptions because I dislike Soren. EDIT2: Of note, it could very well be that I'm arguing from a very limited standpoint - I've only play FE7, 8, and 9 and intend to play 10. The NES/SNES games and 11 don't interest me and 6 is Japan-only and I don't feel like dicking with an emulator. Well, that's understandable of course. FE7 to 9 don't have that many glass cannons; actually, the only glass cannons in those FEs I could think of right off the bat are Lucius and Soren. FE5 on the other hand has quite a lot of them, as does FE11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Divine Swordmaster Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Well let me think of some Melee glass cannons..... Myrmidons are glass cannons in general like Edward and Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Yes, actually. Why? In seriousness, I wasn't going for damage in my calculations after all. The problem is, Lute is a damn cannon - but she's not glassy. Soren is a dodgier bitch than Ilyana enough that he can play tank semi-reliably. Canas hits for MASSIVE DAMAGE but he really isn't glassy due to Nosferatu/etc. Glad you didn't took what I said seriously, I didn't mean any offense, sorry =P Canas does not do MASSIVE DAMAGE, his damage is overall arouond Lucius and he doubles less, he gets no promo gain for Mag, having high Mt with Mag isn't everything, you know. Being a good dodger does not change the fact he is a glass canon, what it would be having actual reliable Def that would NIT make him one, and the only reason his Avo is high is because of his support with Ike, but before that, his Avo isn't too reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Glad you didn't took what I said seriously, I didn't mean any offense, sorry =P Canas does not do MASSIVE DAMAGE, his damage is overall arouond Lucius and he doubles less, he gets no promo gain for Mag, having high Mt with Mag isn't everything, you know. Being a good dodger does not change the fact he is a glass canon, what it would be having actual reliable Def that would NIT make him one, and the only reason his Avo is high is because of his support with Ike, but before that, his Avo isn't too reliable. Oh? I actually did take what you said seriously. I just didn't take any offense from it. >> In good news, as far as I can tell between you and Raymond and my own research I'm just pulling from a pool with a particularly low glass cannon base. I just don't like Soren. EDIT: Yay we both get to be right! /EDIT WRT Canas, though, the both times I've raised him to 15+ Druid he's naturally capped MAG, so all I got is anecdotal evidence for him. Sorry, bro. - Swordmaster: The problem I see is that the GBA Myrmen at least don't do particularly much damage. When they DO get damage, via Swordmaster crits, they stop being so squishy. Edited March 2, 2010 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Best: Micaiah Worst: Lilina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Personal Experience means nothing, I assume you know that. Naturally, Canas needs +5 Mag in averages to even cap magic, Lucius caps it but is prone to a magic that has low Mt and is a little too heavy...supports and Shine fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Oh, sure, I know that. That's why I said all I've got is anecdotal evidence - I've never SEEN an average Canas yet. :D EDIT: Actually, I know this is probably done now. I'll leave that as my last post on the subject and let the topic get on track. Edited March 2, 2010 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Oh, sure, I know that. That's why I said all I've got is anecdotal evidence - I've never SEEN an average Canas yet. :D EDIT: Actually, I know this is probably done now. I'll leave that as my last post on the subject and let the topic get on track. http://www.serenesforest.net/fe7/average/canas.html How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Well let me think of some Melee glass cannons..... Myrmidons are glass cannons in general like Edward and Guy How come? They seem to be more like Fragile Speedsters, if you ask me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 That's right, Guy's damage will still be pretty low despite his critical bonus. Edward's Str raises decently, the problem is that enemies sorrounding him also grow and probably slighlty better. FE10's SM critical bonus kinda sucks and they don't get +5% Crit when hitting an S rank, enemies actually have Luck here to leave Zihark with around 15% Crit with an average sword on Part 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venusaur Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Best: FE9 Ilyana. Thunder magic was amazing in Radiance, and she starts with a good Thunder level unlike Soren. Worst: Fighter!Draug 3 DEF with barely any growth is fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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