Soren...

[Shimmachi]

Hate to see that Astrid gets owned by her fail growths, for having awesome caps.

IS has got balancing issues, with characters like Haar, Ike and Shinon being outright broken.

All the Sages in this game suck horribly, as well as the Paladins. Soren has earlygame issues, Ilyana has crappy caps, Tormod is outright garbage, Calill has fail availability, and LOL, Bastian? Basically, 2 of the most basic classes in the FE series are horribly nerfed.

And Gatrie has 60 Spd growth. Sad. Isn't the Soren one a complete spoiler, anyway? The one abt him being the child of a dragon.

[Junkhead]

but she's always hungry and eats alot, maybe that explains why she is so slow :o

This actually explains why she increased her Str growth by 20 and doubled her Def growth.

@Fin: I don't really think Haar is broken, he's only a very strong and durable character, Shinon isn't broken until he gets 1-range with the Double Bow, but Ike just IS broken, look at those mighty he caps.

As for Paladins, not all of them suck, Titania is actually pretty solid, and has good chance of capping her important stats, Makalov could be decent too with stat transfers.

Female Sages have pretty nice caps, but just for a while they are able to double some things.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Soul

[Maou]

Hate to see that Astrid gets owned by her fail growths, for having awesome caps.

IS has got balancing issues, with characters like Haar, Ike and Shinon being outright broken.

All the Sages in this game suck horribly, as well as the Paladins. Soren has earlygame issues, Ilyana has crappy caps, Tormod is outright garbage, Calill has fail availability, and LOL, Bastian? Basically, 2 of the most basic classes in the FE series are horribly nerfed.

And Gatrie has 60 Spd growth. Sad. Isn't the Soren one a complete spoiler, anyway? The one abt him being the child of a dragon.

Titania doesn't suck.

[Fenrir]

This actually explains why she increased her Str growth by 20 and doubled her Def growth.

@Fin: I don't really think Haar is broken, he's only a very strong and durable character, Shinon isn't broken until he gets 1-range with the Double Bow, but Ike just IS broken, look at those mighty he caps.

As for Paladins, not all of them suck, Titania is actually pretty solid, and has good chance of capping her important stats, Makalov could be decent too with stat transfers.

Female Sages have pretty nice caps, but just for a while they are able to double some things.

i think shinnon is majorly broken, especially with a double bow attack range of 1-3...and haar is pretty broken unless hes speed screwed like the one on my current pt >.< but i would say ike isn't because he's the main character so they can do what they want. Titan is decent yes but makalov, i took him to endgame, he's terrible there and in PT 4.

[Junkhead]

I did mention Shinon needs the Double Bow to be broken. Even if Haar doesn't get Spd screwed, he doesn't double enough with that Spd cap. Then again, I didn't bother using Haar yet, I use Boyd instead, the only thing he doesn't have is a massive, unnecesarily high Def, but his Def is passable, and he can just support Mist for an Str/Def bonus, and not to mention how much more broken Colusus is.

[Fenrir]

I did mention Shinon needs the Double Bow to be broken. Even if Haar doesn't get Spd screwed, he doesn't double enough with that Spd cap. Then again, I didn't bother using Haar yet, I use Boyd instead, the only thing he doesn't have is a massive, unnecesarily high Def, but his Def is passable, and he can just support Mist for an Str/Def bonus, and not to mention how much more broken Colusus is.

yeah i always use boyd, unless like 5 people attack him when he falls in a hole on 3-11 he does fine, and boyd + urvan = rape, i like supporting him with oscar for avoid or mia for hit.

i think shinnon is crazy, if he has a thunder, dark or wind support its 15 more to his already massive avoid, and the provoke is just hilarious because every enemy will attack him because he cannot counter, this draws in all the enemies to you and lets other units take them down for xp personally i love using shinnon and i guess he isnt to nerfed with double bow, but if you make him a forged silver bow and get a might bonus it makes him pretty unstoppable

[Shadow Mir]

yeah i always use boyd, unless like 5 people attack him when he falls in a hole on 3-11 he does fine, and boyd + urvan = rape, i like supporting him with oscar for avoid or mia for hit.

Personally, I shy away from Boyd, because I consider him nothing special in RD. And I just don't care about having someone to bless Urvan (or the Vague Katti, for that matter).

[Fenrir]

Personally, I shy away from Boyd, because I consider him nothing special in RD. And I just don't care about having someone to bless Urvan (or the Vague Katti, for that matter).

if boyd isnt special, who do you consider "special", having the highest strength cap(beorc) and having the ability to use the mightiest weapon with that is "special" to me

[Interceptor]

Boyd's SPD is terrible and requires a lot of attention to fix. Compared to PoR, where he really has no issues doubling for the most part, it's kind of a big deal in this game.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Interceptor

[RNG Princess]

Ike is the most broken and cheapest character in the game, he gets exclusivity to kill Ashera and have many personal weapons. They should have treated Ashera like Ashnard and give more than one character the exclusivity to kill them, my first choice is Elincia <3.

Titania was also favored too much if you ask me, she sure is in a gimped class but somehow everything is in her favor. Compared to the other paladdins she has the best overall growths, best availability, best bases; way too spoiled and all the other paladdins get the short end of the stick.

I also think Gatrie and Shinnon were favored too much because of all the favoritism their classes get and lol competition.

Haar is a different story to me, he has decent competion and his class is not favored to that extent.

Astrid and Ilyana seem to be the most screwed of the returning characters, and they were not the best in PoR which is unfair to them :P If anyone should have been screwed that bad I would have picked Titania and Shinnon and Gatrie.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Shadow Mir]

Ike is the most broken and cheapest character in the game, he gets exclusivity to kill Ashera and have many personal weapons. They should have treated Ashera like Ashnard and give more than one character the exclusivity to kill them, my first choice is Elincia <3.

Titania was also favored too much if you ask me, she sure is in a gimped class but somehow everything is in her favor. Compared to the other paladdins she has the best overall growths, best availability, best bases; way too spoiled and all the other paladdins get the short end of the stick.

I also think Gatrie and Shinnon were favored too much because of all the favoritism their classes get and lol competition.

Haar is a different story to me, he has decent competion and his class is not favored to that extent.

Astrid and Ilyana seem to be the most screwed of the returning characters, and they were not the best in PoR which is unfair to them :P If anyone should have been screwed that bad I would have picked Titania.

Bold: I agree on Astrid, but not so much on Ilyana. *glares at Tormod* Also, Lethe really took a beating in the transition from PoR to RD.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[RNG Princess]

I forgot about Lethe, she was also very screwed :o

[Junkhead]

yeah i always use boyd, unless like 5 people attack him when he falls in a hole on 3-11 he does fine, and boyd + urvan = rape, i like supporting him with oscar for avoid or mia for hit.

i think shinnon is crazy, if he has a thunder, dark or wind support its 15 more to his already massive avoid, and the provoke is just hilarious because every enemy will attack him because he cannot counter, this draws in all the enemies to you and lets other units take them down for xp personally i love using shinnon and i guess he isnt to nerfed with double bow, but if you make him a forged silver bow and get a might bonus it makes him pretty unstoppable

Well, remember that Boyd's Def growth is pretty strange, and will go up pretty nicely, he doesn't even need Urvan as a Reaver, Colusus' activation rate is pretty monsterous and garantees a 1RKO. And Boyd isn't suffering Hit issues in NM, I doubt it in HM.

Shinon doesn't pretty much need Avo either...his concrete durability is ridiculous, I think hye's best supported with Rhys, that is, if you are using him.

Boyd's SPD is terrible and requires a lot of attention to fix. Compared to PoR, where he really has no issues doubling for the most part, it's kind of a big deal in this game.

What about transfers? They actually solve his Spd problems a bit.

[Interceptor]

What about transfers? They actually solve his Spd problems a bit.

Even with a transfer, he's rocking 20 SPD. Boyd w/transfer will still needs a Speedwing just for the honor of losing SPD to Ike by one point. At least he'll be good to go after a few levels, anyway.

[Junkhead]

But the only enemies doubling him are Swordmasters, right? He's not doubling, but beither is he constantly getting doubled, isn't that pretty average for most characters in HM?

Edited May 28, 2010 by Soul

[Interceptor]

But the only enemies doubling him are Swordmasters, right? He's not doubling, but beither is he constantly getting doubled, isn't that pretty average for most characters in HM?

... and that's what makes him "not special". It's nice when these things resolve themselves.

[Fenrir]

Ike is the most broken and cheapest character in the game, he gets exclusivity to kill Ashera and have many personal weapons. They should have treated Ashera like Ashnard and give more than one character the exclusivity to kill them, my first choice is Elincia <3.

Titania was also favored too much if you ask me, she sure is in a gimped class but somehow everything is in her favor. Compared to the other paladdins she has the best overall growths, best availability, best bases; way too spoiled and all the other paladdins get the short end of the stick.

I also think Gatrie and Shinnon were favored too much because of all the favoritism their classes get and lol competition.

Haar is a different story to me, he has decent competion and his class is not favored to that extent.

Astrid and Ilyana seem to be the most screwed of the returning characters, and they were not the best in PoR which is unfair to them :P If anyone should have been screwed that bad I would have picked Titania and Shinnon and Gatrie.

I would honestly love to see elincia kill ahsera, but i think its just fine ike is the only one able too, but it would be cool if like 5 people could kill asheraand there was a diff cutscene for each.

as to Titan, you say shes broken but think about it, she is rendered(somewhat) useless on 3-4 and 3-7 because of horses' inability to go up gaps or, for some odd reason inability cross water. and she has to pay for horseslayers and her stats, their nothing compared to say, haar's, another thing too is horse's only move 7 indoors which takes away from her class, for instance nephenee has better stats but cant canto or move 9 but when titan only moves 7 neph IMO becomes better and there are many gaps on indoor stage also.

... and that's what makes him "not special". It's nice when these things resolve themselves.

maybye its my ignorrance but i fail to see your arguement,ive got a PT going right now, im using boyd, gatrie, neph, soren and mia.(aton of others but they're fresh on my mind)most of the time they cannot one round someone until third tier, unless they critical or mia gets her adept, but for 3rd tier, could boyd be the best? if you gave him a speedwing i think offensivly he is, doubling + 154645545 per hit = dead enemy. yes he needs a speedwing, but aside from miciah not many other characters need it, so to me it makes him a dominant characterand you get most speedwings absolutely free.(killing enemies looting chests etc)

Well, remember that Boyd's Def growth is pretty strange, and will go up pretty nicely, he doesn't even need Urvan as a Reaver, Colusus' activation rate is pretty monsterous and garantees a 1RKO. And Boyd isn't suffering Hit issues in NM, I doubt it in HM.

Shinon doesn't pretty much need Avo either...his concrete durability is ridiculous, I think hye's best supported with Rhys, that is, if you are using him.

What about transfers? They actually solve his Spd problems a bit.

while i agree boyd gets colusus a ton Urvan is avalible only for endgame where many opponents have nihil. and to anyone hating on boyds speed, give him adept and with that and colusus he gets one of them like half the time which means half the time he 1RKO's and if you put some bexp into him he can double mages armour and some horses.

Shinnon doesnt need Avo but it makes him invinceable, I've never tried him with rhys since i've never really tried rhys =p i might try that sometime though.

[Interceptor]

maybye its my ignorrance but i fail to see your arguement,ive got a PT going right now, im using boyd, gatrie, neph, soren and mia.(aton of others but they're fresh on my mind)most of the time they cannot one round someone until third tier, unless they critical or mia gets her adept, but for 3rd tier, could boyd be the best? if you gave him a speedwing i think offensivly he is, doubling + 154645545 per hit = dead enemy. yes he needs a speedwing, but aside from miciah not many other characters need it, so to me it makes him a dominant characterand you get most speedwings absolutely free.(killing enemies looting chests etc)

Gatrie has an argument to hit third tier early with a master crown because of his stat growths/caps, and Titania will naturally get there before other people due to her high base level. Plus, as you said, Mia with Adept or a critical is killing things easily (the same goes for Nephenee). Soren is kind of bad unless it's Normal mode.

Against those people, it's hard for Boyd to compete. Haar and Titania and better candidates for the Speedwings, since they have better mobility than he does, and are closer to the threshold of doubling.

Third tier is a long way away for Boyd. He's good when he gets there though, as long as he has the SPD to double (which is far from a sure thing, he needs help getting there).

[Loki Laufeyson]

Boyd is pretty great though. Yeah, the speed needs work. If i use him, i dump a speedwing in him so hes doubling more. I usually dont worry about Haar's doubling because hes tanking if theres no mages around. It does take a while for Boyd to get to third tier. If youre using warriors, its either him or Nolan so of course Boyd is the logical choice.

As for an Urvan user, its either Boyd, Nolan, Haar, Titania or Jill in my case. I usually go with Boyd, Titania or Jill. Haar rarely makes it to endgame usually because i dont want him in the top 5. lol. Thats just me though.

I used Calill once. Her speed IS better than Soren's but her magic cap isnt. Soren usually gets transfer bonuses so his speed isnt THAT bad once he reaches around level 12 or so as a wind sage. Speed is also the one thing he rarely if ever, caps. Everything else gets capped. Never bothered with Tormod. Ilyana, well. lol. That is all. Pelleas isnt too bad but again, hes not that speedy.

[Shadow Mir]

maybye its my ignorrance but i fail to see your arguement,ive got a PT going right now, im using boyd, gatrie, neph, soren and mia.(aton of others but they're fresh on my mind)most of the time they cannot one round someone until third tier, unless they critical or mia gets her adept, but for 3rd tier, could boyd be the best? if you gave him a speedwing i think offensivly he is, doubling + 154645545 per hit = dead enemy. yes he needs a speedwing, but aside from miciah not many other characters need it, so to me it makes him a dominant characterand you get most speedwings absolutely free.(killing enemies looting chests etc)

while i agree boyd gets colusus a ton Urvan is avalible only for endgame where many opponents have nihil. and to anyone hating on boyds speed, give him adept and with that and colusus he gets one of them like half the time which means half the time he 1RKO's and if you put some bexp into him he can double mages armour and some horses.

As for the argument of Boyd getting a speedwing, I have two words for you: Opportunity cost. Boyd has a big opportunity cost to pay when it comes to speedwings. And again, he needs more than just a speedwing before he can double.

As for the bold: He doesn't even make good use of Adept. And doubling mages and armors isn't exactly what I'd call impressive when you consider that they're among the slower enemies.

[Anouleth]

Soren's speed issues are why he's low. In NM, he needs some effort to get doubling, but in NM, every character can double with the amount of effort that Soren needs. Boyd has 18/45% speed to Soren's 18/35%, Rolf has 19/45% and a lower level, Oscar has 21/60%... even the slowest combat units on the team, Ilyana and Brom are going to have 17/30% and 18/30% respectively, so they're not a whole lot worse off than him. Not that Ilyana's really a good example, since she's probably your single worst character when she arrives in 3-2.

Hard Mode is more of the same. He's still slow and now we don't have the option of BEXPing his speed.

[Fenrir]

Gatrie has an argument to hit third tier early with a master crown because of his stat growths/caps, and Titania will naturally get there before other people due to her high base level. Plus, as you said, Mia with Adept or a critical is killing things easily (the same goes for Nephenee). Soren is kind of bad unless it's Normal mode.

Against those people, it's hard for Boyd to compete. Haar and Titania and better candidates for the Speedwings, since they have better mobility than he does, and are closer to the threshold of doubling.

Third tier is a long way away for Boyd. He's good when he gets there though, as long as he has the SPD to double (which is far from a sure thing, he needs help getting there).

quick crowning gatrie, why do i never do this? one thing about your first paragraph, nephenee doesnt have the high critical so she would rely souly on adept,which boyd could also do.

Haar and titan are closer to doubling yes and have more mobility, but i dont think its necessary to give them speedwings, titan starts so close to class change its almost worthless IMO, and haar can often pull it off without speedwing. but if one(or both) gets speed screwed they are better all around characters so if you perfer a well-rounded character, well dont even use boyd in the first place.

As for the argument of Boyd getting a speedwing, I have two words for you: Opportunity cost. Boyd has a big opportunity cost to pay when it comes to speedwings. And again, he needs more than just a speedwing before he can double.

As for the bold: He doesn't even make good use of Adept. And doubling mages and armors isn't exactly what I'd call impressive when you consider that they're among the slower enemies.

Boyd needs one speedwing and he'll magically double!!! you're telling me no? i wouldve never guessed all boyd needed was one speedwing.(that was sarcasm, cant expect you to know after saying something like that) he wont double the whole 2nd tier(excluding armours mages and slow horsies) but what a speedwing does is, puts him at a speed level to double in the 3rd tier.

he does make good use of adept im gonna expect you to somehow know this and provide nothing to support this statment, alright?[again i love your points]

doubling armours is nice when many units cannot hit more than 20 on an armour combined on their double, mia or neph? i think mia only hit double 8s on an armour when i was playing 3-11 she was level 18 tier 2

[Shadow Mir]

quick crowning gatrie, why do i never do this? one thing about your first paragraph, nephenee doesnt have the high critical so she would rely souly on adept,which boyd could also do.

Haar and titan are closer to doubling yes and have more mobility, but i dont think its necessary to give them speedwings, titan starts so close to class change its almost worthless IMO, and haar can often pull it off without speedwing. but if one(or both) gets speed screwed they are better all around characters so if you perfer a well-rounded character, well dont even use boyd in the first place.

Boyd needs one speedwing and he'll magically double!!! you're telling me no? i wouldve never guessed all boyd needed was one speedwing.(that was sarcasm, cant expect you to know after saying something like that) he wont double the whole 2nd tier(excluding armours mages and slow horsies) but what a speedwing does is, puts him at a speed level to double in the 3rd tier.

he does make good use of adept im gonna expect you to somehow know this and provide nothing to support this statment, alright?[again i love your points]

doubling armours is nice when many units cannot hit more than 20 on an armour combined on their double, mia or neph? i think mia only hit double 8s on an armour when i was playing 3-11 she was level 18 tier 2

Except Neph's better speed means she uses it better.

Good luck trying to justify a speedwing on Boyd when I can get better results out of giving it to Haar or Titania.

Bold: What what what? Do I detect hypocrisy? Because you're doing the same thing. You're claiming that Boyd makes good use of Adept, but where's your proof?

[Narga_Rocks]

I want to add a rule to the forums that says "If you are going to debate characters, state your difficulty mode and playstyle first". Can't, though.

Anyway, many of us here mainly debate HM because NM is stupidly easy in most games. It's even worse in RD because of the amount of bexp available. In HM, Titania starts at 21 spd and needs 24 to double in just the first chapters. She needs 5 levels without a crown to promote. That's not happening very quickly when you play efficiently. If you want her doubling anything important any time soon on HM (and you do if you want to beat chapters quickly), she needs a speedwing. Even the wing alone doesn't get her to double the halbs and warriors. She needs a level or two on top of the wing. Haar is in an even worse situation since he starts 9 levels away from level 20, 10 away from promotion, and has 20 spd with a 30% growth. Wing gets him to 22 and then you can crown him when he hits 24. Extra unit doubling in part 3 is worth much more than an extra unit doubling in part 4, but Titania with that wing may also be doubling in part 4.

Oh, and Mia should be 4HKOing Generals starting around 3-4 with a crit forge. That gives her over 40% kill rates on them. Also, you have Titania/Gatrie/Haar able to double and hammers are available. And it'll be a while before Boyd is 2HKOing them without hammers anyway so you may as well just use the other options.

Also, to make good use of adept you need to double and 3HKO rather than not double but 2HKO.

30 spd = 51% chance to adept at least once in two swings. Hence, 51% chance to KO enemy.

23 spd = 23% chance to adept at least once in one swing. Hence, 23% chance to KO enemy.

Units that double are significantly better with Adept than those that don't. Even if we go at the doubling threshold. So, against 21 AS enemies use 24 and 25.

1 - (.75 * .75) = 43.75%

so 25 speed results in a 43.75% kill rate while 24 speed results in a 24% kill rate. That's not quite double, but it is significantly better. Hence, Boyd doesn't use adept particularly well when you consider to kill things like halbs and warriors and nearly anything else she doubles and he doesn't Mia can get more than double his kill rates.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Interceptor]

nephenee doesnt have the high critical

In addition to what the others have said about other things: Nephenee's critical is decent. She has a +5% bonus from her class, and high SKL; Boyd has neither of these things. so, it's just a matter of forging some +crit on her weapon for her, and she's criting a bit less than Mia.