Integ's gon' rank the characters!

[Tables]

Calling Neimi's support good is a bit questionable. Neimi is pretty awful, after all.

Also:

Considering that the next unit you can use to Steal is Rennac, and by the time you get Rennac nothing is ever stealable again

Chapter 15 has a Guiding Ring, Chapter 17 a Dragonshield and Chapter 19 a Goddess Icon.

[Integrity]

I knew the Dragonshield, but I thought the Ring dropped normally?

No idea about the Icon, though.

EDIT: I see. I never noticed the Ring and presumed everything was empty in C19 because there're so many damn enemies.

EDIT2: Line fixed.

Neimi isn't *awful*. She's just bad. :(

Edited May 15, 2010 by Integrity

[dondon151]

Colm is pretty awful, too.

[BBM]

Before judging on Colm's review, I will wait until you review Eirika, and see how her combat is classified. Because his strength base is equal to hers, with the same growth. Also, you totally skipped over Colm's crappy defence. His defence and resistance bases are equal to hers, with lower growths, and people always harp on her crappy defence. They have the same affinity too, but aside from Neimi, a better list. If you underjudge her combat on her mode, I will ask for Colm's rating to be lowered by 1.

BTW, Colm x Neimi is 80+3, not 80+4.

[Integrity]

Before judging on Colm's review, I will wait until you review Eirika, and see how her combat is classified. Because his strength base is equal to hers, with the same growth. Also, you totally skipped over Colm's crappy defence. His defence and resistance bases are equal to hers, with lower growths, and people always harp on her crappy defence. They have the same affinity too, but aside from Neimi, a better list. If you underjudge her combat on her mode, I will ask for Colm's rating to be lowered by 1.

BTW, Colm x Neimi is 80+3, not 80+4.

Colm's rating might be lowered by a point or a half a point, actually.

Eirika...well, since I'll be rating her on her own route, she'll be getting an 8.5 probably, but I dunno yet.

EDIT: And feel free to judge Colm as much as you want right now - Eirika is going to be the very last review and I think I overrated Colm anyway.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Integrity

[BBM]

Okay, well... you want me to rip into Colm, so before that, is this NM or HM? I believe you said NM, but I want to make sure.

[Integrity]

Okay, well... you want me to rip into Colm, so before that, is this NM or HM? I believe you said NM, but I want to make sure.

I never actually said tbh, but I have the most experience with NM so I've been going off that generally.

[Junkhead]

Yeah. He can double some early stuff that Lute can't, but overall he's not quite so great.

I would say Artur is actually great, either promotions go with him, and a base C rank in anima as a Sage is just exellent.

Colm has a SWEET cloak. It's almost as sweet as Joshua's hat. Seriously.

Never. EVERYONE can use capes, but not awesome hats and look good at the same time.

This means that Colm's crits are...somewhat limited - bad for his Assassin potential, but doesn't really matter if we're using him as a thief/Rogue. Rogue!Colm comes with the advantages of a sweet battle sprite with sweet battle animations (compared to bellyshirt assassin, at least) and only losing Silencer.

This can be made up to that:

LightXFire, which is full ATK, full CRIT, and full HIT, making it a pure offensive support for two pure offensive units. I also always field Neimi due to other reasons (she's hawt.)

I actually don't think Neimi is too bad, and I actually think she should be able to have some earlygame use, for example, every character that isn't Seth isn't onerounding, Neimi could be used to chip damage so Colm could re-kill (Or vice-versa), she can also do it to help others like Gilliam, who are a bit in trouble thanks to almost constant earlygame WTD. The bonuses both afford each other are pretty good too, both defeneatly want Atk, and Crit is great for Colm to make up for a good Assassin.

[Integrity]

I like Neimi, both rationally and irrationally, but she isn't a great unit who will always be fielded.

Anyway, waiting still on BBM's railing of my Colm rating, but dropped him to an 8.5 in the meantime after thinking on it some.

This brings us to ...

NEIMI

DISCLAIMER: I AM VERY BIASED TOWARDS NEIMI. This isn't even a "I see his use but I just don't like Forde" or a "I acknowledge that Marisa is totally worthless but guys she's HOT", like I've written. Neimi has many personal factors in play for her - I think she was my second promoted unit, my first A support, she's still the cutest in FE8, and several more besides. I say this because this review is going to hurt me to write, and I need your loving support. :(

So Neimi has the benefit of joining rather early - C3, to be precise. Her most likely avenue of leveling is going to be via random crits when she's trying to weaken something for Ross/Franz/Artur to finish off, though some use in C3 can let her barely one-round some enemies in C4 if I recall correctly. Essentially, Neimi is not leveling quickly at all. I have emboldened and underlined this statement because it's key to her downsides.

Starting out, she's doing middling damage - 3RKOs to most units in C3 - but she's the only 2-range you have with reliable HIT, and it's in a chapter with many walls and chokepoints. So actually, in C3, Neimi is fairly useful. After that, she retains most of her usefulness in C4, loses some for C5, and drops off SHARPLY for C6 (do not deploy Neimi in this chapter.) C7 she can pilot a Ballista to shoot some random shit for some random XP or a lot of missing depending on whether or not your name is me. C8 has enough Mages and Loldiers for her to shoot through walls/over Gilliam that she'll get some XP - if she's deployed.

And there's the kicker for Neimi. You're introduced, one chapter off Neimi, to two very reliable and rather damaging 1-2 range Magicians in Lute and Artur. They can, essentially, do everything Neimi can for this portion of the game, since Longbows don't exist and Neimi's durability doesn't have extra chapters to outstrip Artur's. So you decide for C8 you want some blasty power to hide behind Gilliam and, later, Kyle you're going to deploy Lute and Artur because they're checking RES (thumbs up!), they're doing more damage because of it, and they're probably mutually supportive by this point. On top of that, they have 1 range for the *one* time you need them to melee something (the archers come to mind, I guess.)

Does she do bad damage? Not really. She'll never catch Artur for S/M, and her defensive growths are all on par with his except RES which is rather lower. Topping that, her bases are all slightly lower except a point of DEF and lolLCK, and the only thing she beats him in is SPD - and she won't even catch his lead until the low teens. Her only distinct advantage - triple MT versus fliers - doesn't even come into play until halfway through the game. Correct me on this if you must, but I don't think there's a single flier until the Deathgoyles in L'Arachel's chapters on both routes. I do note that Beholders (...mogalls. that's it.) might be susceptible to bows, but I really can't remember right now.

Why Neimi, then? That's the problem. She's immediately outstripped by two units who support each other, but she could be a good unit if she only showed up earlier. She has a very useful affinity for her archetype - Fire - but her supports aren't going to come into play for a good while except xColm - who, granted, does help her case slightly. In the very very long run (we're talking the end of the game here, people), if you've dragged her the entire way and meticulously built her supports, she'll be a great unit due to a great offensive affinity with no fewer than FOUR supports reciprocating good offensive affinities (Colm=Light, Garcia=Fire, Amelia=Thunder, Gilliam=Thunder) - but Gilliam is ridiculously slow, Garcia is particularly slow, and Amelia starts late and is with Amelia ffs. On the other hand, building her all the way gives her no fewer than FIVE LEVELS of full-Crit from supports. That's TWENTY-FIVE FREE PERCENT (wow :o) And even if you get her to the middle game, SHOOP there's Innes with his Mighty +5 Bow of Awesome oneshotting everything in a nice coat and making snarky and/or badass comments. Fucker.

So yeah. :/

5.5

Edited May 20, 2010 by Integrity

[BBM]

I can't rail against Colm until Eirika's review, because I don't have NM stats. I can prove that he's worse than Eirika at combat, but that means nothing without her review, or without stats. He might do less damage, but still enough for the ORKO on NM. He definitely does not for quite a while in HM, though.

However, here's some stuff to start off: His support list sucks, aside from Neimi, who probably isn't going to be in play. She's locked to 2-range until 3/4 of the game is over, and then gets to choose between 1-range or 2-range, but can't ever have 1/2-range. Without her, although he can still get a C support for a few chapters, his offence completely crumbles. His only other full attack support is a 0+2 with Moulder, a healer. Assuming an efficient run, he'll probably get a C with him at best. His other supports are: another 0+2 with Marisa, who's even less likely to be used than Neimi, a 5+2 with Kyle, who has no business being near Colm, and a 5+2 with Rennac, who's not going to be by him either, as the only reason to field two thieves is if they're going to split up and go after different treasure. And even if Colm might be fielded for combat, Rennac certainly won't be.

With a C Neimi, he's 2RKOing, which isn't that bad, because so is everyone not named Seth. His starting chapter is also rather axe-heavy, which is good. However, with the chests and doors he has to pick, it's likely that'll be most of his use. He probably won't get a level. Then Chapter 4 is the first monster chapter. The Mogalls slaughter him, he might be facing WTD on a few of the enemies (are there any lance Bonewalkers?), and there's nothing to even steal. He might not even be deployed this chapter, depending on your limit. Then Chapter 5 also has quite a few Bandits, but these guys have high HP and speed in this chapter, so he's 3RKOing them at best, I'm thinking. Then Chapter 6 comes, where he gets deployed. However, he probably isn't fighting. There's a few fighters- but there are also Cavaliers and Knights and Soldiers and Mercenaries. He's probably just staying in the back. In Chapter 7, he's pretty useless. The Mages weaken him too much for him to risk going near them, so he basically doesn't fight. Besides, this chapter is just Vanessa dropping Eirika on the other side of the river, so she can take out the Cav. boss with her Rapier, and seize. In Chapter 8, plenty for him to pick, but again, no/little combat, because this is mainly lance with a few magic enemies. Then Chapter 9 comes, and this is where Neimi is probably dropped, if she was even kept that long. His 2RKOs become 3RKOs, especially as he didn't get much Exp. in the last chapters. And then he keeps falling behind, to the point where you field him until Rennac comes, and only for fog and chests, and then dump him. His combat is on the same level as Eirika, except she's a lord, and is forced, and is therefore a higher priority for exp. then him. In fact, everyone in the early chapters but Garcia and Neimi have equal/better combat after they're raised, so simply put, he does not fight well enough to level.

Maybe I'm sandbagging him a bit. I don't like Thieves too much.

[Bryan]

Neimi gets sole claim to a promotion item, no one else can use it. Unlike the mages and healers fighting over a GR, Neimi gets use her promotion item whenever she wants. (Unless you fail at 6, you get her PI.)

[Integrity]

Failing at 6 isn't particularly hard, but that's primarily due to my playstyle. Point's made, though.

BBM: I don't want to pick your post apart, but suffice it to say I comprehend your points and I think what you're pointing out is worth dropping Colm to an 8.5, which I already did.

[dondon151]

Failing at chapter 6 is quite literally impossible given that Seth is used. The only enemy that threatens him is that one Halberd fighter who has an Iron Axe initially equipped.

[Integrity]

Failing at chapter 6 is quite literally impossible given that Seth is used. The only enemy that threatens him is that one Halberd fighter who has an Iron Axe initially equipped.

AH. FUCK THAT GUY. Last playthrough of mine that motherfucker one-shotted Seth.

[Bryan]

I've only had it happen once where the youngest girl died. (In my playthrough log, actually...) Luckly, I wasen't using her. :) (Or Seth.)

Edited June 6, 2010 by Bryan

[Integrity]

Well, since Bryan bumped this I'll give a status report:

Having not used Garcia overmuch before very recently, I've halted progress on this until my Axes Playthrough is done. Once that's over, it's Ross and Garcia then the short trek to the finish.

I haven't forgotten!

[Integrity]

Ahh, fuckit. I'm having /rage at C16 in the Axes PT, so I'll type here a while! Soul is also an incredible pestmotivator.

GARCIA

Let's see if I remember how to do this.

This fellow is GARCIA. He's a Fighter. Oddly, considering my affinity for Berzerkers and Hector and Boyd, I generally dislike Fighters. Especially odd considering I hail them once promoted. What's this mean? This means Garcy gets low SKL, high Damage, and never doubles anything ever.

Actually, the previous paragraph wasn't entirely fair. Garcy, unlike many fighters, actually has a respectable SKL base and growth. His biggest weakness is his 20% (yeah.) SPD growth. Combined with the fact that, beefy as he is, Axes weigh SO DAMN MUCH and therefore weigh him down past Steel and you have a character who struggles to not get doubled. Not to double, to not get doubled. Even a heftily abused Garcia will take doubles from Swordmasters when they start to show. 'course, getting doubled by Swordmasters is nothing new. Let's look at his competition:

His young son, Ross, essentially starts 14 levels below him with all the benefits and, uh, the opposite of benefits that entails. What this means is Ross, while having some poorer growths than Garcia, ends up with higher stats level-for-level due to having those 14 extra levels to train him. On the other hand, you have to train him - which isn't too big a deal, because Ross levels fast and - unlike the other Trainees - arrives early. Very early. His closest rival for his spot as Primary Axer, if Ross isn't fielded, is Gerik. Gerik blows him out of the water in every stat except LCK forever - and average!Gerik is a third of a point behind at 20/20. So, yeah, Garcia loses to Gerik in everything forever except availability.

Where's this leave him? Well, Garcia is actually quite useful for his lack of doubling. His hits are big enough, and his durability high enough, to severely wound but not kill the plethora of Axers in the beginning chapters. This means much easier kills for: Neimi, Colm, Franz, Ross, Eirika, etc. etc. The downside is Garcia won't level very quickly and he'll be left behind - just as Gerik steps in to take his place/Ross gets to a respectable level. As such, he actually contributes quite a bit, just only in the early and a bit of the middle game.

If you deign to take Garcy to his logical conclusion, you'll find an archetypical Axer who lands one big hit and takes a hit or two in return matched up against respectable HP. His endgame is nothing special, really - except if you promote him to Warrior he dance-fights on a crit. He also has a fairly fast FireXFire with Ross - but that's his only viable support. On the other hand, Ross is definitely worth fielding. On the other hand...

DANCE FIGHT.

6.5

EDIT: Garcia's up half and proper again.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Integrity

[Anouleth]

Wait, what?

-Garcia has plenty of CON, enough to use all but three axes without AS loss (and sorry, but Steel Axe and Devil Axe are pointless - Garcia 2HKOes fine).

-Gerik is not a primary axe user. He starts with D Axes, so he is never going to touch Garm. Gerik might throw the odd Hand Axe or switch to an Iron for WTA, but the others just distract from Audhulma.

-Garcia has advantages over Gerik. Garcia has more strength until Gerik caps (which is Level Never-Gonna-Happen), plus his stupidly fast Ross support.

-Duessel exists and is serious competition with Garcia for Garm. I found it hard to tell, but the tone of your rating implied that you were leaning slightly towards Warrior. Warrior!Garcia doesn't match Duessel's base speed until 20/10, and Duessel has speed issues even with Garm.

[Integrity]

Wait, what?

-Garcia has plenty of CON, enough to use all but three axes without AS loss (and sorry, but Steel Axe and Devil Axe are pointless - Garcia 2HKOes fine).

-Gerik is not a primary axe user. He starts with D Axes, so he is never going to touch Garm. Gerik might throw the odd Hand Axe or switch to an Iron for WTA, but the others just distract from Audhulma.

-Garcia has advantages over Gerik. Garcia has more strength until Gerik caps (which is Level Never-Gonna-Happen), plus his stupidly fast Ross support.

-Duessel exists and is serious competition with Garcia for Garm. I found it hard to tell, but the tone of your rating implied that you were leaning slightly towards Warrior. Warrior!Garcia doesn't match Duessel's base speed until 20/10, and Duessel has speed issues even with Garm.

Thank you, thank you. I knew I had to be wrong but frankly Garcia is just an early draft.

-Actually, you're right. Looking at the Axes list, I assumed Steel was one of the less-heavy axes at 15 without bothering to check my facts.

-Gerik and Ross were the only viable Primary Axers (hero!Gerik, that is) because Dozla is shit and I forgot about Duracell.

-Gerik actually has +/- 2 STR tops from Garcia until they both cap at the same level. Warrior!Garcia just has the benefit of keeping growing. Point granted, though.

-I forgot Duracell. Like, entirely. I am ashame.

Help me make this a better rating.

[Junkhead]

That's right, he's only loosing AS to 3 axes, and all of them either come late or are unnecesary earlygame.

GARcia should be entitled to the Brave Axe, he does really well with it, and he can actually avoid getting doubled by a few enemies. The Brave Axe garantees Warrior!GARcia to 1RKO many, many enemies. Not to mention Warrior is the best path for him, he isn't getting doubled alot, and actually needs that +3 Def/Res.

[dondon151]

The Brave Axe is not obtained until chapter 17 and is not really going to be used to any significant extent to be considered a factor in Garcia's performance.

Edited June 15, 2010 by dondon151

[Integrity]

Ahem, so we've very mildly told me how I'm wrong about Garcia, but it was aborted. For now, I'm leaving him at 6.0 assuming it's a logical rating with some inaccuracies in the post itself.

ROSS

ACHTUNG BABY. I have a special hard-on for Ross. He was my first Godlike unit in all of Fire Emblemizing. Ever. So this little guy is very, very dear to me.

Ross, as eloquently put by a man wiser than I, joins your party in Chapter 2 at level -10. If you intend to deploy him seriously later, he must be deployed immediately and begin chipping with his (remarkably good) Hatchet. It's remarkably good because it has 50 charges (enough to get Ross to 10/1 on its own), has above-average HIT for an Axe, and is 1-2 range. Best HIT of all the Axes, in fact. The only downside is its MT is low, but he's not hurting anything with a real weapon anyway. So Ross comes with his own weapon and he won't need another one until he's worth deploying on his own merits anyway. K.

Ross levels fast for those first ten levels. Even chipping at Zombies and Bandits he gets ~33XP per chip, and between 80 and a full 100 if he manages to sneak a kill in. If you manage to feed him two kills every chapter, he's going to 10/1 before Ephraim even arrives to help you out. If you're deploying him, he's probably going to hit it significantly sooner - with some favoritism, he can conceivably hit 10/1 just from Neimi's chapter alone, but it's more likely that he gets to kill some squishy, squishy Zombies and promotes at the beginning of C5. Ross levels fast for those second ten levels, too, because he tends to have better stats level-for-level than other units. Since level is the determining factor in XP gains, he retains a modicum of speed.

Ross's growths, now, aren't anything special. The only reason he turns out well is because he has spectacular bases for being level negative ten, and he gets ten levels more than other units to utilize his generally mediocre growths. On the one hand, this means that Ross can turn out utterly faceraping; on the other, he can be RNG-screwed to Hell and back. His primary asset is that he can promote into the massively broken Berzerker class and not suck massively like That Other Berzerker With L'Arachel. If he gets to 10/20/1 before roughly C15, he's going to spend much of the rest of the game 1RKOing everything, with the crit to give him a run at 1RKOing Dracozombies without effective weapons.

Speaking of crit, Ross has a +Crit support and no fewer than four options to double up on it. One quite fast, two average, and one slow. The fast one is with Garcia, and is his most likely option and, in fact, one that can conceivably build to A without much trouble, considering the two units are movement-matched and recruit together anyway. One of the two averages is with Gerik, which is nice for both, but 0+3. The other two are with the other Trainees, and good luck if you want to deploy them too. Essentially: Ross has good supports.

What're the downsides to Ross? Frankly, not very many. If you're a chapter too slow getting him promoted the first time, he can be a bit of a pain to raise through his Pirate stage. Once he gets to his Berzerker stage, unless it's ridiculously late in the game (I mean Rausten Court late.) he's fine. Otherwise? He's a leech for two chapters, or a light leech for three tops; then he's a ...well, not *dependable* unit but can tank a single enemy for another couple chapters, then Chapter 9 or 10 rolls around? Shiiiiiiiit.

I'm going with 7.5 here, but I think the gap between Ross and Garcia is too wide. I'm assuming that means Garcia should move up a few points, but give inputs now plz.

EDIT: Ross reflects his actual again.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Integrity

[BBM]

As much as I love Ross, I think 8 might be a bit too much. 6 or 7 maybe. His period of suck at the beginning is really bad.

[Integrity]

Really bad, yes, but really short. And unlike the other Trainees, he reliably comes out of it thanks to the low enemy level and the Hatchet.

[dondon151]

I still have no idea what efficiency standards you are going by. From very efficient to very inefficient, Ross's overall performance can really be anywhere relative to Garcia.