why is sothe forced for the endgame.

[ReformBlade]

But if you give her the bases and growths to allow her to reach, say, 26 str at a reasonable level, and maintain the A level support that Interceptor suggested (remember, it's the imaginary Heather we were talking about) then that's 47 mt with the baselard. 4HKOs on generals aren't spectacular, but that's still a 2 round like nearly everyone else. Unfortunately, she'd still be screwed over by the whole skill/2 thing for a mastery that will never kill on its own. I mean, I don't know what they were thinking with that one. If the only way to kill with Bane is to activate on the first swing and KO on the second, then with 38 being the highest their skill goes that's still a really low kill rate. Everyone else (that doubles) can shoot well over 50% quite easily. Bane would be much better (though still among the worst masteries) if it was skill%.

edit: oh, and of course knives are still great in part 1. sotheheather and Ilyana are the only two units in part 1 with forgeable 1-2 range.

On that note, I find it silly that Thieves/Rogues/Whispers have a worse Skill cap than Trueblades. IDK, seems silly.I think one who deals with espionage and sneakitude would be as skilled as someone who swung a sword so damn well all day.

[Narga_Rocks]

On that note, I find it silly that Thieves/Rogues/Whispers have a worse Skill cap than Trueblades. IDK, seems silly.I think one who deals with espionage and sneakitude would be as skilled as someone who swung a sword so damn well all day.

especially tier 2 caps. tier 3 is only 38 vs. 40, not so bad. tier 2 is 26 vs. 30, I think. Really hard to get good skill in tier 3 when you start at a 4 point deficit.

[ReformBlade]

especially tier 2 caps. tier 3 is only 38 vs. 40, not so bad. tier 2 is 26 vs. 30, I think. Really hard to get good skill in tier 3 when you start at a 4 point deficit.

Yeah, 26 vs 30 is pretty odd. However, this isn't the biggest fault IS made. *glares at Mages*

However, I've deviated enough. I admit, I'm shallow, but I think Heathersothe would be better than Sotheheather. The extra SPD is cool, but the DEF might be a small speedbump to overcome for her. But, with her increased MAG she might have fun with Imbue? IDK, I can't be bothered to drudge through numbers now.

[Anouleth]

Parts of that I'd like more. But Heather should be unleveled to 20/1 and sothe auto-leveled to 20/7. At which point Heather is still a touch faster than the original sothe but unfortunately she lost 1 or 2 str and around 1 def. They'd probably need to rework her growths and bases a bit, actually. But the 1-2 Heather would certainly be better than the 2-P sothe.

Oh, and +3 mt, +8 hit, +8 avo rather than +2 mt, +8 hit, +15 avo. Trading 1 mt for 7 avo. I'm not sure which one is better, though I suppose Heather probably has more than enough spd/lck advantage to make up for the lost 7 avo and Micaiah doesn't really need it anyway.

A 'unleveled' Heather has 30HP/8DEF at base (lol, worse than Nolan), and only 14STR. So she needs her Micaiah support to OHKO Cats with the Beast Killer, and they 3HKO her back, and she gets 2HKOed by Tigers.

Yeah, she'd definitely need some tweaking.

On that note, I find it silly that Thieves/Rogues/Whispers have a worse Skill cap than Trueblades. IDK, seems silly.I think one who deals with espionage and sneakitude would be as skilled as someone who swung a sword so damn well all day.

I think in general, Thieves shouldn't be good in combat anyway, any more than Bishops or Dancers, just because they're should be a utility unit first and a combat unit second. Which is why I was so happy with Knives.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Anouleth

[ReformBlade]

I think in general, Thieves shouldn't be good in combat anyway, any more than Bishops or Dancers, just because they're should be a utility unit first and a combat unit second. Which is why I was so happy with Knives.

I think thieves shouldn't be good in combat. Whispers/Assassins, however, should be a decent option, unlike what they've done.

[Renall]

On the other hand, Sothe can be pretty funny with a maxed-stat PoR transfer (you'd never get to 40 LCK in PoR of course, unless cheating) and Heather can't get any transfers at all.

Hilariously, however, the SPD problem continues to exist. It mostly just makes Sothe more durable, doesn't help his offense much at all.

[Junkhead]

Why the heck should transfers even matter? It barely does make him any better, he doesn't need them when he's already excellent in Part 1, it's after Part 1 he's suffering. It's a waste because in FE9 he's just sitting there gaining Exp when it can be used on others who will actually pay off there and not only three years later, if you want to raise his Def & Spd, you could easily just BEXP once he caps HP, Str & Skill.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Soul

[dondon151]

Transfer Sothe starts out with higher str, def, and res, which will allow you to BEXP spd on him almost immediately.

[Narga_Rocks]

Transfer Sothe starts out with higher str, def, and res, which will allow you to BEXP spd on him almost immediately.

Yeah, you could cap his def and res and he'll be two away from str. If you go crazy with it in fe9,

40 hp, 20 str, 20 skl, 20 spd, 25+ lck, 20 def, 15 res.

After about 3 levels, only skl, spd, mag, and lck aren't capped. That will allow easy bexping of skl, spd, and lck. Now, he'll still be 2HKOd by 41 mt tigers, which is sad, but he won't actually need a drop of exp in RD to be 3HKOd by 39 mt tigers.

As for fe9, what does it matter how bad he is in fe9? If you go EM, or even NM, you can get the highest priority transfers and Sothe outside a few units (like Ike, Jill, Nephenee) he's no worse an idea than anyone else. Also he is at risk of death at various points in part 1 RD without transfers. You do have to be careful in 1-5 and 1-6 with him. 40hp/20def/15res Sothe? He's not dying in part 1 unless you are terrible.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Why isn't there a transfer version of Sothe? At first I thought it was just because his stats would go down, but http://www.serenesforest.net/fe9/average/sothe2.html says otherwise.

[Anouleth]

I assume because it would be difficult to tier. Those transfer stats are only averages, and can vary.

[Florete]

I am not trolling. You are over-reacting.

For Endgame, both of them are terrible combatants, so I will take the one who has two chances at Bane -- even Sanaki can finish off at enemy at 1 HP. Sothe needs 18 levels before he can reasonably double the 4-E-1 Generals, Heather just need four or five (3 procs of SPD with a 70% growth, and a promotion). Heather also gives Fire, A-rank, which lots of good units want for Endgame, since it has the magic combination of +mt and +HIT.

It's not hard to get Heather these modest gains when she's cruising with the GMs, and can go to whatever Part 4 army that I want. I mean, she can ORKO with Beastfoe + Peshkatz in 4-5 if I really wanted her to have good offense for something, she only needs 18 STR for it, after all. She's not facing Paladins with 1-2 range and Canto, or a giant sandbox, unless I want her to.

You're suggesting things I was constantly denied before with Sothe, that being extra kills. At no point in the game is Heather actually capable of getting her own kills (remember my comparison with Mist?), so to get her some she's always being fed, and if you're allowed to do that with her for her entire existence, you can be damn sure I'll be getting Sothe some extra levels in part 4 (it really isn't hard, especially if it's easy with Heather).

Also, who really wants Fire for Endgame? I find Fire useful in part 3, when units can often have trouble getting to the 2HKO point. But then when everyone starts doubling and masteries come into the picture and my units have been BEXP'd for higher-than-average stats I find most atk boosts (and some other boosts, of course) to be superfluous, except possibly for DB units that Heather isn't supporting anyway. And then who wants to drag Heather's frail ass around anyway?

Honestly, I don't know how you find it so hard to get Sothe to ~30 Spd. I usually do it even when not using him seriously, or I at least get close. I'd prefer the unit that can do a bit more damage with every hit over only hoping for a lucky skill activation.

All she really needs is Atk and Def, and she's already beating Sothe in Avo and Res, she doubles much more reliably and can support Nephenee during Part 3 for an Atk bonus as well as Avo, Ike's authority stars help her, whereas Micaiah's lack of don't.

Authority stars don't mean anything in cross-team comparisons.

Yes, obviously if someone thinks that Heather is better than Sothe overall, they are misinformed or need their head examined. But Sothe's victory is environmental, not because he's inherently a better character.

Suppose that in PoR, Ike kicked the stowaway Sothe off the boat and left him in port; he DID have Volke, after all. Sothe grows up on the streets, accidentally kills Heather's sick mother in a botched burglary, and eventually befriends a couple of farmers in the sticks. Heather, untethered, leaves Crimea to find fame and fortune in Daein, hoping to take advantage of the chaos. She meets a distraught Micaiah, and is immediately attracted to her: they grow close, and form the Dawn Brigade with some other street urchins and Nolan.

Now 20/7 Heather is the Jeigan in Part 1, and 20/1 Sothe shows up in 2-1 with Nephenee and Brom. Heather is undeniably the better Rogue in this scenario. If you maintain the auto-A support to the finale, their ending has has a hot lesbian relationship suggested via innuendo.

I think that this version of the game would be superior.

That's hilarious. It's almost like you think this can't happen for any other character. What I mean specifically....

But Sothe's victory is environmental, not because he's inherently a better character.

Anyone's name can go in place of Sothe, compared to whatever character.

I agree, but i really find units like Fiona and Astrid to be more useful than Sothe, even in Endgame. oh well.

If trained, then for Endgame, of course. For the rest of the game? No way.

Her growths would stay the same. The reason why they mostly complain (HM) is because Sothe will have difficulty doubling and less Res, whereas, Heather won't.

Heather would still suck in Endgame. Don't believe me, take her there yourself. If people stopped complaining, it would be because she's female, not because she's any good.

Now, he'll still be 2HKOd by 41 mt tigers, which is sad, but he won't actually need a drop of exp in RD to be 3HKOd by 39 mt tigers.

Although you can get to 3HKO with a +Def support, if you're fine having Edward, Jill, or Aran support him.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire

[Renall]

Why isn't there a transfer version of Sothe? At first I thought it was just because his stats would go down, but http://www.serenesforest.net/fe9/average/sothe2.html says otherwise.

Because realistically training Sothe to his averages in FE9 makes him transfer worse into FE10, unless you keep Blossom on, which makes him a sponge for exp. It takes substantial abuse to transfer a superior Sothe over, and I would imagine the notion is that abuse in FE9 is not permissible when discussing transfers (hence why most debates focus only on transfers that seem plausible based on chance to cap in FE9).

However, Sothe has the most transfer potential. He could transfer over with 20 STR, DEF, and freaking 40 LCK. But there is effectively no realistic way to make that happen short of cheating, massive favoritism, or abuse. And no way to get 30+ LCK at all without cheating, I'd think.

Funny as hell to do it though.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Because realistically training Sothe to his averages in FE9 makes him transfer worse into FE10, unless you keep Blossom on, which makes him a sponge for exp. It takes substantial abuse to transfer a superior Sothe over, and I would imagine the notion is that abuse in FE9 is not permissible when discussing transfers (hence why most debates focus only on transfers that seem plausible based on chance to cap in FE9).

However, Sothe has the most transfer potential. He could transfer over with 20 STR, DEF, and freaking 40 LCK. But there is effectively no realistic way to make that happen short of cheating, massive favoritism, or abuse. And no way to get 30+ LCK at all without cheating, I'd think.

Funny as hell to do it though.

Not exactly. With Blossom, exp gain is reduced to 2/3, but since Sothe only has 19 levels to go, this converts to needing 28.5 levels of exp without Blossom, and since we assume transfers for anybody starting at level 11 or lower, exp argument is invalid against Sothe.

[Junkhead]

As for fe9, what does it matter how bad he is in fe9? If you go EM, or even NM, you can get the highest priority transfers and Sothe outside a few units (like Ike, Jill, Nephenee) he's no worse an idea than anyone else.

Because it's useless in FE9, he's there sitting and doing nothing, easily enough, Volke will be fielded when it comes to thieving, lets not forget that he actually promotes and is useful.

BEXP Sothe up to level 20 is pretty useless. Why? Well, for one thing, it isn't worth it when he's already good enough, he's still suffering the same durability problem against tigers, and those his only threat, everything else in Part 1 is laughable when he dodges like crazy. Besides, if he's not 1RKO'ing he's leaving left overs, something others might want to be fed.

So the only reason you might want transfers is for +2 Atk and to get his Spd & Def capping, he isn't suffering from durability in the least, and he's doubling just about everything, in the end, you can easily cap his Spd through BEXP without the requirement of transfers.

With the Exp he costs due to Blossom it's much preferable to transfer pre-promotes like Titania and/or Tanith who are actually pretty great. Sothe just isn't wanting transfers, he only caps Str, Skill & Spd.

Heather would still suck in Endgame. Don't believe me, take her there yourself. If people stopped complaining, it would be because she's female, not because she's any good.

I really don't disagree with that. I just don't use Sothe because I dislike him as a character, but he's a good unit. And it's the other way around with Heather, I am currently using her in Part 4, the only way to save her is if she had decent Str and Adept.

[Anouleth]

Because it's useless in FE9, he's there sitting and doing nothing, easily enough, Volke will be fielded when it comes to thieving, lets not forget that he actually promotes and is useful.

BEXP Sothe up to level 20 is pretty useless. Why? Well, for one thing, it isn't worth it when he's already good enough, he's still suffering the same durability problem against tigers, and those his only threat, everything else in Part 1 is laughable when he dodges like crazy. Besides, if he's not 1RKO'ing he's leaving left overs, something others might want to be fed.

So the only reason you might want transfers is for +2 Atk and to get his Spd & Def capping, he isn't suffering from durability in the least, and he's doubling just about everything, in the end, you can easily cap his Spd through BEXP without the requirement of transfers.

With the Exp he costs due to Blossom it's much preferable to transfer pre-promotes like Titania and/or Tanith who are actually pretty great. Sothe just isn't wanting transfers, he only caps Str, Skill & Spd.

I really don't disagree with that. I just don't use Sothe because I dislike him as a character, but he's a good unit. And it's the other way around with Heather, I am currently using her in Part 4, the only way to save her is if she had decent Str and Adept.

We don't refuse certain characters transfers on the list because they're bad in FE9 or because the transfer doesn't give us any benefit (which is why we have stuff like Transfer Shinon on the list, or Transfer Gatrie or Transfer Bastian or whatever). We ignore Sothe's transfers because on Fixed Mode, he doesn't get anything good. If we were to permit RNG abuse to cap everythin and get h4x transfers, this opens up a whole kettle of fish with everyone getting transfers on every stat - which IMO is a far less interesting and less relevant way to tier units.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Anouleth

[Interceptor]

You're suggesting things I was constantly denied before with Sothe, that being extra kills. At no point in the game is Heather actually capable of getting her own kills (remember my comparison with Mist?), so to get her some she's always being fed, and if you're allowed to do that with her for her entire existence, you can be damn sure I'll be getting Sothe some extra levels in part 4 (it really isn't hard, especially if it's easy with Heather).

Don't be ridiculous, there is absolutely no equivalence between these two scenarios. Heather only needs a handful of levels in an army that is eminently able to give them to her, and gets plenty of CEXP for kills, never mind that she gets CEXP just for stealing shit. Sothe, on the other hand, needs a truckload of levels in an army that sucks balls, gets shit EXP in his best chapters for performance, and has shit performance in his best chapters for EXP.

He's able to help kills things in Part 3 and 4, but once again, with feeling: EIGHTEEN LEVEL-UPS, simply so that he can DOUBLE GENERALS, never mind the spirits or the auras or the mailman or whatever the hell else you want him to attack that has 27+ AS.

Also, who really wants Fire for Endgame? [...] And then who wants to drag Heather's frail ass around anyway?

How about Nephenee? She starts the support in 3-2 with a C, and by A-rank Endgame she's getting exactly what she wants: +2 mt and +15 HIT. It's probably not going to make a difference with things like Impale, but it makes her more useful on Dheg, Sephiran, and the Auras. It's not like keeping Heather in range is any great obstacle, and in fact it's often easier than a unit like Mia would be, since I don't care about non-combatant Heather's positioning altogether much.

Honestly, I don't know how you find it so hard to get Sothe to ~30 Spd. I usually do it even when not using him seriously, or I at least get close. I'd prefer the unit that can do a bit more damage with every hit over only hoping for a lucky skill activation.

I find it to be a pain in the ass to do, to the point where it's not feasible to get him that high. Giving him kills is not happening overmuch in Part 3 unless I retard the growth of my other units, first of all, and the same goes for Part 4, except now I also have to go out of my way to baby him offensively. Both of his pre-Endgame Part 4 chapters are Routs, and there is a limit to how much potshotting and pre-chewing that I can do for him before he starts actually slowing down my badasses and making for a longer clear. Especially in the desert chapters, where everything is far-flung and he needs to pick up items for me, because Heather has better things to do than muck around in the sand so that he can fail to ORKO things even with max STR and a Baselard.

That's hilarious.

I hope you're not being sarcastic, otherwise my feelings will be hurt.

It's almost like you think this can't happen for any other character. What I mean specifically....

But Sothe's victory is environmental, not because he's inherently a better character.

Anyone's name can go in place of Sothe, compared to whatever character.

First of all, I didn't say that, so please accept the return of these words that you Falcon Punched into my mouth. Secondly, what you said is only true to a certain point. Some character match-ups require more "environmental" tweaking than others. Fiona is not going to be the best Silver Knight just by swapping her availability with Astrid's.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

We don't refuse certain characters transfers on the list because they're bad in FE9 or because the transfer doesn't give us any benefit (which is why we have stuff like Transfer Shinon on the list, or Transfer Gatrie or Transfer Bastian or whatever). We ignore Sothe's transfers because on Fixed Mode, he doesn't get anything good. If we were to permit RNG abuse to cap everythin and get h4x transfers, this opens up a whole kettle of fish with everyone getting transfers on every stat - which IMO is a far less interesting and less relevant way to tier units.

The problem in fixed vs random here is that Sothe's growths are randomly better, so much to the point that his average level 20 PoR stats are better than his base stats in RD.

[Narga_Rocks]

Why isn't there a transfer version of Sothe? At first I thought it was just because his stats would go down, but http://www.serenesforest.net/fe9/average/sothe2.html says otherwise.

sadly for sothe, we are sticking with fixed mode. I understand that blossom works a lot differently on fixed than on random, but I'd rather not deal with things like "60% chance to cap". Fixed mode can be just about guaranteed for every single stat we transfer on the tier list. And on fixed, sothe goes down or ties in everything but one stat. I forget which. I think maybe lck is where he got 1 or 2 extra.

Because realistically training Sothe to his averages in FE9 makes him transfer worse into FE10, unless you keep Blossom on, which makes him a sponge for exp. It takes substantial abuse to transfer a superior Sothe over, and I would imagine the notion is that abuse in FE9 is not permissible when discussing transfers (hence why most debates focus only on transfers that seem plausible based on chance to cap in FE9).

However, Sothe has the most transfer potential. He could transfer over with 20 STR, DEF, and freaking 40 LCK. But there is effectively no realistic way to make that happen short of cheating, massive favoritism, or abuse. And no way to get 30+ LCK at all without cheating, I'd think.

Funny as hell to do it though.

Actually, we don't care about abuse since on fixed mode it can't be done. All you can do is adjust what a unit attacks or what it wields or the rings it equips. We are fine with that. Mostly fine, anyway. If you need every single attack to be against a bandit in order to cap a stat, that's a problem.

Because it's useless in FE9, he's there sitting and doing nothing, easily enough, Volke will be fielded when it comes to thieving, lets not forget that he actually promotes and is useful.

And that matters why? We don't actually care about using an efficient team in fe9 when discussing transfers. The game that matters is fe10. If you do care, that's unfortunate for you since the rest of us don't. It's your problem, not ours.

BEXP Sothe up to level 20 is pretty useless. Why? Well, for one thing, it isn't worth it when he's already good enough, he's still suffering the same durability problem against tigers, and those his only threat, everything else in Part 1 is laughable when he dodges like crazy. Besides, if he's not 1RKO'ing he's leaving left overs, something others might want to be fed.

Do you even play HM? He barely dodges even with Micaiah support active (like, hit hovering around 40 or something) and gets 4HKOd as early as chapter 1-4, I think (tigers, the 26 mt ones even 3HKO him). Check the HM stats and compare to his base of 35 hp and 14 def. It only takes 23 mt to 4HKO him. 36 hp and 15 def isn't a lot better than his normal bases, but if we could go by his averages rather than his fixed mode stats then it would at least be worthy of being placed on the tier list. 2 more str, 5 more lck, 1 more hp, 1 more def, and maybe 1 more res. It's not a lot, but it's something. And if you are willing to accept abuse (if for him than you must for others like Ilyana and her lck) then you could get him 39 hp and 20 def without stat boosters and he would survive two hits from almost every tiger in 3-6.

So the only reason you might want transfers is for +2 Atk and to get his Spd & Def capping, he isn't suffering from durability in the least, and he's doubling just about everything, in the end, you can easily cap his Spd through BEXP without the requirement of transfers.

Um, what? Who cares about his tier 3 spd cap. You'll never get there on HM. Again, do you play HM even remotely efficiently? It's simple enough to cap in NM, but that doesn't actually mean much. The point of abusing to cap stuff faster is so that he can double more even in part 1 and also cats in part 2. It is possible for him to fail to double some of the bandits and myrms in 1-8 and 1-E. Then 24 spd is not happening for 3-6 without the bexp abusability from the transfers. Actually, maybe not even with it.

With the Exp he costs due to Blossom it's much preferable to transfer pre-promotes like Titania and/or Tanith who are actually pretty great. Sothe just isn't wanting transfers, he only caps Str, Skill & Spd.

Um, why should getting sothe to level 20 prevent getting Titania to level 20? How many units are you getting to 20/20 and which ones? Give me 10 units that you think are more worthy than sothe and I'll tell you why one of them is an inferior option.

[-Cynthia-]

Why are we ever bringing Heather to 4-E? She's terrible. Perhaps slightly less terrible than Sothe (though that requires CEXP, tough given her Mistlike offense), but Sothe doesn't take up a slot.

[Anouleth]

The idea is that given a choice between Heather and Sothe for Endgame, Heather would be better (which is debatable). I think.

[Fenrir]

Also, who really wants Fire for Endgame?

sothe has wind...affinity wise heather kills sothe. wind is worst aff in game fire is actually pretty good, better than light, wind, dark, water and thunder. thunder, water, and dark you could say is better for P3 and stuff but for endgame where your beating stage in 1-2 stages you want hit and atk. also heaven is good for endgame because you have no bio negative.

[Junkhead]

And that matters why? We don't actually care about using an efficient team in fe9 when discussing transfers. The game that matters is fe10. If you do care, that's unfortunate for you since the rest of us don't. It's your problem, not ours.

It doesn't need to be effecient, you just need to use the BEXP awarded to you well, there are many other characters wanting to get a BEXP to be benefitted better, Sothe's benefits only work in Part 1 and Part 3. Again, those transfers aren't even necesary when he isn't having trouble.

Transfering on NM isn't as easy as it sounds unless you boss abuse, you know, you have to limit your numbers to one digit if you want to do it right.

Do you even play HM? He barely dodges even with Micaiah support active (like, hit hovering around 40 or something) and gets 4HKOd as early as chapter 1-4, I think (tigers, the 26 mt ones even 3HKO him). Check the HM stats and compare to his base of 35 hp and 14 def. It only takes 23 mt to 4HKO him. 36 hp and 15 def isn't a lot better than his normal bases, but if we could go by his averages rather than his fixed mode stats then it would at least be worthy of being placed on the tier list. 2 more str, 5 more lck, 1 more hp, 1 more def, and maybe 1 more res. It's not a lot, but it's something. And if you are willing to accept abuse (if for him than you must for others like Ilyana and her lck) then you could get him 39 hp and 20 def without stat boosters and he would survive two hits from almost every tiger in 3-6.

Well, I started playing HM just today. You're just being paranoid over 40 Hit, as if that were very dangerous with his durability. Oh, and getting 3HKO'd is not even bad considering the type of enemies he's facing, it's not like he's going up against them alone and has no one to heal him. Like you said, someone would have to be stupid to let him die to that, it's not like you need uber durability to survive, especially when that durability is only worth for a short time due to the DB's avaibility.

Um, why should getting sothe to level 20 prevent getting Titania to level 20? How many units are you getting to 20/20 and which ones? Give me 10 units that you think are more worthy than sothe and I'll tell you why one of them is an inferior option.

When doing a transfer run, I play on EM, which allows me to transfer at least 15 characters, but that's just borderline, I try to gather as many CEXP as possible before a certain number of turns, so I could gain as much BEXP as possible. I don't think it's that easy on NM.

Okay. this isn't the list of my current transfer run, but rather those who are effecient:

- Ike

- Titania

- Oscar (He's acually good throughout Part 3)

- Boyd (Mostly for offensive issues, he's very likely to be used during PoR. A good candidate for PoR's first Speedwings, too.)

- Mia (Due to offensive issues)

- Marcia

- Kieran

- Nephenee

- Zihark (Due to offensive issues as well, he garantees a better Part 3 performance)

- Jill

- Tanith

[Narga_Rocks]

It doesn't need to be effecient, you just need to use the BEXP awarded to you well, there are many other characters wanting to get a BEXP to be benefitted better, Sothe's benefits only work in Part 1 and Part 3. Again, those transfers aren't even necesary when he isn't having trouble.

Transfering on NM isn't as easy as it sounds unless you boss abuse, you know, you have to limit your numbers to one digit if you want to do it right.

I got 8 on HM with no boss abuse. I can't imagine 10 being a problem in NM. Granted, Rhys and Elincia only got it because I spent extra time in endgame burning my staves (sleep, silence, fortify), but 6 is cake.

Well, I started playing HM just today. You're just being paranoid over 40 Hit, as if that were very dangerous with his durability. Oh, and getting 3HKO'd is not even bad considering the type of enemies he's facing, it's not like he's going up against them alone and has no one to heal him. Like you said, someone would have to be stupid to let him die to that, it's not like you need uber durability to survive, especially when that durability is only worth for a short time due to the DB's avaibility.

Except I don't want to have to heal him. I'd like him to be more like fe9 titania. You don't have to heal her at all early on. Volug and sothe need healing in part 1. I wish they didn't, but they do. And they need a fair amount of it, too. And since there are no physic staves in HM, that means either Laura needs to stay close or they need to burn player phases using healing items.

Anyway, 40 hit means you can't let him get wailed on by more units than his concrete durability allows. The risk is too high. And considering how it only takes 26 mt to 3HKO him, that's pretty easy for him to be at risk. And if Micaiah isn't there? Wow. 39 hp 20 def sothe is so much better than 35 hp 14 def sothe that it is humiliating. It depends on which transfer sothe you are allowing.

When doing a transfer run, I play on EM, which allows me to transfer at least 15 characters, but that's just borderline, I try to gather as many CEXP as possible before a certain number of turns, so I could gain as much BEXP as possible. I don't think it's that easy on NM.

EM is permitted for transferring.

Okay. this isn't the list of my current transfer run, but rather those who are effecient:

- Ike

- Titania

- Oscar (He's acually good throughout Part 3)

- Boyd (Mostly for offensive issues, he's very likely to be used during PoR. A good candidate for PoR's first Speedwings, too.)

- Mia (Due to offensive issues)

- Marcia

- Kieran

- Nephenee

- Zihark (Due to offensive issues as well, he garantees a better Part 3 performance)

- Jill

- Tanith

Kieran, Oscar, Boyd, Tanith, and Zihark are all inferior options. Which one do you want me to explain? Zihark ORKOs nearly everything in 1-6 and can use brave sword to ORKO in 1-7 to 1-E. In part 3 the transfer doesn't improve his durability and his offence is generally two rounding either way. Tanith is a joke and if I need to explain that one then I probably shouldn't even bother with you. Boyd is close to sothe in terms of importance, but since you've already got a bunch of great units for the GMs I'd say improving sothe's durability is more important. If we are talking abused sothe, anyway. If we are talking about random mode blossom average sothe, then 36 hp and 15 def may not be enough better than 35 hp and 14 def. Boyd could perhaps be a better choice. Kieran is worthless after 3-9. 22 spd doesn't matter much in 2-3 considering he can do his job fine without it. 22 spd isn't even doubling much in 3-9 so you are valuing Kieran doubling some generals in 3-9 over sothe being better for the entire game. Kieran is still a waste of space in 3-11 and beyond. Oscar still has a 24 spd cap and even with a str transfer I don't think he's going to be worthy of an early-crowning so he's stuck for a while. Granted 23 spd makes him help a bit more in the first few maps, but you have enough units anyway that the improvement from Oscar's transfer is less than the improvement from a sothe transfer.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

sadly for sothe, we are sticking with fixed mode. I understand that blossom works a lot differently on fixed than on random, but I'd rather not deal with things like "60% chance to cap". Fixed mode can be just about guaranteed for every single stat we transfer on the tier list. And on fixed, sothe goes down or ties in everything but one stat. I forget which. I think maybe lck is where he got 1 or 2 extra.

Is there any real advantage to going with fixed in this case beyond policy? Since Sothe isn't a case of chance to cap, his stats can be treated as any unit in any game besides PoR does, which is with averages.