Slize's Character Ranking/Balancing Topic

[Radiant Dragon]

No, you don't. Get a Chest Key in Chapter 3, and don't use it until Chapter 8. You miss out on what, a Javelin and a Hand Axe? That's it.

You can get one of an Elysian Whip, an Angelic Robe, and I believe the third item is a Silver Sword? I personally would want ALL of those items, so Colm does get credit for them.

[Thor Odinson]

The treasures in C8 are Angelic Robe, Elysian Whip, and Silver Sword.

If you want to promote your flier of choice sometimes in the next few chapters, you can either miss out on the Robe or miss out the Whip and wait until Cormag and the Master Seal.

Due to how weak FE8 enemies are, one Silver Sword is enough for a long time, and Ephraim should ferry over Orson's, so the other one doesn't really matter.

I think I only had to use it once that early on, anyway, and it was one of those themed runs that I do, where I had to ORKO the Sniper on Eir C9 since I only have Eirika and Joshua as combat units at that point, and neither had much STR or DEF. Otherwise I can't even see it being used until later.

Though if you want both the Wing and the Robe, then Colm is necessary.

[Salad Utensil]

No, you don't. Get a Chest Key in Chapter 3, and don't use it until Chapter 8. You miss out on what, a Javelin and a Hand Axe? That's it.

I don't see why you would not get the other two items when it doesn't take any effort beyond deploying Colm for that one chapter...technically you could also use the chest keys from 5X if you are willing to miss the killer lance and/or elixir, but you take up inventory space for useless items and Ephraim's units start far away from the chests without a door key anyway with weak weapons.

While none of the items are technically necessary, they are really nice and it's idiotic to just ignore them.

Also enemies in this game are not as weak as you think in HM where if the game is being 'Seth-skipped' almost no-one is able to 1rko due to being EXP deprived. A robe is always going to be nice, it allows vanessa or one of the mounts with more flexibility when facing large groups of enemies or allow your mages/Eirika to take an extra hit especially since avoid is rather unreliable in this game because weapon hit rates are rather high and you might get rng screwed.

[Thor Odinson]

I'd assume we're playing normally here, where Seth usage is high, but we sacrifice some turncounts to train a few but good units such as Franz and a few others.

Of course, I'm all for screw efficiency, let Seth solo the game, but that's just me and my fangirlism.

[dondon151]

Also enemies in this game are not as weak as you think in HM where if the game is being 'Seth-skipped' almost no-one is able to 1rko due to being EXP deprived.

While this is kind of true, you don't really need much more than Seth for your offensive needs anyway. The rest of your scrubs can gang up for KOs on player phases.

[Rewjeo]

You do realise that Chest Keys can cover every item in the game except some useless weapons in Chapter 3, right? And that Torch staves exist forever? So much of Colm's so-called utility isn't actually that useful.

(I remember someone posting a tier list on GFAQs that had Colm above Seth. :facepalm: :facepalm: )

And yet I'd much rather have Colm running around grabbing chests than one of my combat units/healers. Torches and torch staves require use every few turns, while Colm's vision doesn't. It's really not much, especially considering that he won't usually be near the front lines, but it's probably worthwhile at least in 6 and 11(?) Eirika.

Rofl@second part, though.

Edit: And I discover there's a new page...

Edited October 31, 2010 by Rewjeo

[Integrity]

And yet I'd much rather have Colm running around grabbing chests than one of my combat units/healers. Torches and torch staves require use every few turns, while Colm's vision doesn't. It's really not much, especially considering that he won't usually be near the front lines, but it's probably worthwhile at least in 6 and 11(?) Eirika.

Rofl@second part, though.

Edit: And I discover there's a new page...

@2: You do that toooooo? :o

@1: Yes, but you can put the chest keys on some scrub like L'Arachel (oh, how that wounds me to say) who's on a pony and can contribute something minor like ferrying or healing. Fair point on vision.

[Anouleth]

And yet I'd much rather have Colm running around grabbing chests than one of my combat units/healers. Torches and torch staves require use every few turns, while Colm's vision doesn't. It's really not much, especially considering that he won't usually be near the front lines, but it's probably worthwhile at least in 6 and 11(?) Eirika.

Rofl@second part, though.

Edit: And I discover there's a new page...

We have two healers in Chapter 6. And we want to be Torching as often as possible because it's easy EXP.

Plus, what difference does it make? Either we deploy Colm, and give up a slot that could go to a combat unit/healer, or we use a combat unit/healer with Chest Keys. Except that we can give the Chest Keys to a 7/8 move unit that we're not using, who will be able to do it faster.

You can get one of an Elysian Whip, an Angelic Robe, and I believe the third item is a Silver Sword? I personally would want ALL of those items, so Colm does get credit for them.

I'm not really a massive fan of the Silver Sword, especially since you already have one from Orson. The only characters who would be able to use to any effect are Eirika and Joshua. And even then, you can just forget about the Chapter 5x Elixir.

Pretend that Colm doesn't exist. We would then use our Chest Keys on the most valuable items. As a result, Colm only takes credit for the items that we don't have enough Chest/Door Keys for - the Iron Sword, Iron Axe, Hand Axe, Javelin, and Elixir (and Killer Lance on Ephraim Route, since there are three chests in Chapter 9 and only one Key). Similarly, Colm only takes credit for desert items that Rennac can't reach in a reasonable time frame.

I don't see why you would not get the other two items when it doesn't take any effort beyond deploying Colm for that one chapter...technically you could also use the chest keys from 5X if you are willing to miss the killer lance and/or elixir, but you take up inventory space for useless items and Ephraim's units start far away from the chests without a door key anyway with weak weapons.

How is Reginleif weak?

While none of the items are technically necessary, they are really nice and it's idiotic to just ignore them.

Also enemies in this game are not as weak as you think in HM where if the game is being 'Seth-skipped' almost no-one is able to 1rko due to being EXP deprived. A robe is always going to be nice, it allows vanessa or one of the mounts with more flexibility when facing large groups of enemies or allow your mages/Eirika to take an extra hit especially since avoid is rather unreliable in this game because weapon hit rates are rather high and you might get rng screwed.

Gerik, Saleh, Duessel, Seth, and Cormag can all reliably ORKO. The characters who fail to ORKO are generally scrub failures like Amelia, Ewan, Gilliam who struggle to ORKO anyway. And who cares? If we are Seth-skipping the game, we do not need mages/Eirika to be able to take a hit.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Mr. Know-it-all-Anouleth

[dondon151]

It seems that according to Aquilae, if you tried hard enough you can promote Franz and get his combat to a decent level.

[Rewjeo]

Colm's review revised. Don't care to do more with it. Gonna try to get as much done by the end of the year before life gets super busy again. I was also thinking of doing a reclass project for this. Should I?

Artur

Artur joins at the start of chapter 4, so he's around for almost all of the game.

Artur 3HKOs almost every non-boss enemy chapter 4 and doubles everything, too. Toss on his 8 CRIT, and he's definitely pulls his weight offensively. Defensively, he's not as great- 12 ATK 2HKOs him, and 9 3HKOs- but chapter 4 is riddled with forests, and while on a forest he has 38 AVO. The most accurate enemies in chapter four- sword bonewalkers- have ~60 HIT on him and 3HKO. Lance ones 2HKO at ~50 HIT. Revenants 3HKO him at ~44 HIT. So, although not very durable, he's safe to put in range of almost any two enemies. And then, he's also probably your best bet, other than Seth, against Mogalls. 10 ATK on RES is not good for a lot of your units, but Artur is 7HKOd. Off a forest, he faces 56 HIT. On, 36.

Chapter 5, he's still pretty good. Two levels in chapter 4 (steep, but doable) gives him 9 AS and 11 ATK on RES- still doubles a lot and 2RKOs pretty much everything he doubles. However, he's much worse defensively. Much less terrain means his avoid is not at all reliable, and he's 2HKOd by... everything. Choke points help, but odds are he'll be behind chipping. He can probably grab some kills here, but he can't do nearly what he can in chapter 4. However, he does have the best chip here- Neimi needs to be ~level 6 to pull off similar combat, and Lute needs several levels for the AS.

Chapter 6, there's terrain to boost his AVO, but his concrete durability is still poor. His chip's the best, but this chapter is still really just self improvement.

And all he does for a while is solid chip and self-improvement. He's decent, but not great.

And then promotion! If you promote him early (which he wants) then Sage is the way to go short term. He becomes your most mobile healer and gets a huge durability boost. 4 HP, 3 DEF/RES. He also gets Anima magic, which is lighter and stronger than Light magic. It certainly gives him a boost for a while, but his durability still isn't exactly great, and once physic shows up, mobility doesn't mean much for healers, and he doesn't have enough to keep up with your pallies later. Not only that, but on Eirika route, Saleh shows up after, say, 11/1 Artur's only had a few chapters. Compare 11/5 Artur (which is far more EXP than he should be getting) to base Saleh, and Saleh wins weapon levels, CON, MAG, SKL, maybe SPD, LUK, and DEF, so he's obsoleted quickly.

Long term, Bishop's best. His combat doesn't improve as much (no Anima, less defensive boosts) initially, but he gets Slayer, so maybe he can provide some sort of solid damage later. 11/5 Artur with Purge on a monster pulls 34.5 MT, for example. More importantly, it gives him C staves, so getting him to be able to use physic is much more likely, and he might be able to get some use of Warp. Problem is, Moulder had C staves 8-9 chapters earlier, so he's not doing much more than Moulder. More MAG means better range, and he can defend himself, so he's a better choice, but he's not doing a whole lot more for you.

Summary: Artur starts out decently, but fades as your other units get better and his chip is no longer very important, and a lot of what he does is just self improvement. An early promotion is necessary to keep him from doing anything other than self improvement. Sage makes him a good short term unit, and Bishop makes him less of a powerhouse short-term, but gives him some combat abilities later and he makes for a good, but not particularly unique, lategame staff user.

6.5/10

Balancing: Artur's tough to balance. A lot of his use later is due to the classes, and changing his performance early to be any worse would really ruin him... I'm thinking a MAG base drop of two, maybe?

Edited December 13, 2010 by Rewjeo

[Anouleth]

Artur 3HKOs almost every non-boss enemy chapter 4 and doubles everything, too. Toss on his 8 CRIT, and he's definitely pulls his weight offensively. Defensively, he's not as great- 12 ATK 2HKOs him, and 9 3HKOs- but chapter 4 is riddled with forests, and while on a forest he has 38 AVO. The most accurate enemies in chapter four- sword bonewalkers- have ~60 HIT on him and 3HKO. Lance ones 2HKO at ~50 HIT. Revenants 3HKO him at ~44 HIT. So, although not very durable, he's safe to put in range of almost any two enemies. And then, he's also probably your best bet, other than Seth, against Mogalls. 10 ATK on RES is not good for a lot of your units, but Artur is 7HKOd. Toss him on a forest, and he's 10HKOd. Off a forest, he faces 56 HIT. On, 36.

How is 2-rounding enemies an achievement in this map? Anyone except like, a base level Ross can 2HKO a Revenant. Garcia, and Seth actually 1-round, perhaps even Franz and Eirika depending on their strength.

Plus, Mogalls are easy. Just let them suicide into Javelin!Vanessa on turn one and they're gone. She actually 2HKOes them, for a start.

And Forest doesn't give a resistance bonus, just defense.

Chapter 5, he's still pretty good. Two levels in chapter 4 gives him 9 AS and 11 ATK on RES- still doubles a lot and 2RKOs pretty much everything he doubles. However, he's much worse defensively. Much less terrain means his avoid is not at all reliable, and he's 2HKOd by... everything. Choke points help, but odds are he'll be behind chipping. He can probably grab some kills here, but he can't do nearly what he can in chapter 4. However, he does have the best chip here- Neimi needs to be ~level 6 to pull off similar combat, and Lute needs several levels for the AS.

2 levels in one chapter is pretty steep when you have virtually no enemy phase and don't 1-round.

[Rewjeo]

They have 28-30 HP, in my experience most people do not ORKO. I never said it was anything great, I said he pulled his weight. He 2RKOs, like most people, and will pull of a few crits throughout the chapter.

I'd rather have Vanessa head south. Besides, she's 4HKOd by them, pulls pretty poor hit (70-75, so she fails to kill 3/4 times) and isn't the best for dealing with the other guys around there.

I'll fix that.

10 EXP/HIT, 30 EXP/KILL. Four kills, eight damaging rounds. I'm not assuming super-duper efficiency, so all it takes is giving him higher priority. I'll mention that it does require favoritism, though.

[RNG Princess]

^^'

poor Neimi she gets a 3 :(

Edited December 17, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Rewjeo]

Reclass for Seth:

HP	ATK	SKL	SPD	LUK	DEF	RES	CON
Seth:	7/20	7/25	9/15	5/27	13/0	3/28	5/10	0
Pal	30/90	14/50	13/45	12/45	13/25	11/40	8/30	11
M G Lord25/110	10/70	12/55	9/72	13/40	8/43	5/25	10
GK	28/90	15/55	13/35	11/42	14/20	14/49	8/30	13
Gen	28/95	15/55	14/35	8/37	13/20	16/51	8/35	15
Hero	29/95	13/55	18/56	15/47	14/25	11/48	7/30	11
SM	28/85	13/50	20/45	15/57	13/25	8/43	7/32	9
Assass	23/70	10/30	10/60	14/67	13/40	5/33	5/30	8
Rogue	23/70	10/35	10/60	14/67	13/40	5/33	5/30	7
Sniper	28/85	14/55	15/45	10/47	13/30	8/43	7/30	8
Ranger	28/80	14/50	15/45	12/62	13/25	9/43	8/25	9
WL	32/95	16/65	14/45	12/47	13/20	13/48	6/27	11
WK	27/85	14/60	16/45	13/57	13/25	10/43	6/27	10
Sage	27/65	12/70	13/45	9/52	13/15	8/38	10/50	7
MK	27/65	11/65	12/45	10/67	13/30	8/38	11/50	6
Bishop	28/65	11/60	13/40	9/49	13/40	6/36	13/50	7
Druid	26/65	13/80	12/45	9/52	13/20	7/38	11/45	8
Summon	25/65	12/75	12/45	9/52	13/20	6/36	10/45	8
Warr	35/100	15/70	13/40	11/47	13/15	8/44	5/27	13
Zerk	31/95	14/75	15/50	12/52	13/15	9/38	5/23	13

I'm thinking

1. Wyvern Lord

2. Wyvern Knight

3. Paladin

4. Mage Knight

5. Warrior

roughly.

Also, I'd like to point out Great Lord's growth spread. Bases sorta suck for Seth, and 7 MOV and Lance-lock is unappreciated, but those growths are awesome.

And the massive fail that is assassin/rogue.

And WTF9SPDMAGusers. Seriously, Seth shouldn't run into doubling issues as early as chapter 2. Screw that.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Rewjeo

[dondon151]

Though flying is awesome, I don't agree that it's a good trait for earlygame powerhouse units like Seth, because he does have to face a lot of archers.

[Rewjeo]

It takes 24 ATK to 3HKO base WL Seth and 29 to 2HKO. Although WK Seth only requires 19 MT to 3HKO, AKA any STR and an Iron Bow...

wyvern Lord doesn't seem like it would have durability problems to me. He'd be tinked by anything but magic and bows for a long time. He's borderline 3HKOd by chapter 15 steel lanceWyvern Riders at BASE. --/10 Seth is 7HKOd and has Not to mention the fact that he's facing mid 40s hit. I'd imagine that the flight would more than make up for bow vulnerability. Although WK certainly has troubles.

Looking back at it, I'm not so sure about Warrior, either. He'd nuke stuff with a handaxe at first, but his SPD might be problematic later with some bad luck. 8 base DEF would be problematic, too. High HP is a cushion, but without that DEF...

Although, quite frankly, the choice seems, to me, to be mostly between Wyvern Lord and Paladin, and figuring out the other good choices seems pointless.