Slize's Character Ranking/Balancing Topic

[dondon151]

Heh, you're right; even 0% growths for Vanessa would not make her any less imbalanced than she is already. You could give her absolutely terrible bases and she'd still be about the same as before.

[Anouleth]

Maybe one day, IS will figure out how to make flying characters less than overpowered.

[Integrity]

give them a penalty on mov when carrying someone

...

Actually, this isn't a terrible idea.

[Rewjeo]

I doubt that's very easy to implement, though. The idea was that it would be possible to actually edit the game and make the changes. Something like that might be possible, but very, very difficult. Great idea, though.

[Rewjeo]

It's back again! Now that it's the only actively running ranking topic for FE8, I think I'll be more motivated to finish. Kicking out the whole Sethskip thing, too. The idea's dead.

Ross

Ross joins in chapter 2 at effectively level -10, although his high level gain is actually caused by his class power. Now, this certainly has its advantages. A third of a level for just hitting something means that leveling him up, no matter how awful his performance, is not completely unmanageable. Which is nice, because he starts absolutely awful. 4-6HKOing with his hatchet. Now, if he takes a hand axe from his dad, he 3-4HKOs, but loses 25 HIT. Handaxe Ross is only pulling 50-60 HIT on enemies when they AREN'T on terrain, which chapter 2 is littered with. He can hit fairly reliably with his hatchet, though.

His durability doesn't really start any better. 15 HP and 3 DEF? Awesome, that's 2HKOd by, well, everything.

However, if he chips every turn, he averages about .9x33 EXP thanks to true hit, or about 30 EXP. That's about 30 turns if he only attacks once a turn until promotion to pirate. However, there are certain situations, especially as he levels up, where he can do some fighting on enemy phase and he will, on occasion, get kills, which is a lot more experience. He can probably promote by chapter 7. That would put him at 2HKOing, while rarely doubling, and being reasonably durable. Still not great there, but not bad.

And throughout the game, his speed remains a problem. Still, his huge STR means that he isn't facing #HKO problems, and as a berserker has a good chance at OHKOing with a killer axe. Garm also gives a nice +5 SPD. Of course, 40 MT before even factoring in his huge STR means that he's OHKOing just about everything. He has mediocre SKL, however, so he will have some HIT problems. And his durability ends up solid. Not great, but he's got a good HP cushion on decent DEF, so solid.

4.5/10

Balancing

Bump him up to level -6 (4) so that he's closer to promotion and is a little better at first. He's pretty close to the target range, so he doesn't need much of a change.

[dondon151]

I don't see how Sethskip is worth passing over when it generally contains a 1 sentence summary over what's different from normal play.

[Rewjeo]

You seemed to be the only other person who was really interested in it. If other people want me to keep doing those, though, I will.

And I take it no comments on the actual review means you have no problems with it?

[Integrity]

Meh, Ross.

The problem is, raising Ross at all is an act that can be condemned as blatant favoritism. Consequently, if you don't blatantly favorite Ross he'll never amount.

I'd say 4.5 is a little low because I raise him, but somebody else (dondon :P) is going to say 4.5 is too high because he's worthless unless you favorite him.

[Anouleth]

If it weren't for Duessel, he'd be worth raising as a Garm user. As it is, he seems pretty completely redundant, since he needs to be a pretty high level to challenge Duessel.

[Rewjeo]

Garcia

Garcia here is pretty much the polar opposite of his son. He joins and is great. He doubles a fair amount and hits plenty hard. In the not-too-unlikely situation you aren't using Ross, he can even grab Ross's hatchet when it doesn't impair his #HKO while improving his accuracy. His DEF isn't too impressive, but that much HP means he's durable enough to get some good enemy phases and is helpful early.

But his growths don't really carry him through the game. He's got some hilariously good stats (28 base HP 80 growth? 8 base STR 65 growth? With AXES?) but some serious flaws. His DEF base is, again, poor. And his growth? Average. Even when you take into account our units that aren't facing counters much. SPD? Awful. As a Hero in chapter 19, he still may need a speedwing to avoid being doubled. Warrior, two. And Hero puts a lower cap on STR, one of his two good stats. So, you get someone who hits hard with huge HP, but is horribly slow and has bad enough DEF that his HP goes away quickly. Opposite of Ross. Ends weak instead of starting weak. His strong earlygame, however, means I'm gonna give him a

7/10.

Balancing

10% SPD growth. Now his lategame is even worse, his latelategame awful, but his earlygame remains strong.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Slize

[Anouleth]

I think that Garcia is bad enough in mid-lategame without having to deal with single-digit speed as well.

[Integrity]

Starts doubling? Garcia doesn't ever double anything except loldiers and knights. He also doubles zombies but everybody destroys zombies regardless of SPD or STR.

A 7's still fine for him but it's for the wrong reasons.

[Rewjeo]

Where did I say that? I said that he might need a speedwing to "avoid being doubled." Which means he certainly isn't doubling much.

[Anouleth]

Starts doubling? Garcia doesn't ever double anything except loldiers and knights. He also doubles zombies but everybody destroys zombies regardless of SPD or STR.

A 7's still fine for him but it's for the wrong reasons.

I think he doubles Great Knights w/Garm.

[Parrhesia]

Regardless, halving his already deplorable Speed growth is not the way to go to balance him. I'd say he's fine as is, but if you insisted perhaps I'd lower his base Str/Skl/Spd by one apiece, to correspond with Dorcas. Or his HP, to make him somewhat fragile.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Agent Dale Cooper

[Anouleth]

What's confusing is that you seem to think he's overpowered in the first place, when he's literally the slowest character in a game where Speed is one of the most important stats. ffs, he doesn't even double Wights or Gorgons. This is a guy who needs Garm just to not get doubled by the Demon King.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Anouleth

[Integrity]

Garcia

Garcia here is pretty much the polar opposite of his son. He joins and is great. He doubles quite a bit and hits plenty hard. In the not-too-unlikely situation, he can even grab Ross's hatchet when it doesn't impair his #HKO while improving his accuracy. His DEF isn't too impressive, but that much HP means he's durable enough to get some good enemy phases and is helpful early.

Emphasis mine.

That's what you said.

[Rewjeo]

Early. He doubles quite a bit early on. Not doubles everything, or doubles later on, bt he doubles a fair amount early on. Actually, I'll edit it to say a fair amount, I wouldn't really call what he doubles "quite a bit." Meh, not a Garcia fan, so that one was sorta lazy.

[Integrity]

Even early on, all he doubles are loldiers and knights - and the latter don't even show in any numbers until C8. Early Myrmen and Mercs will double him in return, I think he's one-for on Archers and Fighters/Brigands and maaaaybe the Cavs in C6. For monsters, Zombies present nobody trouble and Beholders will fuck him up righteously if he's not close to high health.

Remember, an enemy has to have *three* AS to be doubled by base!Garcy, and he's not likely to gain any SPD soon. He's also weighed by anything heavier than Hand/Iron, but that's unlikely to come into play beyond the -1 from Steel.

I'm actually going to go check enemy stats in the early chapters out of boredom. :P

-

Garcia's base SPD is 7. 11 effective doubles him; he doubles 3 effective.

C2: Bandits are globally 5AS, there's one Archer who's a pathetic 3.

C3: 5s and 6s all around, plus a Merc and a Thief who are 10 and 11. Seth got a perfect level while killing the boss.

C4: Everything is <3AS. Skeletons range from 3 to 4. If Garcia gains one point of SPD he can double everything here, but he does get 3RKOd by the Beholders.

C5: Loldiers range from lol to dier. Archers are out of base!Garcia's range now, but one point of SPD lets him get the lower ones. Bandits and Fighters sit at 7 +/- 1. There's a Merc with 10.

Don't feel like anything further, but the point's made. Actually, it's not as bad as I thought: he does double all monsters in C4, and he doesn't *actually* get doubled by anything short of the C3 Thief and Joshua for the first short portion of the game.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Integrity

[Rewjeo]

I'd call that a fair amount.

[dondon151]

Those are enemies that everyone else doubles.

[Junkhead]

But not everyone gets to 1RKO them. =0

But the point stands, he has a solid earlygame.

[Integrity]

Solid earlygame and pathetic lategame shouldn't be a 7.

GODLIKE EARLYGAME and pathetic lategame, *maybe*, but being just *solid* for about a third of the game is a 7?

[Rewjeo]

He isn't pathetic until the very lategame. He's at least viable through 13 or 14.

[Integrity]

Yes. He's good for the early, meh for the middle, and bad for the late. That speaks of an average character, not a 7.0.