New Hard mode efficient playthrough

[RNG Princess]

I'm past that chapter though, my Nephenee isn't being slowed down then she has 18 str. Mia's forge would have been a great one though

maybe I should re-do the chapter.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Narga_Rocks]

And who exactly makes these decisions of Ilyana not getting more credit? just a questoin...

Mostly people worried about the slippery slope, I guess. It's an item thing. You dump items on her, she brings them elsewhere and you take them off her. How is that different from a unit's starting inventory? Or different from base conversations? Fiona gives Micaiah another Thani. Pelleas gives Tarvos. He's not playable at the time, but he will be playable eventually.

In a way, I'd be okay about crediting Ilyana/Neph/Brom/Haar/Heather/Mordy/Lethe for their mule-ability, but I don't want to start giving Fiona credit for Thani or Aran for sleep staff. And anyone suggesting that one leads to another has a point because they are all things that require zero use of the unit. One is chatting, the other is moving items, but in the end they are things that don't involve the character's abilities on a map.

[nflchamp]

Mostly people worried about the slippery slope, I guess. It's an item thing. You dump items on her, she brings them elsewhere and you take them off her. How is that different from a unit's starting inventory? Or different from base conversations? Fiona gives Micaiah another Thani. Pelleas gives Tarvos. He's not playable at the time, but he will be playable eventually.

In a way, I'd be okay about crediting Ilyana/Neph/Brom/Haar/Heather/Mordy/Lethe for their mule-ability, but I don't want to start giving Fiona credit for Thani or Aran for sleep staff. And anyone suggesting that one leads to another has a point because they are all things that require zero use of the unit. One is chatting, the other is moving items, but in the end they are things that don't involve the character's abilities on a map.

And this conversation end here, as Merlinus is not happening again.

[RNG Princess]

I redid chapter 3-2 but now I bought all steel greatlances, poleaxes, and blades no iron whatsoever ;)

Chapter 3-2

Completed in 4 turns

6632 BEXP

7,206 Funds

Here's what I bought:

6 Steel Blades, Steel Knife, 6 Steel Greatlances, 6 Steel Poleaxes, 6 Mend staves, wyrmslayer, bow forge, wind forge. Sold several items as well including Silver Card, thank you for the tip Slize.

This time was pretty similar except I gave more fighting to Gatrie. Rhys almost died, a general attacked him leaving him at 1 hp I'm so glad the wyvern didn't reach him. Heather stole a steel sword and a reaper card, didn't find the coin this time. Ike took the boss kill again. Gatrie, Soren, Rhys, Rolf all went up the rest went down. Rhys got like 2 kills since Rolf does loldamage.

Haar took Nullify, Titania took savior, Shinnon took Disarm, Gatrie took celerity, Nephenee took adept, and Mia took the other adept, Brom took fortune for this one chapter.

Unit       Lvl HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS   Support

Ike      12.34 45 24  2 28 23 14 22  7
Titania  17.97 37 26 11 25 23 19 20 15
Soren     5.59 28  9 23 21 18 11  9 21
Mist      3.31 29 11 16 14 19 18  9 16
Rolf      2.47 33 17  3 20 19 13 13  9
Boyd      9.48 46 23  1 20 19 13 16  8
Oscar    13.20 39 21  7 23 21 18 17 13
Shinnon  14.21 44 21  7 29 25 16 21 15
Gatrie   11.70 45 25  5 18 21 15 25 11
Rhys      4.59 27  9 24 16 15 22  7 25
Mia       8.54 35 17  5 26 28 18 14  8
Ilyana    2.61 28 14 19 17 21  8  8 15  
Brom      3.05 37 19  5 17 16 13 21  9
Nephenee  5.62 34 17  6 24 24 13 18 15  C Heather
Heather   8.17 33 16  9 22 26 17 10 14  C Nephenee
Haar     12.80 46 24  2 25 21 14 25  7

Mostly people worried about the slippery slope, I guess. It's an item thing. You dump items on her, she brings them elsewhere and you take them off her. How is that different from a unit's starting inventory? Or different from base conversations? Fiona gives Micaiah another Thani. Pelleas gives Tarvos. He's not playable at the time, but he will be playable eventually.

In a way, I'd be okay about crediting Ilyana/Neph/Brom/Haar/Heather/Mordy/Lethe for their mule-ability, but I don't want to start giving Fiona credit for Thani or Aran for sleep staff. And anyone suggesting that one leads to another has a point because they are all things that require zero use of the unit. One is chatting, the other is moving items, but in the end they are things that don't involve the character's abilities on a map.

You have to deploy and keep Ilyana/Mordy/Lethe/Haar alive on certain maps to have them take all these items thats the difference between chatting with Fiona or Aran.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Anouleth]

Well, you might as well give Micaiah credit for recruiting Stefan or Marcia credit for recruiting Haar. In addition, I never have to deploy Ilyana to give her some of those items, since they can be given in the base. Does this mean Ilyana gets credit for moving the Speedwing but not the Gems or Fortune?

[RNG Princess]

Is shade a good idea on Heather?

Well, you might as well give Micaiah credit for recruiting Stefan or Marcia credit for recruiting Haar. In addition, I never have to deploy Ilyana to give her some of those items, since they can be given in the base. Does this mean Ilyana gets credit for moving the Speedwing but not the Gems or Fortune?

that seems fair but then again maybe you guys are right, I just feel Ilyana's item transfers impact to the benefit of my gameplay much more than anyone elses but maybe she should only get credit for the speedwing.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Interceptor]

Shade on Heather doesn't hurt, but you're still going to get stung occasionally since it doesn't prevent her from being attacked altogether, particularly since her damage output is balls.

[RNG Princess]

Shade on Heather doesn't hurt, but you're still going to get stung occasionally since it doesn't prevent her from being attacked altogether, particularly since her damage output is balls.

LOL It is, she has 16 str and only hurts halbs 1 damage.

How useful is shade anyway? I notice when someone is around the enemies always ignore Ilyana but then again that someone is Shinnon so maybe the shade skill users should be close to him.

I purposly put her in range of several enemies and they all ignored her for Shinnon.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Interceptor]

There's not a lot of solid data on how Shade works, but generally it seems like it reduces the chance for someone to get attacked when they normally would be. I tend to put it on Ike, no joke, since it acts as a counterweight to his big threat increase from being the commander. It's typically not very effective on someone who doesn't deal damage on counter (which is why it's really important to make sure that Heather doesn't deal goose eggs with her equipped weapon if you want to use Shade on her).

Ilyana makes good use of her innate Shade, to the extent that it's possible, since she can generally survive a direct hit if she'd not being doubled, and counters everything while hitting RES (which seems to make enemies avoid her a touch more often). But the reason that they probably ignored her for Shinon mostly has to do with the fact that he doesn't counter at 1-range with a bow, and his innate Provoke.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Interceptor

[RNG Princess]

There's not a lot of solid data on how Shade works, but generally it seems like it reduces the chance for someone to get attacked when they normally would be. I tend to put it on Ike, no joke, since it acts as a counterweight to his big threat increase from being the commander. It's typically not very effective on someone who doesn't deal damage on counter (which is why it's really important to make sure that Heather doesn't deal goose eggs with her equipped weapon if you want to use Shade on her).

Ilyana makes good use of her innate Shade, to the extent that it's possible, since she can generally survive a direct hit if she'd not being doubled, and counters everything while hitting RES (which seems to make enemies avoid her a touch more often). But the reason that they probably ignored her for Shinon mostly has to do with the fact that he doesn't counter at 1-range with a bow, and his innate Provoke.

Shinnon had crossbow equipped though. I think Ike is a perfect candidate thanks for the idea. I notice he has problems with mages, the ones in 3-2 got me a game over although they didn't kill him they did weaken him for a sword master that had survived player phase.

I'll experiment on Ilyana for 3-3 have her and another unit surrounded by a bunch of enemies and then I'll put her and Shinnon surrounded by a bunch of enemies and see what happens. I'm considering giving him a talisman.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Fenrir]

Shinnon had crossbow equipped though. I think Ike is a perfect candidate thanks for the idea. I notice he has problems with mages, the ones in 3-2 got me a game over although they didn't kill him they did weaken him for a sword master that had survived player phase.

I'll experiment on Ilyana for 3-3 have her and another unit surrounded by a bunch of enemies and then I'll put her and Shinnon surrounded by a bunch of enemies and see what happens. I'm considering giving him a talisman.

You were trying to solo the map with ike? otherwise he was down on damage, i won't believe ike died.

If your using ilyana just keep it on her, ike won't need it unless you don't want him getting as much exp.

[RNG Princess]

This is what happened

Ilyana's shade experiments:

First I put Ilyana(normal bio) and Titania(normal bio) out there, Titania has nothing. Most of the units Target Ilyana and kill her.

Second I put Shinnon(best bio) and Ilyana(bad) he has provoke 8 enemy units target him 2 mages, 2 sms, and 4 halbs none target her.

Third I have Titania(good) have provoke, 2 sms and 5 halbs target her none but a mage that wasn't in range for Titania targets Ilyana(normal).

Fourth Haar(normal) has provoke 4 halbs 2 sms, 2 mages target him none target Ilyana(normal)

Lastly Mia(best) has provoke 2 sms, 3 halbs, 1 mage target her and none target Ilyana(bad)

Ilyana unequipped targets half of the enemies

*Only Mia, Shinnon doubled all enemies. Titania doubled some halbs. Ilyana does not get doubled by anything.

Brom's shade experiments:

First Brom(normal) uses shade and Shinnon(best) has provoke 6 halbs, and 2 sms target shinnon

however 2 mages target Brom.

Second Brom(normal) and Haar provoke(normal), 5 halbs, 2 sms target Haar the 2 mages target Brom again.

Brom unequipped targets half of the enemies.

*Brom has 16 speed so he'd get doubled by everything except mages.

Soren's shade experiments:

Soren(normal) uses shade and Shinnon(bad) provoke 6 halbs target Shinnon, 1 mage targets shinnon but 1 sms targets Soren doubles him and kills him.

Soren unequipped targets more attention than Ilyana or Brom.

*Soren gets doubled by sms only.

I see that beside the skills speed, defense and resistance are critical as to whether the enemy ignores your shade unit or not. As long as the provoke character is there he or she should gather most of the attention.

You were trying to solo the map with ike? otherwise he was down on damage, i won't believe ike died.

If your using ilyana just keep it on her, ike won't need it unless you don't want him getting as much exp.

No he wasn't soloing he was just in a wall line of characters all shielding mist and brom from the myrms and mages but both mages targeted him and so did the myrm and he died.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[RNG Princess]

Chapter 3-3

Completed in 7 turns

9,682 BEXP

6,493 Funds

I bought flourish in order to disarm things, it was probably a waste anyway :o. Haar has the killer axe and a few ranged weapons like javelins and short axes, I'm so happy he capped speed he made things a lot easier by going all the way up and then left. Heather stole a coin and Ellight, which is good for gold ;), Titania had hammer she's so close to capping speed. I tried giving everyone at least decent CEXP except Heather and Oscar, although they did get some. Shinnon killed the boss with a critical, unlucky for me I wanted that kill for Gatrie but it saved me a turn. I had to restart a few times since Haar wasn't dogding enough times. Also I gave Haar the speedwing before starting the chapter.

Should I promote Haar already or wait?

Unit       Lvl HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS   Support

Ike      12.71 45 24  2 28 23 14 22  7
Titania  18.50 37 26 11 25 24 20 21 15
Mist      4.03 29 11 17 14 19 19 10 16
Boyd      9.97 46 23  1 20 19 13 16  8
Oscar    13.55 39 21  7 23 21 18 17 13
Shinnon  15.22 44 22  7 30 26 17 21 15
Gatrie   12.30 45 25  5 19 21 16 26 11
Mia       9.17 35 17  5 26 28 19 15  8
Nephenee  7.03 36 18  6 26 25 15 18 17  C Heather
Heather   8.39 33 16  9 22 26 17 10 14  C Nephenee
Haar     13.79 47 25  2 26 24 14 25  7

Also i'm on 3-4 and Kyza isn't good at all, he gets nearly killed and transformed he's dealing 14 damage.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Interceptor]

Don't promote Haar yet. His 24 AS is still good for chapter 3-4, and it's also acceptable for 3-5 if you keep him away from the Warriors. He's SPD-blessed, but once he hits tier 3 he's not going to have much time to work on his other stats, so do as much in tier 2 for his STR as you are able.

I would suggest that you don't crown Haar until he hits 29 STR, or you start Chapter 3-8, whichever comes first.

[Fenrir]

I would crown haar, but like int said, he's gonna suffer from poor strength, I would still consider it, it will help P3 but will hurt P4, whatever you think is better.

[RNG Princess]

I passed 3-4 hard chapter and promoted Haar before starting it, he made everything easier but he still suffered against mages and that sm with wyrmslayer. I think I saved it on another file though. If I redo it is it possible to 7 turn it without promoting Haar?

This sucks I did save it on that same file :/. Should I give him the energy drop? I don't think anyone else needs it anyway.

Also Soren or Ilyana?

He gets doubled a lot and she has weaker magic but I want one of them, or maybe both.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Anouleth]

Neither

Ilyana doesn't look too bad, really. Higher speed base and a slightly lower growth, but her level is lower too. 20AS is enough to catch a few Generals, I think, but I can't see her reaching 24AS any soon without some luck. You didn't get a transfer for Soren as well, did you?

[RNG Princess]

Neither

Ilyana doesn't look too bad, really. Higher speed base and a slightly lower growth, but her level is lower too. 20AS is enough to catch a few Generals, I think, but I can't see her reaching 24AS any soon without some luck. You didn't get a transfer for Soren as well, did you?

No I didn't use Soren on PoR, I'd probably pick him if he was speed transfered since she'd have 1 speed over him right now only.

[Fenrir]

Please don't use a mage on an efficient run-through, this is like using brom. bad move, bad speed, but mages have worse def, but, then again they don't have as bad terrain penalty. I hate to be so negative about someone else's PT, but on HM neither is gonna help you much. There is gonna be a better option, Haar won't need the energy drop, he might do bad late-game, but he's gonna tear up P3, even with a bit(but hardly even this)pre-mature crown.

If you really want a mage, Ilyana is a total joke, support soren with ike, it makes him decent, proper bexp and he caps every stat(yes my soren's generally cap Str) With Ike support he'll have a nice P4, even on HM doubling many things, but his endgame will suffer, but he is gonna be nice on the first stage and can staff after this, so he's not a total waste, just not ideal efficient guy. By all means though, if you want, use him it's your play through, this is why we watch these threads, to see what different people do.

[Narga_Rocks]

Ilyana is beating her soren by 3 speed right now and if she hasn't been building the soren x ike support yet there is no point. Ignoring the fact that soren x ike is a terrible support from pretty much every perspective on what makes a good support pairing.

[RNG Princess]

Please don't use a mage on an efficient run-through, this is like using brom. bad move, bad speed, but mages have worse def, but, then again they don't have as bad terrain penalty. I hate to be so negative about someone else's PT, but on HM neither is gonna help you much. There is gonna be a better option, Haar won't need the energy drop, he might do bad late-game, but he's gonna tear up P3, even with a bit(but hardly even this)pre-mature crown.

If you really want a mage, Ilyana is a total joke, support soren with ike, it makes him decent, proper bexp and he caps every stat(yes my soren's generally cap Str) With Ike support he'll have a nice P4, even on HM doubling many things, but his endgame will suffer, but he is gonna be nice on the first stage and can staff after this, so he's not a total waste, just not ideal efficient guy. By all means though, if you want, use him it's your play through, this is why we watch these threads, to see what different people do.

I do want a mage though just to play a lot differently from others but still being efficient when it comes to turn count and funds. Ilyana is my favorite and she's blessed but she won't be too useful on the long run I think as for Soren I've never used him before so I want to try him out since I've used every other tome user including Oliver. I will consider not using a mage though, i'm just not sure enough if any of the better mage choices right now would slow me too much.

I also want to use Astrid but I think that would slow me down like a lot.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Anouleth]

Ilyana is beating her soren by 3 speed right now and if she hasn't been building the soren x ike support yet there is no point. Ignoring the fact that soren x ike is a terrible support from pretty much every perspective on what makes a good support pairing.

I wouldn't say that. SorenxIke is fast, and Ike probably quite appreciates the +mt/+avo. I'd say it's problematic only because there are much better ways to use his earth affinity.

[Narga_Rocks]

I wouldn't say that. SorenxIke is fast, and Ike probably quite appreciates the +mt/+avo. I'd say it's problematic only because there are much better ways to use his earth affinity.

You'd still be starting one in, what, 3-4 or 3-5? Besides, it's not all that fast. Minimum two chapters per. They are only a 01 with no canto and no staves. It's almost as bad as a 02 considering to accomplish a support level in one chapter you'd need 9 adjacents. Most chapters don't even last 9 turns. she didn't even use soren in 3-3. Now, the chapter bonuses mean a single adjacent from 3-P to 3-2 would allow a C for 3-4 (acutally, I think she's on 3-5, but she didn't field soren for two chapters anyway, right?). But that's still 3-5 + 3-7 for a B in 3-8, and 3-8 + 3-10 for an A in 3-11. Ike can have an A long before that with whomever she chose earlier.

Also, while Ike doesn't get a ton out of the +8 hit from Mia/Boyd/Heather, he still gets more from that than the +7 avo he'd get from soren. Both give +mt.

[Anouleth]

You'd still be starting one in, what, 3-4 or 3-5? Besides, it's not all that fast. Minimum two chapters per. They are only a 01 with no canto and no staves. It's almost as bad as a 02 considering to accomplish a support level in one chapter you'd need 9 adjacents. Most chapters don't even last 9 turns. she didn't even use soren in 3-3. Now, the chapter bonuses mean a single adjacent from 3-P to 3-2 would allow a C for 3-4 (acutally, I think she's on 3-5, but she didn't field soren for two chapters anyway, right?). But that's still 3-5 + 3-7 for a B in 3-8, and 3-8 + 3-10 for an A in 3-11. Ike can have an A long before that with whomever she chose earlier.

Also, while Ike doesn't get a ton out of the +8 hit from Mia/Boyd/Heather, he still gets more from that than the +7 avo he'd get from soren. Both give +mt.

Why is Soren/Ike not getting going until 3-4 or 3-5? They only need 5 adjacents by 3-2 in order to get C there, which isn't hard. I know I couldn't get Ike/Mia up to a C by that point, but that's 8 adjacents. And 5 adjacents in 3-2 and 3-3 get them B, but that's iffy since the chapters are shorter.

I'm not sure why Soren/Ike is somehow slower than other supports, either. It's faster than everyone but Mist, Boyd, Titania and Oscar.

Heather is a joke. She joins later and wants to be off running errands and stealing stuff instead of fighting and needs more adjacents. 8 in two chatpers for a level instead of 5, and no option to early crown and heal. Ike's hit is fine, and I'd rather have +8 avoid than +8hit when he has 100 display or close to it on most enemies. He's durable, sure, but mages are always a concern.

(Now, obviously the horse has bolted and QE shouldn't try to train Soren or get him an Ike support, but Soren/Ike is not an awful idea in general, assuming you're already committing the mistake of using his slow ass.)

[Peachy]

I guess if you really want a mage, I would recommend Calill, though your Ilyana looks very nice. Calill does get Rexflame, which softens her doubling problems.