Lunar is SO broken

[Ansem]

I am playing FE4 and Holyn is the only one that can damage anyone.

Macbeth is a bitch to kill so i used Holyn

He activated Lunar twice and slayed Macbeth

Lunar really should be on the list of best skills

[Tables]

Luna is only good against high defence enemies. Most of the time, Astra (Star Sword? I don't remember) is better, since 5*(attack-enemy defence) > attack in most cases.

[Ansem]

Which just happen to be most of the bosses in the game

[Junkhead]

Not really.

[Ansem]

Most of the bosses in that game are either Generals or Barons

[Tables]

Even then, what kind of stats do you need the boss to have for it to be effective?...

[spoiler=Maths inside]

Let a = attack, d = enemy defence.

For astra to be better than Luna:

5a-5d > a

So 4a > 5d

a > 5d/4

Astra is the better option if your attack (including weapon might) is 25% more than the opponents defence. Most swords that are being used have about 12 mt or so. Bosses in 1st gen vary around about 15-20 defence, mostly on the lower end of that. Even assuming 20 defence, you'd only need 13 STR for Astra to be better than Luna. Ayra gets that at level 14, which she'll easilly be before any 20 DEF bosses, and Holyn has it at base.

Astra > Luna.

[Ansem]

I really dont remeber saying Luna was better then Astra

How about Luna AND Astra

[Tables]

Oh, that's what I thought you were implying from your last post.

Shame they can't activate together :(.

[Ansem]

They cant?

I was going to pair Ayra with Holyn too :(

Edited April 9, 2010 by Kai

[Dr. Tarrasque]

This thread has just made Lunar and Holyn x Ayra kids more overrated than they were.

[Tables]

You can have both on one child, and both can activate, but you can't have a Luna hit in the middle of an Astra round. I'm not sure if they can critical, but if they can, criticals are better than Luna anyway, so 5 hits of Astra + 100 kill weapon + 30 skill = 99.97% chance of a critical

[Ansem]

Meh its better for them to have separate children

Patty needs lunar so you guessed who i'm pairing

[Dr. Tarrasque]

You can have both on one child, and both can activate, but you can't have a Luna hit in the middle of an Astra round. I'm not sure if they can critical, but if they can, criticals are better than Luna anyway, so 5 hits of Astra + 100 kill weapon + 30 skill = 99.97% chance of a critical

They can.

Astra > Sol > Critical > Luna.

[chrysalid]

What are the "rules" for all the sword skills and continue and critical in FE4? I always turn off animations so I don't really know exactly what's going on :)

Like:

Can Meteor/Solar/Lunar trigger on a pursuit hit? On a continue hit? Can critical trigger on any hit?

What skills can trigger simultaneously? What skills can't? Which skill have priority when they can't both trigger?

I noticed that the lover/sibling type critical, if the character doesn't have the critical skill, only seems to go off during the non-pursuit part of a player phase attack (never during enemy phase countering or I *think* the pursuit hit - not sure on that one since the critical usually kills anyway). Is the lover/sibling bonus always working if the character does have the critical skill/a critical-enabled weapon?

Edited April 9, 2010 by chrysalid

[Fei Mao]

What are the "rules" for all the sword skills and continue and critical in FE4? I always turn off animations so I don't really know exactly what's going on :)

Like:

Can Meteor/Solar/Lunar trigger on a pursuit hit? On a continue hit? Can critical trigger on any hit?

What skills can trigger simultaneously? What skills can't? Which skill have priority when they can't both trigger?

I noticed that the lover/sibling type critical, if the character doesn't have the critical skill, only seems to go off during the non-pursuit part of a player phase attack (never during enemy phase countering or I *think* the pursuit hit - not sure on that one since the critical usually kills anyway). Is the lover/sibling bonus always working if the character does have the critical skill/a critical-enabled weapon?

If I recall.

1. Yes Meteor/Solar/Lunar can be triggered on pursuit hit and continue hit, same with critical

2. Skills that can trigger simultaneously: ambush and the sword skills, ambush and wrath, ambush and charge, ambush and continue.

3. Skills that can't trigger simultaneously: the sword skills and their priority is Astra>Luna>Sol

4. Sibling/lover critical will always work when they are next to each other on a non pursuit hit. Regardless of critical skill.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

They cant?

I was going to pair Ayra with Holyn too :(

Lakche will activate one or the other 51% of the time once she promotes. P(Meteor Sword activates)= .3. P(Meteor Sword fails)=.7. P(Moonlight activates)= (.3*.7)=.21

What are the "rules" for all the sword skills and continue and critical in FE4? I always turn off animations so I don't really know exactly what's going on :)

Like:

Can Meteor/Solar/Lunar trigger on a pursuit hit? On a continue hit? Can critical trigger on any hit?

What skills can trigger simultaneously? What skills can't? Which skill have priority when they can't both trigger?

I noticed that the lover/sibling type critical, if the character doesn't have the critical skill, only seems to go off during the non-pursuit part of a player phase attack (never during enemy phase countering or I *think* the pursuit hit - not sure on that one since the critical usually kills anyway). Is the lover/sibling bonus always working if the character does have the critical skill/a critical-enabled weapon?

Lover/sibling crits activate on the last hit before the enemy dies. I've had Sigurd hit and then critical on his second hit.

[Narga_Rocks]

Lakche will activate one or the other 51% of the time once she promotes. P(Meteor Sword activates)= .3. P(Meteor Sword fails)=.7. P(Moonlight activates)= (.3*.7)=.21

But Lunar swordkids (Holyn x Aira) are only superior to Critical swordkids (Noishe x Aira) if you have two 50+ kill swords and no other units need them. But assuming they might alternate between thunder/wind sword and silver blade and hero sword and maybe something I'm not thinking of, Critical > Lunar.

Critical = a + (a-d)

Lunar = a

As long as your mt is higher than enemy defence it is better to have critical. Both are skill% anyway. And considering how quickly their str goes to 27, are you really finding enemies with at least 12 more def than they have str aside from holy weapon using enemies?

And by "can't activate together" it means that you don't get the 9% chance to have both moonlight and shooting star activate together, whereas with crit + lunar or crit + meteor you can get the 9% chance to have both go together. With Holyn x Aira, that 9% chance just ends up being an extra 9% of getting meteor only. It would otherwise be .21 + .21 + .09 + .49 = 1.00 with chance of meteor only + lunar only + both + neither.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I never produced a statement that evaluated how they compared to others. The statement is a "positive statement", aka a statement about "what is", and it's a fact that half the time, Lakche is going to activate one or the other. I left the door open for other pairings own probabilities of hax skills activating even more frequently or skills dealing even more hax damage than Moonlight as I wasn't really concerned with other pairings at that moment of posting; I was more concerned that the pairing would be left to the dumps simply because they can't activate together even though there was the upside of a skill activating 51% of the time by late-mid second gen.

I'm rather fond of Noish|Ayra myself anyway since it's the creme de la creme of offensive Lakches and at the top of my list when going on a more relaxed playthrough. It's like Alexander Ovechkin FE4 style.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Sidney Crysby

[Narga_Rocks]

I never produced a statement that evaluated how they compared to others. The statement is a "positive statement", aka a statement about "what is", and it's a fact that half the time, Lakche is going to activate one or the other. The door was left open for other pairings own probabilities of hax skills activating.

Yeah, I realized that (eventually), but it was already all typed up. Anyway, the important point leftover from my post is that they don't truly activate together, even though having two of them gives a higher rate of something happening than just having one.

I'm rather fond of Noish|Ayra myself anyway since it's the creme de la creme of offensive Lakches and at the top of my list when going on a more relaxed playthrough. It's like Alexander Ovechkin FE4 style.

I did it the first time because I wanted power. Lex as a father wasn't as powerful and she needed the hero sword forever. But on the bright side she hit 22 def so extremely quickly that it was amusing watching things do single digit damage on a unit with 50+ hp and sub 30 hit rates against. Then towards the end silvers and powerful mages appeared and she ends up 3HKOd (silvers) or 2HKOd (mages) anyway. Oh well. I derived pleasure from the early hax (complemented by a shield ring since she did have the highest def on the team for a good amount of time).

[Roxas]

Oh, that's what I thought you were implying from your last post.

Shame they can't activate together :(.

They cant?

I was going to pair Ayra with Holyn too :(

FE4 Inflation says otherwise. c:

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

Yeah, I realized that (eventually), but it was already all typed up. Anyway, the important point leftover from my post is that they don't truly activate together, even though having two of them gives a higher rate of something happening than just having one.

I did it the first time because I wanted power. Lex as a father wasn't as powerful and she needed the hero sword forever. But on the bright side she hit 22 def so extremely quickly that it was amusing watching things do single digit damage on a unit with 50+ hp and sub 30 hit rates against. Then towards the end silvers and powerful mages appeared and she ends up 3HKOd (silvers) or 2HKOd (mages) anyway. Oh well. I derived pleasure from the early hax (complemented by a shield ring since she did have the highest def on the team for a good amount of time).

It's cool, at least it got your intellectual juices flowing. :D

And yeah, I could have been a little more deatiled and said P(Moonlight activating)*P(Meteor fails)=.3*.7=.21. Or use Paint and draw a tree diagram.

[Mousefire]

there's always the sword skills patch from febinary. It let's both activate

[Narga_Rocks]

there's always the sword skills patch from febinary. It let's both activate

Except I don't think it was a programming error that caused them to not be able to activate simultaneously. This isn't ff6 evade bug. It was undoubtedly rather intentional, so I don't see why we should do that.

(One thing I liked about moonlight, though, was Mareeta OHKOing an armor with moonlight + crit. Of course, at max skl that's a 4% chance, but it was hilarious. I don't remember the damage, but I think she would have done single digits if not for the activations and ended up OHKOing something with over 40HP. Yeah yeah, that's not fe4. But it's fun anyway.)

Edited April 10, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Icon of Sin]

FE4 Inflation says otherwise. c:

Or just FE5.

[Rei Rei]

Lunar is only nice to see when you oneshot Leptor with a Slim Sword.