So, what's all this bullshit about Hikarusa not being able to post?

[Mikethfc]

I'm not sure of what your point is. Are you suggesting that this should be overlooked simply because there's less people that voiced the fact that they took offense to it than those that found it funny?

No I don't mean that it should be overlooked but the retribution oughta be more proportional. Sorry it was badly worded.

[Malexis]

Hahaha, it's like every banned member needs a say.

Golden.

Maybe so but even if they totally overlook his say (which I wouldn't blame them at all if they did) this post is even more useless than that one...

EDIT: I'm trying to maintain neutrality here but I have a simple point to make:

If your staff isn't impartial, you shouldn't say they are. An impartial staff is ideal, but if you lie about it when it already isn't, that makes it worse.

though, I'm not trying to claim you aren't what you say, just sayin', if you happen to be lyin', you shouldn't...

...Uh, sorry if I'm out of line...

Edited June 1, 2010 by 'Lexis

[ReformBlade]

If I'm reading stuff correctly (I've been known to screw up pretty badly), this 'Hika' person is complaining about being banned, while saying he was fishing for a reaction...?

... ... ... What the fuck? I'm sorry, but in my book, that's pretty damn stupid.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, please.

[Malexis]

If I'm reading stuff correctly (I've been known to screw up pretty badly), this 'Hika' person is complaining about being banned, while saying he was fishing for a reaction...?

... ... ... What the fuck? I'm sorry, but in my book, that's pretty damn stupid.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, please.

Not quite.

At least, his defenders are claiming differently.

Hika wasn't exactly "Fishing for a response" so much as "walking the line." According to them and him, he was only testing his limits. Not anywhere near the same thing and if they are truthful, he probably should be brought back.

EDIT:

I don't mean to imply that walking the line is mature or a good thing to do, but maybe not worthy of a perma-ban.

Edited June 1, 2010 by 'Lexis

[ReformBlade]

Not quite.

At least, his defenders are claiming differently.

Hika wasn't exactly "Fishing for a response" so much as "walking the line." According to them and him, he was only testing his limits. Not anywhere near the same thing and if they are truthful, he probably should be brought back.

EDIT:

I don't mean to imply that walking the line is mature or a good thing to do, but maybe not worthy of a perma-ban.

With all due respect, 'walking the line and perhaps slipping on 'accident' the wrong way' is in my definition of fishing for a reaction. My view is simple: Why be 'bold and daring' if you aren't trying to get a reaction from someone?

[Crysta]

YOU SEE CRYSTA. YOU CAN NOT WARN OR SUSPEND SOMEONE FOR BEING OFFENSIVE IF NO ONE FINDS IT OFFENSIVE. NOW, IF SOMEONE FINDS SOMETHING ELSE OFFENSIVE AND IT'S BASICALLY A PARALLEL OF THE SAME THING, I ASK YOU. WOULD YOU WARN BOTH PEOPLE OR WOULD YOU WARN NEITHER? THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION IS NEITHER, AND I SHOULDN'T EVEN NEED TO EXPLAIN WHY. And indeed. The single person was not enough to warn me based on it being offensive.

TYPING IN CAPS TOTALLY GETS MY POINT ACROSS WAY MORE EFFICIENTLY BECAUSE I THINK YOU TOTALLY CAN'T READ. Or do you think we may miss something?

Not that it's much of a point. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what's meant to be construed as offensive, and I'm not stupid enough to believe you were stupid enough to truly be oblivious to what you were doing. You're just upset that you didn't get away with it, plain and simple.

It just takes one person. Seriously. Just because white people here aren't hypersensitive douches, doesn't mean it's not obvious what you were doing, and doesn't mean we should start rationing punishment severity on the number of people actually offended by it. There's a difference between being unintentionally offensive (which shouldn't be punished) and being intentionally being a douche... does anyone want to seriously argue that you weren't clearly in the latter? There are times when someone can come across as crass or rude and it doesn't fall under trolling, but this case doesn't fall into that category, as much as you'd like it to.

A rule I didn't realize existed. Now, you may say I shouldn't have forgotten it existed (and indeed, I definitely only got warned/banned for the specific wording I chose to use), but as I already pointed out, IF THE STAFF HAD REALIZED IT EXISTED I WOULD HAVE BEEN AT LEAST WARNED AND SUSPENDED WITHIN A DAY, AT THE MOST. HOW DO YOU TAKE FORGETTING THE EXISTENCE OF A RULE OUT ON A MEMBER IF THE STAFF DIDN'T REALIZE IT EXISTED EITHER? Also, caps lock does not mean angry. Caps lock means emphasis.

How can someone NOT suspect that names like "White People Suck" and "Stupid Nigger" (correct me if that's not the exact name) just may violate ANY forum's rule set? I can't believe you would even want to name yourself something like that without the intention of being offensive.

I don't even care if the staff apparently failed at kicking your ass immediately lol (apparently it was under discussion or something -- I would have just warned/banned you outright myself). There's no way you're that stupid.

Just really, really butthurt.

[bunny: spider bitten]

With all due respect, 'walking the line and perhaps slipping on 'accident' the wrong way' is in my definition of fishing for a reaction. My view is simple: Why be 'bold and daring' if you aren't trying to get a reaction from someone?

It's the internet. Everyone is looking for a reaction. Sometimes more volatile than others. It's important you don't appeal to their need.

The irony is I brought up a certain name change like, months ago, and I was called soft, among other things, for bringing it up. People have to learn to stop caring eventually. Kind of weird that the mods choose to turn it off and on between being lazy, but hey what can you do.

The important thing is no one will really care in a month.

Also, it's important to ask Hika what White People Suck at. Many a white woman and even some white men suck penis. Basketball isn't exactly our sport. And are European people technically 'white', because that'd likely blacklist us from Soccer. Baseball is dominated by cheaply paid latinos. White people aren't particularly good at poverty or hunger. White People Suck at having super powers, too.

The people must know.

Edited June 1, 2010 by bunny: Now with Pancakes

[Esau of Isaac]

Maybe so but even if they totally overlook his say (which I wouldn't blame them at all if they did) this post is even more useless than that one...

It's funny, because you think it's not useless.

EDIT: I'm trying to maintain neutrality here but I have a simple point to make:

If your staff isn't impartial, you shouldn't say they are. An impartial staff is ideal, but if you lie about it when it already isn't, that makes it worse.

though, I'm not trying to claim you aren't what you say, just sayin', if you happen to be lyin', you shouldn't...

...Uh, sorry if I'm out of line...

So does "maintain neutrality" mean "pussyfoot around the concept of taking a side"?

[Defeatist Elitist]

TYPING IN CAPS TOTALLY GETS MY POINT ACROSS WAY MORE EFFICIENTLY BECAUSE I THINK YOU TOTALLY CAN'T READ. Or do you think we may miss something?

Not that it's much of a point. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what's meant to be construed as offensive, and I'm not stupid enough to believe you were stupid enough to truly be oblivious to what you were doing. You're just upset that you didn't get away with it, plain and simple.

It just takes one person. Seriously. Just because white people here aren't hypersensitive douches, doesn't mean it's not obvious what you were doing, and doesn't mean we should start rationing punishment severity on the number of people actually offended by it. There's a difference between being unintentionally offensive (which shouldn't be punished) and being intentionally being a douche... does anyone want to seriously argue that you weren't clearly in the latter? There are times when someone can come across as crass or rude and it doesn't fall under trolling, but this case doesn't fall into that category, as much as you'd like it to.

He wasn't intentionally being a douche or intentionally being offensive, his whole point was he though NO ONE would be offended, so he could try to jokingly prove another point.

How can someone NOT suspect that names like "White People Suck" and "Stupid Nigger" (correct me if that's not the exact name) just may violate ANY forum's rule set? I can't believe you would even want to name yourself something like that without the intention of being offensive.

I don't even care if the staff apparently failed at kicking your ass immediately lol (apparently it was under discussion or something -- I would have just warned/banned you outright myself). There's no way you're that stupid.

Just really, really butthurt.

Names like "White People Suck" shouldn't be offensive. "Stupid Nigger" is offensive, and I can actually understand what that one might be considered offensive, but considering there's no actual bile behind it...

Either way, yeah, he probably should have been warned/suspended for "Stupid Nigger" and he was. Hell, he could even have been suspended for "White People Suck", but he was BANNED, outright, without following precedent, with inconsistent warning, and with him getting portrayed as someone he was not.

I don't know, maybe you guys have never talked to Hika, but he's really not an asshole. At least not much of one. Most of the stuff he does is in FFtF, where very little should be taken seriously. He even says, many, many times that you shouldn't take things seriously, or that he probably doesn't mean any mean things he says. There is no excuse for being offended by Hika. Almost every post he makes outside of FFtF is on topic and contributing.

[Junkhead]

I don't know, maybe you guys have never talked to Hika, but he's really not an asshole. At least not much of one. Most of the stuff he does is in FFtF, where very little should be taken seriously. He even says, many, many times that you shouldn't take things seriously, or that he probably doesn't mean any mean things he says. There is no excuse for being offended by Hika. Almost every post he makes outside of FFtF is on topic and contributing.

As a person who barely even got to talk to Hika outside FftF, I can easily assure this. He is a different person outside SF, and he doesn't come out of FftF any longer, I don't see why Jyo was even worried this place will turn into a mess just because of the things he did, more like didn't, since his usual warnings were about his name changes.

Jyo takes these administrative decisions because he fears this place will become worse, Hika's influence was like that of a pebble in flowing river.

[Esau of Isaac]

I don't know, maybe you guys have never talked to Hika, but he's really not an asshole. At least not much of one. Most of the stuff he does is in FFtF, where very little should be taken seriously. He even says, many, many times that you shouldn't take things seriously, or that he probably doesn't mean any mean things he says. There is no excuse for being offended by Hika. Almost every post he makes outside of FFtF is on topic and contributing.

The funny thing is that a vast number of members take everything seriously, including in FFtF.

Kind of a downer.

[Defeatist Elitist]

The funny thing is that a vast number of members take everything seriously, including in FFtF.

Kind of a downer.

Indeed.

Also, we have a very loose definition of trolling here.

I was warned for posting a joke about Nishi in the picture thread, and it was for trolling. First of all, it was a joke, and pretty clearly a joke. Second of all, it couldn't POSSIBLY have been trolling, because the only person who would ever be offended by it is Nishi, and I know for a fact that Nishi has me on his ignore list because he used to say so every 5 minutes, and I can't send him PMs because he's blocked me. Therefore, I couldn't have been trying to provoke an angry reaction, because I knew that the only person who could respond angrily wouldn't see the message due to having me ignored.

[Junkhead]

I was warned for posting a joke about Nishi in the picture thread, and it was for trolling.

I read it before it was deleted. 80

[Malexis]

It's funny, because you think it's not useless.

So does "maintain neutrality" mean "pussyfoot around the concept of taking a side"?

Heh you're cute! ^_^

No, not really. I don't know Hikarusa in the least, so I can't defend him, nor do I know enough to hate him (unlike some of the morons here taking a side against him without knowing him! :P)

On the other hand, I don't know any of the current staff in the least, so I can't just take their side and trust their judgment because for all I know they could be pretentious dirtbags, or saints. :o

Edited June 2, 2010 by 'Lexis

[Esau of Isaac]

Heh you're cute! ^_^

Now when you say cute, are we talking like teddy bear cute or George Clooney cute

[Malexis]

Now when you say cute, are we talking like teddy bear cute or George Clooney cute

Hmm...I dunno. I'd be inclined to say both but the avatar makes me lean towards teddy bear. ^_^

[Crysta]

He wasn't intentionally being a douche or intentionally being offensive, his whole point was he though NO ONE would be offended, so he could try to jokingly prove another point.

"X sucks" is almost an invitation for someone to be offended. He thought wrong, apparently, but I'm not sure if I actually buy this explanation anyway.

Names like "White People Suck" shouldn't be offensive. "Stupid Nigger" is offensive, and I can actually understand what that one might be considered offensive, but considering there's no actual bile behind it...

Why should one be offensive but not the other? Is it just because "nigger" is a racial slur? Because otherwise it's basically the same idea.

Okay how 'bout "black people suck"? Think that'd go over well? Most people here aren't black, so they shouldn't be offended, but I figure the one black guy who MAY be offended would be listened to.

If you're going to be consistent, you have to give the offended white guy an ear, too.

I don't know, maybe you guys have never talked to Hika, but he's really not an asshole. At least not much of one.

Irrelevant. You should warn/ban people who violate the rule set they agreed to adhere by once they join this site, regardless of whether or not you actually like them or if they're a fun guy in any other situation. Popularity is not an excuse, or at least shouldn't be.

[Phoenix]

No, not really. I don't know Hikarusa in the least, so I can't defend him, nor do I know enough to hate him (unlike some of the morons here taking a side against him without knowing him! :P)

On the other hand, I don't know any of the current staff in the least, so I can't just take their side and trust their judgment because for all I know they could be pretentious dirtbags, or saints. :o

I usually miss tiny shots like that. Anyway ... when I said I didn't know Hika, I meant that I didn't speak with him on a regular basis. We've talked ... posted at each other if that's how you want to put it plenty of times. I know from personal experience that I've no reason to like the guy. If his posts aren't aimed at putting me down, they're aimed at putting someone else down. Like Revan's but Revan seems to take a break once in awhile to let the heat die down.

I've also gotten to know the staff a little bit, and I can hardly argue against their decision given all I've experienced from him.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I was warned for posting a joke about Nishi in the picture thread, and it was for trolling. First of all, it was a joke, and pretty clearly a joke. Second of all, it couldn't POSSIBLY have been trolling, because the only person who would ever be offended by it is Nishi, and I know for a fact that Nishi has me on his ignore list because he used to say so every 5 minutes, and I can't send him PMs because he's blocked me. Therefore, I couldn't have been trying to provoke an angry reaction, because I knew that the only person who could respond angrily wouldn't see the message due to having me ignored.

He's voiced his dislike of being referred to as a pedophile or anyone trying to screw an under-aged girl several times (probably more than you being on his ignore list). You called him a sex offender and you know that people can see ignored posts if they choose to do so (he did and reported it to me). It's hardly any different from someone insulting another and then saying "I was joking" as an excuse.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Defeatist Elitist]

"X sucks" is almost an invitation for someone to be offended. He thought wrong, apparently, but I'm not sure if I actually buy this explanation anyway.

But it really isn't. Not only is Hika white, but white people suck is in itself a fairly harmless thing to say. I don't think I've ever really seen anything even resembling that statement, except as a joke. I'm not saying people aren't racist towards white people, but I'm saying it's not hugely prevalent (mainly because white people are the majority), and it rarely comes in that form.

Why should one be offensive but not the other? Is it just because "nigger" is a racial slur? Because otherwise it's basically the same idea.

Okay how 'bout "black people suck"? Think that'd go over well? Most people here aren't black, so they shouldn't be offended, but I figure the one black guy who MAY be offended would be listened to.

If you're going to be consistent, you have to give the offended white guy an ear, too.

Nigger is a racial slur, yes, that is why it is offensive. I can understand people being offended by it due to the connotation involved.

The whole black people suck thing was part of what Hika was saying, and I'm not sure if that should be allowed. Honestly, I'm not black, I don't know if black people would be offended (black people and white people are not equally likely to be offended, as white people have likely suffered less discrimination/racism in the past than black people have).

Irrelevant. You should warn/ban people who violate the rule set they agreed to adhere by once they join this site, regardless of whether or not you actually like them or if they're a fun guy in any other situation. Popularity is not an excuse, or at least shouldn't be.

I'm saying that MOST OF THEIR JUSTIFICATION FOR BANNING HIM isn't "well he should be banned by the rules" but instead is "well, if you really dig in the rules, you can find some parts that kind of justify us banning him on pure fiat, and we think this is okay because he is an asshole", and THAT is why I'm trying to say he isn't an asshole. He should probably have been warned/suspended. I just don't think he should have been banned.

He's voiced his dislike of being referred to as a pedophile or anyone trying to screw an under-aged girl several times (probably more than you being on his ignore list). You called him a sex offender and you know that people can see ignored posts if they choose to do so (he did and reported it to me). It's hardly any different from someone insulting another and then saying "I was joking" as an excuse.

I guess that's kind of understandable, but first of all, he still shouldn't be reading my posts, and if he does then the contents are kind of his fault, and second, well, I dunno, but it's kind of hard to tell when Nishi is being serious. I've honestly gotten him incredibly pissed off in FFtF and thought he was joking the entire time.

[General Spoon]

Who's Nishi and why does he matter?

[AstraLunaSol]

Who's Nishi and why does he matter?

Nishi=gIO=Asmodeus

Edited June 2, 2010 by AstraLunaSol

[General Spoon]

Nishi=gIO=Asmodeus

Can't say I've ever seen the guy.

[AstraLunaSol]

Can't say I've ever seen the guy.

This guy.

[ReformBlade]

But it really isn't. Not only is Hika white, but white people suck is in itself a fairly harmless thing to say. I don't think I've ever really seen anything even resembling that statement, except as a joke. I'm not saying people aren't racist towards white people, but I'm saying it's not hugely prevalent (mainly because white people are the majority), and it rarely comes in that form.

That's some pretty awful reasoning you have there. 'White People Suck' should be treated the exact same as saying 'Black People Suck', you know why? Because both are racist, end of discussion. Why are you honestly saying it's OK simply because of a majority?