Integ's gon' rank the characters!

[Tables]

Comparing their earlier join time, Saleh joins earlier (start of ch. 12 vs end of chapter 12). Go for Ewan to be consistent.

Then:

Saleh

Dozla

L'arachel

(Cormag

Duessel

Tethys

Gerik

Innes)

Amelia

Tana

But all of Cormag to Innes could switch around, since they all join about 1/2 way through a chapter 10.

[Integrity]

Comparing their earlier join time, Saleh joins earlier (start of ch. 12 vs end of chapter 12). Go for Ewan to be consistent.

Good point. Ewan it is!

[Specta]

Ewan! Do it!

O :

[Integrity]

EWAN

Ewan. Hmm.

Ewan's a funny chap. Out of the three trainees, I'd say he's the hardest to grade. The very basic starting point is he gets four choices to promote into, vice Amelia and Ross's three. Ewan also joins later (technically you can get Amelia in Hamill Canyon in Eirika's route, so that's a debatable point) So, essentially, in Chapter 12A/Chapter 12B, you can pick up a unit who is as powerful now, 10 chapters later, as ROSS was when you recruited him. On paper, that sounds like reeeeal fun, don't it?

Now, I'm actually going to grant Ewan a little bit of tower grinding, to be absolutely unfair to the other units I've ranked so far - the problem is, it doesn't help him much. Let's do a quick aside, first - Ewan can eventually promote to:

Sage - you're SWIMMING in Sages. Artur, Moulder, and Lute can all be Sages, and Saleh is automatically one. Ewan can catch Saleh in just about every way, but you can to get him there first. Ewan can, honestly, also outclass sage!Moulder...except you've had Moulder for those last 10 chapters. Ewan will never touch Lute ever in any way. K.

Mage Knight - Without the Canto of previous/later systems, it's hard to imagine a world where MK!Ewan is particularly desirable. He trades Light magic (lol.) and several stats for a pony and a ridiculously low MAG cap, which offsets a benefit I'll get to. On the ridiculous off-chance you have Ewan double-promoted by Chapter 15 he'll also be comically slowed in the desert instead of blazing around cockslappin' bitches like Master Saleh.

Druid - OK, this isn't actually a bad choice. Druid v. Sage trades 1 DEF/RES and 1 SKL for 2 SPD and 1 MAG - making Ewan a better blaster. Additionally, he gets access to Dark and Anima magic, the best two of the triangle, and he's better than Knoll at using them.

Summoner - Ewan isn't even as good a Summoner as Knoll. If I were to grade Ewan based purely on that, he'd go below Knoll. How's that?

Awright, so we'll discount MK and Summoner because, quite frankly, lol. MK gets a benefit of +1 CON and +1 MOV (yes, the horse gives him ONE MOVEMENT) over Sage, and while the CON is useful...meh. The major differences between Sage and Druid are outlined just above, and Sage gets Light vice Druid's Dark. Since I'm biased towards Elder Magic, I'll assume for the rest of this post we promoted Ewan to Shaman, then Druid.

Now, honestly, we don't have a bad unit on our hands. The problem is, to get him here, we've either ground the Tower to dust (and that eliminates the reason for rankings, since sufficient tower grinding lets ANYBODY be a soloing machine in this game), or we've snatched kills from all of our other units to make it so. We don't even get the ability to arena-abuse him, since the last arena in the game shows up in the chapter in which he joins in Ephraim's route - meaning he can get 10 from it, tops, on one route of two. So we're going to have to grind Ewan out the regular old naked-Seth-blocking-doors way.

Nice mental images, eh?

So, moving on, if we want to get maximum benefit out of little Ewan, we can actually save him for Chapter 15 and give him Afa's Drops the Metis Tome. Since he has 50 levels to gain, and he's quite a bit easier to level than Ross and Amelia, he'll gain a bit of benefit from it. However, then we have a 1/--/-- unit, who we're sure as hell not deploying in the desert, and now we have a 1/--/-- unit in Renais Keep, if you's maximizing the Metis Tome. Without the Metis Tome, Ewan is, eventually, a better Saleh. With the Metis Tome, Ewan is eventually on par with Lute - except he has less than half the time to get there and you have to eat a lot of kills to make it so. Additionally, my opinions on Ewan are skewed by my opinions on all the Trainees - I can actually see the use in them unlike some. Ewan also gets points because, as Ewan/Ross proves, Ewan is a fucking pimp.

Since I've been talked into Knoll > Ewan, Ewan has dropped to 2.0. He'd be less than Knoll, but he gets a point for pimping.

EDIT: And Ewan.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Integrity

[Tables]

4.5 for Ewan :o?

I'm sure someone else can point out his problems, but as a point of information, since he's almost certainly never getting above about 20/10, probably not 20/5, MK is likely his best option. He loses light (which he doesn't care about anyway), but gets +1 MOV, +1 CON and +1 MAG, at the cost of 1 DEF and 1 RES, a more than fair trade. He won't go Shaman, since he gets stuck with Dark magic.

[Junkhead]

Knoll can promote on Turn 3 IIRC if he grabs the Mster Seal in the Desert, assuming Eirika route is taken.

*sigh*

Do I have to repeat myself again? He isn't that much better when he's only useful for Phantoms and has an E rank in staves, he is easily outranked and classed by other magic users, he is also not too useful in his joining chapter using Phantoms, they get killed by everything, they don't even serve as good decoys with the many enemies in that map. You can just have Duessel tank and destroy those cavvies that get weighted down by their Steel Lances/Swords, Ephraim destroys them too with Reginleif.

He could actually be useful if you take your time to baby him, but these type of characters usually get low scores, especially if they come at his joining time.

[Integrity]

4.5 for Ewan :o?

I'm sure someone else can point out his problems, but as a point of information, since he's almost certainly never getting above about 20/10, probably not 20/5, MK is likely his best option. He loses light (which he doesn't care about anyway), but gets +1 MOV, +1 CON and +1 MAG, at the cost of 1 DEF and 1 RES, a more than fair trade. He won't go Shaman, since he gets stuck with Dark magic.

As I said, I find Ewan to be a hard chap to classify. Let me try to elaborate:

He has absolutely no pre-pre-promote game, whatsoever. He can get an occasional kill once he's in the late T1, but he's got nothing for T0 and very little for most of T1.

The reason Ewan is going above such other units as Syrene and Knoll is if you baby Ewan, he can actually be worth it. If you feed Syrene all the kills between 17 and F, you end up with a flier worse than your other fliers. If you feed Knoll the kills to get 20/whatever Druid, you still have a worse caster than the other casters. If you grit your teeth and baby the shit out of Ewan, he can actually be a competitive unit. If Ewan came at his promoted stats, especially as a Druid, I'd probably rank him a 7.

Point is, Ewan has something to look forward to if you're willing to use him.

Out of curiosity, "stuck" with Dark magic?

[Parrhesia]

With that Con? Yeah.

[Integrity]

"That Con" is 7. Flux weighs 8.

EDIT: Some numbers, since I think this will garner a response while I'm eating dinner:

Ewan has a CON of 5, and gains +2 when he promotes to Shaman (M). He also gains +2 when he promotes to Mage (M). So, in either case, he has a CON of 7.

Fire doesn't weigh him down at all, has 40 uses, and a MT of 5.

Flux weighs him down by 1, has 45 uses, and a MT of 7.

If you try to use the bigger tomes, yes, Ewan is going to get hit HARD since Nosferatu and Luna weigh 12 and 14 to Thunder/Elfire's 6 and 10. HOWEVER, if you're feeding Ewan your good tomes instead of grinding him up on Fire/Flux, you're doing it wrong. Since Flux > Fire, and for the purposes of this discussion we're actually leveling Ewan, flux!Ewan > fire!Ewan.

EDIT2: I will grant, using Flux is quite a bit more expensive, being 20 gold per shot vice Fire's 14, but ...

Actually, I just did the numbers and finally for the first time realized that Flux is a *D* Dark magic. Why does Dark magic start at D? Am I doing it wrong, should I be comparing it to Thunder instead? A little extra number-crunching reveals that Thunder and Flux are the same efficiency, gold-wise - and Thunder has 1 extra MT plus 5 inherent crit and weighs less.

EDIT3: Of course, all this means is that mage!Ewan > shaman!Ewan, and I was assessing his potential end-game, since anything!Ewan is shitty until final promotion.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Integrity

[Rewjeo]

What? Ewan gets a 4.5 and you say that summoner is "lol" when it's his best choice? I'm inclined to greatly disagree with this rating topic. I kinda' want to start my own, but I wouldn't want to when you just started yours.

[Integrity]

What? Ewan gets a 4.5 and you say that summoner is "lol" when it's his best choice? I'm inclined to greatly disagree with this rating topic. I kinda' want to start my own, but I wouldn't want to when you just started yours.

Cool helpful post, bro. If you want a score to change you have to tell me why. What would incline me to believe Ewan's summoning skills are the best he possesses?

Edited March 30, 2010 by Integrity

[Rewjeo]

His combat is awful, so the odds are he isn't promoting even at 10/10/1 until near the end of the game. At that point, his own offense is so bad that the summon's can't be all that much worse (if at all) while reaching farther and having other uses.

[Integrity]

Ewan's combat is far from awful, IF he ever gets there. Ewan can actually catch up and become a useful unit, it just depends on how much you care to feed him those precious kills. Most of us, self included, never bother to give him what he needs to be successful, therefore he never sees his potential. Therefore arguing that Ewan won't promote to 10/10/1 until the endgame is like underrating Marisa because you didn't promote her until chapter 20 and she got devoured. If you actually try to level Ewan, he'll see much better than 10/10/1 by the endgame. If you don't try to level Ewan, he'll not see any usefulness.

Beyond that, I see no possible way even a 10/10/1 summoner!Ewan can be better than a 10/10/1 druid!Ewan or sage!Ewan or hell even mk!Ewan, unless you put some faith in the power of summons scouting in the one FOW map left after you recruit him?

Edited March 30, 2010 by Integrity

[_____]

Beyond that, I see no possible way even a 10/10/1 summoner!Ewan can be better than a 10/10/1 druid!Ewan or sage!Ewan or hell even mk!Ewan, unless you put some faith in the power of summons scouting in the one FOW map left after you recruit him?

Summons, mediocre combat, and terrible durability >>> Mediocre combat and terrible durability.

Knoll is Ewan if Ewan didn't need to be babied for 20 levels.

[Integrity]

Aright, I've done a little more numbers looking, and I'm willing to concede a few points here:

I'm definitely overrating Ewan's combat a little bit out of spite. He's certainly not awful, still, and those 20 levels you have to baby him for constitute three chapters, maybe. Granted, Ewan's a bit of a drain on your resources until he gets there - and that's another point to concede. I'll say Ewan can drop a point or two, but Ewan is still > Knoll, imho. I'll set him to 3.5, so he can get to sleeping with Syrene.

EDIT: Part of the problem is, Marisa is probably the last character I even give a shit about, so I'm writing up something long and rambling about characters I couldn't care less about, then arguing useless arguments because I'm right dammit! Anyway, to Saleh.

SALEH

Saleh's probably going to be our first unit worth using. Hooray!

Saleh...is...something. Saleh is that most over-represented of clases, a SAGE. Sages are pretty much always useful, and this actually balances Saleh's points instead of subtracting for being a pre-promote. The problem with Saleh, as with many of these later-game units, is why. Another caster? Lute and Artur do that nicely. Another staff user? He can actually fill that, except healers consist, at this point, of Lady L'Arachel, Natasha, and Fox Moulder - and have you promoted Artur or Lute? Probably? There's another one. Both? That's two, brosephs. Have you promoted any of the three healers? That's 1-3 more casters sitting on Bench #1.

So the problem with Saleh is that Saleh is redundant. Taken on his own terms, he's essentially Pent without an auto-A support and a brick of personality that would rival Aran if support conversations weren't around. Everything Saleh says or does story-line wise is flat. A little, shining, sparkling bit of personality comes out when he's talking to Gerik or wtfpimpEwan, but he's still bland. Gameplay-wise, he fulfills the same duties that, at this point, you're probably used to entrusting to Natasha and Lute. Saleh is flat, but Saleh is not bad. He's not hurting to have around - he uses whatever resource you throw at him nicely, just...not as well as someone else would.

Since the rest of him is so flat, I'm going to go with 5.0.

7.5

EDIT: And Saleh is updated.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Integrity

[_____]

He's certainly not awful

Ewan, at base, would be 3RKOing Fighters without doubling in the Prolouge while being left with 1 HP after being hit once.

Ewan joins in Chapter 12, though.

and those 20 levels you have to baby him for constitute three chapters, maybe.

10 levels*

He is not getting off 20 shots in 3 chapters, let alone getting 20 levels.

Granted, Ewan's a bit of a drain on your resources until he gets there - and that's another point to concede. I'll say Ewan can drop a point or two, but Ewan is still > Knoll, imho. I'll set him to 3.5, so he can get to sleeping with Syrene.

You're wrong.

You realize that Ewan becomes Knoll after intensive babying, but refuse to concede that Knoll is better without providing reasonings. If you're going to grade the characters subjectively instead of objectively, please note that in the first post. Otherwise, this list is wrong.

Edit: Derp, you did say that it was mostly biased. Ignore me.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Ninji

[Integrity]

Edit: Derp, you did say that it was mostly biased. Ignore me.

heh, I did. Biased doesn't mean I'm not open to debate, though. I see your points. I'm leaving Ewan at 3.5 because I allotted him an extra point for having a bunch of girlfriends. Maybe I could drop him to 3.0, though.

EDIT: ah, fuckit. I'm running this list tyrannically anyway. EWAN: DROP.

EDIT2: Saleh was too bland. I'll push out the next one tonight, methinks.

EDIT3: yay, the next one is Dozla. I'll be glad to get him out of the way.

DOZLA

GWAH HA HA

Dozla is, in many ways, like a Saleh with a spicy personality and poor stats. He also uses axes instead of magic. Actually, he's nothing like Saleh.

Now, bear in mind for this, I have BOTH a natural affinity for axes AND a very strong natural love for Berzerkers. So, to be quite blunt, all the factors are in Dozla's FAVOR here. My bias is working FOR the poor devil.

And yet, compared to anything, Dozla doesn't cut it. First thing I do is compare him to an exact replica: 10/20/1 zerk!Ross, which isn't terribly difficult by the time you recruit Dozla. By Chapter 12, Ross probably has some supports built up if you're using him, and Ross STILL crushes Dozla in almost every stat. Now, granted, this costs Colm the Ocean Seal, which isn't fun, so it's not that bad. Let's cut back and compare him to our other resident axer, Garcia, then? Garcia loses in SPD. By two points. Did I mention that that's counting Garcy going Warrior instead of Hero, at which point he beats Dozla in everything except the Berzerker crit bonus, and gets swords to boot? I even peg Garcia quite low on any list, and he's still more useful than Dozla is. Maybe, then, Integ's bias can manifest and grant his favorite weapon a couple points? His favorite class, even? No, and no. My other biases, which will begin to rear their ugly heads very shortly? I won't spoil what they are so I can see you all /RAEG in a couple of writeups, but they work very distinctly against Dozla too.

Dozla also has a silly name.

Dozla gets one point for yelling GWAH HA HA all the time, which puts him at 1.0

No, just kidding. He's a 3.0.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Integrity

[Junkhead]

Err, besides CON, Falcoknight is better than Wyvern Knight. Also, her MOV isn't THAT special. A list of units that could have high MOV: Seth, Franz, Kyle, Forde, Eirika, Ephraim, Lute, L'arachel, Natasha, Ewan, Amelia, Tana, Vanessa, Cormag. Probably forgot someone, too.

Exept Syrene is a flier, she could easily get fed those Gorgin eggs before they hatch for a HUGE ammount of EXP, IIRC, you can get a full level up by killing two of them, Syrene has that advantage, she's easier to train in that chapter.

Ewan also joins later (technically you can get Amelia in Hamill Canyon in Eirika's route, so that's a debatable point) So, essentially, in Chapter 12A/Chapter 12B, you can pick up a unit who is as powerful now, 10 chapters later, as ROSS was when you recruited him.

When debating, people usually take the best the game has to offer, in this case, it HAS to be Ephraim's route.

Mage Knight - Without the Canto of previous/later systems, it's hard to imagine a world where MK!Ewan is particularly desirable. He trades Light magic (lol.) and several stats for a pony and a ridiculously low MAG cap, which offsets a benefit I'll get to. On the ridiculous off-chance you have Ewan double-promoted by Chapter 15 he'll also be comically slowed in the desert instead of blazing around cockslappin' bitches like Master Saleh.

Actually, the Mag cap may be the lowest, but it IS garanteed to kill, he doesn't loose too much AS to an Elfire and non at all from a Thunder tome so he is garanteed to double quite a few things WHEN promoted to a MK. Saleh. Pent expy, nothing special really, Lute and Moulder are easily better, but I guess he isn't too bad.

Druid - OK, this isn't actually a bad choice. Druid v. Sage trades 1 DEF/RES and 1 SKL for 2 SPD and 1 MAG - making Ewan a better blaster. Additionally, he gets access to Dark and Anima magic, the best two of the triangle, and he's better than Knoll at using them.

The only bad I see from this one is his constant 1 AS loss before promotion, not too much things are doubling him.

As for his slightly more Def as a Mage, it isn't much of a difference when both a pretty fragile, it could borderline save him from some things.

The great thing about him being a Druid is his awesome +4 AS gain when promoting, don't forget his HIGH Atk, it's just hilarious. Wait wait, best part is, he CAN use Anima and will bear pretty high Con for a Thunder tome, later on, an Elfire.

Since I've been talked into Knoll > Ewan, Ewan has dropped to 2.5. He'd be less than Knoll, but he gets a point for pimping.

What...? :(

Ewan's durability will catch up easily to his', both concrete and when it comes to dodging, Ewan bears higher Spd & Luck, he is pretty much worth feeding kills seeing as you will be giving him Metis' Tomes, he will grow pretty good. I think his score shouldn't be as low as that. 3-4.5 was alright really.

Don't mind that, although, their Luck difference is very vast, and just look at Ewan's base Spd, it's -1 than Knoll's.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Soul

[Rewjeo]

Exept Syrene is a flier, she could easily get fed those Gorgin eggs before they hatch for a HUGE ammount of EXP, IIRC, you can get a full level up by killing two of them, Syrene has that advantage, she's easier to train in that chapter.

Err, yeah. So do all of those units I listed. The point was she isn't special.

[Anouleth]

I never understood why low magic cap is an issue. Magic is very strong and enemy resistance is generally very low, so even 25 magic will 2HKO the vast majority of enemies. What's more of an issue is reduced movement in C20 and the inability to equip Light magic against Gorgons to help against Stone.

Sending Ewan to Shaman is generally a terrible idea as well. I can see why the juicy promotion bonuses might be tempting, but Dark magic is terrible, it robs Ewan of both Light magic for defence and Excalibur for offense, and both Summoner and Druid start with a lousy E Rank in Staves, Sage and MK getting D Rank (still bad, Warp is still miles off, but he might get to use Physic one day).

Not that it matters. The fact is, if you really cripple your efficiency and feed him kills, Ewan will still be underlevelled forever, and will probably promote around C18 or something:

10/10/01 Ewan MK w/Thunder C Tethys C Saleh

29HP 23ATK 20CRIT 13AS 42AVO 6DEF 14RES

It's pretty bad. He's still doing worse than many people:

Level 1 Syrene w/Killing Edge

27HP 21ATK 36CRIT 15AS 42AVO 10DEF 12RES

11/01 L'arachel w/Lightning B Ephraim

25HP 17ATK 15CRIT 14AS 50AVO 8DEF 15RES

Level 6 Innes w/Killer Bow A Gerik

35HP 25ATK 44CRIT 17AS 65AVO 14DEF 13RES

And this is ignoring Ewan's long period of suck before this. You could make a case for him > L'arachel, I guess, but she has WTA against the dark magic users, beats him in durability, and will have higher staff rank, maybe even to use Warp or Physic.

So, in summary, Ewan sucks and he deserves to be placed low by Integ. Probably higher than Knoll, just because his combat is slightly better than Knoll's lolsummons.

[Junkhead]

Err, yeah. So do all of those units I listed. The point was she isn't special.

The point is, she comes at lvl 1, so it actually benefits HER to get those kills, they won't be counterattacking, so it's not like she's risking anything, the other units won't want it, they should be pretty well-leveled by now as well as too strong they won't need it.

[_____]

So, in summary, Ewan sucks and he deserves to be placed low by Integ. Probably higher than Knoll, just because his combat is slightly better than Knoll's lolsummons.

No, it isn't.

You can't make that case.

[Rewjeo]

The point is, she comes at lvl 1, so it actually benefits HER to get those kills, they won't be counterattacking, so it's not like she's risking anything, the other units won't want it, they should be pretty well-leveled by now as well as too strong they won't need it.

If anything, it benefits everyone else more as this is the one case where they get as much experience as Syrene. Everyone gets 50 EXP per egg.

[Junkhead]

But they don't need it, they are already strong enough.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

....Goddamnit reading this thread makes me want to pick up on where I left off on the FE8 Hard patch