IS REAAAALLY loved wyverns in this game

[OrangeCrush980]

Source: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=932999&topic=54206678

Proof; a conversation between two of the producers that I received. Unfortunately I don't know their names, so I'll simply dub them Jay and Leno.

Jay: Hey, let's make wyverns awesome in this game.

Leno: Cool, but how are we gonna do that?

Jay: Well, the first thing we'll do is make them 10 times better than pegasus. We'll make bows called crossbows, which are 1-2 range and will have a ridiculous amount of mt and hit, and since weapon mt is tripled when it's used against an effective target, it will kill in one shot with no chance to avoid, and then we'll have crossbows ignore the user's str to make people think we aren't making these weapons just to make the pegasus worse.

Leno: Wait, how is that going to help wyverns?

Jay: Because we won't make them weak to bows anymore. Instead we'll make them weak to thunder magic, which we will nerf to hell and back. We'll make thunder have such horrible mt that it barely does any extra damage even with tripled mt, and then we'll also give it terrible hit so it won't even connect often either, and then we'll give it a little bit of crit to make people think we aren't purposely sandbagging it.

Leno: Well, that's only against crossbows. You can only have so many bow enemies in the game. I don't think changing their weakness is really going to make wyverns significantly better.

Jay: Right, so let's extend it even more. We'll have wyverns use axes, which will be the best weapon type in the game, because it has the most mt and decent hit in a game where 95% of the weapons have ridiculous hit and authority stars around everywhere to boost hit even more, and access to hammers because enemy generals are the toughest enemies to kill in the game, and axes are extremely cheap so they're inexpensive to forge. Then we'll have pegasus use lances, which are okay but are ridiculously expensive, and have access to horseslayer which is nearly pointless because enemy paladins will be among the weakest enemies in the game.

Leno: Well, even with that, pegasus and wyverns are usually balanced in stats, right? The pegasus are the fast ones and the wyverns are the strong ones.

Jay: Right, so let's change that by altering their caps. We'll give wyverns a LOT more HP, str, AND def, and then we'll give the pegasus only slightly more spd to compensate, and then we'll give it more mag, skl, lck, and res to make people think we aren't purposely favoring wyverns, despite the fact that those four stats are nearly worthless. And since we use the trend where females have more spd than males, let's make female wyverns have almost the exact same spd as pegasus for no adequately explored reason, and still win by a lot of str and def. In fact, let's go even further; let's give male wyverns a higher str and def cap than generals and still win every other stat!

Leno: Wait, but that doesn't make any intuitive sense. Why would wyverns beat generals in everything? Wouldn't that make generals obsolete?

Jay: Don't question me!

Leno: And caps aren't everything. What about the units in the specific classes?

Jay: Right, so we'll make Haar one of the wyverns, who will be the best unit in the game. We'll make him around forever with godly stats, and not only that, he will be the only flier you have for several chapters that force the player to use a flier anyway, just as a safety net in case we don't sufficiently overkill his stats enough. Hell, his first chapter is something he can solo on his own, to give the players a taste of what Haar will do for the rest of the game. We'll also have Jill, but since she's with the Dawn Brigade and they're supposed to be terrible, we can't really overkill her stats, but we can make her their only flier too other than a unit who only competes with her for two chapters. On the other hand, the three pegasus will hardly ever be around, and then we'll also give them garbage stats too. We'll make Marcia have one of the worst str growths in the game, and we'll give Sigrun the worst growths in the game period!

Leno: I see... so we'll make pegasus face extremely powerful weapons that can OHKO them in one shot and wyverns will face wimpy weapons that barely do more damage than normal, and we'll give wyverns a weapon type that is way better than what pegasus will get, and then we'll also give wyverns far better caps and units in the class that are ridiculouslly overpowered when compared to the pegasus?

Jay: Right.

Leno: Damn, and I thought paladins in FE9 were overpowered. We're going to make wrecking machines in this game!

[ReformBlade]

I cannot tell a lie, I lol'd.

[Phoenix]

Heheheheheh....

Yeah wyverns rule B)

[Integrity]

Not as good as the Duessel one. I always liked his FE8 stuff most.

Still decent. Smash was a funny guy when he wasn't el srs.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Integrity

[NinjaMonkey]

Then we'll have pegasus use lances, which are okay but are ridiculously expensive, and have access to horseslayer which is nearly pointless because enemy paladins will be among the weakest enemies in the game.

But Pegasus Knights use lances anyway...

[Lilmik11]

Haar is so overrated!Yes he is godly in part 3,but in part 4,he's completely obsolete because of his bad speed that tend to NEVER grow.But Pegasus Knight aren't THAT bad.In fact,Marcia is pretty good!

[Adam Smasher]

I thought this was going to be about how there's a ton of Wyvern enemies in this game. I dunno, in FE7 and FE8 you seem to go through half the game without seeing a wyvern, and then in FE9 they're more common, and FE10 they're all over the place.

I guess they took out the enemy pegasi because they were so easy to kill. I loved when pegasus reinforcements popped in during FE7 because they always had like 17 HP and defense of 5. Anyone could kill them! Of course you have Wil and Rebecca as the natural choice. Then there's those worthless sacks of meat Dorcas and Bartre who couldn't hit anything but they ate pegasi for breakfast. Of course I never used them, and I'd transfer Dorcas's axe to Marcus early on. Marcus's usefulness wans dramatically after the first 3 chapsters, but he'll at least kill pegasi. You think with low def and HP they have high avoid or at least high res, right? Nope! Send in Lucius or hell, even Erk to waste them from range. Lastly, if you can't come up with anyone else, there's Hector, but he owns the game.

[Krad]

Haar is so overrated!Yes he is godly in part 3,but in part 4,he's completely obsolete because of his bad speed that tend to NEVER grow.

Bull.

His low speed can double in 4-P, and he's among your most valuable units in 4-3 due to desert. He's not very useful in Endgame, sure, but in 4-E-1 he can use a Hammer, and he can use the Brave Axe from 4-E-3 on.

[ReformBlade]

Bull.

His low speed can double in 4-P, and he's among your most valuable units in 4-3 due to desert. He's not very useful in Endgame, sure, but in 4-E-1 he can use a Hammer, and he can use the Brave Axe from 4-E-3 on.

Hey, calm down. Did you see the person's Avatar? It's obviously Astrid taking her anger out on another character. Why? Because she fell for Makalov, and she just now realized it...

[Lilmik11]

Hey, calm down. Did you see the person's Avatar? It's obviously Astrid taking her anger out on another character. Why? Because she fell for Makalov, and she just now realized it...

I loled so hard at your explanation!I just used this avatar because I loved how good Astrid was in POR(unlike in RD).To reply to the person before you,maybe he can be useful because of flying in 4-3,but never doubling with 25-27 AS(I know PEMN,but he never got past 27 AS for me.And what about a speedwing you say?He's not the one who deserve it the most,when you have Micaiah and Sanaki around)isn't that useful,and giving him the Brave Axe for endgame is just favoritism when you could use Jill(If you trained her,which isn't so hard because of 4-5),who can kill an enemy without needing favoritism,and she would be really more efficient with the Brave Axe than Haar(She easily caps speed,which is 35,and that's a pretty good cap!So she could hit probably all the ennemies four time).

EDIT:But I can agree that he can double in 4-P

Edited April 4, 2010 by Lilmik11

[Krad]

he can be useful because of flying in 4-3,but never doubling with 25-27 AS

He averages ~27 SPD at 20/8 (The level I usually have him around 4-3), so 27 AS is fine. If tou give him a Speedwing earlier on, he can double all the 25 AS or less enemies (There are around 20, not counting reinforcements).

And what about a speedwing you say?He's not the one who deserve it the most,when you have Micaiah and Sanaki around)

Giving Sanaki a speedwing means it has to rot in the convoy for all of part 3. Even then, --/5 Sanaki (Which I think is an exaggeration) has 26 AS with a Wind tome + the Speedwing. If Haar is not doubling anything, neither is Sanaki.

Micaiah is also a lost case by this point in terms of speed. 20/15 Micaiah (Again, exaggeration) has 22 AS with the Speedwing. Ugh.

Of the 2 speedwings you have by 3-2, Haar is one of the best users of it, along Titania and (T) Boyd.

And giving him the Brave Axe for endgame is just favoritism when you could use Jill(If you trained her,which isn't so hard because of 4-5)

Since Jill can double normally, she can use any other weapon and get about the same results as Haar with the Brave. Also, I think she's much better going with Micaiah, but meh.

who can kill an enemy without needing favoritism and she would be really more efficient with the Brave Axe than Haar(She easily caps speed,which is 35,and that's a pretty good cap!So she could hit probably all the ennemies four time).

I already said that Haar isn't one of the best units for Endgame. I'm just showing that he's far from obsolete in part 4, and he can still be useful in Endgame with the right weapon.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Krad

[Lilmik11]

He averages ~27 SPD at 20/8 (The level I usually have him around 4-3), so 27 AS is fine. If tou give him a Speedwing earlier on, he can double all the 25 AS or less enemies (There are around 20, not counting reinforcements).

Giving Sanaki a speedwing means it has to rot in the convoy for all of part 3. Even then, --/5 Sanaki (Which I think is an exaggeration) has 26 AS with a Wind tome + the Speedwing. If Haar is not doubling anything, neither is Sanaki.

Micaiah is also a lost case by this point in terms of speed. 20/15 Micaiah (Again, exaggeration) has 22 AS with the Speedwing. Ugh.

Of the 2 speedwings you have by 3-2, Haar is one of the best users of it, along Titania and (T) Boyd.

Since Jill can double normally, she can use any other weapon and get about the same results as Haar with the Brave. Also, I think she's much better going with Micaiah, but meh.

I already said that Haar isn't one of the best units for Endgame. I'm just showing that he's far from obsolete in part 4, and he can still be useful in Endgame with the right weapon.

First,I think that making a Dawn Brigade unit T3 during part 4 with Micaiah's group is reasonably impossible,except if you're in EM or you have a lot of BEXP to dump.Second,A speedwing could be useful for Micaiah for NOT getting doubled,and giving favoritism to a unit like Haar is just not efficient.Third,WTF Sanaki LV.5 with 26 AS?!She finished my last playthrough with 28 AS!And why the hell would she use a WIND TOME when she have Cymbeline,a specialised tome for her?!Anyway,there is other people who could use a speedwing,like for exemple,Soren.He is doubling fine,but when 4-E-2 shows up,he's not doubling everything.And there is also Ilyana who could use it!You see,there is other people that could use a speedwing as good as him.Last,if I'm not mistaken,four hitting everything(35 AS)with Jill is reasonably killing everything(35 STR).

[_____]

First,I think that making a Dawn Brigade unit T3 during part 4 with Micaiah's group is reasonably impossible,except if you're in EM or you have a lot of BEXP to dump.

Then Jill would be worse than Haar in every parameter in the endgame. You just argued against yourself.

Second,A speedwing could be useful for Micaiah for NOT getting doubled,and giving favoritism to a unit like Haar is just not efficient.

Healing requires Micaiah to be attacked? This is news to me. Giving a Speedwing to Haar is efficient, as it obviously helps him out.

Third,WTF Sanaki LV.5 with 26 AS?!She finished my last playthrough with 28 AS!

cool story bro

Anyway,there is other people who could use a speedwing,like for exemple,Soren.He is doubling fine,but when 4-E-2 shows up,he's not doubling everything.And there is also Ilyana who could use it!You see,there is other people that could use a speedwing as good as him.Last,if I'm not mistaken,four hitting everything(35 AS)with Jill is reasonably killing everything(35 STR).

Ilyana and Soren have terrible speed caps that stop them from doubling in 4-E. You've said yourself that Jill won't reach a reasonable level in Part 4.

By the way, use your spacebar.

[NinjaMonkey]

And why the hell would she use a WIND TOME when she have Cymbeline,a specialised tome for her?!

Because it's really heavy and she has low strength (2 Str at base level).

[Krad]

First,I think that making a Dawn Brigade unit T3 during part 4 with Micaiah's group is reasonably impossible,except if you're in EM or you have a lot of BEXP to dump.

When did I ever mention getting a DB unit to tier 3? I mentioned Micaiah as 20/15, which is tier 2. Again, I said that was an exaggeration, as she probably is lower (20/8 or so).

Second,A speedwing could be useful for Micaiah for NOT getting doubled,and giving favoritism to a unit like Haar is just not efficient.

Getting Haar to double earlier is VERY useful, as it helps you get maps cleared earlier. After part 1, Micaiah should just chill in the backlines, spamming physics and such. She doesn't can shouldn't ever get near the frontlines unless its absolutely needed (Using the restore staff is the only thing that comes to my mind).

Third,WTF Sanaki LV.5 with 26 AS?!She finished my last playthrough with 28 AS!

http://serenesforest.net/fe10/average/sanaki.html

At level --/4 she has 24,4 speed. With a Speedwing, it turns into 26.

And why the hell would she use a WIND TOME when she have Cymbeline,a specialised tome for her?!

At base level, she has 23 SPD and 2 STR. Using Wind keeps her at 23 AS, while using Cymbeline gets her down to 20 AS. It takes until --/9 Sanaki to stop getting weighted down by Cymbeline. I guess you could forge her a Fire tome if you wanted to, though.

Anyway,there is other people who could use a speedwing,like for exemple,Soren.He is doubling fine,but when 4-E-2 shows up,he's not doubling everything.

Soren's speed is horrible. First, he has a 23 SPD tier 2 cap. Since he's probably promoting around 3-11/3-E, I double he would be higher than 20/3 for part 4. 25 AS only doubles a few Thunder Sages in 4-1. And it gets worse, since enemies grow AS quicker than him. To double at 4-E-2, he needs a minimum of 32 AS if he wishes to double something else aside from Generals. Anything faster than 28 AS he can't double. Ever. 4-E-3 is a joke regarding AS, and he's not doubling spirits aside from the Thunder ones. lolAuras.

And there is also Ilyana who could use it!

Ilyana is even worse than Soren in the speed area. She stops doubling anything after 4-E-3, and she can only get Generals in 4-E-2.

You see,there is other people that could use a speedwing as good as him.

Yes, Titania, (T) Boyd and Ike if he gets SPD screwed.

Last,if I'm not mistaken,four hitting everything(35 AS)with Jill is reasonably killing everything(35 STR).

Yes, but why use 4 hits of the Brave Axe, when she gets the same result with something like the Urvan? (The only ones she misses with it are the 52 HP/ 32 DEF ones)

EDIT: FFFFFFFFF I'm too slow typing.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Krad

[Lilmik11]

When did I ever mention getting a DB unit to tier 3? I mentioned Micaiah as 20/15, which is tier 2. Again, I said that was an exaggeration, as she probably is lower (20/8 or so).

Getting Haar to double earlier is VERY useful, as it helps you get maps cleared earlier. After part 1, Micaiah should just chill in the backlines, spamming physics and such. She doesn't can shouldn't ever get near the frontlines unless its absolutely needed (Using the restore staff is the only thing that comes to my mind).

http://serenesforest.net/fe10/average/sanaki.html

At level --/4 she has 24,4 speed. With a Speedwing, it turns into 26.

At base level, she has 23 SPD and 2 STR. Using Wind keeps her at 23 AS, while using Cymbeline gets her down to 20 AS. It takes until --/9 Sanaki to stop getting weighted down by Cymbeline. I guess you could forge her a Fire tome if you wanted to, though.

Soren's speed is horrible. First, he has a 23 SPD tier 2 cap. Since he's probably promoting around 3-11/3-E, I double he would be higher than 20/3 for part 4. 25 AS only doubles a few Thunder Sages in 4-1. And it gets worse, since enemies grow AS quicker than him. To double at 4-E-2, he needs a minimum of 32 AS if he wishes to double something else aside from Generals. Anything faster than 28 AS he can't double. Ever. 4-E-3 is a joke regarding AS, and he's not doubling spirits aside from the Thunder ones. lolAuras.

Ilyana is even worse than Soren in the speed area. She stops doubling anything after 4-E-3, and she can only get Generals in 4-E-2.

Yes, Titania, (T) Boyd and Ike if he gets SPD screwed.

Yes, but why use 4 hits of the Brave Axe, when she gets the same result with something like the Urvan? (The only ones she misses with it are the 52 HP/ 32 DEF ones)

EDIT: FFFFFFFFF I'm too slow typing.

About the Urvan part,it's not like she's the only one who would benefit from it.There is Boyd and ESPECIALLY Nolan who could use it well.About Ilyana,I agree,she is speed screwed,she really needs Blossom AND a speedwing for her stats,you need to baby her A LOT,but that's not my point.About Soren,he could benefit from it more than Titania:Yes,she doesn't double everything from the start,but I tink it's just a waste to give it to her.She will double everything later on.There is also Mist who could use:She's starting at level 1,she's doubling some ennemies from 3-P and 3-1,and she suddenly stops doubling.A speedwing could help her.

About the Sanaki part,I agree,I was mistaken,I should have ckecked her starting stats.

[chococoke]

Not as good as the Duessel one. I always liked his FE8 stuff most.

Still decent. Smash was a funny guy when he wasn't el srs.

Duessel one? Link?

EDIT: Found it, nevermind. Good reads.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Chococoke

[Krad]

About the Urvan part,it's not like she's the only one who would benefit from it.There is Boyd and ESPECIALLY Nolan who could use it well.

For Endgame we have 2 Hammers, the Brave Axe, the Urvan and we can make a million Forges. If Boyd was trained and hit his STR cap (40), he can just grab a Silver Axe forge and do better than what Jill does with the Urvan. Nolan can use it well, sure, but he would prefer a Hammer if we still have it.

About Ilyana,I agree,she is speed screwed,she really needs Blossom AND a speedwing for her stats,you need to baby her A LOT,but that's not my point.

The ponit is that she never doubles. Her speed is awful, and even if her gets to her caps, her caps suck too. Also she is probably underleveled when she gets to the GM, making her nearly useless.

About Soren,he could benefit from it more than Titania:Yes,she doesn't double everything from the start,but I tink it's just a waste to give it to her.

Soren goes from 18 AS to 20 AS. Still doesn't double. Did I mention his speed cap is horrible? That's one of his 3 problems in the Speed department (Low base, low growth and low cap. IS hates mages).

She will double everything later on.

Most of the time, immediate benefit > later benefit. The sooner you get units to double, the better results you get.

There is also Mist who could use:She's starting at level 1,she's doubling some ennemies from 3-P and 3-1,and she suddenly stops doubling.A speedwing could help her.

She has 15 AS at base. Not even on EM do enemies have 11 AS. 17 AS (With a speedwing) doesn't double anything either. Also, her damage output is very bad. Seriously.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Ilyana is even worse than Soren in the speed area. She stops doubling anything after 4-E-3,

What? She stops doubling anything after part 1!

[Integrity]

What? She stops doubling anything after part 1!

After part 1? I babied the shit out of Ilyana and she stopped doubling things in 1-E.

SHE WAS EVEN A SAGE FFS!

Pfeh.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Yeah, she seriously sucks in this game. She was actually alright to pretty good in PoR. I tried to raise her up once so i could Rexbolt stuff and because i wanted a mage on the DB team in part 4. Alas! Earwax! Totally pointless. Micaiah had better speed. D:

[Krad]

What? She stops doubling anything after part 1!

It was meant to be "She stops doubling anything after 4-E-3 even with capped SPD". My mistake for not writing every word that I should.

[Narga_Rocks]

It was meant to be "She stops doubling anything after 4-E-3 even with capped SPD". My mistake for not writing every word that I should.

But if you cap her speed (and get near capped in mag) then she can still use Nasir to ORKO spirits from 10 spaces out. Only Soren can do this better than her because the other sages tend to get less mag than Ilyana. Of course, Calill can use Rexflame to pull it off at 1-2 range, but still. Not saying it's a great thing, but it is something.

[whase]

to get back to the wyverns, I'm currently doing a lord and beorc fliers only PT.

soloing with Haar (was waiting for blossom to get easy speed for Ike) was quite easy at first.

now, I'm somewhere around 3-8 or so, Haar is lvl. --/20/20 and capped everything except for resistance.

Ike is lvl. --/20 and capped HP, skill and def. with 28 speed.

now it's already getting hard (I'm on easy mode) Ike quite easily dies, and Haar is being held up by lots of 2-range enemies.

in my lords and SM's only PT, I never seemed to have this problem. I wonder why...

[dondon151]

How can that possibly be hard on EM? Give Haar 3 Hand Axes. Problem solved.