Slize's Character Ranking Topic

[Rewjeo]

First off, my goal with this is to make a ranking topic that is as accurate as possibleforsomeoneasinexperiencedasme. So, if you feel as though there's something that I forgot or something that you disagree with, please bring it up.

10: Seth

9.5: Franz

9: Eir. Eirika

8.5:

8:

7.5: Moulder

7: Vanessa

6.5: Eirika

6: Gilliam, Garcia

5.5: Ross

5:

4.5:

4:

3.5:

3: Neimi (At the bottom of the first page. The link doesn't seem to be working)

2.5:

2:

1.5:

1.1:

1:

Eirika:

Quite frankly, I don't know a whole lot about Eirika. She's got huge availability. Even on Eph. she's there for ~75% of the game. She never takes a unit slot, either, what with being forced. And she's also got her rapier, which is especially useful earlygame when most of your units don't have great offense against knights and can't cleanly ORKO cavs. And she gets her own monster-effective sword later on. She also promotes fairly soon after your other units, unlike many other lords in this series. Outside of her effective weapons, her combat isn't great, but it isn't terrible, either.

Eirika Route: 9/10

Ephraim Route: 6.5/10

Seth:

Seth is arguably the best unit in any FE released in America. He starts out by far the best, has the best availability in the game, and comes out still one of your best by endgame. This guy is insane. The one argument against him is that he steals EXP. But the amount of turns he saves you outweighs the little EXP lost, easily. So really, you just need to be careful and makes sure you don't go crazy with him. Which I will assume with my score.

10/10

Franz:

Franz is also amazing. Earlygame, he's your second best unit. He's got the second best offense, second best defense (against axes, at least), and second best movement. All behind Seth. He's got good growths and a huge period of time over which to exercise them. He starts as one of you best and finishes as one of the best. He's also in arguably the best class- Cav->GK. That and the fact that he's got a few decent supports are just icing on the cake. There's really no way to go wrong with Franz. The only thing holding him back from a 10 is Seth.

9.5/10

Gilliam:

Just looking at Gilliam's stats, he looks pretty great. However, he's got some negatives. Chapters 2&3 are axe heavy, meaning that his durability isn't special and his offense drops to crap. Chapter 4, he's actually really good if he got speed. He's got the potential to double some of the revenants here, giving him great offense, all the while he's got great durability. This is also a chapter that ignores another one of his problems: 4 MOV. There are enemies absolutely everywhere, so he doesn't have to go far. However, farther down the road, it becomes a problem. He's slow to move with your army, and he's also slow for combat, so he'll only ever really hit hard once on things that aren't deathly slow. And promotion is a problem, too. He's competing with Franz, Kyle, and Forde for one of the 2-3 Knight Crests. And they're all great units. All in all, he's decent. He has troubles getting around, but he can take more than a few hits (bar chapters 2&3) and can set up kills for other people when he himself doesn't kill.

6/10

Edited April 2, 2010 by Slize

[Integrity]

I only wish there was a 9.75 for Franz to live in, above everybody and below Seth. Since that's silly, I can only ask for you to give us more at this point tbh.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Integrity

[Rewjeo]

I agree. But I don't want to put him too close to Seth, so...

Moulder:

Moulder was, for a long time, considered to be amazing. However, people recently realized that healers level really slowly in this game. So all he's got is healing before your other mage units promote and get decent staff ranks. And if he ever does promote, it'll be late enough that he really doesn't get to do much with it. So all he's really got is being your only healer in 3, 4, & 5 and then being one of your only two through chapter 11. At which point he's still pretty likely to be you second healer since Natasha/Saleh won't be in play together (I'll address later) and lolL'arachel. So, he's pretty good for healing, but nothing amazing.

7.5/10

Vanessa:

I think people are going to seriously disagree with this, but oh, well, it's up for discussion. Many people consider her almost as good as Franz. They base this off of flier utility and +5 ATK/DEF from supports w/ Lute and Moulder. However, her supports are insanely slow. To give you an idea, it's pushing it for her to get a C with both of them by the route split if you have them end EVERY turn together. So she's either got decent combat (I'll go into her normal combat later) or flier utility. Flier utility consists of saving Ross/Garcia/Lute earlygame, saving the citizens in chapter 6 (if you care), grabbing the rapier in 9A (which Tana, who's forced, can do anyways), ferrying people in 15/17 and maybe 20. And that's all that there really is that doesn't involve combat, which she isn't great at, as I will explain. Chapter 2-3 are absolutely terrible. IIRC, she like 5HKOs enemies at poor hit and gets 2HKOd at high hit. And she can't use terrain thanks to flying. So she's going into chapter 4 with similar combat to Colm, who's combat is pretty poor. And she's got generally worse combat growths than him. So, if she wants to contribute as a combat unit, she can't be totally glued to her partners, meaning I'm seeing C Moulder at ~10, C lute at ~11, and then maybe Bs for endgame. So, in the end, she'll come out a bit better than Colm combat wise. With nothing else to her name. You can take whichever one you want, but I don't think either are all that good.

7/10

Edited April 2, 2010 by Slize

[Integrity]

Many people consider her almost as good as Franz.

wait, seriously? People think Vanessa == Franz?

[CATS]

People also think Vanessa can have 5 ranks of anima x anima supports by Ch 10 and that those supports are always in range.

In reality, I'd say Slize's original score is more accurate than a 9.5, though I would still rank Vanessa over Gilliam. Vanessa's combat isn't anything special, but at least she can get out there and do something with it. lol4move

[Integrity]

Build supports via the Tower and totally invalidate all rankings! Free 8+ for everybody! Wheeeeeeee!

Otherwise, damned if I know how to get Vanessa rocking more than one C by C10. I had her running a Lute B, but I had Vanessa camp in the square next to her while I ground the shit out of the C5 Arena, so that doesn't count at all.

[Anouleth]

I think he's underrating Moulder and Vanessa a bit, and Gilliam is too high, but it's nothing critical.

I find Gilliam's bad move just crippling. It's not hard to steamroll through many chapters, and when Gilliam plods along at 4 move I question his ability to contribute. I don't think there's any question that if he's played, the first Knight Crest goes to him, but he needs to accept the cost of hurting Franz (Forde and Kyle can take later Crests).

[Rewjeo]

Hmm, I see what you guys mean. Vanessa to a 7 and Gill to a 6 for now. I don't want to make any drastic changes to their scores without more in depth discussion, though.

And as for people thinking she's almost as good as Franz, go look at the tier list. She's currently placed below Franz and above Colm.

Ross:

Ross joins in chapter 2 at effectively level -10. This means that, while he's by no means good early on, he gets 30+ EXP just for chipping. Not only that, but his chipping can put people where they can ORKO. So, while his earlygame isn't all that good, it isn't as awful as it might seem. Now, thanks to that, he should have no trouble promoting by the route split at all. At this point, while he still isn't great, he's pretty good. He hits hard, and has decent durability. However, he has the same trouble as Gilliam: LOW SPEED. He basically won't ever double. Fortunately, if he goes Zerker (which he should) then he'll have 45 + SKL/2 crit, giving him a decent shot at OHKOing. He can also grab Garm for +5 SPD at the end of the game. All in all, Ross has a pretty good start since he can contribute with just his chips and stays decent throughout the game.

5.5/10

Garcia:

Garcia joins with his son, and is much better at the start. He's got a ton of HP (as much as base Seth) so even with his lackluster DEF he's pretty durable. He hits really hard, although he doesn't double a whole lot. Early on, he's one of your better units. However, he's got crap for SPD growth, meaning that even with Hero, he'll need a speedwing just to avoid potential doubles, let alone doubling himself. He never really becomes great, unlike most units, and instead just slowly becomes a poor unit near the end of the game. However, he's great at first and stays good for a while. He just has little late game potential, even with Garm.

6/10

Edited April 2, 2010 by Slize

[Integrity]

Ross joins in chapter 2 at effectively level -10.

I actually laughed at this.

WRT Ross: I think Ross > Garcia for sure. Garcia is contributing a decently hard punch for the first few chapters, while moving almost as slow as Gilliam and having a worse SPD growth. Yeah. Gilliam is also significantly harder to hurt, allowing him to plod up the left side of C5 on his own, or essentially camp C9 while [insert mage] blasts everything over him. So I've actually said nothing about Ross, but Garcia < Gilliam.

Now Ross gets to level 1 fairly fast, especially considering the chapter after you recruit him is easily blockable by Gills or even Garcia while Ross gets chip hits in. At this point, nobody except Ross is going to get any chip damage anyway because you're probably not raising Neimi. Additionally, the chapter after that is Artur's Chapter, and those zombies are particularly squishy to Ross's hatchet, meaning he might even be able to get some kills in. Ross can be level 1 before 5x, in fact, but I'm willing to debate how feasible that is. C7 is probably more likely. From the time Ross gets to 1 he starts destroying Garcia in everything and has a future that he has time to attain, unlike the other two Trainees. Plus, going Berzerker uses the Ocean Seal and saves the Hero Crest for Gerik instead of Garcia, and Gerik is winsome.

EDIT: Future-proofing this: yes, I know Colm wants the Ocean Seal, but if Ross is in any position to promote then he's using it way better than thiefy mcthief.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Integrity

[_____]

I think both Vanessa and Moulder need to be bumped up a little higher than that. Even if Vanessa and Moulder have both dropped, a .5 difference between Garcia and those two is largely inaccurate.

[Parrhesia]

Earlygame, he's your second best unit. He's got the second best offense, second best defense (against axes, at least), and second best movement. All behind Seth.

To throw in an EverQuest (1) analogy, Franz is the Troll Warrior.

Ratings are looking solid so far. Gilliam is godly in that chapter with the Bael eating the villagers...if he's level 15. Hilarious to watch, just soloing 90% of the map while Franz takes out a hit on the boss.

But yeah, Gilliam's just so goddamn slow.

[Rewjeo]

I'd prefer to drop Garcia to get him away from Vanessa/Moulder if anything. I didn't realize at the time how close he was to them when I rated him. What do other people think? Garcia down or Vanessa/Moulder up, or both, or maybe some of both?

[Anouleth]

Garcia down.

[Parrhesia]

Vanessa up. Maybe drop Garcia .5.

[Integrity]

Garcia down, Gilliam up, Vanessa/Moulder up each .5.

Is it wrong of me to make these statements when I have my own rankings topic?

[BBM]

Ross at Pirate by Chapter 5 is perfectly feasible. In fact, him being so by Chapter 7 is just too late. He starts getting doubled, if I'm not mistaken. Of course...

No Speedwing.

Now, I get him to Pirate by Chapter 4, which probably isn't (no BAing).

Edited April 1, 2010 by BigBangMeteor

[Anouleth]

Ross at Pirate by Chapter 5 is perfectly feasible. In fact, him being so by Chapter 7 is just too late. He starts getting doubled, if I'm not mistaken. Of course...

No Speedwing.

Now, I get him to Pirate by Chapter 4, which probably isn't (no BAing).

Chapter 5 is reasonable. He can snag some actual kills in C4, there are plenty of enemies and he makes better use of the EXP than most people.

[Rewjeo]

I'll make changes when I'm not so lazy.

Neimi:

Neimi doesn't have a lot going for her. All she has is player phase for a long time, and hers isn't great. She's performing almost identically to Ross. Only he gains experience way faster than her. And up till now, Ross had had the worst offense on the team. And since she does so little damage, she'll have trouble killing things and that means she'll grow slowly thanks to not being level -10. I'm seeing her at ~10/1 in chapter 11-12. And 24 HP/15 ATK/7 DEF is not good in chapter 11/12. Now, she actually has a good strength growth, growing sword rank, and good access to Nidhogg, but her durability will always be bad. 3/10

Edit: 900 EXP in three chapters? That's three levels per chapter. Chapter 7 is far more reasonable.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Slize

[Integrity]

Ross is getting 30 for a chip and 100 for a kill, Slize. 900 XP in three chapters is about the outside of reasonable, but it's certainly not inconceivable.

BBM: Sure, Ross at level 7 isn't a fun concept, but you're proving my point for me :P

[BBM]

No, I'm not, because he's not newly promoted at 7. He's newly promoted at 5. It's like saying that a base Ike has some problems against Ashera. Obviously he does. But why is he at base?

It's not 3 levels each chapter either. The second chapter has walls, and he has a ranged weapon. He gets the bulk of his exp in that chapter, for me. In fact, if you reaaally abuse him, he can get to 10 in that chapter before even reaching the boss. Not that I'm promoting that.

[_____]

I see one, maybe two enemies that Ross can reasonably attack, not kill, because his offense is ass and you can only get one shot off at a time in this chapter. He gets huge Hit EXP, but I see him getting two levels here at most.

[Rewjeo]

Agreeing w/ Ninji. We aren't looping around, we're blowing through the walls. He isn't getting >2 levels there, and probably only 1. In chapter 2, there's no way he's getting more than one level. I can see him getting plenty of EXP in 4, but there's no way he's getting 6+ levels. I see him hitting ten part way through 6, maybe at the end of 5 if you really push it. But you also have to take into account that he's leveling more and more slowly as he gets more EXP.

Colm:

Colm has pretty similar combat to Vanessa for most of the game, and she's got a 7. So, he's already sitting on a 6.5/7 before we even count what he's best for: thieving. He gets us a wyrmslayer, a runesword, a spear, a dragonspear, a tomohawk, a bolting, eclipse, a fenrir, hammerne, warp, silence, fortify, Meris' tome, SILVER CARD, Member Card (potentially), THREE Angelic Robes, two Energy Rings, a Secret Book, two Speedwings, a goddess icon, a dragonshield, two talismans, both body rings, swiftsole, a knight crest, an Elysian Whip, two guiding rings, the Ocean Seal, a Master Seal. The list goes on and on.

9.5/10

Edited April 2, 2010 by Slize

[Integrity]

I REALLY don't think it's fair to count the Desert items in Colm's tally. Anybody can grab them free, he just does it easier - and you have Rennac at this point, who also grabs them automatically and free.

Colm's still probably a 9.5, but not for the Desert.

[Rewjeo]

Okay, how about he gets 40-45% credit for those items? Half off for Rennac and some more for other units picking them up. Although I might point out that, at this point, Vanessa's your best bet for picking them up (flier with good luck) and she's still only got ~14% chance.

[Integrity]

Sure, but honestly I don't think it matters. Colm's a 9.5 whichever way this swings, ya know?